"Cap & Spend"

mabus

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From Wall Street Journal

Cap and Spend
June 2, 2008; Page A16

As the Senate opens debate on its mammoth carbon regulation program this week, the phrase of the hour is "cap and trade." This sounds innocuous enough. But anyone who looks at the legislative details will quickly see that a better description is cap and spend. This is easily the largest income redistribution scheme since the income tax.

Sponsored by Joe Lieberman and John Warner, the bill would put a cap on carbon emissions that gets lowered every year. But to ease the pain and allow for economic adjustment, the bill would dole out "allowances" under the cap that would stand for the right to emit greenhouse gases. Senator Barbara Boxer has introduced a package of manager's amendments that mandates total carbon reductions of 66% by 2050, while earmarking the allowances.

When cap and trade has been used in the past, such as to reduce acid rain, the allowances were usually distributed for free. A major difference this time is that the allowances will be auctioned off to covered businesses, which means imposing an upfront tax before the trade half of cap and trade even begins. It also means a gigantic revenue windfall for Congress.

Ms. Boxer expects to scoop up auction revenues of some $3.32 trillion by 2050. Yes, that's trillion. Her friends in Congress are already salivating over this new pot of gold. The way Congress works, the most vicious floor fights won't be over whether this is a useful tax to create, but over who gets what portion of the spoils. In a conference call with reporters last Thursday, Massachusetts Senator John Kerry explained that he was disturbed by the effects of global warming on "crustaceans" and so would be pursuing changes to ensure that New England lobsters benefit from some of the loot.

Of course most of the money will go to human constituencies, especially those with the most political clout. In the Boxer plan, revenues are allocated down to the last dime over the next half-century. Thus $802 billion would go for "relief" for low-income taxpayers, to offset the higher cost of lighting homes or driving cars. Ms. Boxer will judge if you earn too much to qualify.

There's also $190 billion to fund training for "green-collar jobs," which are supposed to replace the jobs that will be lost in carbon-emitting industries. Another $288 billion would go to "wildlife adaptation," whatever that means, and another $237 billion to the states for the same goal. Some $342 billion would be spent on international aid, $171 billion for mass transit, and untold billions for alternative energy and research ? and we're just starting.

Ms. Boxer would only auction about half of the carbon allowances; she reserves the rest for politically favored supplicants. These groups might be Indian tribes (big campaign donors!), or states rewarded for "taking the lead" on emissions reductions like Ms. Boxer's California. Those lucky winners would be able to sell those allowances for cash. The Senator estimates that the value of the handouts totals $3.42 trillion. For those keeping track, that's more than $6.7 trillion in revenue handouts so far.

The bill also tries to buy off businesses that might otherwise try to defeat the legislation. Thus carbon-heavy manufacturers like steel and cement will get $213 billion "to help them adjust," while fossil-fuel utilities will get $307 billion in "transition assistance." No less than $34 billion is headed to oil refiners. Given that all of these folks have powerful Senate friends, they will probably extract a larger ransom if cap and trade ever does become law.

If Congress is really going to impose this carbon tax in the name of saving mankind, the least it should do is forego all of this political largesse. In return for this new tax, Congress should cut taxes elsewhere to make the bill revenue neutral. A "tax swap" would offset the deadweight taxes that impede growth and reduce employment. All the more so because even the cap-and-trade friendly Environmental Protection Agency estimates that the bill would reduce GDP between $1 trillion and $2.8 trillion by 2050.

Most liberal economists favor using the money to reduce the payroll tax. That has the disadvantage politically of adding Social Security into the debate. A cleaner tax swap would compensate for the new tax on business by cutting taxes on investment ? such as slashing the 35% U.S. corporate rate that is the second highest in the developed world. Then there's the 2001 and 2003 tax cuts, which are set to expire in 2010 and would raise the overall tax burden by $2.8 trillion over the next decade. Democrats who want to raise taxes on capital gains and dividends are proposing a double tax wallop by embracing Warner-Lieberman-Boxer.

All of this helps explain why so many in Congress are so enamored of "doing something" about global warming. They would lay claim to a vast new chunk of the private economy and enhance their own political power.

See all of today's editorials and op-eds, plus video commentary, on Opinion Journal.


______________
______________

Any comments on this piece of legislation?
It won't pass this time around, but no doubt this will be a major initiative in a democratic congress and has the potential to become actual law if a democratic president is elected, or for that matter, when either presidential candidate is elected, since McCain made global warming a priority; not sure of his stance on this bill as of yet, however.
Anyways...comments?
 
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Cie

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From Wall Street Journal

Cap and Spend
June 2, 2008; Page A16

As the Senate opens debate on its mammoth carbon regulation program this week, the phrase of the hour is "cap and trade." This sounds innocuous enough. But anyone who looks at the legislative details will quickly see that a better description is cap and spend. This is easily the largest income redistribution scheme since the income tax.

