Barry Bonds indicted by GJ

THE KOD

Registered
Forum Member
Nov 16, 2001
42,495
256
83
Victory Lane
1. How serious are the charges against Bonds?

On Thursday, federal prosecutors charged Barry Bonds with four counts of perjury and one count of obstruction of justice.
Chuck Solomon/SI

They are very serious. A grand jury has identified probable cause -- meaning "more likely than not" -- that Barry Bonds committed perjury and obstruction of justice. If Bonds committed those crimes, he knowingly denigrated our system of justice and those who uphold it. At best, his conduct would be characterized as brazen disregard for legal rules; at worst, an untoward combination of arrogance, deception, and guile in a setting where we demand the very opposite. However a conviction would be described, Bonds would face up to 5 years in prison and a $250,000 fine for each of three perjury charges, and 10 years and a $250,000 fine for an obstruction of justice charge. He would be facing serious time.

2. So Bonds is in a lot of trouble?

Maybe, but maybe not. Keep in mind, a grand jury indictment is a long way from a criminal conviction, which requires the much higher burden of beyond a reasonable doubt. Some legal commentators have also criticized the grand jury process as overly-secretive and stacked too much in favor of the prosecution. The prosecutor, for instance, determines which witnesses appear before the grand jury, can offer immunity to those witnesses, and conducts the basic questioning of the proceeding, while a defendant may not even have his or her attorney present. These limitations to the grand jury hearing may give confidence to Bonds and his attorney, Mike Rains, as they prepare for a possible trial.

Also, even if convicted of the charges against him, it's unclear how long Bonds, a first-time offender of a criminal offense, would serve in prison. As discussed in relation to Michael Vick's guilty plea, first-time offenders tend to receive much lighter sentences than repeat offenders.

3. Will there be a trial?

Not necessarily. Bonds could reach a settlement with the prosecution. A settlement could preclude a high-profile trial and possible conviction of all charges. In such an exchange, however, the prosecution would likely demand that Bonds admits to committing a crime, albeit a lesser offense than he has been charged. In that event, Major League Baseball could take disciplinary action against him and perhaps move to strike his home run record.

Bonds might also seek a trial because he enjoys the wealth to assemble a top legal team, which increases the probability that he could offer creative legal theories in his defense. Generally speaking, affluent defendants are less likely to be convicted than other defendants.

4. Assuming there is a trial, how would the perjury charge play out?

Perjury is to knowingly lie under oath and typically about a matter material to an investigation or case. To prove guilt, the prosecution must establish more than just Bonds lying under oath. It must show that he knowingly lied, meaning his lie must not have been a mistaken belief or a misunderstanding. For that reason, Bonds could argue that he misunderstood the question or the context in which it was asked, which led to an inadvertent lie. He could also argue that he understood the question, but genuinely thought he was telling the truth, such as stating that he believed he was taking a legal performance enhancer, but which in fact was flax seed oil or human growth hormone. All he would need to do is place reasonable doubt in the jury's mind.

The prosecution, however, would likely use the testimony of witnesses to establish that Bonds knowingly lied. For instance, Bond's ex-mistress, Kimberly Bell, told the grand jury that Bonds admitted to knowingly used steroids. But in his defense, Bonds could argue that, given his now difficult relationship with her, Bell cannot be trusted and that his admission to her has been exaggerated or mischaracterized, and thus better constitutes hearsay, a statement made outside of the courtroom that is usually deemed inadmissible because of its lack of reliability.

5. What about the obstruction of justice charge?

Obstruction of justice captures different types of misconduct during a legal proceeding. Basically, if a defendant knowingly tries to impair a proceeding in any material and unacceptable way, such as lying about a material matter under oath, the defendant can be found guilty of the charge. Bonds would likely offer similar defenses to those described above for perjury.
.................................................................
 

