Boxing; 7/05/2008; Torres-Holt; Las Vegas
- Thread starter frank s.
- Start date
did you catch the replays? just before holt landed the ko shot, there was an unintional headubtt that snapped torres' head like a hook would.
- Aug 28, 2005
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Agree terrible turn of event for Torres. Luck was on the side of Holt, and anyone who bet on him.
I had my money on Torres.
I had my money on Torres.
so did I, Andrey. I broke even though b/c of Holt KD or KO prop, and either guy KD or KO prop.
I'd be inclined to change the result to a no-contest. It's debatable what would have happened, though Torres was clearly in an advantageous position, but it's undebatable that the headbutt altered the fight, and Torres would not have been left in such a vulnerable, semi-concussed position without it.
The fact that it was unintentional and not spotted by the ref makes the outcome legit today, but there is justification to change it to a no-contest tomorrow.
Bad luck for Torres backers, I guess the joke's on us, two controversial wins in a row, both against the deserving fighter.
I'd be inclined to change the result to a no-contest. It's debatable what would have happened, though Torres was clearly in an advantageous position, but it's undebatable that the headbutt altered the fight, and Torres would not have been left in such a vulnerable, semi-concussed position without it.
The fact that it was unintentional and not spotted by the ref makes the outcome legit today, but there is justification to change it to a no-contest tomorrow.
Bad luck for Torres backers, I guess the joke's on us, two controversial wins in a row, both against the deserving fighter.
i went back and watched it again(was switching between the ufc and the fight) and you were exactly right,night janitor....
he stunned him with the headbutt and then landed the big right hand....
a really tough break.....as was the incredible stoppage of castaneda vs peterson....i feel terrible for box,too...
whoa... been an awful lot of controversy of late....
he stunned him with the headbutt and then landed the big right hand....
a really tough break.....as was the incredible stoppage of castaneda vs peterson....i feel terrible for box,too...
whoa... been an awful lot of controversy of late....
Thanks Bro. Congrats to you as well!!!
There was a hard headbutt landed but on the second knockdown Torres cracked Holt with a foul punch after he got up so turnaround is fair play in my book.
None of us at the fight saw this headbutt. Not saying it did'nt occur, but we did not have the benefit of replay. I lost all of my bets. I am not happy. I shall return!
It happened so fast it was easy to miss, which is why Nady is being given a free pass here.
On the replay you can't miss it, there is no punch landed that could justify Torres falling limp into the ropes before the KO punch, it's clearly the headbutt that puts him out on his feet.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dtu3rdh1I9c&eurl
At 2:08 of the clip, Holt's head lands flush on Torres' chin in a right-hook motion.
Here it is in slow-mo: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5BKu9F1XoA
Jump to the 45th second.
What bothers me more than anything is how this is being completely ignored by the media. Everyone jumps to the aid of likable Soto vs villainous Lorenzo, but ignore this incident since the "good guy" won on Independence weekend, and it makes such a great story.
- Apr 8, 2008
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I had Torres (small) and couldn't believe the amazing turn of events. Holt has rapier reflexes and some caution is always a must. And it is true that Torres ate a tough headbutt which knocked him back into the ropes and left his head hanging like a swivel for the explosive Holt. Holt swung like he was playing T-ball (easy pickings) and naturally connected for a grand slam.:shrug:
just read fightwriter`s take on holt/torres and i have to say i`m disappointed....
i admit,i missed the headbutt myself in real time when the k.o. occurred.....but it annoys me when the media pooh-poohs such an integral,imo fight changing incident...an incident that had everything to do with the outcome,imo...
i could more understand the ":shrug: " attitude if the headbutt had occurred AFTER HOLT HAD STUNNED TORRES WITH A CLEAN PUNCH...
but,imo,the headbutt had EVERYTHING to do with the fight doing a 180 degree turnabout....
and for fightwriter to say that a rematch isn`t warranted after that flukey turn of events?......that`s mind boggling to me....
again(sorry for beating a dead horse),but this brings back grim memories of the castillo/corrales long count fight...
few seemed really concerned at the questionnable circumstances that clouded chico`s victory...i guess because chico was the exciting star and he was an american fighting in america...
much like this fight....
