Best Conference???

[gman2]

mountain west was not better than the mac.

but the wac was at least on par without a doubt

bowling green, miami, and northern illinois were the only 3 teams worth a shit in the mac last year. the rest were garbage.

wac had fresno, boise, hawaii, tulsa.

based on top 4 teams in wac/mac:

miami/boise (toss-up)
bowling green/fresno (probably lean fresno. better D)
hawaii/northern illinois (would be an interesting game)

then youd have tulsa vs (assuming theyre 4th best in mac) toledo
thats an even game as well. tulsa was outclassed in bowl game but theyre not a bad team

mac/ wac probably even imo

no, the mac is not a top 5 conference. but they are better than the mountain west, and at least on par with the wac

 

[Kdogg21]

not only that, I'm just talking about last year alone, not over the last 10 years, i feel that their top 5 teams easily could match up better than the Big Ten, WAC, and Sun Belt. Going into 2004, do I think they are a top 5 Conf, not really, but last year they sure did a hell of a good job of showing it as but with there players as well. They are going to have a MAC rep in the top 3 in the draft with Roethlisberger. going back to this years stats in the NCAA,......in the top 20 QB's Ratings,.......... there are 5 QB's from the MAC conf. ......... In rushing yards, there are 2 from the MAC in the top 10,......... in receiving yards, there are 3 in the top 20,............ in total offense for the year, there are 5 teams in the top 20.....in defense, i would admit they are not the greatest, but as well not that bad. in over all defense there was 6 teams in the top 50, but i was really impressed by turnover ratio...4 teams in the top 20....

I would definately admit that half of the conferce sucks, but like i said what conference doesn't have that problem. but like i said from the begining, if you matched up the best teams from the best conf, the MAC surely would have a good chance......

 

[Scott4USC]

gman2

Nice post but I am going to disagre and challenge you on your opinion of the MAC being a better conference than the Mountain West. Here me out and I look forward to your reply.

The MAC is a better conference than the Mountain West?

In this post, I also put alongside the team the Sagarin Power Rating. Higher the # the better.

Top 3 teams in the MAC
Miami Ohio 90
Bowling Green 80
Northern Illinois 74

Power Rating = 244

Top 3 teams in the Mountain West
Utah 82
Colorado St. 74
New Mexico 73

Power Rating = 229

3 worst teams in the MAC
Eastern Michigan 53
Ohio U. 53
Buffalo 49

Power Rating = 155

3 worst teams in the Mountain West
BYU 68
San Diego St. 68
Wyoming 65

Power Rating = 201

MAC total of top3/bottom3= 399
M. West total of top3/bottom3= 430 :thumb:

Higher the # the better. Mountain West as a conference is better than the MAC. However, the MAC is better than the Mountain West if you compare top 3 teams. (MAC is top heavy) A side note, remember Colorado St. lost their #1 QB at end of year which hurt them greatly.

Lets see the average SOS...
Mountain West: 56
MAC: 88 :nooo:

I think you have to respect the Mountain West Conference more than the MAC.

What do you think?

 

[Scott4USC]

Kdogg21

Nice post and you brought up some good points/info. I am going to challenge you on this statement of yours.

i feel that their top 5 teams easily could match up better than the Big Ten

MAC top 5 teams with the Sagarin Power Rating along side it. Higher the # the better.

Miami-Ohio 90
Bowling Green 80
Northern Illinois 74
Marshall 72
Toledo 72

Big 10 top 5 teams with the Sagarin Power Rating along side it. Higher the # the better.

Michigan 88
Iowa 88
Ohio St. 87
Purdue 83
Minnesota 82

Advantage Big 10 4-1

Total MAC Ratings = 388
Total Big 10 Ratings= 428 :thumb:

Huge advantage for Big 10. Now I know Sagarin Ratings do not accurately predict the "winner" but this is a very good measure to use to compare both conferences. In addition, if you just look at the matchups, 1 vs 1, 2 vs 2, etc... I have to believe you would have to take every single Big 10 team to win SU. I also think Vegas would have every single Big 10 team favored by at least 7pts. And yes I know vegas spread is not meant to predict winners but it is a good measure to use.

Do you still think the MAC top 5 are "easily" better than the Big 10 top 5? :shrug: I think without question the Big 10 top 5 are better than the Mac top 5 and I also would predict the Big 10 to go 5-0 against the MAC. 1 vs 1, 2 vs 2, etc...

Kdogg21 you also stated....

I would definately admit that half of the conferce sucks, but like i said what conference doesn't have that problem.

