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dr. freeze

BIG12 KING
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Freeze is having fun with the other stuff.

Any opinion on this question?

didnt see your question, kosar.

I work with a guy from Iraq -- he was an MD in Iraq and actually had a gun on his head while he was an intern operating on Saddam's kid for appendicitis.

He is quite optimistic about things, and he had a brother killed by terrorists 2-3 years ago. He thinks Iraq will prosper in relative peace once these scum are weeded out. He says the people are proud of their country and should take over control once some degree of stability is maintained.
 

kosar

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didnt see your question, kosar.

I work with a guy from Iraq -- he was an MD in Iraq and actually had a gun on his head while he was an intern operating on Saddam's kid for appendicitis.

He is quite optimistic about things, and he had a brother killed by terrorists 2-3 years ago. He thinks Iraq will prosper in relative peace once these scum are weeded out. He says the people are proud of their country and should take over control once some degree of stability is maintained.


That's nice.

They are, of course, ALL proud of their country. Unfortunately, the dynamics of the three sects (for lack of a better word. Tribes maybe) make it virtually impossible for any sort of lasting peace once we leave entirely.

They will never be our friend. They will never be our ally. Ever. They simply can't be, for their own survival.
 

Sun Tzu

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Disagree on this one Freeze....when we leave it will be a disaster. Too many folks there who all hate each other. Oddly enough the biggest disaster in Iraq isnt GW but rather his daddy who should have finished the job
 

Trampled Underfoot

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The issue at hand? Dude you are stuck in 2002.

If I remember right, we had all the reason in the world to go to Iraq as we had threats of WMD's and noncompliance with a cease fire agreement. But don't let facts get in the way of your insanity.

All I can say is WOW. By the way you have no facts on your side. Just rhetoric.
 

kosar

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Oddly enough the biggest disaster in Iraq isnt GW but rather his daddy who should have finished the job

Uh, his daddy recognized what would happen. So did Cheney at the time, until he didn't in 2003.

How the f*ck would it have been any different if Bush 41 went to Baghdad in 1991? Same exact thing.

It's comical, 'oddly enough', what lengths people will go to, to blame everybody but the actual people who are responsible for this. Yep, blame Bush 41 for this. And Cheney , Powell and Stormin' Norman, who all agreed. :mj07: What the hell is wrong with you guys?

Your 'audience' is awaiting a response.
 

Trampled Underfoot

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You are exactly the reason why we cannot let loons like you put in place to defend the country. You hate our leaders more than you care about defeating terror. Nice try. Go watch Keith Angryman, he is about on for your daily brainwashing.

Don't worry. The end is coming. We can't afford to spend the money we have been spending on our empire. We can't afford it anymore. Empires don't last forever.
 

THE KOD

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Former aide: Powell WMD speech 'lowest point in my life'

Tuesday, August 23, 2005; Posted: 10:44 a.m. EDT (14:44 GMT)


Former Secretary of State Colin Powell presents the case that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction in 2003.RELATED

Manage Alerts | What Is This? (CNN) -- A former top aide to Colin Powell says his involvement in the former secretary of state's presentation to the United Nations on Iraq's weapons of mass destruction was "the lowest point" in his life.

"I wish I had not been involved in it," says Col. Lawrence Wilkerson, a longtime Powell adviser who served as his chief of staff from 2002 through 2005. "I look back on it, and I still say it was the lowest point in my life."

Wilkerson is one of several insiders interviewed for the CNN Presents documentary "Dead Wrong -- Inside an Intelligence Meltdown." The program pieced together the events leading up to the mistaken WMD intelligence that was presented to the public. A presidential commission that investigated the pre-war WMD intelligence found much of it to be "dead wrong."

Powell's speech, delivered on February 5, 2003, made the case for the war by presenting U.S. intelligence that purported to prove that Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction. Wilkerson says the information in Powell's presentation initially came from a document he described as "sort of a Chinese menu" that was provided by the White House.

"(Powell) came through the door ... and he had in his hands a sheaf of papers, and he said, 'This is what I've got to present at the United Nations according to the White House, and you need to look at it,'" Wilkerson says in the program. "It was anything but an intelligence document. It was, as some people characterized it later, sort of a Chinese menu from which you could pick and choose."

Wilkerson and Powell spent four days and nights in a CIA conference room with then-Director George Tenet and other top officials trying to ensure the accuracy of the presentation, Wilkerson says.

"There was no way the Secretary of State was going to read off a script about serious matters of intelligence that could lead to war when the script was basically un-sourced," Wilkerson says.

In one dramatic accusation in his speech, Powell showed slides alleging that Saddam had bioweapons labs mounted on trucks that would be almost impossible to find.

"In fact, Secretary Powell was not told that one of the sources he was given as a source of this information had indeed been flagged by the Defense Intelligence Agency as a liar, a fabricator," says David Kay, who served as the CIA's chief weapons inspector in Iraq after the fall of Saddam. That source, an Iraqi defector who had never been debriefed by the CIA, was known within the intelligence community as "Curveball."

