- Mar 19, 2006
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Auto Bail Out
- Thread starter StevieD
- Start date
cool. give over 100 billion to aig and stick your nose to 15 bil to the big 3.
this is prob some really bad news for the short term.
now the dow futures are -311, wait till morning :scared
tomorrow is crash big fucking time. i sure hope not but....
this is prob some really bad news for the short term.
now the dow futures are -311, wait till morning :scared
tomorrow is crash big fucking time. i sure hope not but....
All because of union concessions. And they're not really asking them to recede the current employees, they want to go after the retirees.
the bright side... there are gonna be some good stock opportunities after the next few days/weeks. we're gonna tank for a bit more, right? right!
glad my retirement is out of action after losing nearly half in the last 6 months.
let me get another beer.
White Housed to give money??? Word is Bush does not want to end his term as Hoover/Bush.
I don't know why they pick on blue coller guys. Today it was stated union guys are 8% of cost of new car 10% when retires are included. Mr Wagner CEO of G M only made 16 million last 3 years. He's about 1% by himself. Supplies and retooling of plants is where the big cost are.
I don't know why they pick on blue coller guys. Today it was stated union guys are 8% of cost of new car 10% when retires are included. Mr Wagner CEO of G M only made 16 million last 3 years. He's about 1% by himself. Supplies and retooling of plants is where the big cost are.
Interesting breakdown there.....dont you think we're over focusing on the union costs here.....one big difference between GM/Chrysler and the rest of the worlds automakers are the built in legacy costs....yes, that means union retirees health benefits are still being paid for by the company, but its the same for management benefits post retirements as well.
Its not just Union pay that drives up the Big 3 costs....of course that gets lost in shuffle as everyone loves to hate on the Union as the root of all evil......seems to me the R's fighting this would rather break the union as opposed to trying to fix this mess.
I am a reluctant supporter of the bailout....if we can give Wall St 700 Billion (which, by the way is a lot more than experts figured Wall St really needed) with little strings attatched so they can pay out golden parachutes, it seems a little backwards that we cant find some short term cash--on a loan basis--to help out large companies that employ blue collar workers and also help keep afloat the smaller suppliers up and down the automotive food chain.
This, however, is what is wrong with our government....it works for the fat cats in suits and not for the men and women toiling in the middle class.
No auto bailout today
No auto bailout today
Friday, December 12, 2008
Officials: No auto bailout today
David Shepardson and Gordon Trowbridge / Detroit News Washington Bureau
WASHINGTON -- The Bush Administration said Friday it would consider the use of money from the Wall Street bailout to help the domestic carmakers avoid looming bankruptcy -- but officials said no decision is likely today.
"Given the current weakened state of the U.S. economy, we will consider other options if necessary -- including use of the TARP program -- to prevent a collapse of troubled automakers," White House spokeswoman Dana Perino said, referring to the $700 billion Troubled Assets Relief Program approved by Congress in October, which has sent billions of dollars to troubled financial firms.
Officials were in talks with automakers on Friday, but must still decide how much and what conditions to attach to loans.
Late Friday, S&P warned that both GM and Ford said in light of the Senate vote "the risk of default by one or both of these companies over the next few months remains very high."
Both companies could tumble into bankruptcy in early January. "We believe the several billion dollars in outlays expected during the first few days of January 2009 could use up a substantial portion of both companies' respective cash balances, unless U.S. government support of some kind is forthcoming or the suppliers defer these payments," S&P said, saying at least 15 suppliers could also be at risk of collapse the automakers went bankrupt.
Perino said "it would be irresponsible" to allow the companies to fail amid the nation's economic troubles. But in a briefing aboard Air Force One, she repeatedly declined to say when the administration might decide how to act.
"Congress spoke last night. They don't have the votes to do anything, despite having majorities in both the House and the Senate supporting a reasonable approach that we put forward," she said.
The Treasury Department said in a statement it is moving to prevent the collapse of automakers in the wake of Thursday night's defeat by Senate Republicans of efforts to extend a $14 billion aid package to the industry.
"Because Congress failed to act, we will stand ready to prevent an imminent failure until Congress reconvenes and acts to address the long-term viability of the industry," the department said in a statement.....
Detroit's Big Three have applied for more than $16 billion in loans for future advanced projects. Now, they may still win funding for those projects if the emergency funding comes from the TARP program.