The Pac 10 does not have that problem. In the last 11 years, 9 out of the 10 teams have won the conference championship. That is 90% of the conference. In the last 11 years, 17 teams have won or shared the conference title. Only CAL has not won a conference title in the last 11 years and they are a competitive team who won a bowl game last year vs V-Tech. VERY IMPRESSIVE top to bottom in the Pac 10. You are right about the other conferences except the BIG 10 is pretty strong 1-8.

but like i said from the begining, if you matched up the best teams from the best conf, the MAC surely would have a good chance

I think only Miami Ohio would have a good chance. Would they beat the other conference champions? I doubt it but I admit it would be fun to see. I am not confident the 2nd place MAC team could beat the 5th ranked teams in the BCS conferences. Didn't Bowling Green (2nd place Mac team) have trouble beating Northwestern (8th ranked Big 10 team)? That is pathetic. Yet you think the top 5 MAC teams can compete against BCS conferences top 5 teams?

I Call a Spade a Spade.

 

[Kdogg21]

Well ya I think they could compete with most BCS teams.

Northwestern may not be a great BCS team, but its still was a bowl eliglbe team and BG beat them. I could say the same for UCLA as well....

MiamiO --went into Iowa lost, but bounced back with wins at NW and Colorado St. Not only that, a solid win against Louisville, but to win 13 games in a row is impressive, no matter who you are playing....

Marshall---big win vs BCS team Kansas St at Kansas St. also played Tennessee tough in Nashville only losing by 10

Bowling Green----solid win at Purdue, and losing by 7 at Ohio St; beat NIU and won against Northwestern...

Northern Illinois---BIG solid wins vs Maryland; than going to Alabama and winning there and back home vs Iowa St....

Toledo---- won at Pittsburgh, at Marshall and won vs NIU

I believe these 5 teams could honestly match up with anybody. Now would they win vs the likes of Oklahoma, USC, LSU or Ohio St, well probably not, but you would of never thought they would of gotten some quality wins vs these oppts this year. They have all played some good ball. I honestly think a game with Miami Ohio vs USC, or Miami Ohio vs Oklahoma would actually be a decent game. you asked if I honestly think the top 5 of the MAC vs the top 5 of Big 10, the MAC would win, yea, because they have before in the past thats why, and some games this year as well. It also in a sense is I'm from the Midwest and I see alot of these games more than you, and trust me, the MAC does play some good football. You as well could state your case for the WAC as well.....The Big Ten is a solid conference, by both confs play that grinding type of football, thats why it would be a good match up, but in the edge to the MAC, they have a better passing game.....

 

[Scott4USC]

Kdogg21

Nice post and these are the type of discussions that are fun to have. I agree, the MAC had a lot of succuss last season. I agree the MAC had some great wins last year. To be honest i forgot some of the big wins, like Bowling Green over Purdue. That was solid. However that does not change things. Your changing your tune Kdogg21.

You first said,

but like i said from the begining, if you matched up the best teams from the best conf, the MAC surely would have a good chance

then you say,

Well ya I think they could compete with most BCS teams.

BCS teams and best teams from the best conferences are 2 difference arguments. Hell yes I think the top Mac teams can compete with other BCS conference teams. They have proven that. I do not think the top MAC teams can compete with the top teams from other conferences. I think I have shown that.

Here is something you left out.

Marshall---big win vs BCS team Kansas St . I do not think that was a big win because Kansas St. was without their best player QB Robertson. I also think KSU was playing their 3rd string QB as well. If Marshall beat KSU at full strength, then yes, that was impressive.

You also have to factor this during the regular season. These big time programs "usually" do not get up to play against MAC teams. MAC teams are always pumped. Just something to think about.

If Miami Ohio played USC, USC would win 51-27. I would set a vegas line of 24pts which is prob. about right. You cannot compare Miami Ohio with any top tier team because they never played a top tier team all year. Plus their defense is weak and USC could have 8min. drives if they wanted too or score in 2min. drives. You know that. If USC could move down the whole field on 2min. drives against Michigan, what would they do against Miami Ohio? Or does Miami Ohio have a stellar defense like Michigan?

you asked if I honestly think the top 5 of the MAC vs the top 5 of Big 10, the MAC would win, yea, because they have before in the past thats why, and some games this year as well.

I did not ask it, you stated it. I think maybe the MAC can compete, but they would not win. At the very end of the year we are talking about. That same PURDUE team that faced UGA would not lose to Bowling Green again. Remember, it matters how your playing at the end of the year. Is Purdue trying to win a NC or Big 10 title when they were facing Bowling Green? I do know for a fact the USC coaches do not throw all their stuff in the OOC games because their goal is to win the PAC 10 and prepare to win the pac 10. That means playing different players in the OOC games and experimenting/evaluating because you cannot experiment in conference play. Get it? Maybe this is why USC is always playing their best football at the end of the year and has never lost in November in the Carroll era. I am not trying to take anything away fromt he PURDUE victory, but I highly doubt Bowling Green beat Purdue at full strength. Purdue did not put out their best gameplan to beat Bowling Green because there is no need too. Of course Purdue wanted to win, but at what cost? OOC play is time to experiment and work on things. Unless your trying to win a NC, this is how succussful coaches use OOC play.

