CAP AND TRADE
- Thread starter RAYMOND
- Start date
yep! Is there another thread on this that I have missed? I'd like to get the takes from all the regulars on this.
read about it here.... THE GREAT AMERICAN BUBBLE MACHINE... BUBBLE # 6.... GREAT ARTICLE.... MUST READ.........http://zerohedge.blogspot.com/2009/06/goldman-sachs-engineering-every-major.html
Per Obama's budget director, CO2 emmisions will be cut by 15% annually at a cost of $1300 per family.
Last edited:
I call bullshit, it will cost more than 1300 per family, co2 emissions are carbon emissions, which are not pollutants anyway, this administration is the biggest tax and spend adm in the history of our country. Global warming is a hoax as it is. the bullshit machine is at it again, hopefully it does not pass.
Probably not worth it. The quoted reduction in emissions isn't enough to change the climate. Even if climate is DIRECTLY related to CO2 emmisions.
Any thing in this area that has no stop dead clause that prevents hurting the guys and gals under 300000. Is a none starter. And if nat gas for replacement fuel is not first choice. Is another none starter.
here`s some democrat comments from the house yesterday....moronic stuff...nonsense like "this legislation will reduce the frequency, duration, and intensity of hurricanes"...lol...
another dem said this would prevent us from "shedding any more blood" trying to take oil away from another country in the middle east.....
if it passes the senate,more business will fail or wont be able to compete with countries like china and india.... business will go there....
we`re already in a recession...the democrats will choke off any recovery with sharply higher energy costs.... they now own the $4/$5 gallon gas and higher electric rates that we'll see in the next year or so....
so what do we have so far in the obama administration?...we`re in the process of getting hammered with the greatest energy tax increases of all time, forcing a universal health care system on our nation(which is a single payer system of health rationing in which you`ll stand in line with illegals to get care) and they`re cutting back defense at a time when we are at war with an enemy that would like to send the head of your son or daughter home in a hat box......amnesty and open borders on the horizon(along with acorn helping to run our census operation) to hold political advantage...our standard of living will drop and this country will become poorer and poorer while china and india thrive...
the chances of 15% unemployment and a potential total collapse of our economy because of the unsustainability of all these big government programs in such a short period are real possibilities as long as these morons remain in power...
this is what happens when you control the media and the educational system...just look at all the drones we have on this site that have been indoctrinated so intensely that they could care less(even though in their heart of hearts they know obama`s driving us over the cliff)......
this country`s getting what it asked for...and in a strange way,it`ll be somewhat enjoyable when all these college educated flunkie`s realize the price of their ignorance.....
not that it`ll matter...they`ve been indoctrinated so effectively that they don`t really care if this country goes down the tubes...
Last edited:
Excuse Mr B but what does article in Rolling Stone on Goldman Sachs have to do with this legislation:shrug:
This is legislation is so bad will have no chance of making it through senate--as it barily sqeeked by ultra liberal house with 44 Dem moderates voting no.
The only good thing about it is it show you which politicians are looking out for their peoples interest or for their parties.
With that being said here is the house list--have a look at how your representative voted and make mental note of it.
