Remarks by Dennis Prager to the Wednesday Morning Club
Editor?s Note: Author and talk show host Dennis Prager spoke to the Wednesday Morning Club at the Beverly Hills Hotel on May 23 about the rise of secularism in American culture. What follows is a transcript of his remarks, along with introductions by Monty Warner, Communications Director for the Center for the Study of Popular Culture, and Matthew Duda, Executive Vice President of Program Acquisitions and Planning at Showtime Networks.
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MATTHEW DUDA: Thank you. Good afternoon. Although we?ve just recently begun a new century and a new millennium, today?s guest conjures up a different time and a different place for me. And that would be 15th century Italy. Because I see Dennis Prager as a Renaissance Man. One introduction is not enough to do justice to the amazing career of this author, radio commentator, lecturer, philosopher, linguist, scholar, music enthusiast and thinker. But it can rather only serve to mention a few highlights of our gifted speaker?s remarkable journey so far in his life.
Most of us probably know Mr. Prager from his radio show now on the new KRLA, where he challenges us to think each weekday. He?s been sharing his views on radio for 19 years, enriching America?s debate on all the great political and moral issues of the day, radio commentator, lecturer, philosopher, linguist, scholar, music enthusiast and thinker. But it can rather only serve to mention a few highlights of our gifted speaker?s remarkable journey so far in his life.
Often I hope for a little extra traffic or I delay driving into the parking garage and losing the radio signal in order to hear Dennis finish his point on everything from the moral scandal of the tax code to the significance of the revelation that McDonald?s French fries are not in fact vegetarian since the vegetable oil is laced with beef.
Mr. Prager attended Brooklyn College and also studied International History, Comparative Religion and Arabic at the University of Leeds in England In the early ?70s, he attended the Middle East and Russian Institutes of the Columbia School of International Affairs.
He?s written four books including two major works about Judaism, The Nine Questions People Ask About Judaism and Why The Jews? The Reason For Anti-Semitism. His most recent book, Happiness Is A Serious Problem, became a national bestseller. And his book of essays, Think A Second Time, offers a unique perspective on a wide range of topics.
And it is in the introduction to this book that Dennis describes himself as "a highly passionate moderate." In fact, he writes, "I?m so passionate and so moderate that I?m even passionate about being moderate." He invites us to understand that what makes him tick is "a desire to see good conquer evil as corny as that may sound."
One of my favorite essays in that book is called Little Events That Changed My Thinking, which is both moving and profound as Dennis describes how the simple act of disembarking from a train at 11 o?clock at night on one Friday in Helsinki called into question his commitment to his religious observance and how that moment renewed his commitment.
Dennis has a lifelong yearning for clarity which benefits us all. He has said that given a choice between clarity and happiness, he would choose clarity believing that in fact that clarity enhances happiness.
But of all of Mr. Prager?s achievements, I?m sure he?s most proud of his role as a devoted father and husband and often speaks passionately about the importance of family and the crucial need to fight for preserving the innocence of our children.
Once when reflecting on the nature of delivering thousands of speeches, Dennis wrote that "speeches are like one night stands, pleasurable and intense at night, but you never see each other again". Well, not to worry Dennis, although we may not see you, at the very least we?ll respect you in the morning. And now I present Dennis Prager.
[applause]
DENNIS PRAGER: Matthew, thank you. And I mean this from the bottom of my heart, we have not met before. To know that someone of your caliber takes my work that seriously means maybe I?m doing something right. That?s how strongly I feel about your -- because I was asked at the table if I ever feel that I?m whistling in the wind. And I answered with a more coarse response. Yes, that there was always a voice in me. I say this with sadness actually, but there is always a voice in me saying you?re wasting your time. There is. Thank you. I?m not saying it for sympathy, I?m saying it because I?m very open. As I say on the air, I?m not a talk show host, I?m a human being with a talk show.
And so I?m a human being speaking to you fellow human beings, but as I also said, there?s another voice in me saying no, I?m not. Because you can?t change the world for the better. You can change the world for the worse. That?s why I actually thought Time should have picked Hitler as The Man of the Millennium or The Man of the Century or whatever it was. I did not think that was a foolish choice. Einstein was not a profound choice in my opinion.
But it is much easier to do evil than to do good in great numbers. Anyway I don?t want you to despair, I know that some effect is had and this reconfirms it. Thank you.
I am not going to talk to you about James Jeffords, okay, forgive me. But if I have one opportunity at this club, it is not going to be about one political event that will not make or break this republic. I want to talk to you about what will, in my opinion, make or break this republic. And one that a fair number of you, even those of you who may politically agree with me on many issues, may not agree with.
But I want to talk to you about the overriding theme of all of my writing and all of my radio work. And that is the consequences of secularism. I believe that we are reaping a whirlwind by our radical secularizing of our society. I want to make clear I am for secular government. I am passionately for secular government. But a secular government is one thing and a secular life, a secular society is another.
And I want to bring to your attention why I worry about the secularization of America. What does secularization mean? I know you know what it means but I?ll just define it for the sake of my talk. The de-emphasis, the ignoring of and the rejection of God and religion. I think we have paid a terrible price and I want to give you example after example, in no order of importance.
One of you here who has come is a teacher. Where is my teacher? There you are. We were speaking for about two minutes, when we met in the hallway. And she mentioned that where she teaches, she said the students fear nothing -- fear nothing. They will just shout out expletives in front of teachers. And I?ve done shows on that and I will talk about that in a moment.
I agree with her. And by the way, fearing nothing is a very real problem. There used to be a phrase, it?s never used any longer, the highest compliment you could pay somebody was -- for example, that?s a God-fearing man. I like that phrase. If nothing else was said about me when I die, I hope it will be said Dennis Prager was a God-fearing man.
If you don?t fear God, what do you fear? Well, you might fear the police. But basically it?s not a good idea. I teach the Bible verse by verse at the University of Judaism. I am a religious Jew, though not an orthodox one, just in case you were wondering where I?m coming from theologically.
The Hebrew midwives were told by Pharaoh to kill all the Hebrew males. I?m sure you?re aware of the story in Exodus. Although no longer when I speak in America do I believe, especially when I speak at colleges, on the rare occasions they invite a non-liberal, but I no longer ever assume that an audience will understand any reference to the Bible -- from Adam and Eve to certainly the midwives that I?m about to tell you.
But the midwives were told by Pharaoh to kill all the male Hebrew children. And it says why they didn?t. Because they feared God. In other words, they feared God more than they feared Pharaoh. So it?s a very big deal what you said to me about the lack of fear.
Let me tell you another thing about fear of God. There is a statement that I used to say when I was in first grade in Yeshiva in Brooklyn, New York. And everyday we would recite it in Hebrew. And it was [speaks Hebrew]: "Wisdom begins with fear of God." I didn?t understand that phrase until I went to Columbia. When I saw how little wisdom was at my university, I realized that what I said in first grade was accurate.
This is one of the terrible consequences, I am convinced, of the secularization of the western world generally and America specifically. There are many good secular people. There are almost no wise secular people. I know that this is a terrible charge to make, but in my 52 years, I have not met one. I have not even read one.
Wisdom is virtually impossible ? I don?t know exactly why, but I am convinced it is so ? that wisdom is virtually impossible without a reference to a Supreme Being. That is why so much foolishness dominates our universities.
You know, when a caller calls me with a particularly stupid idea, do you know my reaction? What graduate school did you go to? Invariably they will tell me, how did you know I went to graduate school? And I will say, with all respect, you had to go graduate school to say something that stupid. And I will give you an example. I mean this literally.
You have to have gone at least to undergraduate school, to believe men and women are basically the same. Anybody who was a high school dropout believes men and women are basically different. But the more education you receive, the more you are likely to start believing that men and women are basically the same. It?s only that we have been socialized into gender roles. So that if you give a boy dolls, he?ll love dolls. And if you give a girl trucks, she?ll love trucks.
