200 Grand for not interviewing a minority candidate???

[dr. freeze]

I thought Italian-Americans were in the minority!!!!

Or does the NFL run its policies only on skin color???

How about if someone is half Mexican and half White? Are they a minority???

How about 25% Black, 75% white??? Is that a minority???

WHat is this world coming too???

Looks like NFL is headed by a bunch of racists themselves!!!!

One by one our freedoms get stripped in this country...one of which is being able to hire and fire who you choose for your own business.....that right sure doesn't exist any more.

What if someone thinks each NFL team should be required to interview a white guy for each playing position because white dudes are underrepresented? Or that collegiate scholarships for basketball should be given equally among the races instead of having a majority of a minority race getting state money to go to college?

As in the above instances, these situations are just ludicrous but for some reason it can be applied to the white males in this country. Even if the white male has a mix of race in him or if the white male was never around when this country had slavery.

Total bullsht

 

[Bobmac]

Agree with you 100% Dr.:thefinger th NFL.

 

[ddubs]

From ESPN......"Tagliabue also has said that future failures to interview minority candidates for a head coaching opening could lead to fines of $500,000 or higher as "conduct detrimental'' to the NFL"

Absolutely ridiculous:nono: :nooo: :bsflag

 

[Grama]

That's a joke. If they would have interviewed 5 blacks and no whites, the league would have probably given them a bonus. But this is the last time you will see this fine. Trust me, there are plenty of tokens around to interview.

 

[gardenweasel]

i understand

i understand

that they attempted to bring in several black candidates to interview,but,the word was out that detroit had the man they wanted and that the process was nothing but a sham....

so the black candidates nixed the interviews.......and rightfully so.....i would feel like a fool under those circumstances,myself....

not to disparage detroit....they knew who they wanted....and got him....

i understand that the nfl wants more minorities in head coaching positions....a noble goal....


but,you can`t legislate this kind of stuff....

i believe that marvin lewis will see some success in cincy.....

i expect denny green to be back very shortly....

tony dungy is successful

ditto herm edwards....

success will bring more black coaches into the fold....and there are some damned good ones around...

fining teams for not conducting sham interviews is not the way to go....


btw.....how the hell did dallas get away with not interviewing black candidates when they signed parcells???

if you are going to apply a stupid rule,apply it across the board...

 

[RAZ]

Right on Doc!! They going to have stipulations on team make up??
How about a quota for whites in the NBA? It is a fukn joke, hire who you want, when you want. When is Grambling/Howard gonna have some affirmative action and hire some white help??

Bottom line is either you have the talent/skills or you don't, regardless of any other factors. if you hire the wrong guy you pay the price in the long run, but it was your choice and right, not a forced hire.

Affirmative action is a fkn joke, it's time has long passed in every regard. I believe whites are the largest group at poverty level, I may be wrong, but i recall reading that after the last census.

You want to make an easy score, start a construction company with a woman/minority owner/president bid on federal/state jobs and watch the cash come in and have your check sent to you every Friday. The guide lines are a fkn joke, I laugh because I get the bid either way usually. Only difference is w/minority company I never even go the jobs, just get my check, every week, same guys work on the job no matter whuich entity gets the bid, just mix em up according to the ratios.

 

[michaeljbird]

BEANTOWNJIM FOR MISS BLACK AMERICA!!!

 

[dr. freeze]

I would like to hear what the blacks would say if all the Hispanics started making a big stink because they were underrepresented in the NBA!!!! And they called for "Affirmative Action"!!!!

And for the "Good ol' boys" argument --- I am sick and tired of hearing about this....the "Good ol' boys" sure do hire quickly athletes for millions of dollars!!! A-Rod, Barry Bonds, Shaquille O'Neal, Tim Duncan, etc. etc. sure do not fall victim to this "Good ol' boys" crap that we always hear about.

Just a bunch of dreamt up bullsht to further divide this country. The Affirmative Action people are the biggest racists themselves. And they need to start being called out on it.

The number of coaches -- assistants to head coaches is WAY higher as a percentage African American as the population of this country. And they still are bitching...and they still try to judge a man based on his skin color.

Get over it!!!!

None of us were here during the slave days and most of us never had ancestors that were here either!!!!

