So Dawgs, you think it's ok for Bushes plan to cut the SS of the working class? Why not just remove the cap at $90,000 that would solve all the problems. Of course the rich would have to pay more. But what the heck they already live like "royalty."
Great job George!
- Thread starter ocelot
- Start date
"So Dawgs, you think it's ok for Bushes plan to cut the SS of the working class? Why not just remove the cap at $90,000 that would solve all the problems."
I would agree on removing cap as I stated before Stevie--don't know if it would solve prob but would be a big step.
--I disagree on Bush wanting to cut benefits on working class--in fact read this recent article and it makes you wonder who are the dems and who are the rebs.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20050430...0RZ.3QA;_ylu=X3oDMTBiMW04NW9mBHNlYwMlJVRPUCUl
Matt How many times do I have to say I have no distain for poor--many of those houses with flowers and white picket fences Edward speaks of earn less than your welfate recipiants 80% liberal voting block.
--and on your comment
"
Sometimes you and others seem jealous of the 'lazy' welfare recipients."
Right were jealous--of your 80% liberal block
We prefer slums and miss the graffiti--hate those neat yards and flowers.
Hate those family walks with pets ect--Much preffer a drugs pushers and crack houses.
Hate walking through parks and seeing boyscouts and joggers--bringin those gays and pushers.
Hate that smell of out door BBQ's much prefer the smell of burning communities and protestors.
And whats with these birds chirping in the morning and crickets at night--wheres those big box getto blasters.
And the holidays --Christmas bah humbug--and fathers day--what the fck is that????
And whats with these schools--don't need any--Its streets smarts that count.
and work--who needs it--we all have gov jobs--thats what are checks say.
And whats these commercials on TV regarding perfect place--Hell everyone knows DC is the real perfect place represented best by our 80% liberal block.
Yep sure are lots of things to be jealous about--to each their own!
I would agree on removing cap as I stated before Stevie--don't know if it would solve prob but would be a big step.
--I disagree on Bush wanting to cut benefits on working class--in fact read this recent article and it makes you wonder who are the dems and who are the rebs.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20050430...0RZ.3QA;_ylu=X3oDMTBiMW04NW9mBHNlYwMlJVRPUCUl
Matt How many times do I have to say I have no distain for poor--many of those houses with flowers and white picket fences Edward speaks of earn less than your welfate recipiants 80% liberal voting block.
--and on your comment
"
Sometimes you and others seem jealous of the 'lazy' welfare recipients."
Right were jealous--of your 80% liberal block
We prefer slums and miss the graffiti--hate those neat yards and flowers.
Hate those family walks with pets ect--Much preffer a drugs pushers and crack houses.
Hate walking through parks and seeing boyscouts and joggers--bringin those gays and pushers.
Hate that smell of out door BBQ's much prefer the smell of burning communities and protestors.
And whats with these birds chirping in the morning and crickets at night--wheres those big box getto blasters.
And the holidays --Christmas bah humbug--and fathers day--what the fck is that????
And whats with these schools--don't need any--Its streets smarts that count.
and work--who needs it--we all have gov jobs--thats what are checks say.
And whats these commercials on TV regarding perfect place--Hell everyone knows DC is the real perfect place represented best by our 80% liberal block.
Yep sure are lots of things to be jealous about--to each their own!
I cut this right from the article Dogs.
"Bush's plan would link the growth in benefits for some retirees to inflation rather than faster-growing wages. Wealthier people would see their future benefits curbed the most while middle-income people would see some limits on benefits but not as much"
The thing is that wealthy people don't need it while the middle class depends on it and in this article, that you pointed to it says that middle-income people will see cuts in benefits.
"Bush's plan would link the growth in benefits for some retirees to inflation rather than faster-growing wages. Wealthier people would see their future benefits curbed the most while middle-income people would see some limits on benefits but not as much"
The thing is that wealthy people don't need it while the middle class depends on it and in this article, that you pointed to it says that middle-income people will see cuts in benefits.
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Stevie--I can try and read up on the program more, but at this point I am not in any position knowledge-wise to take a position on the new plan proposed by Bush.