There is no truth to that, but the academy doesn?t care whether it has truth. It has an agenda. But forgetting the issues of agenda, it doesn?t have wisdom. My grandmother who never went to any school, knew men and women were essentially different. Not merely men are from Mars, women are from Venus. I disagree with the author on that. That implies we?re from the same solar system. I have never bought that idea. We are from different galaxies.
But the belief that we?re basically the same, you give a boy dolls-- just today I was reading in the Los Angeles Times an article about Sesame Street in Egypt. And they objected to one idea of having one of the boys regularly play with a doll. And it said in the article, that?s because they?re conservative Muslims.
So, in other words, you have to be a conservative, deeply religious person to believe that it?s unrealistic to show a boy playing with dolls. No you don?t. You just have to have a son. That?s all you need. But this author, who?s well-educated, probably went to a school of journalism, really believes you have to be a conservative Muslim or Christian, in order to find something bizarre about portraying a boy who is regularly playing with dolls.
My sons, when I would take them to Toys R Us when they were young, did not know that there was a doll section. Huge rows of dolls, their eyes glazed over. It?s like me at women?s shoe stores. I see nothing. These boys saw nothing. Like girls don?t see the whole gun section. You give a boy a doll, he will throw it. That?s what he?ll do, he?ll rip an arm off. You give a girl a truck, she may cuddle it.
Are there exceptions? Of course there are exceptions. There are exceptions to [the dictum] "seatbelts save lives," but generally seatbelts save lives. Generally boys are different from girls by nature. You know the story of that poor boy abused by intellectuals ? who was raised as a girl because they had cut off part of his penis or his entire ? I don?t remember exactly. You know that famous story.
He was raised as a girl. Girl?s name, dresses. As a girl, he did not have a penis because of the way he was born and a botched up job in an operation. So the psychiatrist in Johns Hopkins said oh, cut it all off, raise him as a girl. They raised him as a girl and he rebelled-- there?s something wrong in my life ?"this is not me." And it turned out, "Yes, well, we never told you"? he was 15?"the truth is you were born a boy." It?s a horrible, horrible story. It was an important book.
Of course we?re basically different. And my point here, the only place in the world, the only people in the world who will deny men and women are basically different are people with higher education. Consequence number one, the death of wisdom. Secular society is unwise. And the most unwise place in America is the place where most secular ideas dominate ? the university. There is a lot of knowledge at universities; there is precious little wisdom.
Number two, the death of the holy. The concept of the holy is dependent upon God and religion. If you don?t have God and religion, you could still be a decent person. I would never for a moment ? let me make this clear. There are many religious people who stink. There are many secular people who are beautiful. So that is not my argument here.
My argument is the large scale consequences of the death of religion. Now one thing you can?t be if you are fully secular is you can?t be holy. Holy is dependent upon God and religion. What is the holy? The holy is where we raise ourselves above the animal of which we are part. Again, allow me theology. God says in Genesis, let us make man in our image. Who is God talking to? Who is the "us"?
A rabbi I once heard speak on this gave, to my mind, the most accurate and profound answer. Just look at the text he said. What had God created before man? Animals. He was talking to the animals. We are created in the image of God and in the image of animals. And you have your choice how you live your life. You live it as an animal or you live it in the image of God. It is a choice you have and I have every minute, every day.
Now there are times to act like an animal. I want to tell you, my next book is on male sexuality. I am well aware of that aspect of the human being. But, as a general rule, it is far better for us and the world if we act according to that part of us which is created in God?s image. That means we rise above the animal level.
Let me give you a simple example of the death of the holy in our society. Language. People speak far coarser in secular America than they did in the more religious America that I grew up in. To say the F-word out loud, in front of other people, indeed when you first meet them, is like nothing.
I?ll never forget being behind a car which had "S" happens. Right? We all know what the S-word is and that?s what it said. And I had some teenagers in my car as it happened. And I said I really am so angry at the person driving that car and they looked at me like I was, you know, from 15th century Italy. I mean, you know, what?s so terrible about that? Who is it hurting?
So I said to them, "What do you guys think about people who pollute the rivers?" "It?s disgusting." "People who pollute the air?" "It?s disgusting." That?s how I feel about people who pollute the soul. Believe it or not they understood me. They didn?t agree, but they understood my reaction. I believe in the soul. I believe the soul can be polluted. I believe that when you have coarse words all around you, you?re coarsened. That the kids in public schools ? parents call me up to tell me that kids in public schools will frequently just curse in the hallways. I went to a religious school through high school. This is to me incredible.
What do you mean? Well, they don?t do it in front of teachers, do they? Of course they do, even in front of the principal. And what happens? Nothing. So I said, what are you talking about? Name the high school. They named the high school-- local one in our area, Southern California. So I said I find this incredible, it?s hard for me to believe.
Well, across the street from that high school is a burrito shop, Joe?s Burrito Shop. Joe, who is a Hispanic immigrant to the United States called my show. He said Dennis, "I want you to know that I have the burrito shop across the street from that high school. Any kid who curses in this store, I throw them out." And I said, "Well does it work?" He said, "Absolutely, no one curses." I said, "So you mean Joe?s Burrito Shop can stop cursing but the school can?t?" He said, "That?s exactly right."
And it?s the only time I have ever done a show in LA, outside of my studio. I did a show from Joe?s Burrito Shop. I wanted to see for my own self that this was true. And when the students came in, I asked them, I said, is there really a rule here about cursing at Joe?s Burrito Shop? "Oh, yeah, Joe will throw us out." "And you don?t curse?" "No." "What about across the street?" "Oh, who cares?" This is it. This is America.
Now, does cursing matter? That?s a fair question. Does it matter? After all, we?re governed today by the ethic, "Does it hurt anybody?" Who does it hurt? Anybody losing money? Anybody getting punched? Secondhand smoke, the ultimate of dangers in American life.
By the way, I draw an absolute correlation between preoccupation with trivia like secondhand smoke and non-preoccupation with first-hand cursing. This society is so secularized that all its values are body and physical oriented. If somehow I might inhale smoke from your cigarette, that is taboo. That must be banned. So what happens? In our society, you can?t smoke at Dodger Stadium ? but there is far more cursing than there ever was.
When I was a kid, there was a lot of smoke and no cursing. That was a more religious age where, you know what? You?ll get cancer, but hey, it?s fun to smoke. But now, the thought of doing a physically dangerous thing as trivial as secondhand smoke is, it doesn?t matter, that?s dangerous. Cursing, big deal. You get cancer from cursing? No. So our secular society doesn?t care about it.
Now, am I against all cursing at any time? No. If a piano falls on your toe and you go "Gosh darn," you?re a sick dude. Okay? You are a repressed human being. There is no doubt in my mind. All right? "Oh, gosh darn, my toe has just been fractured" is a very strange reaction and I admit that. I wouldn?t say that. All right?
You?re talking intimately with very close friends and it?ll come out an expletive. That?s what they?re there for. That?s okay. In movies where it?s appropriate, not where it?s thrown in because they just have lousy writers, but where it?s necessary? I don?t have an issue. But as a general statement, or not even cursing, just coarseness.
I?ve done show after show about the new 10,000 fans yelling that the other team sucks. I don?t let my children say sucks in the house. And I take them to a hockey game or a baseball game and they hear, you know, da, da, da, da, whatever the team is, sucks. I went to the Kings playoff game. "Redwing?s suck," and there are 10,000 mostly inebriated males screaming it. And my oldest son looked at me, 18 years old, he just looked at me with a big smile when he heard it. I didn?t have to say a word.
Do you know what he has learned? He has learned ? and this is all I care, really, in a sense ? he has learned the difference between holy and secular, between holy and profane. That he has learned that ? I have imparted to him what, if this were theology class, my religion Judaism which is based on separations. That?s the ultimate, ultimate teaching of my religion. And this is one of them, between the holy and the profane. He has learned it.