MadJack

Administrator
Staff member
Forum Admin
Super Moderators
Channel Owner
Jul 13, 1999
104,640
1,307
113
69
home
1. How serious are the charges against Bonds?

On Thursday, federal prosecutors charged Barry Bonds with four counts of perjury and one count of obstruction of justice.
Chuck Solomon/SI

They are very serious. A grand jury has identified probable cause -- meaning "more likely than not" -- that Barry Bonds committed perjury and obstruction of justice. If Bonds committed those crimes, he knowingly denigrated our system of justice and those who uphold it. At best, his conduct would be characterized as brazen disregard for legal rules; at worst, an untoward combination of arrogance, deception, and guile in a setting where we demand the very opposite. However a conviction would be described, Bonds would face up to 5 years in prison and a $250,000 fine for each of three perjury charges, and 10 years and a $250,000 fine for an obstruction of justice charge. He would be facing serious time.

2. So Bonds is in a lot of trouble?

Maybe, but maybe not. Keep in mind, a grand jury indictment is a long way from a criminal conviction, which requires the much higher burden of beyond a reasonable doubt. Some legal commentators have also criticized the grand jury process as overly-secretive and stacked too much in favor of the prosecution. The prosecutor, for instance, determines which witnesses appear before the grand jury, can offer immunity to those witnesses, and conducts the basic questioning of the proceeding, while a defendant may not even have his or her attorney present. These limitations to the grand jury hearing may give confidence to Bonds and his attorney, Mike Rains, as they prepare for a possible trial.

Also, even if convicted of the charges against him, it's unclear how long Bonds, a first-time offender of a criminal offense, would serve in prison. As discussed in relation to Michael Vick's guilty plea, first-time offenders tend to receive much lighter sentences than repeat offenders.

3. Will there be a trial?

Not necessarily. Bonds could reach a settlement with the prosecution. A settlement could preclude a high-profile trial and possible conviction of all charges. In such an exchange, however, the prosecution would likely demand that Bonds admits to committing a crime, albeit a lesser offense than he has been charged. In that event, Major League Baseball could take disciplinary action against him and perhaps move to strike his home run record.

Bonds might also seek a trial because he enjoys the wealth to assemble a top legal team, which increases the probability that he could offer creative legal theories in his defense. Generally speaking, affluent defendants are less likely to be convicted than other defendants.

4. Assuming there is a trial, how would the perjury charge play out?

Perjury is to knowingly lie under oath and typically about a matter material to an investigation or case. To prove guilt, the prosecution must establish more than just Bonds lying under oath. It must show that he knowingly lied, meaning his lie must not have been a mistaken belief or a misunderstanding. For that reason, Bonds could argue that he misunderstood the question or the context in which it was asked, which led to an inadvertent lie. He could also argue that he understood the question, but genuinely thought he was telling the truth, such as stating that he believed he was taking a legal performance enhancer, but which in fact was flax seed oil or human growth hormone. All he would need to do is place reasonable doubt in the jury's mind.

The prosecution, however, would likely use the testimony of witnesses to establish that Bonds knowingly lied. For instance, Bond's ex-mistress, Kimberly Bell, told the grand jury that Bonds admitted to knowingly used steroids. But in his defense, Bonds could argue that, given his now difficult relationship with her, Bell cannot be trusted and that his admission to her has been exaggerated or mischaracterized, and thus better constitutes hearsay, a statement made outside of the courtroom that is usually deemed inadmissible because of its lack of reliability.

5. What about the obstruction of justice charge?

Obstruction of justice captures different types of misconduct during a legal proceeding. Basically, if a defendant knowingly tries to impair a proceeding in any material and unacceptable way, such as lying about a material matter under oath, the defendant can be found guilty of the charge. Bonds would likely offer similar defenses to those described above for perjury.
.................................................................

huge fine, no more baseball, hr record taken away and an ankle bracelet :shrug:
 

THE KOD

Registered
Forum Member
Nov 16, 2001
42,495
256
83
Victory Lane
The day may come that the bars of a prison cell clank shut behind him, and you wonder if, even then, Barry Bonds will admit to the terrible mistake that changed his life. It isn't the error of using performance-enhancing drugs that will have finally done him in, but the fateful miscalculation of lying to the federal government about it.