General Motors Corp., which fell as low as $2.61 earlier in the day, had recovered substantially, but closed down about 5 percent at $3.92 a share in extremely heavy trading.
Ford closed at $3.05, up 5.2 percent, and well off its low of $2.12.
from Detnews.com, go there for full story
No auto bailout today
Friday, December 12, 2008
Officials: No auto bailout today
David Shepardson and Gordon Trowbridge / Detroit News Washington Bureau
WASHINGTON -- The Bush Administration said Friday it would consider the use of money from the Wall Street bailout to help the domestic carmakers avoid looming bankruptcy -- but officials said no decision is likely today.
"Given the current weakened state of the U.S. economy, we will consider other options if necessary -- including use of the TARP program -- to prevent a collapse of troubled automakers," White House spokeswoman Dana Perino said, referring to the $700 billion Troubled Assets Relief Program approved by Congress in October, which has sent billions of dollars to troubled financial firms.
Officials were in talks with automakers on Friday, but must still decide how much and what conditions to attach to loans.
Late Friday, S&P warned that both GM and Ford said in light of the Senate vote "the risk of default by one or both of these companies over the next few months remains very high."
Both companies could tumble into bankruptcy in early January. "We believe the several billion dollars in outlays expected during the first few days of January 2009 could use up a substantial portion of both companies' respective cash balances, unless U.S. government support of some kind is forthcoming or the suppliers defer these payments," S&P said, saying at least 15 suppliers could also be at risk of collapse the automakers went bankrupt.
Perino said "it would be irresponsible" to allow the companies to fail amid the nation's economic troubles. But in a briefing aboard Air Force One, she repeatedly declined to say when the administration might decide how to act.
"Congress spoke last night. They don't have the votes to do anything, despite having majorities in both the House and the Senate supporting a reasonable approach that we put forward," she said.
The Treasury Department said in a statement it is moving to prevent the collapse of automakers in the wake of Thursday night's defeat by Senate Republicans of efforts to extend a $14 billion aid package to the industry.
"Because Congress failed to act, we will stand ready to prevent an imminent failure until Congress reconvenes and acts to address the long-term viability of the industry," the department said in a statement.....
Detroit's Big Three have applied for more than $16 billion in loans for future advanced projects. Now, they may still win funding for those projects if the emergency funding comes from the TARP program.
General Motors Corp., which fell as low as $2.61 earlier in the day, had recovered substantially, but closed down about 5 percent at $3.92 a share in extremely heavy trading.
Ford closed at $3.05, up 5.2 percent, and well off its low of $2.12.
from Detnews.com, go there for full story
Good post. Also keep in mind UAW's membership is down 67% from 1979 if I am not mistaken.
almost all of that "bailout" to Wall St. has been in the form of buying commercial paper, senior notes and preferred stock. To grease the credit wheels. Starting to work some.
This is to busineses that make money and have made money. Taxpayers have darn good chance of getting it paid back, with interest.
You wanna loan even 1 million to a business that hasn't made money in years? Is that a good idea to anyone who understands the idea of profit?
Feds could use TARP money to buy commercial paper from GM and GMAC so consumers can get loans easier to buy their cars. What good would that do? When times good GM sold over million cars a month and still lost money.
The point of business is to make money. Big 3 forgot that long time ago.
This is to busineses that make money and have made money. Taxpayers have darn good chance of getting it paid back, with interest.
You wanna loan even 1 million to a business that hasn't made money in years? Is that a good idea to anyone who understands the idea of profit?
Feds could use TARP money to buy commercial paper from GM and GMAC so consumers can get loans easier to buy their cars. What good would that do? When times good GM sold over million cars a month and still lost money.
The point of business is to make money. Big 3 forgot that long time ago.
Also, the credit crunch is already affecting tens of millions of blue collar worker's mortage refi, business credit and such. If crunch got read bad, nearly everyone on this forum with even a credit card woulda been effected. Not to mention all the businesses you deal with, many millions of real jobs affected.
The few million blue collar workers affected by Big 3 bailout is drop in bucket by comparison. And even they can't keep their jobs if Big 3 don't get close to profitable real soon. Short term loans ain't gonna do that by themselves.
directing taxpayer's hard earned money to long-sinking businesses not making money means that investement money is not going to businesses that are making money, growing, exporting and creating jobs.
