Great job George!

ocelot

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Copied from Yahoo Finance page.

"Orders to U.S. factories for big-ticket manufactured goods plunged 2.8 percent in March, the biggest setback in 2 1/2 years and the third straight decline, the Commerce Department said Wednesday. "
 

Nosigar

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Oh my God! The sky is falling :scared

Of course, most these items are being made in Asia now. Cheap and bad.
 

dawgball

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How about blaming all of us as Americans for not competing in the global marketplace better? This administration, business owners, Union leaders, individual workers, tax payers who do not hold their legislatures accountable all share in the blame for this problem. And it's one that is not going away.

Certainly the administration should adopt policies that help businesses produce products without restrictions, but when it comes down to it if Asians are more willing to produce the same product for cheaper then we will lose that battle.

But your "always point the finger at Bush" mindset is pointless and helps the situation zero.
 

StevieD

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Face it the tax cuts didn't work. The crush on the middle class is stifling the whole economy. Bush should be blamed. It is his policy and tax cuts and deficits that killed the economy.
 

DOGS THAT BARK

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OK WHO here regardless of politics, and we have several business owners, has suffered in this "stifling economy".

Is anyone not better off now than 4 years ago--better off 10 years ago then 15 years ago.

If not be specific and tell us why.

--and Stevie be specific and enlighten us why you think this economy is stifled?

Corporate earnings?
Employment?
Housing sales?
Inflation?
Interest rates?
Productivity?

Which is it??????? or is just more "Liberal Logic" ????????????

P.S. put down that New York Times and take a look at Reuters financial head lines this morning--;)

Reuters: Business

Procter & Gamble Profit Jumps - 19 minutes ago
Comcast Profit Up 380 Percent - 33 minutes ago
Dow Chemical Profit Nearly Triples - 37 minutes ago
 
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ocelot

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DTB:

What cave have you been living in? Such blatant self-delusion does not even warrant a response.

You sound like the 1st Read My Lips George - in a state of denial.
 

ocelot

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Okay, so this is from the AP, NOT the NY Times:


AP
Economy Grows at Slowest Pace in Two Years
Thursday April 28, 9:04 am ET
By Jeannine Aversa, AP Economics Writer
Economy Grows at 3.1 Percent Annual Rate in 1Q, Slowest Pace of Expansion in Two Years


WASHINGTON (AP) -- Buffeted by rising energy prices and weakened consumer and business spending, the economy grew at an annual rate of just 3.1 percent in the first quarter. It was the slowest pace of expansion in two years, offering fresh evidence that the economy has hit another "soft patch."

The latest reading on gross domestic product, released by the Commerce Department on Thursday, showed that consumers and businesses turned cautious in their spending in the January-to-March quarter, a key factor in the slower economic growth. High energy prices and rising borrowing costs are causing Americans to tighten their belts a bit.

The first-quarter's GDP figure, down from a 3.8 percent pace logged in the final quarter of 2004, represents the economy's most sluggish showing since the first quarter of 2003, when economic activity expanded at an even more mediocre 1.9 percent rate.

GDP, the broadest barometer of the economy's health, measures the value of all goods and services produced within the United States.

The newest snapshot of the economy disappointed economists. Before the report's release, they were forecasting a 3.5 percent growth rate for the first quarter.

That estimate marked a downgrade from just a few weeks ago when economists were predicting that business growth would clock in at a pace of 4 percent or better in the first quarter. But they scrambled to lower those forecasts in the wake of a spate of disappointing economic reports in recent weeks.

Those disappointing reports -- including retail sales, industrial production and big-ticket orders to factories -- along with Thursday's GDP figure, add to evidence that the economy hit a "soft patch." That's the term Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan used last spring when economic growth slowed abruptly.

Economists also are lowering their estimates for growth in the current April-to-June quarter -- to around a 3 percent rate -- or possibly less.

For now, economists believe any soft patch will be temporary and don't believe that it would be a harbinger of recession. Although a 3.1 percent growth rate is disappointing to economists , it is a decent pace of expansion, nevertheless.

"That's about average growth. You can't say average growth is bad. Of course, every parent wants their children to be better than average," said Ken Mayland, president of ClearView Economics. "It doesn't mean that the game is lost and you are inevitably heading towards a major slowdown or recession."

President Bush wants to see the economy on solid ground as he tries to sell Americans his vision of overhauling the Depression-era Social Security program. He is promoting the idea of letting workers set up individual investment accounts in stocks and bonds, using a big chunk of payroll taxes to do that.

The signs of slowing economic growth are especially disconcerting because they raise new questions about the state of the labor market, whose recovery from the 2001 recession has been uneven. Payrolls expanded by just 110,000 in March, the fewest new jobs in eight months. The employment report for April will be released by the government next week.

An inflation gauge tied to the GDP report showed and closely monitored by the Federal Reserve showed prices -- excluding food and energy -- rising at a rate of 2.2 percent in the first quarter of 2005. That was up considerably from a 1.7 percent rate in the fourth quarter and marked the highest reading since the final quarter of 2001.

To combat inflation, Federal Reserve policy-makers have boosted interest rates seven times since last June. An additional increase is expected at the Fed's next meeting on Tuesday.

Economists blame rising prices for energy and other goods for dampening consumer and business spending.

Oil prices, which surged to an all-time high of $57.27 a barrel at the beginning of April, have retreated somewhat since then. Even so, economists are predicting lofty prices for gasoline and other energy products through the summer.

Consumers increased their spending at a 3.5 percent rate in the first quarter. That was down from a 4.2 percent pace in the prior quarter and was the slowest pace since the second quarter of 2004.

Consumer spending on big-ticket goods, such as cars, was flat in the first quarter compared with a 3.9 percent growth rate in the fourth quarter.

Businesses also reined in spending. Spending on equipment and software rose at a rate of 6.9 percent in the first quarter, a big deceleration compared with the hot 18.4 percent growth rate in the fourth quarter. The first quarter's spending figure was the lowest since first quarter of 2003.

Investment by businesses in new plants, office buildings and other structures dropped in the first quarter at an annual rate of 2.6 percent. That contrasted with a 2.1 percent rate of growth in the fourth quarter. The last time spending on structures fell was in the third quarter of last year.

The nation's bloated trade deficit also weighed on economic growth in the first quarter. The deficit shaved a sizable 1.49 percent points off of GDP. That marked the biggest reduction since the last quarter of 2002
 

dawgball

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ocelot -- I wouldlike to see what some of the people on this board consider "crush" on the middle class is. I assume that most of us that participate on this board are in the middle class.

How many computers do you have at home with internet access?
How many TVs do you have at home?
How many cars does your family "own"?
Do you "own" your home?
Do you EVER go out to eat?
Do you have a gas grill?
Does that gas grill ever have steak on it?
Do you EVER attend sporting events?
Did you attend the MJs SB party?
Do you gamble on sports?
Do you play poker online or otherwise for money?

Most of these questions can not be answered in the affirmitive by someone who is being "crush"ed by the economy.

I'm not trying to be a smartass here (it's hard for me, though), but I think what people get tired of hearing is someone bitching about the economy while they have LUXURIES at hand.

Just an opinion, though.
 

DOGS THAT BARK

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"What cave have you been living in? Such blatant self-delusion does not even warrant a response"

Question oh "un" delusional one.

When the when we have experience the highest growth in 20 years do you expect it to not taper of.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

"U.S. economic growth sizzles

Third-quarter growth of 7.2 percent is strongest in nearly two decades; will job growth follow?
October 30, 2003: 5:47 PM EST
By Mark Gongloff, CNN/Money Staff Writer
NEW YORK (CNN/Money) - U.S. economic growth surged in the third quarter at the fastest pace in nearly two decades, the government said Thursday, but even President Bush admitted that was unlikely to be sustained."
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

If the yankees goe 20-5 in 1st month for 4 years then from to 18-7 by your liberal standards it would be a catrastrophe.

Per your article--
"WASHINGTON (AP) -- Buffeted by rising energy prices and weakened consumer and business spending, the economy grew at an annual rate of just 3.1 percent in the first quarter. It was the slowest pace of expansion in two years, offering fresh evidence that the economy has hit another "soft patch.""
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
an annual rate of "just" 3.1

Wow you'd think that was bad from AP article--then riddle me this if you think that is horendous what would you say if that was MORE than DOUBLE the rate of return in Slicks 2nd and 3rd quarter of 1995---COMBINED???

and I'm delusional :)
 

kosar

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DOGS THAT BARK said:
When the when we have experience the highest growth in 20 years do you expect it to not taper of.

I agree with that. The strange thing is how you don't apply the same train of thought when you endlessly talk about how the stock market 'tapered off' at the end of Clintons terms. And even at it's lowest, when, as you put it, 'the bubble burst', the DOW still tripled in Clintons 8 years. Please explain what the difference is, other than the fact that one Pres is a Neo-con and the other a moderate Democrat that you hate beyond words.
 

ocelot

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See? I knew DTB's obsession will the Great President Bill would surface.

This economy is severely strained and has corrosive underlying weaknesses that are not and have not been addressed by either party. In 10-20 years we will be in extremely desperate shape, if not sooner. If you think not, you are a pie-in-the-sky Pollyanna.
 

kosar

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ocelot said:
See? I knew DTB's obsession will the Great President Bill would surface.


It doesn't take much. We could be talking about any political subject in the world and he has the 'ability' to weave Bubba in there somehow.
 

dawgball

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I guess I just don't put all of the emphasis on our government to make sure things go right.

I work to make a current and hopefully comfortable future living. The only way my plan will not work is that 1. I fail at my attempts to be successful; 2. Our government continues to control more and more of my earned income; 3. The US does not come to grips that we MUST compete in a global marketplace because this will continue to cripple the dollar.

I don't view that as pie in the sky.

Like one of the speakers t the seminar on Monday said (I believe he is originally from India now living is US):
"If you can't make it in the US, don't pack your bags. If you can't make it here, then you wouldn't last a year anywhere else."

I happen to agree with that thought and it sums up why I get so tired of people complaining ALL the time about how rough they (middle class) have it.

I do agree that our economy has some very bad attributes but it has been that way for decades. We, as a country both as a whole and individually, live on credit.

In all seriousness, what could Bush do today to please you according to the economy? If he got on TV today and said... (besides that he is quitting ) :) would have you at least be in a position to wait and see if it works rather than immediately bashing him?
 

DOGS THAT BARK

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Matt and Ocelot The reason I refer to Clinton as he is to the liberals,an icon that could do no wrong, yet regardless of what Bush does it is absolutely the pits. Only thing I try to do it let the #s tell the story and could show equally some good #'s in Clinton years and might even do so if not so utterly distained by his character.

On the issue of bubble up bubble down. That is not much of a secret. The dot.com boom bought MANY new companys and revenue for taxes into the picture. 200+ PE's were common place.
When reality hit so went the bubble along with trillions of investors money. I don't blame Bill any more for the bust than the boom--it was just an occurance during who ever was in office at the time.
I think Bush administration came in at very unforunate time catching end of bubble-start of recession-compounded by 9-11.
Do I think his tax cut or administration was the cure? May have helped a tad, if so only minutely,but it was the resilience of free enterprise and corporate america's ability to adapt.I think I said before I don't think any standing pres has or administration has a very significant impact on economy.Now Greenspan or who is selected next is a different story.
I also think that we as individuals are responsible for the same resilience and believe the same people adapt inhard times and good times--and there are those that won't have anything in good or bad except excuses. The only excuse I find exceptable is a disabilty and few other circumstances--but for 90% of them unless they can prove those that succeed in life have more hours in a day than they, all arguements are discounted. Life isn't a lottery where you sit back and wait for the jackpot.Your a perfect example Matt.You put lots of hard work-took risks-to make your business successful.What person sitting back drawing welfare didn't have that same opportunity. I know its an old over used cliche but
--" the harder I work the luckier I get" has a lot of merit.
 

CHARLESMANSON

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lol you liberals are so desperate..and......ocelot you're classic!! Keep up the whining, bitching, complaining and fingerpointing....it's what your party does best!!! No ideas, no plan....only blaming Bush for EVERYTHING!!!

This is exactly why you guys lost the election!! America is sick of whiney little bitches like you and your fellow liberals.

AGAIN - KEEP IT UP!! WE LIKE RUNNING THE COUNTRY!!! ......now go sit in the corner you whiney liberal :clap:
 

kosar

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Wayne,

If investors 'lost trillions', then they made gazillions. You make it seem like the Great Depression 2 happened as Bubba was leaving office. He left the DOW 3x higher than he found it. I'll take a 'bust' like that anytime, if it's preceded by that type of 'boom.' Especially compared to the great 1/3 of one percent that it's risen during Dubya's stint.

As least you (kind of) acknowledge that there were some good things happening during Bubba's era. Also good that you admit that your hatred for him prevents you from really posting those things. You can continue to worry about Clinton lying about a blow job while Rome is burning.

As far as the other thing, well, your disdain for poor people is well-known. Some people know and understand that in a Capitalist society there will be people on every rung of the income ladder. It's a seemingly obvious certainty. There are people that abuse the welfare system and millionaires who abuse all kinds of other systems. That happens, but in a civil society you can't throw the baby out with the bathwater.