That's what Bonds now stands accused of doing, indicted on four counts of perjury and one count of obstructing justice for having denied to a grand jury four years ago that he intentionally used steroids. (Granted, an indictment is not a conviction, but if you truly believe Bonds is innocent of using PEDs and then being less than truthful about it, you may be more comfortable in another area of this Web site -- the one labeled Fantasy.)

Bonds is where he is today -- facing the possibility of prison time and probability that his career is over -- not so much because of his dishonesty but because of his hubris. He was arrogant enough to believe he could treat the feds the way he treated the media, the fans and even the commissioner, by essentially waving his hand dismissively and telling them to get lost. But the federal authorities aren't like some obscure middle reliever, overmatched and intimidated by the great Bonds. They have an awfully good record in going up against sports figures, as Michael Vick, Pete Rose, Jamal Lewis and Darryl Strawberry, to name a few who have fought them and lost, could have told him.

Think of how differently Bonds could have played his cards. A shrewder man might have, if not come clean before the grand jury, at least asserted his Fifth Amendment right against self-incrimination. Had Bonds taken the Fifth, he might have faced some token punishment from baseball commissioner Bud Selig, perhaps a brief suspension, that would have long since been over by now. He probably still would have broken the home run record, it's unlikely he would have been facing any legal charges, and he might even still be a San Francisco Giant, which seems to be his fondest wish. Instead, he's unemployed and likely to stay that way, so untouchable now as a free agent that he might as well be radioactive. All because he thought he was untouchable in a different way, immune to the reach of law enforcement.

Maybe his chemically-enhanced muscle fooled Bonds himself even more than the rest of us. Perhaps the nearly superhuman feats he pulled off in the batter's box made him feel he really could do things mere mortals could not, including stare down the judicial system and make a federal investigation go away. Or maybe other factors convinced him of his invincibility. When a friend like Greg Anderson sits in jail rather than incriminate him, when thousands of Giants fans ignore all the evidence of his steroid use and treat him like a hero, it's no wonder Bonds felt he could get away with anything, including treating federal investigators like a bunch of boobs. He made himself a target the day he denied everything under oath, essentially daring the feds to catch him in a lie, and apparently to his surprise, they took him up on it.

Suddenly the rest of it all seems so trivial -- the issue of the asterisk, his Hall of Fame candidacy, the chances of his finding a new team. Soon, when he's fully embroiled in the legal proceedings that seem sure to come, when he's trying to avoid trading in his baseball uniform for a prison jumpsuit, Bonds may look back on all the booing, all the debates about his rightful place in baseball history and see them as the good old days. If he thinks the fans on the road were tough on him, wait until he goes a few more rounds with federal prosecutors.

It's about to get uglier for Bonds, and you wonder if he realizes that, if he understands he is playing a whole new ball game, with much higher stakes. Chances are, he's confident he'll win this one, too. Bonds may be investigated, prosecuted, convicted and even incarcerated, but you are kidding yourself if you think he will ever be humbled.
 

UGA12

Registered User
Forum Member
Jul 7, 2003
7,774
108
63
Between The Hedges
I hope the 100 other players who were on steroids 5 years ago, don't lie on the stand.

..Because as long as you only lie to the press, fans, other teammates, and yourself then you have great character and are a good role model. Being completely selfish and criminal (taking drugs) is not a problem as long as you don't lie in court.

Bonds was the only person in baseball who has done anything wrong, and now the problem will just go away.

Whew, baseball dodged a bullet.

I dont think anyone denies that there were a lot of players doing roids, but stupidity has levels and lying to the feds is much different than lying to the press. Lying to the press can cost you your job, but as your boy is about to find out lying to the feds can cost you your freedom.
 