Yes, it's no fun providing loans to these Wall St. assholes, but that's the way it is.
Japan had a lost decade of economic growth due to fact was no stomach there to help out rich dickhead financiers in their financial panic. Not gonna happen here--Bernanke was a renown academic specializing in Japan's troubles (along with the Great Depression) and NY Fed President Tim Geithner, who was instrumental in puting together the TARP (and is now Obama's Treasury Sec) actually lived in Japan at the time.
As I said here on fourm, I didn't like original TARP plan, but do like how they changed it and is going now (and one could argue we've just now had our decade of lost growth..)
The few million blue collar workers affected by Big 3 bailout is drop in bucket by comparison. And even they can't keep their jobs if Big 3 don't get close to profitable real soon. Short term loans ain't gonna do that by themselves.
directing taxpayer's hard earned money to long-sinking businesses not making money means that investement money is not going to businesses that are making money, growing, exporting and creating jobs.
Yes, it's no fun providing loans to these Wall St. assholes, but that's the way it is.
Japan had a lost decade of economic growth due to fact was no stomach there to help out rich dickhead financiers in their financial panic. Not gonna happen here--Bernanke was a renown academic specializing in Japan's troubles (along with the Great Depression) and NY Fed President Tim Geithner, who was instrumental in puting together the TARP (and is now Obama's Treasury Sec) actually lived in Japan at the time.
As I said here on fourm, I didn't like original TARP plan, but do like how they changed it and is going now (and one could argue we've just now had our decade of lost growth..)
Freep.com reports Sunday Morn:
"My gut says it will happen in the next couple of days," said Rep. Fred Upton, R-St. Joseph, at a taping of C-Span's "Newsmakers" program. "But it's got to happen, because otherwise they can't survive until the end of the year."
The size, scope and timing of any lifeline is uncertain. The White House was interested in two of the conditions that Sen. Bob Corker, R-Tenn., tried to broker Thursday: a steep reduction by creditors in automakers' debt and requiring the UAW to take half of the money due for a retiree health-care trust fund in stock, instead of bonds or cash.
..........
as a side note
The Detroit News and Detroit Free Press (Detnews doesn't publish on Sundays like Freep) are leaning toward cutting home delivery to three days a week. Will then be largest city in US without newspaper delivery 7 days.
Things real bad in S. Michigan. Detroit Lions just reflect the mood all around up there. Folks are real depressed, very little optimism in any way (except for wings fans) and very angry at "Southern Senators" they feel wanna hammer Northern rivals and punish unions.
"My gut says it will happen in the next couple of days," said Rep. Fred Upton, R-St. Joseph, at a taping of C-Span's "Newsmakers" program. "But it's got to happen, because otherwise they can't survive until the end of the year."
The size, scope and timing of any lifeline is uncertain. The White House was interested in two of the conditions that Sen. Bob Corker, R-Tenn., tried to broker Thursday: a steep reduction by creditors in automakers' debt and requiring the UAW to take half of the money due for a retiree health-care trust fund in stock, instead of bonds or cash.
..........
as a side note
The Detroit News and Detroit Free Press (Detnews doesn't publish on Sundays like Freep) are leaning toward cutting home delivery to three days a week. Will then be largest city in US without newspaper delivery 7 days.
Things real bad in S. Michigan. Detroit Lions just reflect the mood all around up there. Folks are real depressed, very little optimism in any way (except for wings fans) and very angry at "Southern Senators" they feel wanna hammer Northern rivals and punish unions.
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Larry Kudlow had this to say Friday
Larry Kudlow had this to say Friday
The TARP Deal Is Not Done
Media reports and Wall Street investors are now assuming the Treasury will put up $15 billion in TARP money to keep the Detroit carmakers out of bankruptcy. But my sources tell me that the TARP deal is not done ? not by a long shot.
At a minimum, it?s going to take the Treasury several days to walk through the financial numbers and gather all the facts before it takes any action. The Treasury wants to see the cash-flow data and get to the truth about GM and Chrysler. (Ford doesn?t need the money.) And nothing will happen until these numbers are properly crunched. And the Treasury may well want to arrange for a built-in monitor ? something that might even look like a car tsar ? if any TARP money is dispersed.