<CENTER>[SIZE=+2]FINAL VOTE RESULTS FOR ROLL CALL 477[/SIZE]</CENTER><CENTER>(Democrats in roman; Republicans in italic; Independents underlined)</CENTER>
H R 2454 RECORDED VOTE 26-Jun-2009 7:17 PM
QUESTION: On Passage
BILL TITLE: American Clean Energy and Security Act
<CENTER><TABLE width="90%" align=center border=4><TBODY><TR><TD></TD><TD align=middle>Ayes</TD><TD align=middle>Noes</TD><TD align=middle>PRES</TD><TD align=middle>NV</TD></TR><TR><TD>Democratic</TD><TD align=right>211</TD><TD align=right>44</TD><TD align=right> </TD><TD align=right>1</TD></TR><TR><TD>Republican</TD><TD align=right>8</TD><TD align=right>168</TD><TD align=right> </TD><TD align=right>2</TD></TR><TR><TD>Independent</TD><TD align=right> </TD><TD align=right> </TD><TD align=right> </TD><TD align=right> </TD></TR><TR><TD>TOTALS</TD><TD align=right>219</TD><TD align=right>212</TD><TD align=right></TD><TD align=right>3</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></CENTER>
<CENTER>[SIZE=+1]---- AYES 219 ---[/SIZE]</CENTER>
<TABLE cols=3 width="90%" align=center border=4><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top width="33.3%">Abercrombie
Ackerman
Adler (NJ)
Andrews
Baca
Baird
Baldwin
Bean
Becerra
Berkley
Berman
Bishop (GA)
Bishop (NY)
Blumenauer
Boccieri
Bono Mack
Boswell
Boucher
Boyd
Brady (PA)
Braley (IA)
Brown, Corrine
Butterfield
Capps
Capuano
Cardoza
Carnahan
Carson (IN)
Castle
Castor (FL)
Chandler
Clarke
Clay
Cleaver
Clyburn
Cohen
Connolly (VA)
Conyers
Cooper
Courtney
Crowley
Cuellar
Cummings
Davis (CA)
Davis (IL)
DeGette
Delahunt
DeLauro
Dicks
Dingell
Doggett
Doyle
Driehaus
Edwards (MD)
Ellison
Engel
Eshoo
Etheridge
Farr
Fattah
Filner
Frank (MA)
Fudge
Giffords
Gonzalez
Gordon (TN)
Grayson
Green, Al
Green, Gene
Grijalva
Gutierrez
Hall (NY)
Halvorson
</TD><TD vAlign=top width="33.3%">Hare
Harman
Heinrich
Higgins
Hill
Himes
Hinchey
Hinojosa
Hirono
Hodes
Holt
Honda
Hoyer
Inslee
Israel
Jackson (IL)
Jackson-Lee (TX)
Johnson (GA)
Johnson, E. B.
Kagen
Kanjorski
Kaptur
Kennedy
Kildee
Kilpatrick (MI)
Kilroy
Kind
Kirk
Klein (FL)
Kosmas
Kratovil
Lance
Langevin
Larsen (WA)
Larson (CT)
Lee (CA)
Levin
Lewis (GA)
Lipinski
LoBiondo
Loebsack
Lofgren, Zoe
Lowey
Luj?n
Lynch
Maffei
Maloney
Markey (CO)
Markey (MA)
Matsui
McCarthy (NY)
McCollum
McDermott
McGovern
McHugh
McMahon
McNerney
Meek (FL)
Meeks (NY)
Michaud
Miller (NC)
Miller, George
Moore (KS)
Moore (WI)
Moran (VA)
Murphy (CT)
Murphy (NY)
Murphy, Patrick
Murtha
Nadler (NY)
Napolitano
Neal (MA)
Oberstar
</TD><TD vAlign=top width="33.3%">Obey
Olver
Pallone
Pascrell
Pastor (AZ)
Payne
Pelosi
Perlmutter
Perriello
Peters
Peterson
Pingree (ME)
Polis (CO)
Price (NC)
Quigley
Rangel
Reichert
Reyes
Richardson
Rothman (NJ)
Roybal-Allard
Ruppersberger
Rush
Ryan (OH)
S?nchez, Linda T.
Sanchez, Loretta
Sarbanes
Schakowsky
Schauer
Schiff
Schrader
Schwartz
Scott (GA)
Scott (VA)
Serrano
Sestak
Shea-Porter
Sherman
Shuler
Sires
Skelton
Slaughter
Smith (NJ)
Smith (WA)
Snyder
Space
Speier
Spratt
Stupak
Sutton
Tauscher
Teague
Thompson (CA)
Thompson (MS)
Tierney
Titus
Tonko
Towns
Tsongas
Van Hollen
Vel?zquez
Walz
Wasserman Schultz
Waters
Watson
Watt
Waxman
Weiner
Welch
Wexler
Woolsey
Wu
Yarmuth
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
<CENTER>[SIZE=+1]---- NOES 212 ---[/SIZE]</CENTER>
<TABLE cols=3 width="90%" align=center border=4><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top width="33.3%">Aderholt
Akin
Alexander
Altmire
Arcuri
Austria
Bachmann
Bachus
Barrett (SC)
Barrow
Bartlett
Barton (TX)
Berry
Biggert
Bilbray
Bilirakis
Bishop (UT)
Blackburn
Blunt
Boehner
Bonner
Boozman
Boren
Boustany
Brady (TX)
Bright
Broun (GA)
Brown (SC)
Brown-Waite, Ginny
Buchanan
Burgess
Burton (IN)
Buyer
Calvert
Camp
Campbell
Cantor
Cao
Capito
Carney
Carter
Cassidy
Chaffetz
Childers
Coble
Coffman (CO)
Cole
Conaway
Costa
Costello
Crenshaw
Culberson
Dahlkemper
Davis (AL)
Davis (KY)
Davis (TN)
Deal (GA)
DeFazio
Dent
Diaz-Balart, L.
