unreal....the NBA is so unwatchable......refs completely got involved with the crowds tonight and gave NJ and Det the game tonight
we should just let the refs pick the teams who will win
- Thread starter dr. freeze
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Freeze- We hear this after every major sporting event..NCAA tournament games, NBA playoffs, etc...it is getting old. Tell me how the refs cost Toronto and especially Indiana their respective games. Give me a f*cking break.
my ? is wtf was childs doing at the end of the game--was he trying to draw a foul? only caught the end but i still dont understand that last shot--
Wigs- Childs always loves to take the last shot or crucial shots when he has the chance. That was a terrible decision on his part, he had 10 seconds to play with...horrible shot.
Still baffled by how the refs factored into either game..especially since the light went off before Miller shot the ball to tie the game.
Still baffled by how the refs factored into either game..especially since the light went off before Miller shot the ball to tie the game.
Hoops,
You are absolutely right, the refs did screw that game. It should have never went to ot. I would have covered my Ind +6 and Ind +4 2nd half. instead I got screwed on both bets. Just watched the news here, I am from Indy, and even the local said that was a hell of shot reggie made but too late to be counted. Oh well I think I am done w/Basketball for the season anyways!
You are absolutely right, the refs did screw that game. It should have never went to ot. I would have covered my Ind +6 and Ind +4 2nd half. instead I got screwed on both bets. Just watched the news here, I am from Indy, and even the local said that was a hell of shot reggie made but too late to be counted. Oh well I think I am done w/Basketball for the season anyways!
okay Hoops, next time i will check with you to see whether i can have an opinion or not....
every call is so subjective every time down the court....what do you call, what do you not call, is it a foul or out of bounds, etc. etc......unwatchable in my opinion.....might as well just toss a coin and decide who wins.....
refs are impacting sports more and more.....umps create their own strike zones....refs dictate the style of play in college basketball....refs in NBA decide what to call and what not to call on a purely subjective level.....rulebook is tossed in the trash.....
i am fed up with it....sports are losing their legitimacy to the officiating.....thats my opinion and if you don't like it, just read it - and maybe give me a reason why my points are invalid instead of criticizing me for having an opinion......
every call is so subjective every time down the court....what do you call, what do you not call, is it a foul or out of bounds, etc. etc......unwatchable in my opinion.....might as well just toss a coin and decide who wins.....
refs are impacting sports more and more.....umps create their own strike zones....refs dictate the style of play in college basketball....refs in NBA decide what to call and what not to call on a purely subjective level.....rulebook is tossed in the trash.....
i am fed up with it....sports are losing their legitimacy to the officiating.....thats my opinion and if you don't like it, just read it - and maybe give me a reason why my points are invalid instead of criticizing me for having an opinion......
why I don't bet a lot of NBA...
why I don't bet a lot of NBA...
Freeze,
I'm in total agreement with you, especially in the NBA!! They should call this league the "Missed and Make-up Calls" league. Just like the other day in Orlando when Baron Davis hit the shot to win the game, but the ref who made the call said that he already knew he wasn't going to allow the shot even before the players came out of the time-out...wtf is that? Why do we have rules? A premeditated call with time on the clock? Why do we have clocks? I came to realize a long time ago, that the NBA is a joke...and if I bet a game here and there, I go into the game knowing what I'm dealing with and I take it for what it is and try to deal with the outcome on an even kiel. The NBA is more about entertainment, and less about sport. In order to present a good product with good entertainment value, the refs must bring the teams that are getting beat back into the game. Anybody who doesn't realize this is just fooling themselves. Anyway, good luck to all.
why I don't bet a lot of NBA...
Freeze,
I'm in total agreement with you, especially in the NBA!! They should call this league the "Missed and Make-up Calls" league. Just like the other day in Orlando when Baron Davis hit the shot to win the game, but the ref who made the call said that he already knew he wasn't going to allow the shot even before the players came out of the time-out...wtf is that? Why do we have rules? A premeditated call with time on the clock? Why do we have clocks? I came to realize a long time ago, that the NBA is a joke...and if I bet a game here and there, I go into the game knowing what I'm dealing with and I take it for what it is and try to deal with the outcome on an even kiel. The NBA is more about entertainment, and less about sport. In order to present a good product with good entertainment value, the refs must bring the teams that are getting beat back into the game. Anybody who doesn't realize this is just fooling themselves. Anyway, good luck to all.