People that work hard are normally rewarded. Sometimes you and others seem jealous of the 'lazy' welfare recipients. As if they're living high on the hog on the governments dime or something. Most of the time it's not choice, anyways, but even in the cases where it is, would you really want to live like that? Collecting your $1200 check every month for doing nothing, and living in a slum eating Mac -n- Cheese every night?
 

gardenweasel

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maybe we could join the E.U........

on second thought,maybe that`s not such a great idea.....


""""""CIA Gives Grim Warning on European Prospects
Nicholas Christian - January16, 2005

http://news.scotsman.com/index.cfm?id=56762005

THE CIA has predicted that the European Union will break-up within 15 years unless it radically reforms its ailing welfare systems.

The report by the intelligence agency, which forecasts how the world will look in 2020, warns that Europe could be dragged into economic decline by its ageing population. It also predicts the end of Nato and post-1945 military alliances.

In a devastating indictment of EU economic prospects, the report warns: "The current EU welfare state is unsustainable and the lack of any economic revitalisation could lead to the splintering or, at worst, disintegration of the EU, undermining its ambitions to play a heavyweight international role."

It adds that the EU’s economic growth rate is dragged down by Germany and its restrictive labour laws. Reforms there - and in France and Italy to lesser extents - remain key to whether the EU as a whole can break out of its "slow-growth pattern".

Reflecting growing fears in the US that the pain of any proper reform would be too much to bear, the report adds that the experts it consulted "are dubious that the present political leadership is prepared to make even this partial break, believing a looming budgetary crisis in the next five years would be the more likely trigger for reform".

The EU is also set for a looming demographic crisis because of a drop in birth rates and increased longevity, with devastating economic consequences.

The report says: "Either European countries adapt their workforces, reform their social welfare, education and tax systems, and accommodate growing immigrant populations [chiefly from Muslim countries] or they face a period of protracted economic stasis."

As a result of the increased immigration needed, the report predicts that Europe’s Muslim population is set to increase from around 13% today to between 22% and 37% of the population by 2025, potentially triggering tensions.

The report predicts that America’s relationships with Europe will be "dramatically altered" over the next 15 years, in a move away from post-Second World War institutions. Nato could disappear and be replaced by increased EU action.

"The EU, rather than Nato, will increasingly become the primary institution for Europe, and the role Europeans shape for themselves on the world stage is most likely to be projected through it," the report adds. "Whether the EU will develop an army is an open question."

Defence spending by individual European countries, including the UK, France, and Germany, is likely to fall further behind China and other countries over the next 15 years. Collectively these countries will outspend all others except the US and possibly China.

The expected next technological revolution will involve the convergence of nano, bio, information and materials technology and will further bolster China and India’s prospects, the study predicts. Both countries are investing in basic research in these fields and are well placed to be leaders. But whereas the US will retain its overall lead, the report warns "Europe risks slipping behind Asia in some of these technologies".

For Europe, an increasing preference for natural gas may reinforce regional relationships, such as those with Russia or North Africa, given the inter-dependence of pipeline delivery, the report argues. But this means the EU will have to deal with Russia, which the report also warns "faces a severe demographic crisis resulting from low birth rates, poor medical care and a potentially explosive Aids situation".

Russia also borders an "unstable region" in the Caucasus and Central Asia, "the effects of which - Muslim extremism, terrorism and endemic conflict - are likely to continue spilling over into Russia".

The report also largely en dorses forecasts that by 2020 China’s gross domestic product will exceed that of individual western economic powers except for the US. India’s GDP will have overtaken or be overtaking European economies.

Because of the sheer size of China’s and India’s populations their standard of living need not approach European and western levels to become important economic powers.

The economies of other developing countries, such as Brazil, could surpass all but the largest European countries by 2020""""""......

we`re o.k...... but,our european enemies asses are in the fire......not hard to understand why they hate and resent us.....

they can`t keep up...individually or collectively...
 
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dawgball

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My disgust is normally not geared at people who need and receive assistance. But I have been known to rant a little in the past about it. My biggest beef is with middle class people that act like they are getting shafted all the time and they live in a slum. When you take a look at their life, they are probably living like royalty would in many countries. We are just spoiled, plain and simple and we don't appreciate all of the great things that this country is about.

We would rather bitch about something than look for a solution if one is necessary.
 
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