Senate sources tell me that any TARP-money allocation might include the very same conditions proposed by Tennessee Sen. Bob Corker in legislation that broke down in a marathon session in the Senate list night.
So folks shouldn?t count their TARP eggs before they?re hatched. And nothing is expected to be announced today.
Larry Kudlow had this to say Friday
The TARP Deal Is Not Done
Media reports and Wall Street investors are now assuming the Treasury will put up $15 billion in TARP money to keep the Detroit carmakers out of bankruptcy. But my sources tell me that the TARP deal is not done ? not by a long shot.
At a minimum, it?s going to take the Treasury several days to walk through the financial numbers and gather all the facts before it takes any action. The Treasury wants to see the cash-flow data and get to the truth about GM and Chrysler. (Ford doesn?t need the money.) And nothing will happen until these numbers are properly crunched. And the Treasury may well want to arrange for a built-in monitor ? something that might even look like a car tsar ? if any TARP money is dispersed.
Senate sources tell me that any TARP-money allocation might include the very same conditions proposed by Tennessee Sen. Bob Corker in legislation that broke down in a marathon session in the Senate list night.
So folks shouldn?t count their TARP eggs before they?re hatched. And nothing is expected to be announced today.
White House: No immediate deal on auto loans
WASHINGTON ? The White House said Sunday it does not expect to make an announcement by Monday on a possible plan to prevent the collapse of the troubled auto industry.
The Bush administration is considering ways to provide emergency aid to General Motors Corp. and Chrysler LLC, which have said they could run out of cash within weeks without government help.
White House officials said they did not expect an announcement on any funding for the companies on Sunday or Monday. President George W. Bush made a surprise visit to Iraq on Sunday.
The aid probably would benefit General Motors and Chrysler. Ford Motor Co. has said it has enough cash to survive 2009 but asked Congress for a line of credit in case financial conditions deteriorate.
GOP Sen. Bob Corker of Tennessee, after speaking with the White House early Sunday, said, "I don't think they yet know what they are going to do." Ron Gettelfinger, the president of the Unietd Auto Workers union, said the union had not held discussions with the White House.
some nice Corvettes here:
Last week, Congress failed to approve $14 billion in loans to help the automakers. The plan would have provided short-term financing to the industry and create a "car czar" who would ensure that the money would transform the Big Three into competitive companies.
In the aftermath of the legislative defeat, administration officials have said they are considering several options, including using money from the $700 billion financial bailout fund to provide loans to the carmakers.
Corker said Treasury officials were reviewing the companies' balance sheets, but "both Chrysler and GM are on the verge of bankruptcy, just a few days away."
Corker and other Republicans sought a compromise that would have insisted the carmakers to restructure their debt and bring wages and benefits in line with those paid by Toyota, Honda and Nissan in the United States. The legislation died when Republicans demanded upfront pay and benefit concessions from the United Auto Workers that union leaders rejected.
Corker urged the administration to seek similar concessions from the auto companies and their unions in return for the money. "Of course, the benefit they have ? they don't have to negotiate. They can say this money is available but it's only available under these conditions," he said in a broadcast interview.
Asked whether the deal was intended to break the UAW, Sen. Debbie Stabenow, D-Mich., said Republican leaders in the Senate did not want an agreement. She said the loans were needed to buy time for the companies to restructure.
"Manufacturing is on the edge in this country. This is not the time for a political agenda," said Stabenow.
The UAW's Gettelfinger said the failure of the legislation showed that Congress should stay "away from the bargaining table."
"The bargaining issue should be handled by the companies and the union," Gettelfinger said.
The administration has several options. It could tap the $700 billion financial rescue bailout fund to provide loans to the carmakers or use part of that fund as a kind of collateral for emergency loans the automakers could get from the Federal Reserve.
The administration also could do nothing, leaving open the possibility that one or more of the automakers could go bankrupt. But White House press secretary Dana Perino said Friday a collapse of the auto industry would have a "severe impact on our economy," and it would be "irresponsible" the destabilize the economy.
The White House is keeping President-elect Barack Obama and his advisers informed of the discussions. If administration officials choose not to provide the money now, the Obama team could wait for the new Congress, which will have stronger Democratic majorities.