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here is what will happen in a typical NBA game.....probably nearly 2/3 of them with the other third devoted to either one team clearly outplaying the other team and or one team not showing up.....
refs give calls to who is behind....game goes back and forth because of this....near the last 5 minutes of game, home team generally gets benefit of the doubt....this is especially the case if the home team is behind....if the home team is ahead by at least a couple possessions -- calls will tend to go in the opponent's direction.....
if game is close in the last few minutes -- refs will almost always call the game in the direction of whoever is behind -- and/or trying to get the game to OT....again, this is especially the case if it is the home team....and extremely likely to be the case if it is the home, favored team behind in the closing minutes....
i am spending way too much time watching sports this year and it is starting to look more and more indistinghishable from the WWF.....refs are like the refs in the WWF who always look away when the bad guys cheat -- kind of an imcompetent/stupid/almost intentionally pathetic type of official.....
i am thinking of shutting off the cable and maybe spending more time doing other things....
refs give calls to who is behind....game goes back and forth because of this....near the last 5 minutes of game, home team generally gets benefit of the doubt....this is especially the case if the home team is behind....if the home team is ahead by at least a couple possessions -- calls will tend to go in the opponent's direction.....
if game is close in the last few minutes -- refs will almost always call the game in the direction of whoever is behind -- and/or trying to get the game to OT....again, this is especially the case if it is the home team....and extremely likely to be the case if it is the home, favored team behind in the closing minutes....
i am spending way too much time watching sports this year and it is starting to look more and more indistinghishable from the WWF.....refs are like the refs in the WWF who always look away when the bad guys cheat -- kind of an imcompetent/stupid/almost intentionally pathetic type of official.....
i am thinking of shutting off the cable and maybe spending more time doing other things....
nothing wrong with having your opinion. however when asked to clarify, you made sweeping generalizations without much to substantiate your claims.
your views on subjective calls, refs letting the teams come back, home crowds, etc. may be correct. but IMO, the Tor/Det game was well played and very entertaining. if you had the over in that game, it wasn't botched by the refs, it was crummy ft's and stackhouse not showing up. if you had detroit, well they never threatened to run away in this game and they were lucky just to win SU. toronto had every chance to win this game, no referees forced childs' to throw up that dumb shot at the end.
didn't watch the Indy/NJ game but yes, the refs botched that shot by reggie to put it into OT. expecting humans to make calls on tenths of a second is alot to ask so I can understand that error. as long as they call the fouls the same way all the time.
your views on subjective calls, refs letting the teams come back, home crowds, etc. may be correct. but IMO, the Tor/Det game was well played and very entertaining. if you had the over in that game, it wasn't botched by the refs, it was crummy ft's and stackhouse not showing up. if you had detroit, well they never threatened to run away in this game and they were lucky just to win SU. toronto had every chance to win this game, no referees forced childs' to throw up that dumb shot at the end.
didn't watch the Indy/NJ game but yes, the refs botched that shot by reggie to put it into OT. expecting humans to make calls on tenths of a second is alot to ask so I can understand that error. as long as they call the fouls the same way all the time.
Freeze- Of course you can have your own opinion, but guess what, it has been this way forever. Officiating is a subjective position, always has been. There will always be bad calls, whether it be the 1960's or present day. But let me ask you a specific question...what calls cost Indiana and Toronto the games? I think if you are going to make statements like that, have some facts to back them up. I watched the Nets game a second time late last night on the local TV replay..one reason because it was one of the great NBA games in recent history, and two because I was specifically looking for any 'bad' calls late that I might have missed that somehow cost the Pacers the game.
So please, enlighten us with these 'bad calls' that the refs made. Those same calls that all the Pacer players were clamoring about after the game...oops, actually they didn't make one mention about the officiating...well, let's just pretend they did.
So please, enlighten us with these 'bad calls' that the refs made. Those same calls that all the Pacer players were clamoring about after the game...oops, actually they didn't make one mention about the officiating...well, let's just pretend they did.
what comes around goes around- officiating in my opinion makes any sporting event interesting whether i am playing watching or capping. strike zones, calling a tight game letting a team run, calling interference instant replay. i love it. i have over the years to look at the positives of officiating like making money off of a officials tendency. the refs last night are one of the best crews also alot of these refs are the elite of bb refing. gl on your frustrations
I agree with Thunder. That's the reason I track 65 bb umps and it's about that time of year that it starts paying off. I would love to know in advance who the refs for a NBA game are going to be so to work them into my cappin. It's all part of winning or losing. If anything, the refs gave Ind every chance to win their series outright. O'neal misses a foul shot to lose one game and a 3 that shouldn't have counted to give Ind life in another. Orl was also given every chance to win their series but couldn't do it. Char and NJ earned the right to advance the hard way. They were the better teams.
every time down the court refs could have called about 4 different things on both sides and how they call one thing and not another takes away the legitimacy of the game IMO.....i didn't play the game last night so am not frustrated because of a loss; nor could i care less who won the games last night -- hardly have a rooting interest in the NBA anymore...i just like to see good competition as anyone does... the one thing that makes a contest legitimate is a rulebook....the rulebook is thrown out the window in MLB and pro basketball....asking me to provide one piece of evidence is like asking for one single molecule of water in the ocean....
FREEZE SO IN FOOTBALL NCAA HOOPS THERE IS WHAT YOU CALL CONSISTENCY. I THINK WHAT HOOPS IS TRYING TO SAY IS OFFICIATING IS PART OF SPORTS. ALOT OF PEOPLE COMPLAIN ,BLAME WHATEVER YOU WANT TO CALL IT LOSSES AND WINS ON OFFICIATING. I USED TO DO THAT 15 YEARS AGO-NOTHING HAS CHANGED AND NOTHING EVER WILL. FREEZE YOU SEEM LIKE A VERY HARD WORKER -YOUR SCHOOLING, CAPPING AND INFO YOU PROVIDE-YOU JUST SEEM A LITTLE NAGATIVE AND CONFRONTATIONAL AT TIMES. I CAN TELL YOUR A INTENSE GUY BUT MAYBE LIGHTEN UP A LITTLE AND GUYS LIKE HOOPS AND OTHERS WILL REPLY TO YOUR CONCERNS A LITTLE DIFFERENTLY-
We all know the NBA refs suck...
We all know the NBA refs suck...
and Thunder hit it on the head!Consistency!!!The NBA refs have none.Michael Jordan gets refed to 1 set of rules the rookie doesn't recieve the same benefit of the doubt.A rule should be the same for everyone!Another thing,make up calls are bullshit & to me only acknowledge that you screwed up to start with.All I ever could ask for is to be consistent:nono:
We all know the NBA refs suck...
and Thunder hit it on the head!Consistency!!!The NBA refs have none.Michael Jordan gets refed to 1 set of rules the rookie doesn't recieve the same benefit of the doubt.A rule should be the same for everyone!Another thing,make up calls are bullshit & to me only acknowledge that you screwed up to start with.All I ever could ask for is to be consistent:nono:
yeah....i compare it to golf.....a clear set of rules and penalties, no matter who you are, if you don't abide by the rules.....Tiger gets a stroke and distance penalty when he goes out of bounds just like Joe Shmoe who is competing against him gets the same penalty.....no one is treated differently than any other by the rules....what is an infraction for one guy is an infraction fro the next guy and the same set of infractions are consistent throughout the competition.....that is the essence of any fair competition....handicapping aside, thats how i wish the NBA would be.....obviously the refs and umps make handicappig a little differently and are a tool, but i wish they were not so from a pure athetic standpoint......the NBA has turned from a level athletic playing field abiding by a rulebook into a WWF type of entertainment because of the officiating....and the mlb is close behind in my opinion......Barry Bonds strike zone is not the same as Jose Hernandez (after body sizes are accounted for) and Greg Maddux and Tom Glavine's zones are not the same as Jon Rauch's.....from a pure athletic standpoint, from which i receive greatest enjoyment, these sports are turining into a joke
Refs
Refs
Ive coached hoops for close to 25 years, well over 1000 games and I honestly believe refs have only cost my teams one game ... prob helped us more b/c we keep our mouths shut ...
Ive reffed 1000 games too ... I think I see all sides of it ...
Pro and college refs in general are superbly prepared and very into their job, they do all sorts of things to improve their "game", prob more than 99% of our society does in their given professions ...
as I often tell parents and kids I coach, "GOD could put a whistle around his neck and every time he blew it 50% of the fans would yell at him" ...