 

[beantownjim]

THIS IS A GOD DAM JOKE BOY HOW SOON WE FORGET CAN I GET COMPENSATION FOR MY ANCESTORS DOES ANYBODY REMEMBER THIS SIGN WELL MY PARENTS DID (NO IRISH NEED APPLY:thefinger) IF I WAS A POOR WHITE KID I WOULD APPLY FOR A POSITION AT AN ALL BLACK MCDONALDS MAYBE IN HARLAM THEN OPEN UP A LAW SUIT IF I DIDNT GET THE JOB CLAIMING RACISM AND DISCRIMINATION.WHAT DO YOU WANT THEM TO DO HIRE DOUG WILLIAMS HE IS A LEADING MAN FOR A HEAD COACHING JOB AND THIS GUY IS SO STUPID HE COULDNT SPELL CAT IF YOU SPOTTED HIM THE C AND A C-T YAH YOU DA MAN DOUG.JESUS CHRIST LETS CUT THROUGH THE CHASE THE REASON WHY THEY DONT WANT BLACK COACH'S IS BECAUSE THEY DONT WANT TO GIVE MILLIONS OF DOLLARS TO A BUNCH OF NUBIANS WHO IF IT WASNT FOR THE COLOR OF THERE SKIN THEY WOULD BE WASHING CARS AT A CAR WASH.LETS CALL A SPADE A SPADE HUH BOYS ALL THIS BULLSHIT STARTED WITH THE REGULAR WORK FORCE WHERE OUR GOVERNMENT SAID WE HAVE TO EVEN OUT THE WORK FORCE AND HIRE MINORITIES EVEN THOUGH THEY TAKE A DIFFERENT TEST THAN EVERYBODY ELSE BECAUSE THEY ARE TO STUPID TO STUDY KNOWN FACT.I HAVE 5 FRIENDS WHO SCORED A PERFECT 100 ON THE BOSTON POLICE TEST BUT THEY COUDNT GET ON THE FORCE BECAUSE THEY NEEDED MINORITIES WHO SCORED 73 ON THE SAME TEST YOU TELL ME WHO IS BEING DISCRIMINATED AGAINST, THE SYSTEM SUCKS.:thefinger


LETS EVEN OUT THE PLAYING FIELD FOR EVERYBODY INCLUDING THE WHITE MAN

 

[Spock]

I HAVE 5 FRIENDS WHO SCORED A PERFECT 100 ON THE BOSTON POLICE TEST BUT THEY COUDNT GET ON THE FORCE BECAUSE THEY NEEDED MINORITIES WHO SCORED 73 ON THE SAME TEST YOU TELL ME WHO IS BEING DISCRIMINATED AGAINST, THE SYSTEM SUCKS.:thefinger

The word was out that all the 5 were BeantownJim's friends

The minorities and scores had nothing to do with the rejections

Good call on the over today Bean boy.

Greetings from the Vulcan
Spock

$ regarding this issue .. another joke . .. amazing what BS is done these days under the guise of such things. the NFL head office people need to be shot by one member of each community in America to represent secularism. :thefinger

 

[ferdville]

I don't think the NFL has any right to tell teams who they should or should not interview. I would like to see someone challenge it in court. Does anyone know the exact language? Does it say Black or Afro-American? I have two good friends from South Africa that are currently in the United States. They are both white. They are probably the only ones I know that can actually check the African-American box on the myriad of government forms that require it and be accurate.

 

[dr. freeze]

lmao....and if it said "black" does that mean Kevin Garnett black? or how about Jason Kidd black -- or even ARod black? how bout Dr Freeze after a summer of golf black?

what a stupid policy!!!

 

[Nick Douglas]

The rule is clearly stated that minorities must be interviewed. The rule was put in place to prevent the exact situation that occured in Detroit, i.e. a open head coaching position being filled without giving minorities a chance to be hired.

Dr. Freeze's comments about Italian Americans, etc. are rediculous. In this case minority is based on race, not nationality. In this case minority means any race besides white because white is the majority race. That should be fairly simple to comprehend, I think.

I think if we look back at the level of success of minority coaches compared to white coaches and the ability to get promoted to *head* coaching positions, there are two things that stand out. 1) It is more difficult to get a first chance to be an NFL (or NCAA D-I) *head* coach if you are a minority and 2) There are fewer chances to succeed if you fail on your first chance if you are a minority *head* coach in the NFL (or NCAA D-I).

That is the issue here. The other examples of reverse discrimination and such are really irrelevant to the discussion about head coaching opportunities for minorities in the NFL. The fact is that there is a perception among NFL executives that minorities in general are a better fit as position coaches or coordinators than as head coaches. That perception makes professional success as an NFL coach unfairly biased against minorities and therefore opens the NFL and its teams up to a hell of a lawsuit if anyone (Johnnie Cochran?) decided to pursue it.