Sponsored by Joe Lieberman and John Warner, the bill would put a cap on carbon emissions that gets lowered every year. But to ease the pain and allow for economic adjustment, the bill would dole out "allowances" under the cap that would stand for the right to emit greenhouse gases. Senator Barbara Boxer has introduced a package of manager's amendments that mandates total carbon reductions of 66% by 2050, while earmarking the allowances.

When cap and trade has been used in the past, such as to reduce acid rain, the allowances were usually distributed for free. A major difference this time is that the allowances will be auctioned off to covered businesses, which means imposing an upfront tax before the trade half of cap and trade even begins. It also means a gigantic revenue windfall for Congress.

Ms. Boxer expects to scoop up auction revenues of some $3.32 trillion by 2050. Yes, that's trillion. Her friends in Congress are already salivating over this new pot of gold. The way Congress works, the most vicious floor fights won't be over whether this is a useful tax to create, but over who gets what portion of the spoils. In a conference call with reporters last Thursday, Massachusetts Senator John Kerry explained that he was disturbed by the effects of global warming on "crustaceans" and so would be pursuing changes to ensure that New England lobsters benefit from some of the loot.

Of course most of the money will go to human constituencies, especially those with the most political clout. In the Boxer plan, revenues are allocated down to the last dime over the next half-century. Thus $802 billion would go for "relief" for low-income taxpayers, to offset the higher cost of lighting homes or driving cars. Ms. Boxer will judge if you earn too much to qualify.

There's also $190 billion to fund training for "green-collar jobs," which are supposed to replace the jobs that will be lost in carbon-emitting industries. Another $288 billion would go to "wildlife adaptation," whatever that means, and another $237 billion to the states for the same goal. Some $342 billion would be spent on international aid, $171 billion for mass transit, and untold billions for alternative energy and research ? and we're just starting.

Ms. Boxer would only auction about half of the carbon allowances; she reserves the rest for politically favored supplicants. These groups might be Indian tribes (big campaign donors!), or states rewarded for "taking the lead" on emissions reductions like Ms. Boxer's California. Those lucky winners would be able to sell those allowances for cash. The Senator estimates that the value of the handouts totals $3.42 trillion. For those keeping track, that's more than $6.7 trillion in revenue handouts so far.

The bill also tries to buy off businesses that might otherwise try to defeat the legislation. Thus carbon-heavy manufacturers like steel and cement will get $213 billion "to help them adjust," while fossil-fuel utilities will get $307 billion in "transition assistance." No less than $34 billion is headed to oil refiners. Given that all of these folks have powerful Senate friends, they will probably extract a larger ransom if cap and trade ever does become law.

If Congress is really going to impose this carbon tax in the name of saving mankind, the least it should do is forego all of this political largesse. In return for this new tax, Congress should cut taxes elsewhere to make the bill revenue neutral. A "tax swap" would offset the deadweight taxes that impede growth and reduce employment. All the more so because even the cap-and-trade friendly Environmental Protection Agency estimates that the bill would reduce GDP between $1 trillion and $2.8 trillion by 2050.

Most liberal economists favor using the money to reduce the payroll tax. That has the disadvantage politically of adding Social Security into the debate. A cleaner tax swap would compensate for the new tax on business by cutting taxes on investment ? such as slashing the 35% U.S. corporate rate that is the second highest in the developed world. Then there's the 2001 and 2003 tax cuts, which are set to expire in 2010 and would raise the overall tax burden by $2.8 trillion over the next decade. Democrats who want to raise taxes on capital gains and dividends are proposing a double tax wallop by embracing Warner-Lieberman-Boxer.

All of this helps explain why so many in Congress are so enamored of "doing something" about global warming. They would lay claim to a vast new chunk of the private economy and enhance their own political power.

See all of today's editorials and op-eds, plus video commentary, on Opinion Journal.


______________
______________

Any comments on this piece of legislation?
It won't pass this time around, but no doubt this will be a major initiative in a democratic congress and has the potential to become actual law if a democratic president is elected, or for that matter, when either presidential candidate is elected, since McCain made global warming a priority; not sure of his stance on this bill as of yet, however.
Anyways...comments?


McCain, who is most likely going to win the general election imo, made global warming comments recently in an effort to pander to moderate dems who are hesitant about Obama because he is black. McCain's team realizes he will take the republican vote, now he needs only the white racist moderate dems to pull off this win.

I prefer McCain in this spot, so I will take the racist votes. Still, it's sad that in 2008 many will not vote for Obama due to color of skin.
 

AR182

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Still, it's sad that in 2008 many will not vote for Obama due to color of skin.

definitely agree with with this cie...but on the other hand i wonder how many are voting for obama because he is black....i guess we'll never know the true numbers...
 

