US Treasury>>>

ssd

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...loses, errr, US Taxpayers lose $40 Billion on their (forced) investment in General Motors.

:0074


Yet, the tax hike on 'wealthy' individuals will, based on CBO estimates, bring in an additional $50-68Billion in 2013.


Does this make sense?


The US does not have a revenue problem. It has a spending problem.

:facepalm:
 

Duff Miver

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...loses, errr, US Taxpayers lose $40 Billion on their (forced) investment in General Motors.

:0074


Yet, the tax hike on 'wealthy' individuals will, based on CBO estimates, bring in an additional $50-68Billion in 2013.


Does this make sense?


The US does not have a revenue problem. It has a spending problem.

:facepalm:



The government does not exist to generate profit. It is not a business enterprise. If the g'mint lost $40 billion to save GM, that is not a bad deal.

The government collects taxes and pends the money for the public good- sometimes wisely, sometimes not.

Stop judging the g.mint by bean-counter standards, Grover.
 

ssd

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$40Billion to SAVE GM is not a bad deal?

LMAO.

OK, Duff.

Sorry but GM is not SAVED by any stretch of the imagination. They will need another tax payer cash infusion or they will fail.

They are, or WERE a private enterprise.

Should be subject to basic free market principles.

Saved.

hahahaha


Governments are also "not in business" to steal from their citizens, their future citizens and run up $17 trillion in debt.

But hey, who cares. It is all just worthless paper.

:violin:
 

Duff Miver

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$40Billion to SAVE GM is not a bad deal?

LMAO.

OK, Duff.

Sorry but GM is not SAVED by any stretch of the imagination. They will need another tax payer cash infusion or they will fail.

They are, or WERE a private enterprise.

Should be subject to basic free market principles.

Saved.

hahahaha


Governments are also "not in business" to steal from their citizens, their future citizens and run up $17 trillion in debt.

But hey, who cares. It is all just worthless paper.

:violin:

Wrong again. Governments must, from time to time, incur debt. How else would we have fought WWII or survived the Great Depression?

"steal"? How so?

If you're going to count beans, at least use correct numbers. The bottom line cost to taxpayers for GM is $12B, not $40. Sheesh.
 

doubleornothing

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Wrong again. Governments must, from time to time, incur debt. How else would we have fought WWII or survived the Great Depression?

Don't forget the war on Iraq. The government had to act then to stop the proliferation of..... oh shit uhhh...... nothing!
I agree it does occasionally have to lie and make excuses for incurring debt.
 
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ssd

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$12B....$40B...who cares....it's all just paper and merely a rounding error for the USA.

There is no # currently available on what the GM Bailout will cost as it is not 'over'. US will unwind it's GM position of the next 12-15 months, hoping for at least a $27.50 price.

Good luck, Timmah.

US dealer inventories continue to RISE. Not a good sign. Fortunately for the bean counters at GM, they do not care because once a car leaves a factory lot and moves to a dealer lot, it is counted as a SALE.

And on the financial news networks, the pretty blondes are all too happy to report that GM or Ford or overall motor vehicle sales INCREASED for the month.

But, if one was to use their brain and look at the MoM (month over month) charts of DEALER INVENTORY, one would see that sales to the actual PUBLIC have been declining OR factory production has increased or both.

So, what does GM do? Either cuts production - shutting down factories or cuts profitability - offering zero % terms or hefty incentives or both.

Hmmmmm.....
In passenger cars, its Chevrolet Cruze inventory jumped to 64,390 vehicles or 96 days. One of the two plants that GM will idle this month produces the Cruze.

but......

Chrysler has offered up to $5,000 off its Ram pickups, which had 3.5 months of inventory to start the month. GM has recently offered between $2,900 and $3,500 in average incentives for its vehicles, according to Truecar.com.

GM is doing BOTH. Cutting production and profitability per unit sold.

Why? If things are soooo glorious at GM? Why?

Duff - please. It is not 1950 anymore. You can not take a snapshot of the economy in 1950 and paste it on 2012 and say here, do this.

You can not claim that just by reverting to the Clinton tax rates that the US deficit will be fixed.
Aside from the tax rates, Al Gore would have to reinvent the internet and the 5 million jobs the internet boom created and then destroyed as well as having Alan Greenspan embark on his first voyage of ZIRP.

US was able to manage it's deficit after WWII because of its manufacturing base and being a net creditor, not a debtor. The US effectively destroyed any mfg competition by destroying Japan and half of Europe. If anyone wanted ANYTHING built, it was going to be built in the good ole US of A.

The US also did not have a burgeoning entitlement crowd to handle in 1950.

It is a different time and it is unsustainable.
Tax code reform; entitlement reform; spending reform; defense spending reform; military aggression reform; foreign aid reform;


As Lumi would say:

Peas on Earth - have a good holiday.
 

Duff Miver

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Right behind you
$12B....$40B...who cares..

Duff - please. It is not 1950 anymore. You can not take a snapshot of the economy in 1950 and paste it on 2012 and say here, do this.

Damn, ssd. Facts get in your way yet again. The g'mint may lose $12B on GM, but,.....the g'mint made a profit on all the other bailouts, and saved some American jobs to boot. What's not to like?

I'll say it again: the g'mint does not exist to make profits. It exists to collect taxes, and to use that money to govern (we hope wisely), and to benefit citizens.
 
A

azbob

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The government incurred debt during the war to defend the country.

The government lost billions in the GM deal not for the "public good" as you put it but, rather for the good of the people who work at and own GM and to the deteriment of their competitors who did not take public money.

I don't have to explain to most people why the first example is different than the second.

Americans can now hope that they work in an industry or for a company that the government feels worthy of keeping in business. Meanwhile, GM is still run by the same management team that got them in trouble and trying to do business with the same union contracts that closed plants all over the US and eventually will have them begging for more of our tax dollars.

Maybe the fiscal cliff is better than continuing this path?
 

krc

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The government incurred debt during the war to defend the country.

The government lost billions in the GM deal not for the "public good" as you put it but, rather for the good of the people who work at and own GM and to the deteriment of their competitors who did not take public money.

I don't have to explain to most people why the first example is different than the second.

Americans can now hope that they work in an industry or for a company that the government feels worthy of keeping in business. Meanwhile, GM is still run by the same management team that got them in trouble and trying to do business with the same union contracts that closed plants all over the US and eventually will have them begging for more of our tax dollars.

Maybe the fiscal cliff is better than continuing this path?

I agree :0074

Very well written

azbob :0008
 
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