Black Friday For Online Gambling

Nolan Dalla

Registered User
Forum Member
Sep 7, 2000
1,201
2
0
Washington, DC/Las Vegas, NV
I have read many public forums over the past few days. Until now, I have not spoken out publicly on the Internet Gambling Prohibition Act, and the new version of this law which was attached to the Ports Security Bill on Friday night, although my views are probably foreseeable.

I do not believe most of the members here quite understand the degree of damage this new legislation will have upon the online gambling industry -- inclduing sports wagering, poker, and affiliated businesses such as MadJacks, et. al.

Before I comment upon this legislation and its detrimental impacts, first I should disclose that I have been involved in the poker business for more than a decade. I was and am the Media Director for the World Series of Poker. I was, until yesterday, the Director of Communications for PokerStars.com -- the second-largest online poker site in the world. I resigned my position based on legal advice. In 2004, I was the Editor of a sports betting magazine published by SportingBet USA. I also served as a guest handicapper here at MadJacks for four years. Please note that the opinions expressed here are not those of the World Series of Poker, PokerStars.com, or anyone else I have been affiliated with. They are my own.

Once this bill is signed into law (possibly as early as Wednesday, Oct. 4), it becomes effective immediately. This is why 888, PartyGaming, and others are suspending US operations, effective immediately. News has already been released that .COM (money) poker games will not be available to US residents. However, .NET (free) games will continue uninterupted.

I expect this to have a ripple afffect across the entire industry. Most of the larger poker sites, and likely offshore sportsbooks as well, will be forced to block wagers from US residents. Otherwise, all operators/employees are subject to arrest and prosecution if they enter US territory. Those here and elsewhere who have stated this new law "only applies to financial transactions" have a narrow and tragically misguided view of the legislation. It essentially makes any employee or agent of the offshore site a criminal under US law -- UNLESS they block transactions from US residents. In short, an executive from an offshore sportsbook could enter the US and not fear arrest, provided that company is not doing business inside the United States.

Hence, the impetous is on the sites themselves to shut down US operations and links to US clients. I expect that most of the larger sportsbooks and poker sites will follow this trend for a few reasons which follow:

1. First, many of the larger, more established compnaies will take a long-term strategic view. They will decide it is better to operate within the law, rather than break it. This is especially true for public companies subject to gaming law and regulations, such as Party, 888, etc.

2. Companies which comply with US law now will be in a better position to re-enter the US market, provided online gamlbing is eventually legalized.

3. While profits will decline in the short-term, these companies will be forced to expand into new markets (Asia, Latin America, and so forth) or perish. Those companies with diversified products (non-US sports on the betting menu, for example) will be in better position to make the adjustment.

4. I expect a number of rogue sites to pop up and circumvent the law. Clearly, some sites will emerge and take the risk of accepting US wagers because of great potential profit. Sadly, I expect some of these rogue sites will be poorly run and mismanaged and scandal will result, which impacts the entire industry, and this makes legaliztion in the US even more difficult.

5. I expect that most of the majors in the sports betting market will continue to operate through the end of football season (the most profitable time of the year) and use the 270-day enforcement discussion period as a grey area which can be exploited to their advantage. However, as arrests and prosecutions continue to make news (Caruthers, Dicks, etc.) some of the majors will be forced to confront the prospect of blocking US traffic. I also expect US officials to put pressure on some governments such as Costa Rica, Antigua, and others to regulate their own sportsbooks, in the manner that the US government is involved in drug policy in counties like Mexico, Columbia, and so forth.

6. I predict that most of the majors will conduct themselves in a professional manner, by refunding deposits and paying (winning) players upon request. More to the point, I am not withdrawing my money from any poker or sports betting account at this time. However, those sites which openly violate US law will risk eventually being targeted in international court. I admit to having less knowledge on this issue than any other. But I do not fear that well-established sportsbooks will run away with money. I can say with absolute certainty that the big poker sites will act in good faith. I think I know this industry well enough to express this confidence.

As to the impacts on poker and sportsbetting, this new law is going to be DEVASTATING. Especially for poker.

Consider that:

A. If poker sites cannot accept deposits from US players, that will kill 70-80 percent of the overall market. The question becomes -- is there eanough of a remaining market and enough contributing players in smaller markets to sustain operations and expansion? Perhaps. But it will take years, if not a decade to return to what has been the golden age of poker.

B. Online poker sites and sportsbooks will no longer be able to advertise (.COM-related services) inside the US. Media outlets will simply refuse to accept the ads. This includes print, television, and radio. Consider the implications. Thousands of new players were signing up daily at various sites. All of that vanishes. Sports gambling is less-relaint on advertising. However, the loss of the US market will force unforeseen changes in how these businesses are run, esepcially those companies that have multiple-gamling related products, such as BoDog, Paradise, etc.