We don?t like separations. We don?t like male/female separations. We want androgyny. If you notice, every time now, you will hear gay, lesbian, transgendered rights and bisexual. Gay and lesbian, bisexual, transgendered. Do you know what transgendered is? Transgendered is not transsexual. Transsexual is not an issue to me. Transgendered is an issue to me. It?s when a man wears women?s clothing in public for example. That?s transgendered. I?m a man, but I?m taking on the trappings of the female gender.
Do you know a lot of public schools now have that. A cross-dressing day. A lot of your schools and your kids attend them. It is, by the way, in my Torah, fully banned. It is prohibited as eating pork for a man to wear women?s clothing. And that?s the only reason I know to be against it. I have a code, which is another consequence of secularism ? no codes.
That?s why America has more laws today than ever in its history, because we have no religious codes. I?m filled with codes. I would never harass a woman. I was raised ? a woman is a woman, a woman is a fellow creature created in God?s image. My religion doesn?t allow me to do that. But if you don?t have that, you better have codes at work. There is less freedom in American than there was when I was a kid, far less freedom, far less freedom of speech.
The more secular we get, the more laws there will be. When people do not have their own codes, society will impose codes. The more secular the west gets, the more authoritarian government will get. Of this I have no doubt. Freedom is dependent, as de Tocqueville noted in America, upon people?s having religious values. If you have no religious values, the government will have to step in.
You have a big choice. Either a big God in your life or a big government in your life, but one of them is necessary. And that is why there is more government than ever before in American life as we become more and more secular. And mostly the opponents, aside from secular conservatives, are religious people, because they already have a government, if you will. They already have a minister, a king of peace for Christians, if you will. They don?t need a king so much in this world.
So the death of the holy is another one. To some specifics ? abortion. My religion allows abortion to save a women?s life, not because she doesn?t like the sex of the child or because it?s a bad time to get pregnant. When my wife was pregnant many years ago with my first child, it was a Beverly Hills obstetrician we went to and I just interviewed him. I don?t mean on the air, just privately. I was curious.
I?m just curious, doctor, how many women ? this is Beverly Hills. Right? The richest city in America, is it? One of the couple most rich. And I said, "I?m just curious, doctor, how many women come in and want an abortion?" He said, "About half." I said, "And how many of them are married?" "About half."
So I said, "You mean one out of every four pregnant women who comes to you is a married wealthy woman who wants an abortion?" He said, "yeah." Of course he?s totally non-judgmental. I said, "Why? Why would a wealthy married woman want an abortion?" He said, "Well, Mr. Prager, I?ll give you an example. Just last week a woman had explained to me that she and her husband had been planning a trip to Europe for quite some time and this was just not a good time to have a child. Another one had just started a new business and she just did not want to be burdened by pregnancy." And he said it as if they had come in for the removal of a wisdom tooth. Now wisdom had been removed but not a wisdom tooth.
Now let me tell you something ? I thank the religious right of overwhelmingly Christians ? and I am a practicing Jew, for knocking into my head that abortion is not just a procedure with the removal of, you know, an unwanted tissue. It?s a nascent human. I don?t believe it?s murder. It is not in my religion that you are a full human being at that stage. Okay? But it ain?t the removal of a tooth either. It?s big deal
You know, if it?s not murder, it doesn?t mean it?s okay. Rape isn?t murder, but it?s not okay. There?s a very broad sphere of sin between murder and nothing. It?s not nothing. And the only people to tell America abortion is not nothing have been religious people. I think religious women who get pregnant and don?t want to be are thrilled. How come they somehow find the ability to either raise the child or give the child up for adoption which is my preference? I?m a big proponent of adoption.
Secular life has bred another consequence related to abortion, narcissism. See, when there?s nothing higher than you, guess who?s highest? This is by process of elimination. You know, you just have to know that one from two is one. Usually there?s two, there?s God and me. But if there?s no God, there?s me. So you have narcissism.
I interviewed a UCLA psychiatrist, [sounds like] Dr. Steven Marmore. I do every so often. He?s a wonderful psychiatrist and we?re dear friends. And he said to me on the air, it was a great line, he said, "You know, when I was a kid ? not a kid ? when I was a student of psychiatry and in my early years of psychiatry" ? he?s now in his mid-50s ? said "the biggest problem was among patients, too much guilt. Gratuitous guilt."
He said that has long since died in America. The biggest problem in America today is narcissism. "I am the center of the world." That?s exactly what you have to say, to say that abortion is moral. I can even argue for legality, but don?t tell me it?s moral. You can only think it?s moral, you can only say it?s okay if only your concerns matter. And only my concerns matter in so many areas of American life.
Take for example, same sex couple adoption. I mean that strikes me ? if there is a married couple available ? why would I not prefer that a child be adopted by a husband and wife than by two husbands or two wives. It has nothing to do with homosexuality. It has to do with doesn?t a child deserve a mother and a father?
And you know what my callers say? Not my gay callers ? my gay callers tend to agree with me. It?s the heterosexual liberal callers who can?t stand this idea. They call up and tell me, are you saying that a loving two men is not sufficient? Baloney. Where is the data? Where is the data? It should be where are the data, but it doesn?t matter. Where is the data or where are the studies? This is how colleges and graduate schools produce morons.
You see, it is possible to perceive reality without a study. This is amazing and this is heretical if you went to college. For example, major headline in, I think it was the New York Times recently ? study shows most bullies are boys. That was a bloody revelation to me. God, I thought it was girls the whole time, girls went over and punched kids out ? and here it turns out it was boys.
Now if I would have said on the radio, you know folks, you know, overwhelmingly it?s the boys who are bullies in schools, you?d have people who are trained like Pavlov?s dogs to go, how do you know? Where?s the data? Like, where?s Waldo? Where?s the data?
So where?s the data, Dennis, to tell me that a child needs a mother and a father? Where are the studies? Where are the studies? Just needs a loving parent. Doesn?t need a mother and a father. And by the way, if you believe men and women are basically the same, you?re right, you don?t need a mother and a father. Right? They just replicate the other. Is there anyone in this room who is married and raised a child or was married and raised a child who believes that your husband or your wife had nothing unique to give to the child that you didn?t or couldn?t give?
My wife does not have unique female things to give to our children that I cannot give? You?ve got to be secular and well-educated to believe that. And if you?re secular and well-educated, the odds are you?re a liberal. And that is what is believed in much of the world that calls itself progressive.
It?s frightening stuff. It is frightening stuff. To say that a child ideally should have a loving mother and father is now to be considered conservative. I know I?m not conservative. I know I?m centrist, but it doesn?t matter. Not to have radical positions today is to render one a conservative by definition. That statement that I think children should be raised by mothers and fathers renders me non-progressive in our secularized, de-wisdomized society.
Another consequence of the breakdown of religion and God is violent crime. Now am I saying that if all Americans were religiously active, we would have much less violent crime? That?s exactly what I?m saying. And here I?m willing to offer you a proof. I will resign from public life for a year to rethink everything I believe if this turns out not to be the case.
You go to prisons and you find out from murderers the following ? because murder is a very violent crime. That?s the one we most fear, properly so. I?m willing to bet anyone at anytime, and I have no betting inclination, none. We all get a share of vices, gambling was not one of them. It just doesn?t interest me. So to me this is not a gamble.
I would bet anyone a serious proportion of my life savings that not more than one out of ten murderers regularly attended church or synagogue during the time that he murdered ? during those period of years. Think I?d have any takers? Well, I never had any takers.
Would you say then that it?s a coincidence? Or would you say that maybe going to church every Sunday in America, and I keep saying in America, because American religion has been better than European religion. It?s a better country. There?s no comparison. But in America, you go to church every Sunday, you go to synagogue every Saturday ?
you think the chances are 50/50 you?re likely to be a murderer? Of course not, of course not.