THE KOD

Registered
Forum Member
Nov 16, 2001
42,495
256
83
Victory Lane
Bonds' agent: 'I am not talking to any club'by FOXSports.com

Updated: July 10, 2008, 2:18 PM EST 210 comments add this RSS blog email print The Arizona Diamondbacks became the latest team to say "No thanks" to Barry Bonds, and they're not alone.

"I am not talking to any club about Barry Bonds because they all made it very clear to me they are not interested in him. Every club," Borris told USA Today.

The D-backs were the latest to discuss the possibility of signing Bonds, but USA Today says club President Derrick Hall and general manager Josh Byrnes have decided against the idea.

When asked earlier this week, Byrnes admitted he was thinking about adding Bonds to the Diamondbacks' organization.

"He and maybe a couple of others are sort of sitting out there," Byrnes said.

Borris said Bonds continues to work out and would only need 10 days of taking live pitches to be ready to play if a team is willing to sign him.

"I can't believe he doesn't have a job," Borris said, according to USA Today. "No one has offered even the minimum salary. He made the All-Star team last year, and there's no reason to believe he wouldn't have a repeat performance in 2008, except for the conspiracy against him."

Bonds has an all-time record 762 home runs in a career that has spanned 22 seasons.
...............................................................

Maybe Barry can work in the laundry once he gets to prison.

:142smilie
 

Box and one

Registered User
Forum Member
Feb 26, 2000
10,172
309
83
Hudson Valley area.....NY
Bonds is going down...After reading the book " Game of Shawdows" there is so much evidence...balco records,mailings,calenders,notes,etc... Bonds only out is " I didn't know what I was taking".The book was written a few years ago....everyone they exposed....have been convicted...one by one....with barry they are just crossing a few more t's and dotting a few more i's....
 

Mags

Registered User
Forum Member
Aug 8, 2000
2,813
27
0
Hopefully Roger Clemens is next on the list.....

His arrogance really annoyed me - just like Bonds.

Maybe they can share a cell?
 

BigGaycapper

Registered User
Forum Member
May 19, 2008
3,450
132
63
somewhere over the rainbow
Boys, you all know that Bonds is the greatest player of all time right? Steroids or not, he didnt do anything every other player (including pitchers) was doing he was just that much better so you all hate him for it.

As for his arrogance, who cares? What does he owe you? The guy came to play every day and became the best player this game has ever seen, show some respect.

How do you make the all star team one year and cant get a job the next? I'll tell you, Bud Selig has instructed team owners and GM's to not give him a chance and its a damn shame because he would still put up better numbers than most DH's in the A.L.

Im so sick of hearing but but but he did steroids, but but but hes an asshole, but but but hes got baggage, Jesus Christ any team that signs him would see there attendance skyrocket and teams that hosted the team he was on would actually get fans to watch there meaningless games because like him or not "If you sign him, they will come"

Im done, F.U. Bud Selig!
 

THE KOD

Registered
Forum Member
Nov 16, 2001
42,495
256
83
Victory Lane
Boys, you all know that Bonds is the greatest player of all time right? Steroids or not, he didnt do anything every other player (including pitchers) was doing he was just that much better so you all hate him for it.

Bonds felt that if he got the home run record everyone would be falling all over him. All the hoorays he could hope for. A new long term contract. Guess what. People wont support lying cheating bastids. Bonds finally found that out the hard way. Now he has a court system to judge him. My guess is he goes to prison.

As for his arrogance, who cares? What does he owe you? The guy came to play every day and became the best player this game has ever seen, show some respect.

How do you make the all star team one year and cant get a job the next? I'll tell you, Bud Selig has instructed team owners and GM's to not give him a chance and its a damn shame because he would still put up better numbers than most DH's in the A.L.