People who bring up ideas like affirmative action for whites or hispanics in the NBA are completely missing the point. By and large athletics are pretty darned close to a meritocracy. There is absolutely no evidence that whites or Native Americans or hispanics have a tougher time making NBA rosters or returning to NBA rosters after initial failure than blacks do when comparing players of equal quality. In fact, I would love for the misguided people who bring up such ideas to point out even a single example of a non-black player being unfairly discriminated against solely based on race. When looking at NFL head coaching positions, there are a number of examples of minorities having success as coordinators or position coaches and being denied initial head coaching opportunities or having an initial head coaching run and being passed over for subsequent head coaching jobs.

 

[dr. freeze]

What if the Mexicans "perceive" that they are not allowed a fair shot at the lower levels (college)? Or that because the NBA is so infiltrated with blacks that they will never get a chance because they will just be repressed?

Your perceptions are so narrow and focused on only blacks it is ridiculous. How many of us here have ever been passed over for a job or a raise? And you left wingers create this idea that anytime something doesn't go well for a minority group it is because of their race!!!!

So instead of creating tough minded people, you create a bunch of whining, crying, misperceiving folks. Granted, not everyone resorts to this defense mechanism -- and this attitude now permeates all races in America thanks to the entitlement/dependent attitude which has been successfully brought out from the liberals.

And why would we legislate on perceptions???? And where is all this hard data on blacks being passed over more than whites??? And where is all this hard data on how successful black coaches are in comparison to whites? And since when does success as a coordinator mean that you will have success as a coach? A head coach is a MUCH different position and my favorite team -- the Dallas Cowboys -- have PROVEN that success as a coordinator can lead to a bumbling idiot as a head coach.

 

[djv]

Det had there guy. For window dressing they should have 1 or 2 blacks in just to say we got our guy. I's BS. But get ready folks at least you younger ones. It will not go away. By 2025 Our country is expected to be 50% white. 50% minorites. It's like 62/38 right now. Chit we let tons of folks in here. But we keep tight numbers on anymore old country folks from Europe coming in.
Your family haveing toug time right now getting a job. Send your wife out shes got a15% better chance then you when she walks in the door. If this gal is Black her chance are even greater.
Are we headed for self distruction?

 

[gardenweasel]

the whole thing is bogus

the whole thing is bogus

is it true that they fined millen....not the organization?....wtf is that about?....

methinks they are afraid to put a black mark on the ford`s and that advertising money.....

and again,why not dallas?...and what about frisco?....what`d they do? bring ted cottrell in......did he get the job?....

there`s got to be a better way.....i don`t disagree that it`s a noble pursuit....

but nobody has to be hired....just keep the assembly line going and pay lip service to the issue..

what`s the real problem here?......who hires the head coaches?

isn`t it the owners?.....aren`t they the one that instituted this swiss cheese rule......so they could step around it and blame and fine the g.m.`s?

doesn`t that sound funny to anybody else?

 

[Mr. Ass]

Don't slam people like Beantown who are only telling the truth. Especially about minorities scoring lower on entrance exams yet getting in on a quota????What ever happened to picking the "best person for the job."

Mr. Ass

Here's to IN-EQUAL OPPORTUNITY :thefinger :moon: :thefinger

 

[Nick Douglas]

Dr. Freeze, you are missing the point. A prospective employee having a misguided perception that they are disciminated against is not he issue here at all. The issue is that in looking at the hiring patterns of NFL execs there is legitimate reason to believe that being a minority is a strike against an equally qualified candidate for a head coaching job.

You did bring up one important point and that is that head coaching is a far different job than being a position coach or a coordinator. Therein lies the problem. Judging by both recent and historical hiring patterns of qualified candidates, NFL execs clearly feel that whites are better fits as head coaches simply based on race when comparing candidates of equal qualification. It is the old glass ceiling story where minoritiy coaches are good enough to be a position coach or an assistant coach, but not a head coach. That is what is unfair.

Tellingly, nobody has responded to the two points I brought up about the original intent of this rule. Nobody has argued against the fact that 1) It is more difficult to get a first chance to be an NFL (or NCAA D-I) *head* coach if you are a minority and 2) There are fewer chances to succeed if you fail on your first chance if you are a minority *head* coach in the NFL (or NCAA D-I). Those are the salient points here, not some bitter rantings about being beaten out for a job by a minority.