I?m not saying all religious people are good in America and certainly not abroad. But in America? No, it has been different. Of course there are consequences. You think you can knock out these issues? People laugh. It?s the way you do it. You laugh at the idea of posting the Ten Commandments in schools. Come on, you think that could have prevented Columbine? In a way, I do actually.
I don?t think it?s coincidental that the death of prayer in school, that the death of the Ten Commandments being posted in school has also ushered in an era? No, it may be correlated and it may not be. That?s true ? absolutely correct. Right? You could say well, you know, most of the shooting has occurred since the Toronto Raptors entered the NBA. That is chronologically correct, but they?re not correlated. I acknowledge that. But I think these are correlated. There is no code. I keep coming back to that. No code.
Another consequence of the breakdown of religion, the equation of human and animal in worth. It?s only religious people, basically, who say otherwise, because people are created in God?s image and animals are not.
I love my dogs. I have more animals than any of you, I suspect. Not just dogs and cats, I got horses and some of you might-- but I also have goats and I bet none of you do. And I have at least 50 chickens at a time, running around my property. I have basically a little farm. I love animals, but they?re animals and I?m human and there is nothing in common except biology.
Now, what is it? 97 percent of my genes are the same as a baboon? I love that. I wish it was 100 percent. That would prove even beyond a shadow of a doubt that the only difference is that I have a divine soul. That I am in the image of God. That you are. But there?s PETA, to which well-educated, secular people give a lot of money. The head of PETA was on my show, Ingrid Newkirk. And my fist question to her was, "Ms. Newkirk, is it true that you have compared the barbecuing of six million chickens with the killing of six million Jews?" And she does. She sees no difference. And that doesn?t trouble me as a Jew, it troubles me as a human.
She doesn?t see the extermination of Armenians or Rwandans any differently. It?s not anti-Semitic, it?s just misanthropic. The animal rights movement is deeply misanthropic. Just last night I heard Sean Hannity ask a representative from PETA, if experimenting on an animal could lead to a cure for AIDS, would you be for it? "No, of course not, of course not because they?re equal." That?s a secular view.
How in secular language can you claim that humans are more valuable than animals? You have no such secular argument. Most Americans do not understand the staggering consequences of the death of religion. What it means in daily life. They think it?s less people going to church ? big deal. It means everything. It is all ultimately decipherable by the consequences of secularization of this society. Like the equation of human and animal.
Oh boy, you should hear callers. I mean sometimes during a show, I just go, "I can?t believe this." I say it on the air. "I can?t believe this." Intelligent women calling me to tell me that if their dog died and if their child died, they would grieve equally.
I have e-mails from intelligent women saying this to me and yelling at me. You are so arrogant, Dennis, to claim that one should grieve more for a child than for a beloved dog. The dog is a member of my family just like my children. I have those e-mails. They sign their names. These are not anonymous kooks. These are well-educated secular members of our society who are lost from my values perspective.
Two final ones, two final consequences. Those of us who are religious, have a religion by definition. For me it?s Judaism, for you it?s Catholicism, for another is it evangelical Christianity ? whatever it might be. So I have a religion. Therefore politics for me is largely a nuisance. I don?t enjoy it, I don?t like it, I?m not interested in it. I have to be because it will affect my life, but I don?t love it; I?m not an activist.
But if you have no religion, politics can become your substitute religion, which it is for many liberals. Liberalism is an "ism." Conservatism is just a way of stopping liberalism. That?s all it is. Conservatives don?t want to do anything. I have no interest in politics except stopping liberalism. I have no desire to pass any legislation, do anything. I am only interested in stopping liberals from ruining the country, as I believe they are. That?s all. I have no other political interests. They are religiously animated. I know it.
So many of my fellow Jews are irreligious and they are liberals. It?s religious. As I say to Jewish audiences to whom I lecture very frequently around America and around the world, I say folks, let?s be honest. For most American Jews, intermarriage is not a Jew and a Christian. It?s a Jew and a Republican.
There is no doubt in my mind ? and I am immersed in Jewish life, and I love Jewish life ? there is no doubt in my mind that a serious percentage of Jews would rather their child marry a non-Jew than a non-liberal. Liberalism is their identity, their religion, their source of values. The New York Times editorial page is a daily update of the Torah. It is their Torah.
The university is their temple and there are better temples and worse temples. Harvard is a better temple. So the joy of having my child go to Harvard, one lives for that. This is it. Jews will meet me at speeches and they will tell me what college their kids go to. I don?t care. I have no interest. It means nothing to me.
I wish I were a college dropout but I?m not. My wife was, God bless her. She retained the ability to think clearly by not having to go that much through higher education.
So even in that area, politics is a substitute religion for the vast majority of people for whom politics is everything in their life. You will find that religion has become secondary or a non-issue. That is their religion.
And finally marriage. Marriage is not very popular and that is a direct consequence of secularism. Do you know why I married? I will tell you why I married. Not because I fell in love. Secularists fall in love too. Secular people fall in love, religious people fall in love. I married because my religion demands that I marry. That?s why.
Is that unromantic? Maybe, but it works and I?m happily married and I love family life and I struggle with monogamy like every other male. But that?s the way it is and I love it and it?s the best thing I ever did. And I grew up ? because men don?t grow up until they?re married. They?re boys with larger chronological age in front of them. There are many 45-year-old boys in Los Angeles. Ask any single woman. They?re already applauding. Okay? And they?re boys because they didn?t marry.
See, it?s backwards. This is what boys say, boys of all ages. I?ll marry when I feel that I am ready to do so. When I feel that I?ve matured enough. But you see, it?s the opposite. You marry, then you get mature. You don?t get mature and then marry. Same for women. A woman remains a girl emotionally, psychologically ? because all we are is wrapped up in ourselves until we marry. It?s as simple as that.
When I was single, and I was single until 32, guess what I thought of when I woke up? Dennis. What does Dennis want to do today? What does Dennis want to do for breakfast? What will Dennis watch tonight? Where will Dennis go this summer? Oh, I love Dennis. It is so good to be with you, Dennis. You make no demands on me, Dennis.
Then I got married, and then, half the time, what does Fran want to do? Where does Fran want to go? What does Fran want to eat? How is Fran feeling? Did I call her today? Then I have kids. Uh-oh, Fran and now David and then Anya and then Aaron. And Dennis is somewhere in the mix. Somewhere not always very clear.
It is almost inconceivable to me not to spend a lot of time with my children. Why do you have children if you?re not gonna spend time with them is one of those puzzles to me. And I have forsaken writing more books and a lot of things. I have paid a price. This is not a complaint. This is the most joyful price I ever paid.
But secularization leads to non-marrying. I married because my religion told me. Do you know that in my religion it?s really severe. In orthodox, I?m not orthodox but I was raised orthodox, in orthodox life, maybe they?ve changed now because it?s too severe, when they call you to the Torah and you?re not married, they will say, "Will the lad please come to the Torah ? not man ? lad, in Hebrew [speaks Hebrew].
You?re "a man" at 20 if you marry, you?re "a lad" at 50 if you didn?t. My religion basically has contempt for bachelors. It?s as simple as that. And you know what? So do I. That?s a fact. I don?t have contempt for single women because most women want to get married. It?s changing now.
A lot of women have digested the idea that narcissism is good and that living for myself and having that freedom ? and by God, I want to die and on my tombstone I want to say I never had to worry about what a husband thought. And I never had to wake up in the middle of the night for a vomiting baby. What a beautiful epitaph to have on your life. And that?s part of the secular non-wisdom and the consequences of the death of God and religion. It is the biggest single factor underlying the pathologies of America and the west. And secularized Europe is worse in most of the ways that I have described.