Im so sick of hearing but but but he did steroids, but but but hes an asshole, but but but hes got baggage, Jesus Christ any team that signs him would see there attendance skyrocket and teams that hosted the team he was on would actually get fans to watch there meaningless games because like him or not "If you sign him, they will come"

Im done, F.U. Bud Selig!
................................................................

I would have no problem with Bonds if he wasn't a lying sack of shit.

He knew through the whole ordeal that if he just denied the claims it would take a long time to prove his guilt. So his legal advice was obviously to say , Duh , I didnt know that was steroids.

He cheated. Plain and simple. He will never make the Hall of Fame. And even though he says he dont care about the Hall, his ego and arrogance tells a differant story.

The guy just dont get it. So don't try to shove Barry down our throats so to speak, you big gay capper.
 
Last edited:

BigGaycapper

Registered User
Forum Member
May 19, 2008
3,450
132
63
somewhere over the rainbow
But But But, he lied, But But But he took steroids.

Who the hell cares, he doesnt owe you or me anything, Best ever hands down. Because he didnt kiss the medias ass you hate. Its just ridiculous and you know it.

Why would you let the best hitter and alltime hr leader in the hall when we didnt let a guy who bet on a game and has the most hits ever in?
Only in America, absolutely sick
 

THE KOD

Registered
Forum Member
Nov 16, 2001
42,495
256
83
Victory Lane
But But But, he lied, But But But he took steroids.

Who the hell cares, he doesnt owe you or me anything, Best ever hands down. Because he didnt kiss the medias ass you hate. Its just ridiculous and you know it.

Why would you let the best hitter and alltime hr leader in the hall when we didnt let a guy who bet on a game and has the most hits ever in?
Only in America, absolutely sick
..............................................................

Yeh Pete Rose and Bonds. You can roll them both up in the same arrogant blunt and smoke them. He cheated.

Steroids make him faster, makes him see pitchs quicker, make his wrists stronger,

cheater cheater rat bastid.

Rot in prison rat bastid. Maybe BigGayDude will visit you and bring you some cigs and wine coolers.

your just stupid

PS - I guarantee you that if you met Bonds walking down the street and attempted to approach him in any way, he would spit in your eye and call you a piece of shit.
 
Last edited:

fatdaddycool

Chi-TownHustler
Forum Member
Mar 26, 2001
13,695
263
83
60
Fort Worth TX usa
Just my two cents but, who cares I actually feel bad for the guy honestly. If it is proven he did lie under oath then, yes he should and will be punished. By the legal system. I find it incredibly hypocritical of people that want all his records and such and all his life accomplishments removed and such. Fans asked for this just as they clamored for more and more speed in the 80's(see Willie and Vince from Cardinals). Nobody bats an eye or even acknowledges the fact that Hank Aaron admittedly took amphetamines by the handful during his career. Can they not be considered performance enhancing. Furthermore much of his alleged steroid use was done before they were considered illegal.
I am sick and tired of hearing about it. I go to a game to see the ball go out of the park not to watch one 156lb guy get into a pitchers duel with Randy Johnson. When society is willing and able to own up to the fact that the fans created this mess then maybe a good solution can come of it other than wasting taxpayers monies on prosecuting one of the best baseball players to ever live.
Don't get me wrong, i don't condone cheating in any sport but it doesn't seem to bother a soul that boxers and fighters and such use t shit like candy and everyone wants the steroid poster boy. The first person that tells me he would rather see nine innings of five hit ball and a one to nothing score is full of shit. Anyone that thinks that every single record in the history of sports can't be beat or tainted in one way or another is also full of it.
Barry has not made any friends with his demeanor, and he may well have fibbed a bit on the stand. I don't know, an indictment is a far cry from a conviction but it seems he has already been judged by the court of popular opinion.