After searching Iraq for several months across the summer of 2003, Kay began e-mailing Tenet to tell him the WMD evidence was falling apart. At one point, Wilkerson says, Tenet called Powell to tell him the claims about mobile bioweapons labs were apparently not true.

"George actually did call the Secretary, and said, 'I'm really sorry to have to tell you. We don't believe there were any mobile labs for making biological weapons,'" Wilkerson says in the documentary. "This was the third or fourth telephone call. And I think it's fair to say the Secretary and Mr. Tenet, at that point, ceased being close. I mean, you can be sincere and you can be honest and you can believe what you're telling the Secretary. But three or four times on substantive issues like that? It's difficult to maintain any warm feelings."
.............................................................

just a refresher course of how the US got to go into Iraq. Everyone trusted Powell. And Bush and Cheney knew it. They were happy to make him the fall guy and essentially ruin his career.
 

Sun Tzu

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Yeah, you mean like the Dems such as Biden and Kerry blaiming Bush for how they voted? Or the Dems who run Congress now but continue to approve appropriations for the War?

There wouldnt be a second Iraq War if we had finished the first. Is that so hard to understand? And if Bush 1 hadnt lied to Saddam's enemies and left them hanging when he bailed out hundreds of thousands wouldnt have been slaughtered.

I am pretty sure we would have been better off resolving a problem 17 years ago rather than now.
 

kosar

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Yeah, you mean like the Dems such as Biden and Kerry blaiming Bush for how they voted? Or the Dems who run Congress now but continue to approve appropriations for the War?

There wouldnt be a second Iraq War if we had finished the first. Is that so hard to understand? And if Bush 1 hadnt lied to Saddam's enemies and left them hanging when he bailed out hundreds of thousands wouldnt have been slaughtered.

I am pretty sure we would have been better off resolving a problem 17 years ago rather than now.


Huh?

That's simply pathetic.
 

Sun Tzu

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Your problem Kosar is you are a blatant partisan so you just ignore or slam anything you disagree with. I am more than happy to slam both sides as they are both generally inept and dishonest.

I slam Bush 1I which I bet you would generally love but since it doesnt suit your purposes here you just dump on it.
 

WhatsHisNuts

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Huh?

That's simply pathetic.

Matt: I always like this angle, too. Apparently, we would have really made things better 15 years ago had we kept going....I'm sure the 9/11 attackers would still be alive today, promoting world peace and Bin Laden would be the democratically elected leader of the Middle East Coalition for Understanding an Iraq would be the model for a perfect democracy.

Ridiculous.
 

Sun Tzu

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I didnt sya that but keep making things up.

There woukldnt have been a 9/11 if Clinton had enough spine to take out Bin Laden one of the multiple times he had the chance...but thats a whole other story.
 

THE KOD

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Matt: I always like this angle, too. Apparently, we would have really made things better 15 years ago had we kept going....I'm sure the 9/11 attackers would still be alive today, promoting world peace and Bin Laden would be the democratically elected leader of the Middle East Coalition for Understanding an Iraq would be the model for a perfect democracy.

Ridiculous.

................................................

gmroz

if you hadnt noticed skulnik is back and he is smart assing around.

please be ready to report his ass again.

thanks in advance
 

Trampled Underfoot

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I didnt sya that but keep making things up.

There woukldnt have been a 9/11 if Clinton had enough spine to take out Bin Laden one of the multiple times he had the chance...but thats a whole other story.

The only way there would not have been a 9/11 is if we didn't have 700 military bases in every corner of the world.....including the Middle East.
 

WhatsHisNuts

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I didnt sya that but keep making things up.

There woukldnt have been a 9/11 if Clinton had enough spine to take out Bin Laden one of the multiple times he had the chance...but thats a whole other story.

What was your comment about Bush 1 not finishing the job supposed to mean?
 

WhatsHisNuts

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................................................

gmroz

if you hadnt noticed skulnik is back and he is smart assing around.

please be ready to report his ass again.

thanks in advance

Scott: The dude went too far in that one thread, but was pretty much toeing the line of ridiculousness for weeks. I don't see any reason to get rid of him, I just want to see the spam reeled in. I have nothing against him.
 

kosar

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Your problem Kosar is you are a blatant partisan so you just ignore or slam anything you disagree with. I am more than happy to slam both sides as they are both generally inept and dishonest.

I slam Bush 1I which I bet you would generally love but since it doesnt suit your purposes here you just dump on it.


No, not partisan. If anything, i'm a one-trick pony these days (the last 5.5 years). The Iraq 'war.'

This is really the only thing I care about in regard to this election and the only issue I cared about in the 2004 election.

All you guys talking about taxes this, taxes that? Environment this and environment that? Global warming?

I give a f*ck.

This occupation has been the biggest f*ck job for our country since Vietnam. I said it before it started and I have not been wrong.

And as even *you* pointed out, it will end in chaos, just like Vietnam did. So YOU tell me who is to blame when that happens. Bush 41? :mj07: Are you retarded?
 
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