That?s the way I look at it. So, am I optimistic? I?m not sure. I am only optimistic in this sense. If there is a religious revival, a good one, there could be a bad one. Religion can be done very unhealthfully, fanatically, intolerantly, primitively, intellectually, dishonestly. All of that is possible. But a good and healthy religious revival will save this country and without it I cannot imagine what will. Thank you very much. [applause]
Editor?s Note: Author and talk show host Dennis Prager spoke to the Wednesday Morning Club at the Beverly Hills Hotel on May 23 about the rise of secularism in American culture. What follows is a transcript of his remarks, along with introductions by Monty Warner, Communications Director for the Center for the Study of Popular Culture, and Matthew Duda, Executive Vice President of Program Acquisitions and Planning at Showtime Networks.
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MATTHEW DUDA: Thank you. Good afternoon. Although we?ve just recently begun a new century and a new millennium, today?s guest conjures up a different time and a different place for me. And that would be 15th century Italy. Because I see Dennis Prager as a Renaissance Man. One introduction is not enough to do justice to the amazing career of this author, radio commentator, lecturer, philosopher, linguist, scholar, music enthusiast and thinker. But it can rather only serve to mention a few highlights of our gifted speaker?s remarkable journey so far in his life.
Most of us probably know Mr. Prager from his radio show now on the new KRLA, where he challenges us to think each weekday. He?s been sharing his views on radio for 19 years, enriching America?s debate on all the great political and moral issues of the day, radio commentator, lecturer, philosopher, linguist, scholar, music enthusiast and thinker. But it can rather only serve to mention a few highlights of our gifted speaker?s remarkable journey so far in his life.
Often I hope for a little extra traffic or I delay driving into the parking garage and losing the radio signal in order to hear Dennis finish his point on everything from the moral scandal of the tax code to the significance of the revelation that McDonald?s French fries are not in fact vegetarian since the vegetable oil is laced with beef.
Mr. Prager attended Brooklyn College and also studied International History, Comparative Religion and Arabic at the University of Leeds in England In the early ?70s, he attended the Middle East and Russian Institutes of the Columbia School of International Affairs.
He?s written four books including two major works about Judaism, The Nine Questions People Ask About Judaism and Why The Jews? The Reason For Anti-Semitism. His most recent book, Happiness Is A Serious Problem, became a national bestseller. And his book of essays, Think A Second Time, offers a unique perspective on a wide range of topics.
And it is in the introduction to this book that Dennis describes himself as "a highly passionate moderate." In fact, he writes, "I?m so passionate and so moderate that I?m even passionate about being moderate." He invites us to understand that what makes him tick is "a desire to see good conquer evil as corny as that may sound."
One of my favorite essays in that book is called Little Events That Changed My Thinking, which is both moving and profound as Dennis describes how the simple act of disembarking from a train at 11 o?clock at night on one Friday in Helsinki called into question his commitment to his religious observance and how that moment renewed his commitment.
Dennis has a lifelong yearning for clarity which benefits us all. He has said that given a choice between clarity and happiness, he would choose clarity believing that in fact that clarity enhances happiness.
But of all of Mr. Prager?s achievements, I?m sure he?s most proud of his role as a devoted father and husband and often speaks passionately about the importance of family and the crucial need to fight for preserving the innocence of our children.
Once when reflecting on the nature of delivering thousands of speeches, Dennis wrote that "speeches are like one night stands, pleasurable and intense at night, but you never see each other again". Well, not to worry Dennis, although we may not see you, at the very least we?ll respect you in the morning. And now I present Dennis Prager.
[applause]
DENNIS PRAGER: Matthew, thank you. And I mean this from the bottom of my heart, we have not met before. To know that someone of your caliber takes my work that seriously means maybe I?m doing something right. That?s how strongly I feel about your -- because I was asked at the table if I ever feel that I?m whistling in the wind. And I answered with a more coarse response. Yes, that there was always a voice in me. I say this with sadness actually, but there is always a voice in me saying you?re wasting your time. There is. Thank you. I?m not saying it for sympathy, I?m saying it because I?m very open. As I say on the air, I?m not a talk show host, I?m a human being with a talk show.
And so I?m a human being speaking to you fellow human beings, but as I also said, there?s another voice in me saying no, I?m not. Because you can?t change the world for the better. You can change the world for the worse. That?s why I actually thought Time should have picked Hitler as The Man of the Millennium or The Man of the Century or whatever it was. I did not think that was a foolish choice. Einstein was not a profound choice in my opinion.
But it is much easier to do evil than to do good in great numbers. Anyway I don?t want you to despair, I know that some effect is had and this reconfirms it. Thank you.
I am not going to talk to you about James Jeffords, okay, forgive me. But if I have one opportunity at this club, it is not going to be about one political event that will not make or break this republic. I want to talk to you about what will, in my opinion, make or break this republic. And one that a fair number of you, even those of you who may politically agree with me on many issues, may not agree with.
But I want to talk to you about the overriding theme of all of my writing and all of my radio work. And that is the consequences of secularism. I believe that we are reaping a whirlwind by our radical secularizing of our society. I want to make clear I am for secular government. I am passionately for secular government. But a secular government is one thing and a secular life, a secular society is another.
And I want to bring to your attention why I worry about the secularization of America. What does secularization mean? I know you know what it means but I?ll just define it for the sake of my talk. The de-emphasis, the ignoring of and the rejection of God and religion. I think we have paid a terrible price and I want to give you example after example, in no order of importance.
One of you here who has come is a teacher. Where is my teacher? There you are. We were speaking for about two minutes, when we met in the hallway. And she mentioned that where she teaches, she said the students fear nothing -- fear nothing. They will just shout out expletives in front of teachers. And I?ve done shows on that and I will talk about that in a moment.
I agree with her. And by the way, fearing nothing is a very real problem. There used to be a phrase, it?s never used any longer, the highest compliment you could pay somebody was -- for example, that?s a God-fearing man. I like that phrase. If nothing else was said about me when I die, I hope it will be said Dennis Prager was a God-fearing man.
If you don?t fear God, what do you fear? Well, you might fear the police. But basically it?s not a good idea. I teach the Bible verse by verse at the University of Judaism. I am a religious Jew, though not an orthodox one, just in case you were wondering where I?m coming from theologically.
The Hebrew midwives were told by Pharaoh to kill all the Hebrew males. I?m sure you?re aware of the story in Exodus. Although no longer when I speak in America do I believe, especially when I speak at colleges, on the rare occasions they invite a non-liberal, but I no longer ever assume that an audience will understand any reference to the Bible -- from Adam and Eve to certainly the midwives that I?m about to tell you.
But the midwives were told by Pharaoh to kill all the male Hebrew children. And it says why they didn?t. Because they feared God. In other words, they feared God more than they feared Pharaoh. So it?s a very big deal what you said to me about the lack of fear.
Let me tell you another thing about fear of God. There is a statement that I used to say when I was in first grade in Yeshiva in Brooklyn, New York. And everyday we would recite it in Hebrew. And it was [speaks Hebrew]: "Wisdom begins with fear of God." I didn?t understand that phrase until I went to Columbia. When I saw how little wisdom was at my university, I realized that what I said in first grade was accurate.
This is one of the terrible consequences, I am convinced, of the secularization of the western world generally and America specifically. There are many good secular people. There are almost no wise secular people. I know that this is a terrible charge to make, but in my 52 years, I have not met one. I have not even read one.
Wisdom is virtually impossible ? I don?t know exactly why, but I am convinced it is so ? that wisdom is virtually impossible without a reference to a Supreme Being. That is why so much foolishness dominates our universities.
You know, when a caller calls me with a particularly stupid idea, do you know my reaction? What graduate school did you go to? Invariably they will tell me, how did you know I went to graduate school? And I will say, with all respect, you had to go graduate school to say something that stupid. And I will give you an example. I mean this literally.
You have to have gone at least to undergraduate school, to believe men and women are basically the same. Anybody who was a high school dropout believes men and women are basically different. But the more education you receive, the more you are likely to start believing that men and women are basically the same. It?s only that we have been socialized into gender roles. So that if you give a boy dolls, he?ll love dolls. And if you give a girl trucks, she?ll love trucks.