C. Online betting sites will likely not be able to post banner ads and links to gaming sites, especially those based inside the US. "Aiding and abetting" laws could result in arest and prosecution for those who provide links to US residents. Poker magazines, online betting forums, and even MadJacks could suffer. I remain uncertain as to how severe this impact will be, especially at MadJacks. But for the hundreds of poker sites/sports sties and blogs out there that are dependent upon online poker and sportsbook advertising, many will go out of business. Once again, this might not seem a big issue to everyone, but these are the pioneers who are bringing in new poker players and sports bettors and when they dry up, the market skrinks and everyone is adversely affected.

D. Many sites use what are called affiliates. Persons who are affiliates and live inside the US will now be subject to arrest and prosecution, particualrly those who do not block financial transactions from the US.

E. The celebrity poker culture around star poker players will diminish. One poker site is heavily branded to many big names. Now, these players will no longer be able to promote their sites inside the US. Hence, their value and stature diminishes.

F. Big events like the World Series of Poker, which attract meany players and great inteerst from online poker sites, could decline in size for the first time in history. I am most sensitive to commenting upon this event because I still have a longstanding association with the WSOP. However, anyone who looks at the situation must conclude that the WSOP and major poker tournaments will be hurt by this new law.

G. Online gaming sponsorships of various products and services will decline. For instance, Golden Palace ads in boxing arenas, NBA stadiums, and on halftime shows will diminish, if not end completely. PartyPoker ads that are seen regularly on TV, on all stations, will fade away. Millions in advertising revenue will be lost by media companies (which begs the question (why were they not fighting this legislation?)

Keep in mind that these points are off the top of my head. I do not pretend to have a legal background. They are simply personal points of view and speculation as to the impacts of this new law.

Finally, there were some here and elsewhere who said not to worry, that the law would never pass, and so forth. Now, we see what happens when we remain complacent and passive. Aside from this being an outrageous violation of personal freedoms and privacy in this country, I view this issue as largely symbolic of the decline of civil liberties in recent years, and an eerie warning of what is to come. It brings to mind a bumper sticker I saw recently, "If you aren't outraged, you aren't paying attention."


Nolan Dalla
Las Vegas, NV
 

MadJack

Administrator
Staff member
Forum Admin
Super Moderators
Channel Owner
Jul 13, 1999
104,470
1,187
113
69
home
good post, nolan, even though i disagree with a lot of what you posted. i've also read a lot of print that is much more positive about the future of the offshore sportsbook industry especially and they make a lot of sense as well.

i'll tell you all one thing; madjacksports.com will still operate even if we lost all of our offshore sponsors.

if i have to go out and get a job to pay the bills at home i'll still keep madjacksports.com going no matter what. BOOK IT!
 

THE KOD

Registered
Forum Member
Nov 16, 2001
42,493
256
83
Victory Lane
Finally, there were some here and elsewhere who said not to worry, that the law would never pass, and so forth. Now, we see what happens when we remain complacent and passive.
......................................................

How can anyone say we have been complacent when I just heard about this two weeks ago.

They slid this bill into another bill on Port Sec that they know would pass. Thats the biggest crock of crappola I have ever heard. The money going out of the US just got to them. They want the money in their pocket not the offshores.

Frist and all his little puppets will be gone in two years. We need to vote them out and never let them back.
............................................................

Just got off the phone with a local I used awhile back. He said his business is picking up and anytime I need him , he is there.

So thanks goverment for taking gambling back underground where it can do the most good.
 
Last edited:

Rcxslam

Registered User
Forum Member
Oct 10, 2004
2,053
3
0
nyc
......................................................

How can anyone say we have been complacent when I just heard about this two weeks ago.

They slid this bill into another bill on Port Sec that they know would pass. Thats the biggest crock of crappola I have ever heard. The money going out of the US just got to them. They want the money in their pocket not the offshores.

Frist and all his little puppets will be gone in two years. We need to vote them out and never let them back.

I'm afraid its already too late...once Bush signs this Bill everything will change in internet gambling...
 

SBBC

Registered User
Forum Member
Aug 14, 2006
136
0
0
Is their a date set for when Bush is to sign this or deny it?
 

DOGS THAT BARK

Registered User
Forum Member
Jul 13, 1999
19,424
128
63
Bowling Green Ky
Don't know about the poker aspect of it but wagering sporting events on line will continue what ever they do--there are several ways to skin that cat.

---and if it ever came to Jack having foot bill because of sponsership bans--I'd be happy to contribute yearly fee in support and am sure most would.

I don't believe this issue is cut and dried yet anyway--too much money involved--believe we will see some litigation from other side of fence now--
 

yyz

Under .500
Forum Member
Mar 16, 2000
41,333
1,305
113
On the course!
i'll tell you all one thing; madjacksports.com will still operate even if we lost all of our offshore sponsors.

if i have to go out and get a job to pay the bills at home i'll still keep madjacksports.com going no matter what. BOOK IT!



Where?

:shrug:
 

yyz

Under .500
Forum Member
Mar 16, 2000
41,333
1,305
113
On the course!
......................................................

How can anyone say we have been complacent when I just heard about this two weeks ago.