AR182

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We are going to have to come up with some sort of small wager, Cie. Obama wins easily in November, IMO, maybe a hat bet or something like that?

reds...

if cie doesn't take you up on this...i will take you up on this bet...but i don't bet products so if you would like i would wager you anywhere up to $100.
 

redsfann

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reds...

if cie doesn't take you up on this...i will take you up on this bet...but i don't bet products so if you would like i would wager you anywhere up to $100.

I suggested a hat bet as that seems to be how those that wager around Jack's do it. I also would like to keep it a friendly wager, so maybe we could do something along the lines of $50? If Cie is interested in a hat bet and you are game for a $50 bet, that will be enough wagering on the election for me. :D
 

AR182

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I suggested a hat bet as that seems to be how those that wager around Jack's do it. I also would like to keep it a friendly wager, so maybe we could do something along the lines of $50? If Cie is interested in a hat bet and you are game for a $50 bet, that will be enough wagering on the election for me. :D

reds...it is definitely a friendly wager...i usually don't like making bets on the forum because something usually goes wrong...that being said your's is the 4th forum bet that i am making for the presidential election....& i am pretty comfortable that there will not be any problems....
 

redsfann

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reds...it is definitely a friendly wager...i usually don't like making bets on the forum because something usually goes wrong...that being said your's is the 4th forum bet that i am making for the presidential election....& i am pretty comfortable that there will not be any problems....

Yeah, kind of like the Pay up worm, you stiff, of a few years ago?
I've never made a wager on the forum until this year--YYZ and I have a 50 dollar merchandise wager going on what happens 1st--Ben Sheets goes on the DL or Milwaukee sees 4 straight days of 80 degree temps. I've got 4 straight days of 80 degree temps. And now we are on for 50 dollars on the Presidential outcome.
And I have no doubt either one of you two gentleman will honor your end of the bet in the event that the outcomes mentioned here are not in your favor, and you can be sure I will honor my end of the wagers as well.
 

AR182

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I have no doubt either one of you two gentleman will honor your end of the bet in the event that the outcomes mentioned here are not in your favor, and you can be sure I will honor my end of the wagers as well.

reds...

i sent you an e-mail...
 

djv

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I wonder or guess I could say think 2 out of every 100 Americans have any idea about what cap/spend means. This election will be about 4 dollar gas, health care cost. Low wages, Iraq War. This puts Reb's at disadvantage. I can see the slogan. MC Cain for 4 years of more of this BS.
 

redsfann

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I wonder or guess I could say think 2 out of every 100 Americans have any idea about what cap/spend means. This election will be about 4 dollar gas, health care cost. Low wages, Iraq War. This puts Reb's at disadvantage. I can see the slogan. MC Cain for 4 years of more of this BS.

exactly, DJV. Should be a pretty easy time for the Dummy-crats, even as incompetent as they seem to be in even trying to nominate a candidate.
 

AR182

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exactly, DJV. Should be a pretty easy time for the Dummy-crats, even as incompetent as they seem to be in even trying to nominate a candidate.

sorry guys have to disagree...i may be wrong but i don't see obama as an electable candidate...while mccain has a reputation of working with the other side...mccain will win the white house & the dems get control of congress....
 

smurphy

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Geez AR, you don't say. You are beginning to be as repiticious as DTB.
 

Cie

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definitely agree with with this cie...but on the other hand i wonder how many are voting for obama because he is black....i guess we'll never know the true numbers...

Great point, Al. Race is too big an issue 'this late in the game'.
 

Cie

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We are going to have to come up with some sort of small wager, Cie. Obama wins easily in November, IMO, maybe a hat bet or something like that?

I'm chock full of hats, but I will gladly wager something else. I mean, losing $50 bucks at the beginning of Obama's term is a drop in the bucket compared to the financial beating I'll take over the next 4 years;)
 

redsfann

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I'm chock full of hats, but I will gladly wager something else. I mean, losing $50 bucks at the beginning of Obama's term is a drop in the bucket compared to the financial beating I'll take over the next 4 years;)

If you really believe that, you probably need any money I will win off of you when Obama wins the White House in a landslide.....;)

I accept your offer of a $50 dollar wager on the outcome of the 2008 Presidential election.
 

redsfann

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Good morning Reds--
Would be interested in your reasoning why he easily wins.
Morning, Dogs...:D

Iraq war and McCain thinking we will be there for 100 years:)scared) and his perceived 'warmonger' status-which I don't believe, BTW..., state of the economy, gas prices, home values falling, the worthless US dollar(which will only get worse), the budget and current account deficits, etc etc.

And probably the most important one of all: many people see a McCain presidency as a 3rd term for G.W. Bush, and they don't want that.

But I haven't voted for a winner in a Presidential election since Clinton's 1st term, so what the hell do I know, anyway? :mj07:
 
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