There is no truth to that, but the academy doesn?t care whether it has truth. It has an agenda. But forgetting the issues of agenda, it doesn?t have wisdom. My grandmother who never went to any school, knew men and women were essentially different. Not merely men are from Mars, women are from Venus. I disagree with the author on that. That implies we?re from the same solar system. I have never bought that idea. We are from different galaxies.
But the belief that we?re basically the same, you give a boy dolls-- just today I was reading in the Los Angeles Times an article about Sesame Street in Egypt. And they objected to one idea of having one of the boys regularly play with a doll. And it said in the article, that?s because they?re conservative Muslims.
So, in other words, you have to be a conservative, deeply religious person to believe that it?s unrealistic to show a boy playing with dolls. No you don?t. You just have to have a son. That?s all you need. But this author, who?s well-educated, probably went to a school of journalism, really believes you have to be a conservative Muslim or Christian, in order to find something bizarre about portraying a boy who is regularly playing with dolls.
My sons, when I would take them to Toys R Us when they were young, did not know that there was a doll section. Huge rows of dolls, their eyes glazed over. It?s like me at women?s shoe stores. I see nothing. These boys saw nothing. Like girls don?t see the whole gun section. You give a boy a doll, he will throw it. That?s what he?ll do, he?ll rip an arm off. You give a girl a truck, she may cuddle it.
Are there exceptions? Of course there are exceptions. There are exceptions to [the dictum] "seatbelts save lives," but generally seatbelts save lives. Generally boys are different from girls by nature. You know the story of that poor boy abused by intellectuals ? who was raised as a girl because they had cut off part of his penis or his entire ? I don?t remember exactly. You know that famous story.
He was raised as a girl. Girl?s name, dresses. As a girl, he did not have a penis because of the way he was born and a botched up job in an operation. So the psychiatrist in Johns Hopkins said oh, cut it all off, raise him as a girl. They raised him as a girl and he rebelled-- there?s something wrong in my life ?"this is not me." And it turned out, "Yes, well, we never told you"? he was 15?"the truth is you were born a boy." It?s a horrible, horrible story. It was an important book.
Of course we?re basically different. And my point here, the only place in the world, the only people in the world who will deny men and women are basically different are people with higher education. Consequence number one, the death of wisdom. Secular society is unwise. And the most unwise place in America is the place where most secular ideas dominate ? the university. There is a lot of knowledge at universities; there is precious little wisdom.
Number two, the death of the holy. The concept of the holy is dependent upon God and religion. If you don?t have God and religion, you could still be a decent person. I would never for a moment ? let me make this clear. There are many religious people who stink. There are many secular people who are beautiful. So that is not my argument here.
My argument is the large scale consequences of the death of religion. Now one thing you can?t be if you are fully secular is you can?t be holy. Holy is dependent upon God and religion. What is the holy? The holy is where we raise ourselves above the animal of which we are part. Again, allow me theology. God says in Genesis, let us make man in our image. Who is God talking to? Who is the "us"?
A rabbi I once heard speak on this gave, to my mind, the most accurate and profound answer. Just look at the text he said. What had God created before man? Animals. He was talking to the animals. We are created in the image of God and in the image of animals. And you have your choice how you live your life. You live it as an animal or you live it in the image of God. It is a choice you have and I have every minute, every day.
Now there are times to act like an animal. I want to tell you, my next book is on male sexuality. I am well aware of that aspect of the human being. But, as a general rule, it is far better for us and the world if we act according to that part of us which is created in God?s image. That means we rise above the animal level.
Let me give you a simple example of the death of the holy in our society. Language. People speak far coarser in secular America than they did in the more religious America that I grew up in. To say the F-word out loud, in front of other people, indeed when you first meet them, is like nothing.
I?ll never forget being behind a car which had "S" happens. Right? We all know what the S-word is and that?s what it said. And I had some teenagers in my car as it happened. And I said I really am so angry at the person driving that car and they looked at me like I was, you know, from 15th century Italy. I mean, you know, what?s so terrible about that? Who is it hurting?
So I said to them, "What do you guys think about people who pollute the rivers?" "It?s disgusting." "People who pollute the air?" "It?s disgusting." That?s how I feel about people who pollute the soul. Believe it or not they understood me. They didn?t agree, but they understood my reaction. I believe in the soul. I believe the soul can be polluted. I believe that when you have coarse words all around you, you?re coarsened. That the kids in public schools ? parents call me up to tell me that kids in public schools will frequently just curse in the hallways. I went to a religious school through high school. This is to me incredible.
What do you mean? Well, they don?t do it in front of teachers, do they? Of course they do, even in front of the principal. And what happens? Nothing. So I said, what are you talking about? Name the high school. They named the high school-- local one in our area, Southern California. So I said I find this incredible, it?s hard for me to believe.
Well, across the street from that high school is a burrito shop, Joe?s Burrito Shop. Joe, who is a Hispanic immigrant to the United States called my show. He said Dennis, "I want you to know that I have the burrito shop across the street from that high school. Any kid who curses in this store, I throw them out." And I said, "Well does it work?" He said, "Absolutely, no one curses." I said, "So you mean Joe?s Burrito Shop can stop cursing but the school can?t?" He said, "That?s exactly right."
And it?s the only time I have ever done a show in LA, outside of my studio. I did a show from Joe?s Burrito Shop. I wanted to see for my own self that this was true. And when the students came in, I asked them, I said, is there really a rule here about cursing at Joe?s Burrito Shop? "Oh, yeah, Joe will throw us out." "And you don?t curse?" "No." "What about across the street?" "Oh, who cares?" This is it. This is America.
Now, does cursing matter? That?s a fair question. Does it matter? After all, we?re governed today by the ethic, "Does it hurt anybody?" Who does it hurt? Anybody losing money? Anybody getting punched? Secondhand smoke, the ultimate of dangers in American life.
By the way, I draw an absolute correlation between preoccupation with trivia like secondhand smoke and non-preoccupation with first-hand cursing. This society is so secularized that all its values are body and physical oriented. If somehow I might inhale smoke from your cigarette, that is taboo. That must be banned. So what happens? In our society, you can?t smoke at Dodger Stadium ? but there is far more cursing than there ever was.
When I was a kid, there was a lot of smoke and no cursing. That was a more religious age where, you know what? You?ll get cancer, but hey, it?s fun to smoke. But now, the thought of doing a physically dangerous thing as trivial as secondhand smoke is, it doesn?t matter, that?s dangerous. Cursing, big deal. You get cancer from cursing? No. So our secular society doesn?t care about it.
Now, am I against all cursing at any time? No. If a piano falls on your toe and you go "Gosh darn," you?re a sick dude. Okay? You are a repressed human being. There is no doubt in my mind. All right? "Oh, gosh darn, my toe has just been fractured" is a very strange reaction and I admit that. I wouldn?t say that. All right?
You?re talking intimately with very close friends and it?ll come out an expletive. That?s what they?re there for. That?s okay. In movies where it?s appropriate, not where it?s thrown in because they just have lousy writers, but where it?s necessary? I don?t have an issue. But as a general statement, or not even cursing, just coarseness.
I?ve done show after show about the new 10,000 fans yelling that the other team sucks. I don?t let my children say sucks in the house. And I take them to a hockey game or a baseball game and they hear, you know, da, da, da, da, whatever the team is, sucks. I went to the Kings playoff game. "Redwing?s suck," and there are 10,000 mostly inebriated males screaming it. And my oldest son looked at me, 18 years old, he just looked at me with a big smile when he heard it. I didn?t have to say a word.
Do you know what he has learned? He has learned ? and this is all I care, really, in a sense ? he has learned the difference between holy and secular, between holy and profane. That he has learned that ? I have imparted to him what, if this were theology class, my religion Judaism which is based on separations. That?s the ultimate, ultimate teaching of my religion. And this is one of them, between the holy and the profane. He has learned it.