Providing aid to the companies could represent a change for the White House, which has previously insisted that the Wall Street rescue plan enacted in October should be used solely to help financial institutions.
Gov. Jennifer Granholm, D-Mich., said Sunday other countries were providing aid to their automakers and the loans were essential to help make the U.S. less dependent on Middle Eastern oil.
If the companies don't get help, "we'll be replacing our reliance on foreign oil with a reliance on foreign batteries because it's going to be the battery that's driving the electric vehicle in the future," Granholm said on NBC's "Meet the Press."
Former Gov. Mitt Romney, R-Mass., a Michigan native whose father, George Romney, served as chairman of American Motors, said he supported the decision by Congress to reject the efforts of the auto chief executives for the federal help.
"They basically came to Washington and said give us a check so we can continue to fund business as usual," Romney said.
Corker was on CBS' "Face the Nation" and "Fox News Sunday," where he appeared with Stabenow. Gettelfinger was on "Late Edition" on CNN.
WASHINGTON ? The White House said Sunday it does not expect to make an announcement by Monday on a possible plan to prevent the collapse of the troubled auto industry.
The Bush administration is considering ways to provide emergency aid to General Motors Corp. and Chrysler LLC, which have said they could run out of cash within weeks without government help.
White House officials said they did not expect an announcement on any funding for the companies on Sunday or Monday. President George W. Bush made a surprise visit to Iraq on Sunday.
The aid probably would benefit General Motors and Chrysler. Ford Motor Co. has said it has enough cash to survive 2009 but asked Congress for a line of credit in case financial conditions deteriorate.
GOP Sen. Bob Corker of Tennessee, after speaking with the White House early Sunday, said, "I don't think they yet know what they are going to do." Ron Gettelfinger, the president of the Unietd Auto Workers union, said the union had not held discussions with the White House.
some nice Corvettes here:
Last week, Congress failed to approve $14 billion in loans to help the automakers. The plan would have provided short-term financing to the industry and create a "car czar" who would ensure that the money would transform the Big Three into competitive companies.
In the aftermath of the legislative defeat, administration officials have said they are considering several options, including using money from the $700 billion financial bailout fund to provide loans to the carmakers.
Corker said Treasury officials were reviewing the companies' balance sheets, but "both Chrysler and GM are on the verge of bankruptcy, just a few days away."
Corker and other Republicans sought a compromise that would have insisted the carmakers to restructure their debt and bring wages and benefits in line with those paid by Toyota, Honda and Nissan in the United States. The legislation died when Republicans demanded upfront pay and benefit concessions from the United Auto Workers that union leaders rejected.
Corker urged the administration to seek similar concessions from the auto companies and their unions in return for the money. "Of course, the benefit they have ? they don't have to negotiate. They can say this money is available but it's only available under these conditions," he said in a broadcast interview.
Asked whether the deal was intended to break the UAW, Sen. Debbie Stabenow, D-Mich., said Republican leaders in the Senate did not want an agreement. She said the loans were needed to buy time for the companies to restructure.
"Manufacturing is on the edge in this country. This is not the time for a political agenda," said Stabenow.
The UAW's Gettelfinger said the failure of the legislation showed that Congress should stay "away from the bargaining table."
"The bargaining issue should be handled by the companies and the union," Gettelfinger said.
The administration has several options. It could tap the $700 billion financial rescue bailout fund to provide loans to the carmakers or use part of that fund as a kind of collateral for emergency loans the automakers could get from the Federal Reserve.
The administration also could do nothing, leaving open the possibility that one or more of the automakers could go bankrupt. But White House press secretary Dana Perino said Friday a collapse of the auto industry would have a "severe impact on our economy," and it would be "irresponsible" the destabilize the economy.
The White House is keeping President-elect Barack Obama and his advisers informed of the discussions. If administration officials choose not to provide the money now, the Obama team could wait for the new Congress, which will have stronger Democratic majorities.
Providing aid to the companies could represent a change for the White House, which has previously insisted that the Wall Street rescue plan enacted in October should be used solely to help financial institutions.
Gov. Jennifer Granholm, D-Mich., said Sunday other countries were providing aid to their automakers and the loans were essential to help make the U.S. less dependent on Middle Eastern oil.