Diaz-Balart, M.
Donnelly (IN)
Dreier
Duncan
Edwards (TX)
Ehlers
Ellsworth
Emerson
Fallin
Fleming
Forbes
</TD><TD vAlign=top width="33.3%">Fortenberry
Foster
Foxx
Franks (AZ)
Frelinghuysen
Gallegly
Garrett (NJ)
Gerlach
Gingrey (GA)
Gohmert
Goodlatte
Granger
Graves
Griffith
Guthrie
Hall (TX)
Harper
Hastings (WA)
Heller
Hensarling
Herger
Herseth Sandlin
Hoekstra
Holden
Hunter
Inglis
Issa
Jenkins
Johnson (IL)
Johnson, Sam
Jones
Jordan (OH)
King (IA)
King (NY)
Kingston
Kirkpatrick (AZ)
Kissell
Kline (MN)
Kucinich
Lamborn
Latham
LaTourette
Latta
Lee (NY)
Lewis (CA)
Linder
Lucas
Luetkemeyer
Lummis
Lungren, Daniel E.
Mack
Manzullo
Marchant
Marshall
Massa
Matheson
McCarthy (CA)
McCaul
McClintock
McCotter
McHenry
McIntyre
McKeon
McMorris Rodgers
Melancon
Mica
Miller (FL)
Miller (MI)
Miller, Gary
Minnick
Mitchell
</TD><TD vAlign=top width="33.3%">Mollohan
Moran (KS)
Murphy, Tim
Myrick
Neugebauer
Nunes
Nye
Olson
Ortiz
Paul
Paulsen
Pence
Petri
Pitts
Platts
Poe (TX)
Pomeroy
Posey
Price (GA)
Putnam
Radanovich
Rahall
Rehberg
Rodriguez
Roe (TN)
Rogers (AL)
Rogers (KY)
Rogers (MI)
Rohrabacher
Rooney
Ros-Lehtinen
Roskam
Ross
Royce
Ryan (WI)
Salazar
Scalise
Schmidt
Schock
Sensenbrenner
Sessions
Shadegg
Shimkus
Shuster
Simpson
Smith (NE)
Smith (TX)
Souder
Stark
Stearns
Tanner
Taylor
Terry
Thompson (PA)
Thornberry
Tiahrt
Tiberi
Turner
Upton
Visclosky
Walden
Wamp
Westmoreland
Whitfield
Wilson (OH)
Wilson (SC)
Wittman
Wolf
Young (AK)
Young (FL)
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
<CENTER>[SIZE=+1]---- NOT VOTING 3 ---[/SIZE]</CENTER>
<TABLE cols=3 width="90%" align=center border=4><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top width="33.3%">Flake
</TD><TD vAlign=top width="33.3%">Hastings (FL)
</TD><TD vAlign=top width="33.3%">Sullivan
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
bock:
?We can?t drive our SUVs and eat as much as we want and keep our homes on 72 degrees at all times ? and then just expect that ""other countries"" are going to say OK,? Obama said.
?That?s not leadership. That?s not going to happen,? he added.
/unchecked liberalism run amok....
?We can?t drive our SUVs and eat as much as we want and keep our homes on 72 degrees at all times ? and then just expect that ""other countries"" are going to say OK,? Obama said.
?That?s not leadership. That?s not going to happen,? he added.
/unchecked liberalism run amok....
The posts from Weezil (the sky is falling) and DTB (the Dems are divided) were predictable. Neither have read a single page of the 1200 page bill but both are convinced it's just another liberal conspiracy to bring down this nation.
The reason 44 Dems voted against the bill is because some Dems believe the bill isn't progressive enough and it's been watered down to try to garner votes (What else is new?). Without having read the 1200 hundred page bill myself, I can only say that in principle, I'm in favor of a bill that supports clean energy and is designed to reduce CO2 emissions by 17% by 2020 and by 83% by 2050. But unlike Weezil and DTB, I'd actually have to read the bill to know whether I could support it or not.