I do agree with you the MAC plays good football. Hopefully they continue to succeed and maybe, just maybe, we will talk about the MAC like we talk about the BCS conferences. But nobody here should even mention the MAC in the same breath as a BCS conference. NO WAY.

 

[hellah10]

I would argue that these 3 conferences are better than the MAC.
BIG EAST
MOUNTAIN WEST
CONFERENCE USA

sorry to burst your bubble scott - but the last time CUSA beat a MAC school...it was October 28th, 2000, Cincy over Miami - the MAC handsdown is a far more superior conference then CUSA is...FAR MORE....and the MAC has the record to back it up...

 

[hellah10]

like to also add that not also is the MAC a good conference that can compete...they have to do it right in the middle of BigTen country....

Nobody likes to play the MAC in MAC stadiums....if these conferences are so far superior, then why dont they play them on the road???? I dont think Ohio St has EVER been in the Glass Bowl before. EVER

plus, the MAC has the best overall player in the country -- Josh Cribbs...and Scott, you havent seen Cribbs play...so dont go off about Mike Williams...cuz I know you will...

 

[The Big Tease]

I gotta say that.....I agree with Scott (for once) that the MAC sucked this year.

Miami, BG and Northern Illinois were nice teams, but other than that, there are some REAL weak teams. The bottom 8 teams of the MAC are probably 8 of the worst 40 or so in the entire nation, and 4 of em are downright pitiful (Ohio, Buffalo, Eastern Michigan, and Central Michigan) Looking at a conference as a WHOLE is what is important.

And it may be me.....but I think that the Mountain West was probably the 6th or 7th best conference......WAY ahead of the MAC.

 

[The Big Tease]

And Hellah....I dunno dude......you know I respect your opinions, but Josh Cribbs the best player in the Nation??? I have seen him many many times, and best player is not a tag I would give him. He is extremely athletic, and some team will give him a chance at the next level, but it aint gonna be as a quarterback. I think he will make a fine special teams player in the NFL.

If I have my choice between Mike Williams and Josh Cribbs......I think Mike Williams is gonna be a pretty damn good player on the next level......Cribbs, probably not (especially since he is now gonna be known as a domestic abuser and marijuana smoker)

 

[scott]

screw all of this talk about the MAC, Mountain West, Big East....The best confernces are SEC, Big 12, ACC, Big 10, PAC 10. In that order. So Miami Ohio had a good year in which they beat a good amount of awful teams, if they were in any of these confernces this year they would of had 4-5 losses. Do you think that they would stand a chance in the SEC playing Florida, LSU, Auburn, Tenn, Georgia, Ole Miss. In the Big 12 they would of had to play teams like texas, oklahoma, kansas state ok. state, even nebraska would destroy them. I mean, everyone was impressed that Rothlisberger would throw for 300 yards+ against doo doo pie state university. I wish them good luck, and it was a good story for the year, the conference did have some good ooc wins, however they were against major conference schools that were having their worst year ever. The major BCS conferences(excluding the big east except for Miami and a few players on VT, that is a disappointment every year) have so much more talent than any of the other conferences that this debate should not exist.

 

[Mr Hockey]

Look at the wins the MAC has had OOC the last 4-5 years. They deserve respect for that.

 

[The Big Tease]

Yea dont misunderstand what I am saying about the MAC. Miami, BG and Northern Illinois, and Toledo (kinda) were pretty good last year.....it is that bottom of the conference that is worse than many Div 1AA schools.

 

[gman2]

i dont even know where to start. these discussions are so difficult. you can take a statistical approach, then counter it with an objective approach.....and on and on and on.

(btw, marshall won that kansas state game without stan hill. thats worth mentioning)

anyways:

again- its a matter of what you consider a "good conference" to be.

every conference has their shit teams. the mac has a ton of em.

scott- heres where i think you have to tinker with your mac vs. mountain west numbers.

mountain west is an 8 team conference
mac is a 14 team conference

the more teams you have in your conference, then (logically) youre much more likely to have some true shit teams as well. thats not "defending" the mac. thats just kinda a "law of averages" kind of thing.

i would be interested in seeing how the mac stacks up vs the mountain west if you take the 6/7/8 from the mac vs the 6/7/8 from the mountain west.

im not saying that ever conference argument has to be based on "exactly the same number of teams", but i DO think that an 8 team conference vs a 14 team conference can distort some numbers.

as far as looking objectively at the teams- as opposed to numbers:

miami was very very good. not a stretch to say theyre comparable to how st.joes is in basketball or gonzaga is in basketball. that kind of good. the kind of good where they dont have to play a PERFECT game to beat you. they can make a few mistakes and still win games vs power teams.

bowling green and northern illinois were above average, but both weak on defense. theyre CAPABLE of pulling big upsets, but they have to play a clean game (unlike miami)

toledo and marshall are next in line. both had a good win each (pittsburgh for toledo and kstate for marshall) but for the most part, they were down this year