WOW.....a frank admission from William F. Buckley

gecko

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This surely is a sign of the disillusionment and frustration from the conservative establishment that will come to bear in the Bush--lame duck--administration's last couple of years. I mean, this is not just any conservative columnist or think tank member, or CHARLESMANSON, for that matter.

This is WILLIAM F.(reakin') BUCKLEY! Pretty strong stuff he writes.......


http://www.nationalreview.com/buckley/buckley200602241451.asp




February 24, 2006, 2:51 p.m.



IT DIDN'T WORK



"I can tell you the main reason behind all our woes ? it is America." The New York Times reporter is quoting the complaint of a clothing merchant in a Sunni stronghold in Iraq. "Everything that is going on between Sunni and Shiites, the troublemaker in the middle is America."


One can't doubt that the American objective in Iraq has failed. The same edition of the paper quotes a fellow of the American Enterprise Institute. Mr. Reuel Marc Gerecht backed the American intervention. He now speaks of the bombing of the especially sacred Shiite mosque in Samara and what that has precipitated in the way of revenge. He concludes that ?The bombing has completely demolished? what was being attempted ? to bring Sunnis into the defense and interior ministries.


Our mission has failed because Iraqi animosities have proved uncontainable by an invading army of 130,000 Americans. The great human reserves that call for civil life haven't proved strong enough. No doubt they are latently there, but they have not been able to contend against the ice men who move about in the shadows with bombs and grenades and pistols.


The Iraqis we hear about are first indignant, and then infuriated, that Americans aren't on the scene to protect them and to punish the aggressors. And so they join the clothing merchant who says that everything is the fault of the Americans.


The Iranian president, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, elucidates on the complaint against Americans. It is not only that the invaders are American, it is that they are "Zionists." It would not be surprising to learn from an anonymously cited American soldier that he can understand why Saddam Hussein was needed to keep the Sunnis and the Shiites from each others' throats.


A problem for American policymakers ? for President Bush, ultimately ? is to cope with the postulates and decide how to proceed.


One of these postulates, from the beginning, was that the Iraqi people, whatever their tribal differences, would suspend internal divisions in order to get on with life in a political structure that guaranteed them religious freedom.


The accompanying postulate was that the invading American army would succeed in training Iraqi soldiers and policymkers to cope with insurgents bent on violence.


This last did not happen. And the administration has, now, to cope with failure. It can defend itself historically, standing by the inherent reasonableness of the postulates. After all, they govern our policies in Latin America, in Africa, and in much of Asia. The failure in Iraq does not force us to generalize that violence and antidemocratic movements always prevail. It does call on us to adjust to the question, What do we do when we see that the postulates do not prevail ? in the absence of interventionist measures (we used these against Hirohito and Hitler) which we simply are not prepared to take? It is healthier for the disillusioned American to concede that in one theater in the Mideast, the postulates didn't work. The alternative would be to abandon the postulates. To do that would be to register a kind of philosophical despair. The killer insurgents are not entitled to blow up the shrine of American idealism.


Mr. Bush has a very difficult internal problem here because to make the kind of concession that is strategically appropriate requires a mitigation of policies he has several times affirmed in high-flown pronouncements. His challenge is to persuade himself that he can submit to a historical reality without forswearing basic commitments in foreign policy.


He will certainly face the current development as military leaders are expected to do: They are called upon to acknowledge a tactical setback, but to insist on the survival of strategic policies.


Yes, but within their own counsels, different plans have to be made. And the kernel here is the acknowledgment of defeat.




(c) 2006 Universal Press Syndicate
 

djv

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The Reb's may pull his party card for that. Or at least make him serve a 6 month probation.
 

gardenweasel

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hey gecko.....where`s the party?....

pretty excited,huh....

regardless of your feelings on iraq,our servicemen and women are in the midst of that violence....
.
we do actually want the nation of iraq to succeed...

don`t we?. ...

we are americans before we are republicans and democrats....

aren`t we?...

isn`t our national security ibest served by stability rather than upheaval and violence?...

the war is a reality...

i admit,when these lunatics actually believe that americans blew up the golden dome of the askariya shrine,it makes you wonder...it goes against all logic.......

can the united states — or anyone — in the middle of a war against islamic fascism, rebuild the most important country in the heart of the middle east, after 30 years of utter oppression, three wars, and an orwellian, totalitarian dictator's warping of the minds of the populace?.....

can anyone chart a course between a zarqawi, a sadr, and the sunni baathists much less the legions of iranian agents, saudi millionaires, and syrian provocateurs who each day live to destroy what’s going on in iraq?...

maybe not...

but,i don`t believe it`s over yet...

and i`m certainly not celebrating our setback...

i hope you aren`t either...
 

gecko

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gardenweasel said:
hey gecko.....where`s the party?....


You don't see me gloating or name calling or putting smilies into my post. Just pointing out a column from one of the foremost conservative thinkers of our time and the editor of the Nat'l Review. You at least have to admit that.

In fact, you didn't even reference Buckley in your reply. Care to share your thoughts?



we do actually want the nation of iraq to succeed...

don`t we?. ...


Yes, absolutely, but we CANNOT ignore the possibility of a civil war (amongst religions/tribes that go back centuries) or interference from neighbors with bad intent. Seems to me that it is the Bush admin. that ignored the warnings or failed to foresee such scenarios, looking thru rose-colored glasses.




can the united states ? or anyone ? in the middle of a war against islamic fascism, rebuild the most important country in the heart of the middle east, after 30 years of utter oppression, three wars, and an orwellian, totalitarian dictator's warping of the minds of the populace?


Iraq is not the "most important country" in that region. For oil, perhaps it is one of the most important. Iraq is supposed to serve as a model of democracy in that region, but for now Iran, Saudi Arabia and Syria are arguably more important for a variety of reasons.



i don`t believe it`s over yet...
and i`m certainly not celebrating our setback...
i hope you aren`t either...


My post is not a doomsday scenario. However, Buckley at least acknowledges some failures and pitfalls of our mission. It's not over yet, but can't you at least admit that it hasn't gone as hoped? It will take many more years ahead to stabilize Iraq.



P.S. I'm a card-carrying independent who's conservative on fiscal issues and moderate on social.
 
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DOGS THAT BARK

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GW It gets to me at times but you have to take it in stride.
Look at the bright side --it could be worse-- imagine if you would-- what it be like in football forum with half participants on 8 year losing streak :)
 

smurphy

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Please keep in mind, it's not all partisan bashing. I like the Republicans overall, agree with many and would support many over Democrats. I think Bush has forced the hands of many decent moderate Republicans. I would love to see them move further from the destructive dividing Bush camp and towards moderate Democrats. This would be a good thing for the country.

What, you don't want what's good for the country? ....Sorry, started to play a familiar card of "your side" there.
 

gardenweasel

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"the bunker"
maybe i misinterpreted gecko`s intentions....

but,make no mistake...iraq...in the present...is undoubtedly the most important nation in the middle east....by light years..

you don`t realize that?....that`s why iraq`s,syria`s and al qaeda`s fingerprints are all over iraq....

if..by some freak happenstance some sort of democracy succeeds in iraq....how do you think the youth in iran will react?... the youth that are already straining to get out from under the rule of the mullahs...it`s no secret that the youth love all things western...that`s one of the reasons ahmadinnerjacket is spoiling for a fight...he hopes that nationalism will trump the urge to westernize...



why is al qaeda so intent on quashing the new government...so intent that they are encouraging civil war amongst their own people....killing scores of their own people... blowing up holy sites...

because they can`t let a democracy succeed right in their own backyard....

look at the west...their economies...their progress...

then look at the middle east...

look at israel...then look at palestine...

it`s not hard to understand why it`s so important that a democracy not succed right next door.....

an arab democracy...
 
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