I do like that he at least put a real plan on the table. Now let the Democrats give their input where it can be improved (this does not include "this won't work.. blah, blah, blah), and hopefully we can come up with a plan that will survive over time and give the support to those who need it when they retire. We also have to keep in mind that SS is not intended as a full reitrement plan. It's intention is a supplement.
I'll try to become more educated on the plan and comment.
I do like that he at least put a real plan on the table. Now let the Democrats give their input where it can be improved (this does not include "this won't work.. blah, blah, blah), and hopefully we can come up with a plan that will survive over time and give the support to those who need it when they retire. We also have to keep in mind that SS is not intended as a full reitrement plan. It's intention is a supplement.
I'll try to become more educated on the plan and comment.
HEY, what's gonna happen to the economy if BUSH gets his way with FVCKING MIDDLE CLASS people up the A$$ when they turn 62.
I would think that it's possible they mite not spend so much knowing their gonna need it later on. What happpens to the econmy and businesses then?
I hope all his oil stocks crash!
I would think that it's possible they mite not spend so much knowing their gonna need it later on. What happpens to the econmy and businesses then?
I hope all his oil stocks crash!
It's true some stocks folks made some money in. But the market since Bush took over has never got back to it's highs. It should grow at least 4 to 5% a year. It should be way past 11000. Nasd should at least be back to 2500 if the young and growing buisness were doing much at all. Just seeing health care, oil and Insurance make killings is not answer. Tax cut seems to have went to far. Now states just get stuck. Anyone seen a interest drop latley. Dont wait to long you might get real old.
S/S fixed is a joke. The ideas so far have been lost on the American people. Mean while the real prplem medicare no one wants to talk about. Now there is a problem that is here in less then 5 years. But lets talk about S/S that has problem in 20 years out.
S/S fixed is a joke. The ideas so far have been lost on the American people. Mean while the real prplem medicare no one wants to talk about. Now there is a problem that is here in less then 5 years. But lets talk about S/S that has problem in 20 years out.
I WANT ALL MY MONEY BACK THAT I PUT INTO SOCIAL SECURTY so i can put it in an IRA...before BUSH concocts some more lies
He can get 100's of Billions of dollars for his little war. He can get Billions of dollars for aid to foreign countries.
And he can still stand there with a staight face and tell old people to go FVCK OFF..All you old people just go FVCK OFF because i need my war machine!
he is some piece of work.
He can get 100's of Billions of dollars for his little war. He can get Billions of dollars for aid to foreign countries.
And he can still stand there with a staight face and tell old people to go FVCK OFF..All you old people just go FVCK OFF because i need my war machine!
he is some piece of work.
"It's true some stocks folks made some money in. But the market since Bush took over has never got back to it's highs"
Never been to its highs since dotcom bust in prior administration.
However if you could look past politics your net worth today would be 3 times greater. Your company retirement stock ASD closed at 14.77 when Slick left--now 44+
*adjusted for 3 for stock split.
You need to dog yourself not GW.I remember long ago you were thanking Clinton for your retirement--correct?
Is there anyway you could look past politics and admit your were wrong--or is once again liberal logic going to trump facts?
Never been to its highs since dotcom bust in prior administration.
However if you could look past politics your net worth today would be 3 times greater. Your company retirement stock ASD closed at 14.77 when Slick left--now 44+
*adjusted for 3 for stock split.
You need to dog yourself not GW.I remember long ago you were thanking Clinton for your retirement--correct?
Is there anyway you could look past politics and admit your were wrong--or is once again liberal logic going to trump facts?
Bottom-line:
Some are and have begun to wake up to the fact that Republicans are all about screwing over the middle and working class. That truth is why they are always saying "Let's not have a class war".
THEY ARE OUT-NUMBERED IN A CLASS WAR, DUH? And yet they wage class war with every piece of legislation they pass. Take the new bankruptcy laws for example.
Do you think Bush and cronies give a DAMN about how many good-paying manufacturing jobs are lost by Americans? Do their actions indicate that they care? Oh, they spew the words all day long but noone I know is better off today than they were in 2000? They are all about cutting labor costs for big business and multi-nationals to increase their profits. We are NOT moving in the direction of raising the living standards of the rest of the world. These bastards in charge would like nothing better than to have slave labor. ARBEIT MACHT FREI.
Some are and have begun to wake up to the fact that Republicans are all about screwing over the middle and working class. That truth is why they are always saying "Let's not have a class war".