The reason 44 Dems voted against the bill is because some Dems believe the bill isn't progressive enough and it's been watered down to try to garner votes (What else is new?). Without having read the 1200 hundred page bill myself, I can only say that in principle, I'm in favor of a bill that supports clean energy and is designed to reduce CO2 emissions by 17% by 2020 and by 83% by 2050. But unlike Weezil and DTB, I'd actually have to read the bill to know whether I could support it or not.
Mr Trench acting all measured and composed in his response. I guarantee you eat everything with a smile they put in front of you. :142smilie
DTB, if you read the section bubble #6 and don't think it has anything to do with this legislation then so be it.... Plus the fact, the article in this so called liberal rag has many talking points against Obama....don't wet yourself if you do read it..... go figure...
Last edited:
Obama giving Liberals a bad name is like Bush giving Conservatives a bad name. Obama, like Bush, seems to be morphing into a Neocon. Hopefully the Dems will figure it our sooner than the Republicans did. I don't know much about this bill but it seems to cloaked in silence.
I have not had time to look this over, but I do see the point of this increasing energy costs and it seems too big for our current economic scenario. Of course, we have seen what unchecked and propped up energy companies thanks to Bush and Cheney energy legislation has done to help the environment and work towards energy independence and green power, nothing but record profits and securing Iraqi oil for private oil companies... so, in some ways the legislation should better prepare our country for a better economic future if it takes us in new directions for different types of energy.
i knew we get a bush comment...nice try,,,this is on obama...he owns it...
no,none of us have read the entire bill...most in the house haven`t read it...particularly when they tacked on a 300 page amendment at 3 a.m. of the day of the vote...that`s the whole idea...that was the idea in expanding the economic stimuluis without oversight...
rush!..rush!..rush!..don`t think it through...the obama drones will swallow it hook,line and sinker...
obama is obviously throwing all this socialist garbage against the wall in such a short period of time to overwhelm the opposition...nobody inside or out of gov`t can digest and understand all this crap in such short order.. ...
and it`s a disaster in the making...the only rational explanation is that bock believes that when there is no economy, we'll have very little pollution....
but,anybody that`s even remotely cogent understands that enacting any cap and trade scheme that doesn't at least include china and india is just so much pointless economic suicide on our part...
i`m actually beginning to think obama may just be that manchurian candidate after all....
no,none of us have read the entire bill...most in the house haven`t read it...particularly when they tacked on a 300 page amendment at 3 a.m. of the day of the vote...that`s the whole idea...that was the idea in expanding the economic stimuluis without oversight...
rush!..rush!..rush!..don`t think it through...the obama drones will swallow it hook,line and sinker...
obama is obviously throwing all this socialist garbage against the wall in such a short period of time to overwhelm the opposition...nobody inside or out of gov`t can digest and understand all this crap in such short order.. ...
and it`s a disaster in the making...the only rational explanation is that bock believes that when there is no economy, we'll have very little pollution....
but,anybody that`s even remotely cogent understands that enacting any cap and trade scheme that doesn't at least include china and india is just so much pointless economic suicide on our part...
i`m actually beginning to think obama may just be that manchurian candidate after all....
The world is not ending. And if this does work the yes,s are hero's. If not the no's get the prize.
I didn't say you haven't read the entire bill. I said you haven't read one single page of the bill. Yet you're convinced it means the end of western civilization as we know it.
If Obama pushed the healthcare industry for a cure for cancer, you'd accuse him of trying to destroy the insurance companies. If he pushed the auto industry to develop cars that run on hydrogen fuel cells, you'd accuse him of trying to destroy the oil companies. If he advocated world peace, you'd accuse him of trying to destroy the defense industry. If he advocated ending world hunger, you'd accuse him of aiding and abetting our enemies.
You have no credibility. You're simply a contrarian to anything Obama.
even the most hardcore marxist/socialist can`t enact all these economic big gov`t backbreaking programs in a few months...particularly on the back of a recession....
it ain`t rocket science....
leftist ideology trumps the welfare of this country....
i can now say i unequivocally hope he(and that idiot pelosi) fail....
btw...i know spongy`s laughing now....but that won`t last long when they start regulating methane emissions. ....that could put him in some serious debt....
spongy/"pull my finger"..
taxman/"cha-ching!"..
it ain`t rocket science....
leftist ideology trumps the welfare of this country....
i can now say i unequivocally hope he(and that idiot pelosi) fail....
btw...i know spongy`s laughing now....but that won`t last long when they start regulating methane emissions. ....that could put him in some serious debt....
spongy/"pull my finger"..
taxman/"cha-ching!"..
Last edited:
