Bracket Thoughts

Hoops

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Oklahoma deserved a #1 seed, but in essence, it makes no difference as they were going to be aligned with Cincy as a 1 or 2 seed in the same bracket. Actually, they should be thankful they were given the 2 seed in the West. Instead of possibly having to play UCLA in the second round, they will have to face the winner of Xavier/Hawaii...admittedly those are both decent teams, especially Hawaii but neither have the potential to make a run through the region like UCLA does. Instead, Cincy as the #1 seed might have to face them in the second round.

Wyoming was awarded a berth primarily because they won the Mountain West regular season championship. Yet, they lost in their conference tournament, albeit in the second round (and they just barely got by Air Force in the first round) and have zero quality wins out of conference. Butler wins the Horizon regular season title, won at Ball St, beat Indiana on a neutral court, and beat other bigger name conference teams, yet they don't get the bid over Wyoming. Not to mention, and I think this should be taken into account to a degree, Butler has an excellent pedigree in the tournament the past two years. Destroyed Wake Forest last year, and almost beat eventual championship finalist Florida two years ago. They still have many key players from those teams. Their RPI was killed because of the weak conference they are in, but that in no possibly way should have taken them out of the dance, nor should losing the opening round game in their conference tournament. A 25-5 team with quality non-conference wins, regular season conference title, and a strong recent tournament history has to be in the tournament.

Someone mentioned UCLA should have been a 11 or 12 seed, if in the tournament at all. Huh? Granted, they are extremely inconsistent but this a 19 win team, went 11-7 in the most competetive conference probably in the country, played one of the toughest schedules in the country, and beat Alabama and Kansas handily. They are a no-brainer and I would say they definitely have a chance to be a bracket-wrecker as well as a darkhorse for the Final Four.

As everyone else had said, it is obvious that Gonzaga got screwed as a #6 seed. Quite amazing that their seeding was so far off. They should have been a #4 seed at the very worst, more likely a #3.

This years West bracket is the toughest single bracket I can remember in tournament history.

St Johns a #9 seed? They should have been in the 11-12 range. I know Missouri is one of true underachieving teams this season but they play in a better conference and had quality non-conference wins...and Tulsa tied for the WAC regular season title, played Kansas to an 8pt game at Kansas, had a super RPI, but they both get 12 seeds and St Johns a #9? Add NC-Charlotte to that mix...how they get a 9 and get placed much higher than Missouri and Tulsa. I don't see the logic.

The AP and coaches polls shouldn't be taken as an indicator as to where the teams should be placed. UConn was ranked 24th I believe and Miss St was unranked. That doesn't mean UConn should have been a 6th seed or something like that. They won their division in the Big East, won the Big East tournament, won 9 straight games to finish the season, played a good non-conference schedule, losing to Maryland and by 2pts to Oklahoma, won at Arizona. This is a team that greatly improved from the beginning of the season. I don't have a problem with a #2 seed for them at all.

Virginia at 17-11 and 7-9 in the ACC is more impressive than Boston College at 8-8 and 20-11. A win over Duke and a conference where virtually each team besides Duke and Maryland is assured 4 losses right off the bat (having to play both Maryland and Duke twice). But both teams didn't deserve a berth. Would have much rather seen teams like Butler and Bowling Green go that didn't underachieve the last half of the season.
 

Mr. G

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Good points Hoops. However, I don't agree with your opinion on Wyoming. Hell, they were seeded higher than a few of teh other at large teams so I guess the committee wanted to reward them for winning the conference. I think that's great because their conference is rated 7th, right behind the Big Ten. They didin't have any quality wins out of the conference but they played TT very tough at Texas Tech. Utah is an at large team that you didn't mention and Wyoming beat them twice. They also set a MWC record for most conference wins on the road. They may have barely beat Air Force but if you new the MWC you would know Air Force played everybody tough. They are a frustrating team. I think the MWC deserves three teams in the dance, and I'm glad the conference finally got some respect.
 

Hoops

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I was using Wyoming as an example as they are comparable to Butler in that they were regular season conference champs of conferences outside of the 'big' names, that lost in their postseason tournament. Yes, Air Force played some teams tough, but they were still the last place finisher in the conference, just as Wisconsin-Green Bay was. The final score of the Wyoming/Texas Tech game is a bit misleading, as Tech was up by 18 at half, up by double digits virtually the entire game, and Wyoming made a late run to make the score seem closer than the game actually was.

Sorry, but compare Butler out of conference (wins off their homecourt over Indiana, Ball St, Purdue, Washington) to what Wyoming did and you can't tell me Wyoming deserved the bid over them.

The question for me would be take either Wyoming or Utah (rewarding them for finishing one game out of first in the MWC but had a couple of nice non-conference wins, Pepperdine and Texas). One or the other, since San Diego St won the postseason title, I would not have taken both.

Mountain West gets three teams, but no Butler and the MAC only gets one team? I have a problem with that.
 

Mr. G

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No, I watched the TT game and TT was sweating at the end of the game. Maybe Butler should have been in, but all the so called bracket experts had Wyo in, along with the committee so I am not the only one thinking they should have been in. I guess we could argue about this but I'm going to enjoy Wyo. earning their first invite to the dance in 14 years. I applaud the committee for putting more stock into the regular season than the conference tourny.
 

Mr. G

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I agree Butler should have made the tourny. They won their conference and should have been rewarded for it. I don't think BC (8-8 in conf) should have made it. I like Dickie V's idea of no more than 5 teams from a conference make it to the dance, then teams that had good regular seasons such as Butler or Bowling Green would be in.
 
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NEWP2112

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Hoops, Big Sooner fan here, and after I calmed down and really looked at the draw, I agree with you that OU being slighted for the #1 seed Is really not so bad. Xavier and Hawaii are both tough teams, but playing UCLA as a #8 seed? No thanks! Look at the other #8's, Cincy was done no favors. Here is what I want to know, If OU would have lost to Texas or got blown out by KU, would they have fallen below a #2?
Butler not being in is ridicules, St. John as a #9 seed, Huh?
I wonder sometimes if the committee is more interested in matchups then they are seeding the tournament correctley. The West is so over loaded it is crazy.
 

dr. freeze

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what gets me is that the selection committee uses one variable to explain one seeding/selection while ignoring other variables then uses the previously ignored variables to explain why another team was chosen over another......total hypocrisy

you have to be an idiot to make this bracket and i can't help but wonder if there is foul play in the air or some other motives involved in the process this year....
 

gecko

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I know the seedings in the tourney are not indicative of how really good a team relative to others, BUT you mean to tell me that the University of Hawaii gets only a #10 seed after going 27-5 this year, 4-0 vs. Top 30 teams, ending the season on a 21-3 run, having won the WAC championship, being ranked #24 in the final ESPN/USA Today coaches' poll and with an RPI index of #27? They even have a better strength of schedule than Gonzaga (!) and Western Kentucky, two higher-seeded teams.

I could go on about other "injustices", but this one stands out to me for obvious reasons.
 

Hoops

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Gecko- I think Hawaii was penalized for being in a weak conference, much like West Ky and Gonzaga. Losing to San Jose St and Nevada probably stuck-out like sore thumbs. I agree though, they are a very good team and are definitely better than what their seeding is. Should beat Xavier, unfortunately will probably have to face Oklahoma in the second round..not a good matchup for them.

sec guru- True, Miss plays tough defense, but if both teams play their 'A' game, UCLA is the better team. Miss struggled off of their homecourt and I would be shocked if they were to reach the Final Four. On the other hand, I wouldn't be surprised at all if UCLA made a deep run in the tournament..just a matter if they play to their capabilities or not.
 

Buck

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What's blatantly obvious is that the committee gave no consideration to conference tournament performances. Particulary, wrt Oklahoma and Ohio State. Ohio State is Big 10 co champ, wins Big 10 tourney and in the process beats habitually underachieving Illini team in the semis to earn what? A fourth seed and shipped out to New Mexico in the west while the Illini also get a fourth and play at home? I can't figure that one out.
 