It's basically an impossible job, esp. Hoops
gl, pt1gard:shrug:
Refs
Ive coached hoops for close to 25 years, well over 1000 games and I honestly believe refs have only cost my teams one game ... prob helped us more b/c we keep our mouths shut ...
Ive reffed 1000 games too ... I think I see all sides of it ...
Pro and college refs in general are superbly prepared and very into their job, they do all sorts of things to improve their "game", prob more than 99% of our society does in their given professions ...
as I often tell parents and kids I coach, "GOD could put a whistle around his neck and every time he blew it 50% of the fans would yell at him" ...
It's basically an impossible job, esp. Hoops
gl, pt1gard:shrug:
pt1gard
pt1gard
you are a ref,so you above anyone else should know!Are you saying that the NBA refs aren't biased to some people over others?Not trying to start anything just want your honest opine
Jordan shoves Russell down & it is the greatest shot in history :shrug:Bottom line is the NBA refs don't always call the came down the middle :nono:
pt1gard
you are a ref,so you above anyone else should know!Are you saying that the NBA refs aren't biased to some people over others?Not trying to start anything just want your honest opine
Jordan shoves Russell down & it is the greatest shot in history :shrug:Bottom line is the NBA refs don't always call the came down the middle :nono:THUNDER said:
I think that's the key point right there. I don't see what the fuss is all of a sudden. Officiating is subjective. You say "that is the essence of any fair competition....handicapping aside, thats how i wish the NBA would be." In a perfect world this would be great, but nothing is different today than it ever has been. Michael Jorden got the benefit of the doubt, Wilt Chamberlain was allowed to do pretty much what he wanted. Even today, Shaq could be called for an offensive foul every time he touches the ball. As far as the strike zone in baseball goes, different strike zones for different players are part of the essence of the game itself. It's been this way since Abner Doubleday. A rookie who takes a pitch on the black is gonna get rung up. After you've earned your stripes, guys like Rod Carew and Tony Gwynn are gonna get the benefit of the doubt on close calls. But even so, baseball is the sport where officiating comes into play the least. Most umpires (while having different strike zones) are at least consistant. After that, you still have to hit the ball and catch the ball and I can't recall too many MLB games that were decided by officiating.
I think what Hoops is trying to say is: sure, some games are going to come down to human judgement. And human judgement is biased. Always has been..........always will be. It gets tired hearing the same schtick after every sporting event, especially when nobody (including yourself) should be surprised by it nor do anything about it.
Hand
Hand
some of my point was hidden in my comments, keeping your mouth shut helps at times and if you cry a lot you might get a call or two but in general I think it hurts you ...
but like i said, my biggest point is reffing hoops is impossible, I choose not to call much, i let the game decide itself more or less, when someone gains obvious advantage I verbalize it to players when possible then if it happens again, I blow my whistle ...
as a coach, I dont say too much but im not mute either ... i never let my players say squat, they will be pulled when they do ... refs appreciate it ... now of course not a lot of the above applies to NBA and MJ getting calls or Ted Williams having a dinky strike zone; like the prvious poster said, often respect supercedes calls ...
Blaming refs for losing gets old as a coach or gambler ...
how many times have you heard an NBA coach quoted, "WE was gifted!!" as opposed to robbed?
they never do ... its human nature to moan about what we perceive we deserve instead of bucking up and making certain we'll do all we can to prepare to succeed next time
sorry for sermonizing, it's late and Im rambling, hehe
take care, pt1gard
Hand
some of my point was hidden in my comments, keeping your mouth shut helps at times and if you cry a lot you might get a call or two but in general I think it hurts you ...
but like i said, my biggest point is reffing hoops is impossible, I choose not to call much, i let the game decide itself more or less, when someone gains obvious advantage I verbalize it to players when possible then if it happens again, I blow my whistle ...
as a coach, I dont say too much but im not mute either ... i never let my players say squat, they will be pulled when they do ... refs appreciate it ... now of course not a lot of the above applies to NBA and MJ getting calls or Ted Williams having a dinky strike zone; like the prvious poster said, often respect supercedes calls ...
Blaming refs for losing gets old as a coach or gambler ...
how many times have you heard an NBA coach quoted, "WE was gifted!!" as opposed to robbed?
they never do ... its human nature to moan about what we perceive we deserve instead of bucking up and making certain we'll do all we can to prepare to succeed next time
sorry for sermonizing, it's late and Im rambling, hehe
take care, pt1gard
