California's new single payer health care bill for 2010, SB810

[Spytheweb]

Here are a few facts you can consider:

We now have single payer, not-for-profit coverage for about 50 million Americans - Medicare, TriiCare, Veterans Administration.



This is from a thread you just started Duff.

http://www.madjacksports.com/forum/showthread.php?t=376691

First example is why the VA doesn't work and second is why Medicare doesn't work. Thanks for the help in proving the point of why single payor doesn't work.

Medicare does work. It has money problems because look at who they cover, the old and the sick. The ones private insurance doesn't want. When you get sick and will cost money insurance gets rid of you.

HR 676 medicare for all will work because the pool will be so large. Saves 400 billion a year and covers every citizen.

 

[Mags]

Here's another question for you, layinwood -

I'll reluctantly dive in here.....

If private, for-profit healthcare is so damned good, why is it that -

We have the highest cost per capita health care of any nation on earth?

A variety of reasons. Health care spending, by country, has a direct relationship to average household income. The more affluent people are, on average, the more of their $$$ they are willing to spend on health care.

It is also important to "risk adjust" populations - we are the fattest population of the large countries. We have a poor diet. We do not excercise as we should. This all leads to high healthcare consumption.

We also do a LOT of direct to consumer advertising for prescription drugs (try watching TV one evening and not see 3-4 ads for some prescription drug). THIS WORKS - people go to the Doctor and say "I want the purple pill". We overmedicate ourselves. Even our children - how many kids are now on some type of ADD medicine. Or acne medicine. Or allergy meds.

We consume a LOT of health care, because we can, and we choose to do so.

We have the greatest number of uninsured of any modern developed Nation on earth?

We do not have a mandatory system of coverage. Currently, we allow people to choose to be in or out of the insurance market. Which is how a capitalistic country should be. What we need to change is the ability for anyone that wants coverage to be able to purchase it. Today there are many folks who can't buy coverage, even if they can afford it.

We have the poorest outcomes (infant death, life span) of any modern developed nation on earth?

Infant death - don't have a clear answer for this, but I would bet a big part of it is due to the large number of underweight premies that are born - which is partly due to our social framework, where it is accepted and commonplace to have children outside of normal family environment. We have many children having children - our teen pregnancy rate is much higher than other developed countries. NOTE: this is a hypothesis - it is not based on fact. But the stats are true - I'm just not sure of the cause and effect piece of it.

Life span? Diet, obsesity and lack of exercise are parts of it. We also work very hard as a country. It is not unusual for some people to work 50+ hours a week, and get 2 weeks of vacation a year. Contrast that to European countries that have a 35 hour work week and 8 weeks of vacation. Stress and downtime play a role, although I have not seen any studies to what extent.

Go ahead, give us one of your canned Limbaugh responses.

Who is this "Lindberg" fella?

 

[layinwood]

Duff, I could give a crap about getting within your 5%. I originally said that you could call and get their best cash price. To that you said I was a liar. So my bet was that I could call any hospital and get their best cash price not that I could guess what the hell your surgery cost was. I've already called and left a vm for the pfc. I'll let you know the details tomorrow.

 

[Duff Miver]

Duff, I could give a crap about getting within your 5%. I originally said that you could call and get their best cash price. To that you said I was a liar. So my bet was that I could call any hospital and get their best cash price not that I could guess what the hell your surgery cost was. I've already called and left a vm for the pfc. I'll let you know the details tomorrow.

Here's what you said, layinwood -

"Now here's the deal. If I can find out the price then you have to leave MJs forever(or atleast make up another stupid name and join again). If I can't find it out the I'll leave. Deal?"

So stick to what you offered to wager on. Get their best cash price.

What do you want to do now - whine because I have written proof of their best price so I can fact check you?

Did you think I'd wager on "your word"? LOL!

If you can't get their best cash price, then you need to leave.

 

[layinwood]

Duff, I don't have a problem getting their best cash price. I was just saying there's not a point to me having to get within your 5%. You act like this is something hard to do. If you really want to get technical on this, here's how it all went down.

I said I could call any pfc and get their cash price. To that you said "that's a bald face lie." I then said I would call and see what the best price I could get by paying cash. Do you really think this is something that is difficult? My daughter's birthday is tomorrow and I have family in town and then friends in town for the UFC fights so I've taken a few days off from the office. When I get in on Monday I'll call the lady that returned my call from last night.

 

[Duff Miver]

Duff, I don't have a problem getting their best cash price. I was just saying there's not a point to me having to get within your 5%. You act like this is something hard to do. If you really want to get technical on this, here's how it all went down.

I said I could call any pfc and get their cash price. To that you said "that's a bald face lie." I then said I would call and see what the best price I could get by paying cash. Do you really think this is something that is difficult? My daughter's birthday is tomorrow and I have family in town and then friends in town for the UFC fights so I've taken a few days off from the office. When I get in on Monday I'll call the lady that returned my call from last night.

Waiting for you to put or shut up, you bald-faced liar.

Where's the beef? LOL at you.