Of course there isn't a soul that posts here that has ever done one damn thing in their respective places of employment that may give them a leg up or earn them a little bit better shot at the title or that big promotion. My gawd, listen to you guys. Its as if the friggin guy stole your childhood when in fact he made more than just a few kids as happy as can be by witnessing one of his towering homers, of which three hundred or more were in place long before any allegations ever surfaced about his alleged usage. I seem to remember Bobby Bonilla growing quite a bit too, should we take away his birthday too? It's just a fuhking game kids and the players get paid lots of money to perform and the owners make twenty times that to place suckers like us in the seats and guess what fills seats in baseball stadiums? It ain't one hit shutouts by Tom Glavine I will tell ya that. I guarantee when you guys look at the schedule of your favorite team next year you are going to look to see when the slugging Red Sox come to town not the Twins.
You guys, the fans, made the bed by purchasing the tickets and filling the stands when Big Mac and Slammin Sammy were going after the record in what might have been the most exciting baseball season I have ever seen, so quit bitching when you find out it wasn't because they wound the balls tighter. You knew the deal back then just like I did. Difference is I didn't give a shit, I like home runs, thats what I go to see. Hell they oughta have steroids in the clubhouse as far as I am concerned, kind of like sunflower seeds. Like I said, I like home runs.

He got indicted for perjury, what the fuhk does that have to do with baseball? Like Steve Carlton cheating on his wife and Wade Boggs eating chicken before every game according to his mistress, who gives a fuhk, just hit the ball and entertain me. Because I KNOW, that is what I paid for, my entertainment, anything beyond that has nothing to do with me and I couldn't care less.

Hope this helps,
FDC
 
Last edited:

BigGaycapper

Registered User
Forum Member
May 19, 2008
3,450
132
63
somewhere over the rainbow
..............................................................

PS - I guarantee you that if you met Bonds walking down the street and attempted to approach him in any way, he would spit in your eye and call you a piece of shit.


Theres the difference, I realize that he doesnt owe me anything. You are in that group with the media that thinks these athletes have to sign every autograph and answer every question, very naive.

You dont pay him, the owners do. He doesn't play for you he plays for the organization. If he goes out and puts up the numbers he has throughout his career then he is doing his job and doing it better than most i might add. Stop thinking like the media, he or any other athlete owes you or I nothing. Is it nice to have an athlete who is fan and media friendly? Absolutely but I dont know many people who could be courtious to everyone on every day. Stop being such a silly bastard and wake up to reality.
 

gardenweasel

el guapo
Forum Member
Jan 10, 2002
40,573
225
63
"the bunker"
I dont think anyone denies that there were a lot of players doing roids, but stupidity has levels and lying to the feds is much different than lying to the press. Lying to the press can cost you your job, but as your boy is about to find out lying to the feds can cost you your freedom.

"i see your point"

/scooter libby.......

barry..a word to the not-so-wise:....appeal,appeal,appeal and hope that obamessiah pardons your miserable ass...
 
Last edited:

jhawksoon

Registered User
Forum Member
May 1, 2005
978
28
0
The Heartland
Gay Capper I feel there are a lot of holes in your opinion. Yes, Bonds did steroids, and yes other players also did them, but not everyone did. Also, how can you be 100% sure that Bonds is the best baseball player to ever play the game. Sure, he hit more homeruns in a single season than anyone else, and he finally ended up with the most total ever, but as a percentage was he really that much more dominating than other players. Many seasons Ruth would hit more home runs than entire teams, now that was domination. In the age of juiced baseballs and short fields it's hard to compare straight numbers, but you can compare what players did against other players during the same time period. Yes, Bonds would have been a first ballot Hall of Famer regardless of steroids, but the best player ever, I disagree. Secondly, being an a-hole definitely needs to be factored in. How many times do you hear ex players talking about how good a clubhouse guy some player is. It's because over a grueling 162 game schedule you've got to have good teammates to help the morale in a clubhouse. A-holes will tear a team apart. That along with the media circus is why teams have stayed away from Bonds. Of course, just my opinion.
 
Bet on MyBookie
Top