If you only heard about this two weeks ago, maybe you should have spent a little less time worrying about things like my car, "mook"!
 

CWood97

Registered User
Forum Member
Jan 6, 2003
2,041
4
38
Michigan
...at least they could have waited until after football season is over. If my offshore $$ gets locked up, I'm going to be pissed!!! :mad:

Better find yourself a local. No more wagers after today.

What I want to know is, what the hell happens to my outstanding futures bets?
 

dawgball

Registered User
Forum Member
Feb 12, 2000
10,652
39
48
49
Call me an alarmist, but I have been debating pulling my money (small amounts) from the poker sites for some time now.

I have now pulled the trigger and will add back if things smooth over.

I saw Frist in a restaurant the other day. I really wish I would have said something to him now.
 

CWood97

Registered User
Forum Member
Jan 6, 2003
2,041
4
38
Michigan
I pulled my entire account from pinnacle this morning. Also drained my poker account.

It's probably okay to wait, but I don't want to be one of the guys holding the bag should any of these companies not have the cash on hand to payout all US acount holders. This could be the modern day equivalent of a "rush on the bank".
 

THE KOD

Registered
Forum Member
Nov 16, 2001
42,493
256
83
Victory Lane
If you only heard about this two weeks ago, maybe you should have spent a little less time worrying about things like my car, "mook"!

................................................

So you did call me a mook.

well your a monkey butt.
 

SBBC

Registered User
Forum Member
Aug 14, 2006
136
0
0
Damn - waiting to see if Bush signs, I am sure he will. I am going to pull my funds out and then if anything happens re-ante..
 

SBBC

Registered User
Forum Member
Aug 14, 2006
136
0
0
I agree with Madjack though about it just being more difficult to do it online ... read this ..

"Nowhere in the language of a bill passed late Friday night to curb internet gambling is there any mention of gamblers being prosecuted for placing bets or playing poker online. In fact, the new bill does not apply to gamblers at all other than to make it a little more difficult to fund online betting and poker accounts"


[edit external link to competing site:moderator]
 

stwoody

Registered User
Forum Member
Jan 15, 2005
1,775
0
0
No.Cal
This was a good read, but I don't think people should all run and withdraw all there funds out of the Sportsbooks yet. Remember what happened during the Great Depression..........if all the American players were to mass withdraw funds from these books, some people may be out of luck as a few of these books rely on American money to keep them afloat, a massive depletion of funds would find only the well managed and solvent books treading water. Most of these companies moved offshore to escape American laws in the first place, and as far as our government is concerned.....they are criminals. Do they care? Yeah, a few of them do, but they made that decision when they decided to get into this business. There are many sportsbook owners that made the conscious decision to never again set foot on American soil or face imprisonment. If I'm reading this law right, the sportsbooks are not the ones that should be concerned.......it is the American players that should fear intrusive government stepping into their lives and risk fines and possible jail time.



My old local made the move to Costa Rica 8 years ago..........he was backed by some big Las Vegas money, and he understood at the time that he was giving up certain luxury and freedom by moving......but the online bookmaking was so attractive and lucrative it made sense. He actually still comes back to the US to see family, but does it under an assumed name. I won't mention what book it is because of the obvious ramifications. In the long run, it was the best move he ever made. He and his partners have done very well for themselves, and he doesn't have to worry about law enforcement breaking down his doors, or having to deal with shady drop-offs and welches. He only allows credit to players now that were with him during the move. I have personally visited his operation in Costa Rica, and near as I can tell he didn't leave much behind. Although he does miss his family. My trip to Costa Rica was unreal...........just like a post card.......tropical drinks, beautiful women, golf, deep sea fishing, scuba! It was a ton of fun. I once asked him what he enjoyed most about the business......he told me he gets to act like a legitimate businessman. No secrecy, no constantly moving shop (when you've been compromised), and they provide a service to the local economy!

I don't know what this all means, but government should know better than to prohibit such activity. It didn't work during prohibition......it won't work now.

Books will figure out new means of deposit sources. Heck, most of my deposits nowadays are made through Western Union to a person in another county (not where the book is located)....as I decided long ago, I didn't want the IRS nosing around my bank statements.....the less paper trail the better for me! I keep my credit cards out of the loop to.

If Jack loses sponsors......then I would be happy to pay a suscriber fee to this website. I think Jack has enough loyal customers to do something like this........and it would keep out welchers like Worm and Viral!

One thing is for sure.......the books need American money to make a living like they are accustomed to. They will figure a way around it.............if not, I guess I move back to Nevada.....actually Tahoe is beautiful this time of year!

Cheers-
Stwoody
 

neverteaseit

I'd pound it
Forum Member
Feb 13, 2001
5,075
28
0
58
Sunny Florida and Naptown
I took payments from every account sunday night. i am sure i will get my monies the greek said 24-48 hours all other around same time frame. and they are going into my checking account. i hope this does not cause a problem. i don't forsee it but who knows nowadays.
 
Bet on MyBookie
Top