For the record, I am against legislated affirmative action in most cases, especially in the public sector. It is a valid point that in many cases better qualified whites, especially white males, are passed over for jobs to make affirmative action quotas. I would say, however, that it is not as bad for white males as some people would have you believe. When you walk in the door for an interview or even your first day on the job as a white male, especially an attractive white male, there is a perception among a lot of folks, especially in the corporate world, that you will ultimately perform your job better than a woman or a minority. Affirmative action is meant to level out the playing field by ensuring that this perception does not unfairly affect hiring practices. Of course there are flaws in affirmative action and like I said above, I believe that in most cases, its time has passed. But I think a lot of white people have adopted this "woe is me" attitude unjustly.

Obviously points like these will be lost on people who want to carry on against affirmative action, but that's life. They will continue to focus on things like lower entrance test scores (since when are higher test scores the only requirement for college entrance?). At the risk of sounding like a conservative, what are you all worried about? If you work hard and are talented in your chosen field I believe you will find success. It may not be *exactly* the level of success you've imagined, but it can ultimately be satisfying. Worrying about the fact that some other guy is unfairly getting what you believe you should have gotten is counterproductive. I am sure you can think back to any disappointment, including the disappointment of being passed over due to affirmative action (which none of you have probably actually experienced in reality) and find things that *you* could have done to improve your chances of success.

And djv, I am pretty sure you are not a maliciously racist person, but posting things like that might give people the wrong impression. Integration has always been America's calling card whether it was white people integrating with Native Americans, blacks coming over after that, Jews and Asians and Arabs following them and so on.

 

[dr. freeze]

Tellingly, nobody has responded to the two points I brought up about the original intent of this rule. Nobody has argued against the fact that 1) It is more difficult to get a first chance to be an NFL (or NCAA D-I) *head* coach if you are a minority and 2) There are fewer chances to succeed if you fail on your first chance if you are a minority *head* coach in the NFL (or NCAA D-I

Why is the burden of proof lie with arguing against these "facts" when they are not at all factual but rather an opinion?

Also....Owners of sports teams see only 1 race..and that race is green....most of them did not get to be rich by making poor decisions with their dollar

If a coach is deemed to be good, they will be hired. If I am Tony Dungee and have proven myself as a coordinator -- I will get my chance. If I succeed at my chance, then I will get a chance to be coach after I get fired. If my name is Dave Campo and I succeed at my job, I will get a chance to be coach. If I fail at my coaching job, I will probably not be hired again in the future ***even though i am white***.

Anecdotal perceptions exist on all sides of the line. There is no need to side with only one perception. Also most coaches take time to go through the ranks. Exceptions exist of course with guys like Gruden who is in his own category. And some coaches take longer than others to get a break. Tony Pena got a break relatively early compared to others. I guarantee you he will be a hot commodity when his contract is up. Other guys from all races don't get breaks as early as they would like. Also it has been only recently when minorities started getting into coaching. As time progresses these guys will go up through the ranks and you will see the numbers take care of themselves. Look on NBA benches and NFL sidelines 20 years ago and it is vastly different than it is now. Is it because of policies?? LMAO heck no. It is simply because more minority candidates have become interested in pursuing a life in coaching after playing and or coaching without playing. The numbers will take care of themselves if we just would show a little patience. There is no absurd glass ceiling and if there is one, you need to apply it to all races which is ridiculous as the Mexicans not playing basketball example.

The freedom to hire and fire who you want with your own money paramount to our country and having fear or retribution ruling a person's business for hiring who he wants is no freedom at all. We don't need the liberal thought police judging us that we are racists when we hire who we want. We also don't need to give token interviews because that is an insult to an entire race of a people making them seem like they are inferior in some way. It also degrades someone as an individual.

 

[dawgball]

Nick--I see your points, but I don't completely agree with them. I think that the problem I have with affirmitive action is that there is no end in sight. Who is going to say that we are at a fair level and it needs to stop? I have definitely not ever been passed over or looked past because of affirmitive action, but I have never been in that situation. I have, however, been in training that it took everything I had on my resume to get the job, only to find that some of the other people that "qualified" were no where near the level that was "required" for the job. I was fortunate enough not to be passed over, but I GUARANTEE there were white people that were. I saw some of my competition, and they hands-down were BETTER qualified for the job. You can not deny that this is simple and blatant racism. As mentioned, it only scares me to think of where this is going and where it will stop.

After reading your post about good looking people that has my thoughts turning to affirmitive action for fat, pimply, red-headed, crooked teeth, and bad breath as the next targets. Maybe more of us will qualify when the controls are loosened!