i wonder (out loud)whether holt`s people and the american boxing public would have taken this laissez faire attitude if the shoe had ended up on the other foot?...i mean,there was much hand wringing and consternation after the first fight...
i`m hard on germany(in particular) and the advantage certain foreign venue`s can provide hometown fighters....
i apologize to my german buds if i seemed unfair....cause it`s very obvious that the door swings both ways....
the homer hammer swings every bit as hard right here in america...
and btw....i won money on this outcome because i had inside the distance on both guys....it`s not just a gambling "whine"...my problem is with the inequity of the situation and the lack of indignation from the american(and apparently british,given graham`s outrageous opinion)boxing powers that be........
how could they right the ship?....imo,a rematch is warranted...as soon as torres is able..
who wouldn`t want to see these two do it again?....it`s a no-brainer...
i admit,i missed the headbutt myself in real time when the k.o. occurred.....but it annoys me when the media pooh-poohs such an integral,imo fight changing incident...an incident that had everything to do with the outcome,imo...
i could more understand the ":shrug: " attitude if the headbutt had occurred AFTER HOLT HAD STUNNED TORRES WITH A CLEAN PUNCH...
but,imo,the headbutt had EVERYTHING to do with the fight doing a 180 degree turnabout....
and for fightwriter to say that a rematch isn`t warranted after that flukey turn of events?......that`s mind boggling to me....
again(sorry for beating a dead horse),but this brings back grim memories of the castillo/corrales long count fight...
few seemed really concerned at the questionnable circumstances that clouded chico`s victory...i guess because chico was the exciting star and he was an american fighting in america...
much like this fight....
i wonder (out loud)whether holt`s people and the american boxing public would have taken this laissez faire attitude if the shoe had ended up on the other foot?...i mean,there was much hand wringing and consternation after the first fight...
i`m hard on germany(in particular) and the advantage certain foreign venue`s can provide hometown fighters....
i apologize to my german buds if i seemed unfair....cause it`s very obvious that the door swings both ways....
the homer hammer swings every bit as hard right here in america...
and btw....i won money on this outcome because i had inside the distance on both guys....it`s not just a gambling "whine"...my problem is with the inequity of the situation and the lack of indignation from the american(and apparently british,given graham`s outrageous opinion)boxing powers that be........
how could they right the ship?....imo,a rematch is warranted...as soon as torres is able..
who wouldn`t want to see these two do it again?....it`s a no-brainer...
Excellent post gardenweasel, you're not whining at all. You're being fair and posting the truth, while the media prefers the sensational story. Graham's report was terribly biased, I actually emailed Graham and was disappointed in his reply. Not much else one can do.
I started a thread about how the media was ignoring it on a boxing forum, we couldn't find a single media outlet that analysed the butt to the degree it deserved. Many credited Holt with a phantom right hand, or deemed it an incidental clash of heads that had no effect. The fans didn't brush off the incident as quickly.
http://www.eastsideboxing.com/forum/showthread.php?t=75263
I started a thread about how the media was ignoring it on a boxing forum, we couldn't find a single media outlet that analysed the butt to the degree it deserved. Many credited Holt with a phantom right hand, or deemed it an incidental clash of heads that had no effect. The fans didn't brush off the incident as quickly.
http://www.eastsideboxing.com/forum/showthread.php?t=75263
night janitor...isn`t it ashamed that some people can`t carry a rational,objective thought in an airtight thremos?...
i watched it 3 times and if that headbutt didn`t "freeze" torres,than i need my eyes checked...
remember how i was chirping after the fight and you mentioned the headbutt?...i said "what headbutt?".....
well,after re-watching it,i had no choice but to conclude that the head was crucial in the turn of events in that fight...intentional or not....
a rubbermatch should be mandatory...
as for some of those num-nums at eastside,they obviously need to open an "idiot containment room" at that site...
you were dead on about the butt influencuing the outcome,imo...
i watched it 3 times and if that headbutt didn`t "freeze" torres,than i need my eyes checked...
remember how i was chirping after the fight and you mentioned the headbutt?...i said "what headbutt?".....
well,after re-watching it,i had no choice but to conclude that the head was crucial in the turn of events in that fight...intentional or not....
a rubbermatch should be mandatory...
as for some of those num-nums at eastside,they obviously need to open an "idiot containment room" at that site...
you were dead on about the butt influencuing the outcome,imo...
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