ZMAN

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TWT, georgia a 3 seed is a joke. more like a six. Hoops covered most other notables, other than charlotte. what the hell are they doing in the tourney? who have they beaten out of conference? nobody. arizona got boned. facing a top ten team in round two? won nation's toughest conf tourney. st.john's won three road games. 2 were against va tech @ niagra. 12 seed if at all. b.c. just plain stinks.
 

wigs

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the thing i dont understand is how they decided who would get to play close to home and who didnt. for example, UT a #6 seed gets to play in dallas against BC, obviously UT will have a rather large crowd there behind them, while Texas Tech, also a 6 seed goes to Chicago and plays Southern Illinois, more of a home court game for the 11 seed. same with Cal and Penn playing in Penn. So now we have lower seeds getting IMO rather large home court advantages. that doesnt seem to be a level-playing field, does it? how do "they" come to this concensus?

i understand the other side, you want these games to be exciting and played in front of large crowds, so if at least one of the teams is close to home then the atmosphere will be more electric. UT's COach Barnes mentioned how few people were at last yr's first round game they played against Temple in the Superdome(a few thousand at tipoff)

But in the end I just dont understand how they determine who gets to play close to home. this seems to be a pretty big advantage, doesnt it? does it just rotate year after year? is UT gonna get shipped out to cali next year if they make it and play someone like cal since cal got screwed this year? if there is something i am missing please explain, i didnt get to see the interviews with the selection committee members so maybe they did explain that. just seems to me this is another way for the ncaa to try and pick who they want to advance in the tourney--

appreciate any thoughts--

i also agree with most everyone here on OU, the #2 seed isnt the real deal, it's the entire west bracket that boggles my mind--
 

djv

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Nothing new guys. Been a joke for long time. Would never say money has anything to do with it. Na!:nono:
 

gecko

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hoops -

I agree the WAC is perceived to be a weak conference and also due to the criteria used to measure conference strength. The loss to San Jose St definitely hurt. It does seem like most people do think Hawaii will pull off the win vs. Xavier, but of course who wants to play a hot Sooner team? I would have like to see, however, UH play either UCLA or Gonzaga in the 1st two rounds. Would have been fascinating. Of course, if UH knocks off Oklahoma.....eh, wishful thinking perhaps. ;)
 

Time Will Tell

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I`m glad i`m not the only one that thinks O.S.U got boned also Illini have been getting way to much credit all year long then to add salt in a wound they send those Buckeyes to N.M i really would like to know who these people picking these brackets are?ahh i`m done b%$#@
 

Lightning

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The seedings are a bigger joke to me than who did and didn't get in, however, here are the teams I think should have gotten in. Butler over BC ... no doubt that Butler is the one team who absolutely should be in. I know they screwed themselves losing in the first round of their conference tourney to Wisc-GB but they still should be in based on quality wins. Bowling Green over either Wyoming or Utah. I agree with whomever mentioned earlier in this thread that when S.D. State won the tourney, Wyoming or Utah should have lost their bid. I do think the mid-major conferences deserve more respect but limiting major conferences to no more than 5 teams wouldn't be fair either as the PAC-10 and Big 12 deserved more than 5. The Big East is even weaker than the ACC this year and I was surprised they got more than 4. I would have put Virginia in over both BC and St. John's as I would take Virginia over both of them at a pick'em any day. As far as seeds, I'll start with St. John's. How the hell are they a #9 seed? I would have given them a #11 at best and more likely a #12 seed. We all know Gonzaga got screwed. I really hope they knock off Arizona in the 2nd round. Georgia a #3 seed over Ohio State ... another joke. Georgia is a #4 at best and Ohio State deserved better for sure after sharing the regualr season title and winning the conference tourney ... that's what I call earning your seed. Alabama as a #2 is also questionable IMO as I would have given Miss State a #2 and them a #3. Hawaii definitely should have been a higher seed but I think they will knock off Xavier and be in better position anyway than if they were an 8 or 9 seed. Oklahoma deserved a #1 over Cincy but are better off not having to see UCLA in the 2nd round as others stated. Charlotte is another team I thought maybe could have been left out and somehow they get a #9 seed. Doesn't matter though as they will not get by Notre Dame. Missouri a #12 seed. I feel bad for Miami (FL) who I think are going down and facing a team that should be at least a #9 or #10 seed. Also think Wisconsin is a bit high as a #8 seed. I would have bumped them down and Hawaii up. Anyway, I am sure I missed some but these are my opinions. I'll start a new thread for some predictions and upset specials if there is not already one started.
 
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