THEY ARE OUT-NUMBERED IN A CLASS WAR, DUH? And yet they wage class war with every piece of legislation they pass. Take the new bankruptcy laws for example.
Do you think Bush and cronies give a DAMN about how many good-paying manufacturing jobs are lost by Americans? Do their actions indicate that they care? Oh, they spew the words all day long but noone I know is better off today than they were in 2000? They are all about cutting labor costs for big business and multi-nationals to increase their profits. We are NOT moving in the direction of raising the living standards of the rest of the world. These bastards in charge would like nothing better than to have slave labor. ARBEIT MACHT FREI.
Ocelot - we don't often agree, but I am in total agreement with you statement that the Bush administration is slipping the high hard one to the middle and working class. As you say, bill after bill seems to favor the upper classes at the expense of others. I used to deny that this was part of W's agenda, but it is becoming all to clear.
I think someone needs to define who the working class is.
Personally I consider working class is anyone who works and pays taxes.
Then there are the 70 million that pay no taxes
--and I think majority of us here middle class with maybe a handfull in upperclass.
Since most middleclass derive thier retirement and jobs from big business and many invest in big business (stocks) I am for any breaks they give big business.
Makes little sense to me to take away from the backbone of our economy (big business,small business and working class) and give to the 70 million who contribute nothing.
With that being said I do NOT like his SS propasal to take away from middle class and give to lower class. Goes entirely against you reap what you sow.--but it won't float--the conservatives in his own party will vote it down--what amazes me is the liberals are against it also--can a leopard change his spots??
While GW has nothing to lose the Reb party in general does.It was Bill hanging on to Hilliary's health care reform fiasco till the end that caused big shift in house and senate the following elections--could be instant replay here if nonsense continues.
Case in point on poverty level--$19,000 ???
Notice # of applicants for these "poverty" wages.
Ave starting salary for college degree teacher--$29,000. $10,000 diff from poverty to college professional ? Right!!!
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/05/04/b...0o4oWPDnJV0A4KSq8Q&pagewanted=print&position=
Personally I consider working class is anyone who works and pays taxes.
Then there are the 70 million that pay no taxes
--and I think majority of us here middle class with maybe a handfull in upperclass.
Since most middleclass derive thier retirement and jobs from big business and many invest in big business (stocks) I am for any breaks they give big business.
Makes little sense to me to take away from the backbone of our economy (big business,small business and working class) and give to the 70 million who contribute nothing.
With that being said I do NOT like his SS propasal to take away from middle class and give to lower class. Goes entirely against you reap what you sow.--but it won't float--the conservatives in his own party will vote it down--what amazes me is the liberals are against it also--can a leopard change his spots??
While GW has nothing to lose the Reb party in general does.It was Bill hanging on to Hilliary's health care reform fiasco till the end that caused big shift in house and senate the following elections--could be instant replay here if nonsense continues.
Case in point on poverty level--$19,000 ???
Notice # of applicants for these "poverty" wages.
Ave starting salary for college degree teacher--$29,000. $10,000 diff from poverty to college professional ? Right!!!
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/05/04/b...0o4oWPDnJV0A4KSq8Q&pagewanted=print&position=
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DTB:
"College-degree teacher" does not equate to "college professional" as you seem to imply. The former mignt be an elementary school teacher with a degree while the latter is a college professor who will make well over 29K I am sure.
"College-degree teacher" does not equate to "college professional" as you seem to imply. The former mignt be an elementary school teacher with a degree while the latter is a college professor who will make well over 29K I am sure.
DTB:
Also, this is the first I have heard of how his SS plan takes from middle class to give to lower. Seems to me its designed to take from all workers to give to Wall Street to at best skim off management fees and at worst scam them out of a'la Enron.
Also, this is the first I have heard of how his SS plan takes from middle class to give to lower. Seems to me its designed to take from all workers to give to Wall Street to at best skim off management fees and at worst scam them out of a'la Enron.
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ocelot--i'm still no expert, but i have been reading up on the SS reform a little.
I don't see where this comment comes from:
I would like to see a report that shows that because if this is the case I am certainly against it.
Does anyone have numbers on how large the impact would be if the cap was taken off?
I don't see where this comment comes from:
I would like to see a report that shows that because if this is the case I am certainly against it.
Does anyone have numbers on how large the impact would be if the cap was taken off?
Glad you brought up case study Dawg--Saw something on CNN last Tuesday when in Madisonville (they don't get fox at hotel) on an actual case history on privite accounts. Of course CNN had this guy on saying he did not like it because he did not receive as much as higher salaried peole---of course he and CNN failed to mention same shit occurs under SS. Think you'll find this interesting--but then again comes key question--whats the cost and how will it be paid.
http://www.usatoday.com/printedition/news/20050316/oplede16.art.htm
also from insider online----where I found above link
Private Social Security accounts are already working in Texas and have been for the past 25 years, say observers.
In 1981, federal law allowed municipal government workers to opt-out of Social Security and replace it with private retirement accounts. Galveston County, Texas, decided overwhelmingly to pursue a locally controlled system of private accounts, called the "Alternate Plan."
Under the plan the county withholds about six percent of each employee's salary for retirement; that money, along with a partial match by the county, is invested in personal accounts for each participating employee. The remaining county match covers the cost of disability and life insurance policies for employees, which also pay benefits much higher than those offered by Social Security. It has had remarkable results:
From 1982 through 1997, the rate of return on funds invested in the Galveston plan has averaged 8.6 percent, a return more than four times greater than Social Security.
County workers earning slightly more than $17,000 a year can retire at age 65 with a monthly payment of $1,285 compared with $782 a month under Social Security.
Workers earning $51,263 a year could retire at age 65 with a monthly benefit of $3,846 compared to $1,540 under Social Security.
Even under the relatively low "guaranteed rate of return" in the Galveston plan gives a yield of 4.24 percent, more than double the return for Social Security.
Along with Galveston County, nearby Brazoria and Matagorda Counties and Texas City also voted to quit Social Security in favor of private accounts. Amid growing enthusiasm for an alternative to Social Security, Congress voted in 1983 to end the provisions that give municipal workers the option to leave the federal system.
http://www.usatoday.com/printedition/news/20050316/oplede16.art.htm
also from insider online----where I found above link
Private Social Security accounts are already working in Texas and have been for the past 25 years, say observers.
In 1981, federal law allowed municipal government workers to opt-out of Social Security and replace it with private retirement accounts. Galveston County, Texas, decided overwhelmingly to pursue a locally controlled system of private accounts, called the "Alternate Plan."
Under the plan the county withholds about six percent of each employee's salary for retirement; that money, along with a partial match by the county, is invested in personal accounts for each participating employee. The remaining county match covers the cost of disability and life insurance policies for employees, which also pay benefits much higher than those offered by Social Security. It has had remarkable results:
From 1982 through 1997, the rate of return on funds invested in the Galveston plan has averaged 8.6 percent, a return more than four times greater than Social Security.
County workers earning slightly more than $17,000 a year can retire at age 65 with a monthly payment of $1,285 compared with $782 a month under Social Security.
Workers earning $51,263 a year could retire at age 65 with a monthly benefit of $3,846 compared to $1,540 under Social Security.
Even under the relatively low "guaranteed rate of return" in the Galveston plan gives a yield of 4.24 percent, more than double the return for Social Security.
Along with Galveston County, nearby Brazoria and Matagorda Counties and Texas City also voted to quit Social Security in favor of private accounts. Amid growing enthusiasm for an alternative to Social Security, Congress voted in 1983 to end the provisions that give municipal workers the option to leave the federal system.
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No one knows how the dam thing will work because nothing is law yet. But I wish Bush would stop calling it a retirement plan. That is not what S/S is about. And I see the new budget that was approved cut 10 billion from Medicare. I wonder who that hurts, the rich. No the rich if tax laws stay as voted on get the top 2% another 100 billion for there pockets. Everyone else gets the dribble down. As for the market and Bush all you need to do is read the numbers. Funny a 2 trillion dollar budget and 47 million folks on S/S are the cause of problems. If thats the case. Instead of sending 4.3 billion foreign aid over seas. Cut it by 47 million and just send each S/S recipient a million each. Tell them thats all they get. Let them manage it. You see when you throw numbers around you find out S/S really is not in trouble. There is Plenty money laying around.