We don?t like separations. We don?t like male/female separations. We want androgyny. If you notice, every time now, you will hear gay, lesbian, transgendered rights and bisexual. Gay and lesbian, bisexual, transgendered. Do you know what transgendered is? Transgendered is not transsexual. Transsexual is not an issue to me. Transgendered is an issue to me. It?s when a man wears women?s clothing in public for example. That?s transgendered. I?m a man, but I?m taking on the trappings of the female gender.
Do you know a lot of public schools now have that. A cross-dressing day. A lot of your schools and your kids attend them. It is, by the way, in my Torah, fully banned. It is prohibited as eating pork for a man to wear women?s clothing. And that?s the only reason I know to be against it. I have a code, which is another consequence of secularism ? no codes.
That?s why America has more laws today than ever in its history, because we have no religious codes. I?m filled with codes. I would never harass a woman. I was raised ? a woman is a woman, a woman is a fellow creature created in God?s image. My religion doesn?t allow me to do that. But if you don?t have that, you better have codes at work. There is less freedom in American than there was when I was a kid, far less freedom, far less freedom of speech.
The more secular we get, the more laws there will be. When people do not have their own codes, society will impose codes. The more secular the west gets, the more authoritarian government will get. Of this I have no doubt. Freedom is dependent, as de Tocqueville noted in America, upon people?s having religious values. If you have no religious values, the government will have to step in.
You have a big choice. Either a big God in your life or a big government in your life, but one of them is necessary. And that is why there is more government than ever before in American life as we become more and more secular. And mostly the opponents, aside from secular conservatives, are religious people, because they already have a government, if you will. They already have a minister, a king of peace for Christians, if you will. They don?t need a king so much in this world.
So the death of the holy is another one. To some specifics ? abortion. My religion allows abortion to save a women?s life, not because she doesn?t like the sex of the child or because it?s a bad time to get pregnant. When my wife was pregnant many years ago with my first child, it was a Beverly Hills obstetrician we went to and I just interviewed him. I don?t mean on the air, just privately. I was curious.
I?m just curious, doctor, how many women ? this is Beverly Hills. Right? The richest city in America, is it? One of the couple most rich. And I said, "I?m just curious, doctor, how many women come in and want an abortion?" He said, "About half." I said, "And how many of them are married?" "About half."
So I said, "You mean one out of every four pregnant women who comes to you is a married wealthy woman who wants an abortion?" He said, "yeah." Of course he?s totally non-judgmental. I said, "Why? Why would a wealthy married woman want an abortion?" He said, "Well, Mr. Prager, I?ll give you an example. Just last week a woman had explained to me that she and her husband had been planning a trip to Europe for quite some time and this was just not a good time to have a child. Another one had just started a new business and she just did not want to be burdened by pregnancy." And he said it as if they had come in for the removal of a wisdom tooth. Now wisdom had been removed but not a wisdom tooth.
Now let me tell you something ? I thank the religious right of overwhelmingly Christians ? and I am a practicing Jew, for knocking into my head that abortion is not just a procedure with the removal of, you know, an unwanted tissue. It?s a nascent human. I don?t believe it?s murder. It is not in my religion that you are a full human being at that stage. Okay? But it ain?t the removal of a tooth either. It?s big deal
You know, if it?s not murder, it doesn?t mean it?s okay. Rape isn?t murder, but it?s not okay. There?s a very broad sphere of sin between murder and nothing. It?s not nothing. And the only people to tell America abortion is not nothing have been religious people. I think religious women who get pregnant and don?t want to be are thrilled. How come they somehow find the ability to either raise the child or give the child up for adoption which is my preference? I?m a big proponent of adoption.
Secular life has bred another consequence related to abortion, narcissism. See, when there?s nothing higher than you, guess who?s highest? This is by process of elimination. You know, you just have to know that one from two is one. Usually there?s two, there?s God and me. But if there?s no God, there?s me. So you have narcissism.
I interviewed a UCLA psychiatrist, [sounds like] Dr. Steven Marmore. I do every so often. He?s a wonderful psychiatrist and we?re dear friends. And he said to me on the air, it was a great line, he said, "You know, when I was a kid ? not a kid ? when I was a student of psychiatry and in my early years of psychiatry" ? he?s now in his mid-50s ? said "the biggest problem was among patients, too much guilt. Gratuitous guilt."
He said that has long since died in America. The biggest problem in America today is narcissism. "I am the center of the world." That?s exactly what you have to say, to say that abortion is moral. I can even argue for legality, but don?t tell me it?s moral. You can only think it?s moral, you can only say it?s okay if only your concerns matter. And only my concerns matter in so many areas of American life.
Take for example, same sex couple adoption. I mean that strikes me ? if there is a married couple available ? why would I not prefer that a child be adopted by a husband and wife than by two husbands or two wives. It has nothing to do with homosexuality. It has to do with doesn?t a child deserve a mother and a father?
And you know what my callers say? Not my gay callers ? my gay callers tend to agree with me. It?s the heterosexual liberal callers who can?t stand this idea. They call up and tell me, are you saying that a loving two men is not sufficient? Baloney. Where is the data? Where is the data? It should be where are the data, but it doesn?t matter. Where is the data or where are the studies? This is how colleges and graduate schools produce morons.
You see, it is possible to perceive reality without a study. This is amazing and this is heretical if you went to college. For example, major headline in, I think it was the New York Times recently ? study shows most bullies are boys. That was a bloody revelation to me. God, I thought it was girls the whole time, girls went over and punched kids out ? and here it turns out it was boys.
Now if I would have said on the radio, you know folks, you know, overwhelmingly it?s the boys who are bullies in schools, you?d have people who are trained like Pavlov?s dogs to go, how do you know? Where?s the data? Like, where?s Waldo? Where?s the data?
So where?s the data, Dennis, to tell me that a child needs a mother and a father? Where are the studies? Where are the studies? Just needs a loving parent. Doesn?t need a mother and a father. And by the way, if you believe men and women are basically the same, you?re right, you don?t need a mother and a father. Right? They just replicate the other. Is there anyone in this room who is married and raised a child or was married and raised a child who believes that your husband or your wife had nothing unique to give to the child that you didn?t or couldn?t give?
My wife does not have unique female things to give to our children that I cannot give? You?ve got to be secular and well-educated to believe that. And if you?re secular and well-educated, the odds are you?re a liberal. And that is what is believed in much of the world that calls itself progressive.
It?s frightening stuff. It is frightening stuff. To say that a child ideally should have a loving mother and father is now to be considered conservative. I know I?m not conservative. I know I?m centrist, but it doesn?t matter. Not to have radical positions today is to render one a conservative by definition. That statement that I think children should be raised by mothers and fathers renders me non-progressive in our secularized, de-wisdomized society.
Another consequence of the breakdown of religion and God is violent crime. Now am I saying that if all Americans were religiously active, we would have much less violent crime? That?s exactly what I?m saying. And here I?m willing to offer you a proof. I will resign from public life for a year to rethink everything I believe if this turns out not to be the case.
You go to prisons and you find out from murderers the following ? because murder is a very violent crime. That?s the one we most fear, properly so. I?m willing to bet anyone at anytime, and I have no betting inclination, none. We all get a share of vices, gambling was not one of them. It just doesn?t interest me. So to me this is not a gamble.
I would bet anyone a serious proportion of my life savings that not more than one out of ten murderers regularly attended church or synagogue during the time that he murdered ? during those period of years. Think I?d have any takers? Well, I never had any takers.
Would you say then that it?s a coincidence? Or would you say that maybe going to church every Sunday in America, and I keep saying in America, because American religion has been better than European religion. It?s a better country. There?s no comparison. But in America, you go to church every Sunday, you go to synagogue every Saturday ?
you think the chances are 50/50 you?re likely to be a murderer? Of course not, of course not.