If the companies don't get help, "we'll be replacing our reliance on foreign oil with a reliance on foreign batteries because it's going to be the battery that's driving the electric vehicle in the future," Granholm said on NBC's "Meet the Press."
Former Gov. Mitt Romney, R-Mass., a Michigan native whose father, George Romney, served as chairman of American Motors, said he supported the decision by Congress to reject the efforts of the auto chief executives for the federal help.
"They basically came to Washington and said give us a check so we can continue to fund business as usual," Romney said.
Corker was on CBS' "Face the Nation" and "Fox News Sunday," where he appeared with Stabenow. Gettelfinger was on "Late Edition" on CNN.
Yes there was a lot of talking this morning. I didnt here much new. What strikes me as funny. Is what some Senator from the south think about wages being to high. At least it looks that way.
But it's OK how bad Bush and his hero's screwed this country up. But I bet these Senators don't turn down there $5700 a year raise starting in January. That's a bigger sin then screwing over factory workers.
But it's OK how bad Bush and his hero's screwed this country up. But I bet these Senators don't turn down there $5700 a year raise starting in January. That's a bigger sin then screwing over factory workers.
Levin expects auto loan approval by midweek
Levin expects auto loan approval by midweek
pisses off the folks in S. Michigan that the fellow they've hated over the years for bad-mouthing them and giving no help is their last chance!
Levin expects auto loan approval by midweek
BY KATHLEEN GRAY AND CHRIS CHRISTOFF ? FREE PRESS STAFF WRITER ? December 15, 2008
U.S. Sen. Carl Levin expects a federal loan package for the auto industry to be worked out by midweek.
?The President knows the economy is fragile and that a collapse of the auto industry is not an option,? Levin told reporters this morning.
After the loan package was scuttled by Senate Republicans last week, Levin said he expects President George W. Bush to follow through with the deal he made with House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and transfer up to $15 billion from $700 billion Troubled Assets Relief Program ? or TARP ? to the auto industry.
?And once the president makes a deal, it?s not likely he?ll walk away,? Levin said.
The loan package?s failure last week won?t affect the environment in the Senate next year when Democrats strengthen their majority to at least 58 and perhaps 59 members.
?It was wrong for Senators to try and impose specific wages and benefits in workers,? Levin said. ?That?s a matter for discussion over months.
?But the Senate is a place where we know we have to put those feelings behind us,? he said. ?We wouldn?t be able to function.?
Gov. Jennifer Granholm said today she also expects ?very, very shortly? an announcement from President Bush.
?The White House is well aware that every day that goes by is a day they are deeper in the hole,? Granholm said at a press conference. ?There is a sensitivity to the fragility of the nation?s economy, that if one of these goes down it will affect the whole economy.?
read full story in detnews.com
Levin expects auto loan approval by midweek
pisses off the folks in S. Michigan that the fellow they've hated over the years for bad-mouthing them and giving no help is their last chance!
Levin expects auto loan approval by midweek
BY KATHLEEN GRAY AND CHRIS CHRISTOFF ? FREE PRESS STAFF WRITER ? December 15, 2008
U.S. Sen. Carl Levin expects a federal loan package for the auto industry to be worked out by midweek.
?The President knows the economy is fragile and that a collapse of the auto industry is not an option,? Levin told reporters this morning.
After the loan package was scuttled by Senate Republicans last week, Levin said he expects President George W. Bush to follow through with the deal he made with House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and transfer up to $15 billion from $700 billion Troubled Assets Relief Program ? or TARP ? to the auto industry.
?And once the president makes a deal, it?s not likely he?ll walk away,? Levin said.
The loan package?s failure last week won?t affect the environment in the Senate next year when Democrats strengthen their majority to at least 58 and perhaps 59 members.
?It was wrong for Senators to try and impose specific wages and benefits in workers,? Levin said. ?That?s a matter for discussion over months.
?But the Senate is a place where we know we have to put those feelings behind us,? he said. ?We wouldn?t be able to function.?
Gov. Jennifer Granholm said today she also expects ?very, very shortly? an announcement from President Bush.
?The White House is well aware that every day that goes by is a day they are deeper in the hole,? Granholm said at a press conference. ?There is a sensitivity to the fragility of the nation?s economy, that if one of these goes down it will affect the whole economy.?
read full story in detnews.com