I?m not saying all religious people are good in America and certainly not abroad. But in America? No, it has been different. Of course there are consequences. You think you can knock out these issues? People laugh. It?s the way you do it. You laugh at the idea of posting the Ten Commandments in schools. Come on, you think that could have prevented Columbine? In a way, I do actually.
I don?t think it?s coincidental that the death of prayer in school, that the death of the Ten Commandments being posted in school has also ushered in an era? No, it may be correlated and it may not be. That?s true ? absolutely correct. Right? You could say well, you know, most of the shooting has occurred since the Toronto Raptors entered the NBA. That is chronologically correct, but they?re not correlated. I acknowledge that. But I think these are correlated. There is no code. I keep coming back to that. No code.
Another consequence of the breakdown of religion, the equation of human and animal in worth. It?s only religious people, basically, who say otherwise, because people are created in God?s image and animals are not.
I love my dogs. I have more animals than any of you, I suspect. Not just dogs and cats, I got horses and some of you might-- but I also have goats and I bet none of you do. And I have at least 50 chickens at a time, running around my property. I have basically a little farm. I love animals, but they?re animals and I?m human and there is nothing in common except biology.
Now, what is it? 97 percent of my genes are the same as a baboon? I love that. I wish it was 100 percent. That would prove even beyond a shadow of a doubt that the only difference is that I have a divine soul. That I am in the image of God. That you are. But there?s PETA, to which well-educated, secular people give a lot of money. The head of PETA was on my show, Ingrid Newkirk. And my fist question to her was, "Ms. Newkirk, is it true that you have compared the barbecuing of six million chickens with the killing of six million Jews?" And she does. She sees no difference. And that doesn?t trouble me as a Jew, it troubles me as a human.
She doesn?t see the extermination of Armenians or Rwandans any differently. It?s not anti-Semitic, it?s just misanthropic. The animal rights movement is deeply misanthropic. Just last night I heard Sean Hannity ask a representative from PETA, if experimenting on an animal could lead to a cure for AIDS, would you be for it? "No, of course not, of course not because they?re equal." That?s a secular view.
How in secular language can you claim that humans are more valuable than animals? You have no such secular argument. Most Americans do not understand the staggering consequences of the death of religion. What it means in daily life. They think it?s less people going to church ? big deal. It means everything. It is all ultimately decipherable by the consequences of secularization of this society. Like the equation of human and animal.
Oh boy, you should hear callers. I mean sometimes during a show, I just go, "I can?t believe this." I say it on the air. "I can?t believe this." Intelligent women calling me to tell me that if their dog died and if their child died, they would grieve equally.
I have e-mails from intelligent women saying this to me and yelling at me. You are so arrogant, Dennis, to claim that one should grieve more for a child than for a beloved dog. The dog is a member of my family just like my children. I have those e-mails. They sign their names. These are not anonymous kooks. These are well-educated secular members of our society who are lost from my values perspective.
Two final ones, two final consequences. Those of us who are religious, have a religion by definition. For me it?s Judaism, for you it?s Catholicism, for another is it evangelical Christianity ? whatever it might be. So I have a religion. Therefore politics for me is largely a nuisance. I don?t enjoy it, I don?t like it, I?m not interested in it. I have to be because it will affect my life, but I don?t love it; I?m not an activist.
But if you have no religion, politics can become your substitute religion, which it is for many liberals. Liberalism is an "ism." Conservatism is just a way of stopping liberalism. That?s all it is. Conservatives don?t want to do anything. I have no interest in politics except stopping liberalism. I have no desire to pass any legislation, do anything. I am only interested in stopping liberals from ruining the country, as I believe they are. That?s all. I have no other political interests. They are religiously animated. I know it.
So many of my fellow Jews are irreligious and they are liberals. It?s religious. As I say to Jewish audiences to whom I lecture very frequently around America and around the world, I say folks, let?s be honest. For most American Jews, intermarriage is not a Jew and a Christian. It?s a Jew and a Republican.
There is no doubt in my mind ? and I am immersed in Jewish life, and I love Jewish life ? there is no doubt in my mind that a serious percentage of Jews would rather their child marry a non-Jew than a non-liberal. Liberalism is their identity, their religion, their source of values. The New York Times editorial page is a daily update of the Torah. It is their Torah.
The university is their temple and there are better temples and worse temples. Harvard is a better temple. So the joy of having my child go to Harvard, one lives for that. This is it. Jews will meet me at speeches and they will tell me what college their kids go to. I don?t care. I have no interest. It means nothing to me.
I wish I were a college dropout but I?m not. My wife was, God bless her. She retained the ability to think clearly by not having to go that much through higher education.
So even in that area, politics is a substitute religion for the vast majority of people for whom politics is everything in their life. You will find that religion has become secondary or a non-issue. That is their religion.
And finally marriage. Marriage is not very popular and that is a direct consequence of secularism. Do you know why I married? I will tell you why I married. Not because I fell in love. Secularists fall in love too. Secular people fall in love, religious people fall in love. I married because my religion demands that I marry. That?s why.
Is that unromantic? Maybe, but it works and I?m happily married and I love family life and I struggle with monogamy like every other male. But that?s the way it is and I love it and it?s the best thing I ever did. And I grew up ? because men don?t grow up until they?re married. They?re boys with larger chronological age in front of them. There are many 45-year-old boys in Los Angeles. Ask any single woman. They?re already applauding. Okay? And they?re boys because they didn?t marry.
See, it?s backwards. This is what boys say, boys of all ages. I?ll marry when I feel that I am ready to do so. When I feel that I?ve matured enough. But you see, it?s the opposite. You marry, then you get mature. You don?t get mature and then marry. Same for women. A woman remains a girl emotionally, psychologically ? because all we are is wrapped up in ourselves until we marry. It?s as simple as that.
When I was single, and I was single until 32, guess what I thought of when I woke up? Dennis. What does Dennis want to do today? What does Dennis want to do for breakfast? What will Dennis watch tonight? Where will Dennis go this summer? Oh, I love Dennis. It is so good to be with you, Dennis. You make no demands on me, Dennis.
Then I got married, and then, half the time, what does Fran want to do? Where does Fran want to go? What does Fran want to eat? How is Fran feeling? Did I call her today? Then I have kids. Uh-oh, Fran and now David and then Anya and then Aaron. And Dennis is somewhere in the mix. Somewhere not always very clear.
It is almost inconceivable to me not to spend a lot of time with my children. Why do you have children if you?re not gonna spend time with them is one of those puzzles to me. And I have forsaken writing more books and a lot of things. I have paid a price. This is not a complaint. This is the most joyful price I ever paid.
But secularization leads to non-marrying. I married because my religion told me. Do you know that in my religion it?s really severe. In orthodox, I?m not orthodox but I was raised orthodox, in orthodox life, maybe they?ve changed now because it?s too severe, when they call you to the Torah and you?re not married, they will say, "Will the lad please come to the Torah ? not man ? lad, in Hebrew [speaks Hebrew].
You?re "a man" at 20 if you marry, you?re "a lad" at 50 if you didn?t. My religion basically has contempt for bachelors. It?s as simple as that. And you know what? So do I. That?s a fact. I don?t have contempt for single women because most women want to get married. It?s changing now.
A lot of women have digested the idea that narcissism is good and that living for myself and having that freedom ? and by God, I want to die and on my tombstone I want to say I never had to worry about what a husband thought. And I never had to wake up in the middle of the night for a vomiting baby. What a beautiful epitaph to have on your life. And that?s part of the secular non-wisdom and the consequences of the death of God and religion. It is the biggest single factor underlying the pathologies of America and the west. And secularized Europe is worse in most of the ways that I have described.
That?s the way I look at it. So, am I optimistic? I?m not sure. I am only optimistic in this sense. If there is a religious revival, a good one, there could be a bad one. Religion can be done very unhealthfully, fanatically, intolerantly, primitively, intellectually, dishonestly. All of that is possible. But a good and healthy religious revival will save this country and without it I cannot imagine what will. Thank you very much. [applause]
