"Cap & Spend"

[Tapir Caper]

Cap & Trade Is Not A Market Solution

By Robert P. Murphy, Economist

As the U.S. Senate debates climate change legislation this week, many have proclaimed the virtue of its ?cap and trade? system as a ?market solution? to reducing carbon emissions. Nothing could be further from the truth.

Unlike a direct tax, cap and trade is a European-style scheme that masks its negative consequences on the economy behind the rhetorical benefits of new government programs designed to help us. In truth, neither is good for consumers or the economy, but a closer look reveals why so many politicians find comfort in cap and trade.

http://www.instituteforenergyresearch.org/2008/06/04/cap-trade-is-not-a-market-solution/

 

[DOGS THAT BARK]

Morning, Dogs...

Iraq war and McCain thinking we will be there for 100 yearsscared) and his perceived 'warmonger' status-which I don't believe, BTW..., state of the economy, gas prices, home values falling, the worthless US dollar(which will only get worse), the budget and current account deficits, etc etc.

And probably the most important one of all: many people see a McCain presidency as a 3rd term for G.W. Bush, and they don't want that.

But I haven't voted for a winner in a Presidential election since Clinton's 1st term, so what the hell do I know, anyway? :mj07:

Fair enough reds I thought for a minute there was something about him you liked.

My reasons for think it will be much tougher on him in National.
-he will gain very little more black votes as almost all voted in dem primary
-he will lose many dem hispainic and jewish voters
-in addition if exit polls were just' half" right you'll be looking at 15% of Dems that said they would not vote for Obama period.
--a LOT more minuses than positives there.

Exit polls: Obama, McCain both have weaknesses

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080604..._exit_polls;_ylt=AsIDcP_Mx_1Gn8yUBj5Dey1I2ocA

 

[Jabberwocky]

McCain Pushes 'Cap-And-Trade' Plan to Fight Global Warming

GOP candidate promotes working with Europe on climate change, but only wants to 'encourage' involvement of 'rest of the world.'

By Dan Gainor
The Boone Pickens Free Market Fellow
Business & Media Institute
3/19/2008 1:40:08 PM

Presumptive GOP presidential nominee John McCain is using the idea of global togetherness to promote ?a cap-and-trade system? to battle climate change. He said ?Americans and Europeans need to get serious about substantially reducing greenhouse gas emissions in the coming years or we will hand over a much-diminished world to our grandchildren.?



According to the Arizona senator, whose opinion column appeared in the March 19 Financial Times, the United States needs to work with Europe to create a replacement for the Kyoto treaty.

?We need a successor to Kyoto, a cap-and-trade system that delivers the necessary environmental impact in an economically responsible manner.? He said America needs to be willing to be ?persuaded? by our European allies. McCain?s column was headlined ?America must be a good role model.?


Did I miss someone posting this? I am sure all of you are aware, and I am sure the neo's have no comment.

 

[redsfann]

Fair enough reds I thought for a minute there was something about him you liked.

My reasons for think it will be much tougher on him in National.
-he will gain very little more black votes as almost all voted in dem primary
-he will lose many dem hispainic and jewish voters
-in addition if exit polls were just' half" right you'll be looking at 15% of Dems that said they would not vote for Obama period.
--a LOT more minuses than positives there.

Exit polls: Obama, McCain both have weaknesses

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080604..._exit_polls;_ylt=AsIDcP_Mx_1Gn8yUBj5Dey1I2ocA

Actually., I do admire the man a great deal, Dogs. He is an extremely intelligent man, maybe even more so than Bill Clinton. You guys on the right can bash his associations all you want, but you show me a man without some shady characters as friends, and I'll show you a man WITHOUT any friends...
Yes, it will be a tough battle between now and election day with a TON of mud flung by both sides, but I've been singing Obama's praises since I met the man back in Oct of 2007. Now that he has the nomination, I'll get involved in his campaign somehow to see that he is elected in Nov.

 

[AR182]

Actually., I do admire the man a great deal, Dogs. He is an extremely intelligent man, maybe even more so than Bill Clinton. You guys on the right can bash his associations all you want, but you show me a man without some shady characters as friends, and I'll show you a man WITHOUT any friends...
Yes, it will be a tough battle between now and election day with a TON of mud flung by both sides, but I've been singing Obama's praises since I met the man back in Oct of 2007. Now that he has the nomination, I'll get involved in his campaign somehow to see that he is elected in Nov.

reds..

i'm glad that you found somebody who you believe in & who you are willing to help out with...i once felt that way about eugene mccarthy...

 

[redsfann]

reds..

i'm glad that you found somebody who you believe in & who you are willing to help out with...i once felt that way about eugene mccarthy...

Eugene McCarthy, AR? Why, you must be like, OLD, then.... :mj07:

Couldn't resist that softball....

 

[AR182]

Eugene McCarthy, AR? Why, you must be like, OLD, then.... :mj07:

Couldn't resist that softball....

yeah i am that old....:mj07:

and btw reds i don't mind throwing out softballs....i want to make sure that you still have a hitter's eye...:mj07:

 

[DOGS THAT BARK]

Actually., I do admire the man a great deal, Dogs. He is an extremely intelligent man, maybe even more so than Bill Clinton. You guys on the right can bash his associations all you want, but you show me a man without some shady characters as friends, and I'll show you a man WITHOUT any friends...
Yes, it will be a tough battle between now and election day with a TON of mud flung by both sides, but I've been singing Obama's praises since I met the man back in Oct of 2007. Now that he has the nomination, I'll get involved in his campaign somehow to see that he is elected in Nov.

I will agree on merit of intelligence and would add excellent communication skills--but so far thats bout all i've seen from anyone anywhere.

Great attributes for politician-con artist-salesman ect--

But I'm more interested in what a persons done--than what they tell me their going to do.
Can't think of one time I have heard O speak of accomplishments--its always what he plans to do.
--but fact of matter he used same spiel in running for senate--and -----

 

[lostinamerica]

http://obsidianwings.blogs.com/obsidian_wings/2008/02/obama-actually.html
- - ". . . people often wonder whether Obama's call for a new kind of politics is just empty words. Here again, I think he has a real record to point to . . ."



http://www.nybooks.com/articles/19651

- - "Aware that his celebrity is a likely source of resentment for more senior colleagues, he has moved slowly, seeking the spotlight rarely." He stepped into it in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina, when he made his first appearance on a Sunday morning talk show?after turning down such invitations for months.

- - "Which brings us to the second possible interpretation of Obama's equivocations. He really is not a political warrior by temperament. He is not even, as the word is commonly understood, a liberal. He is in many respects a civic republican?a believer in civic virtue, and in the possibility of good outcomes negotiated in good faith. These concepts are consonant with liberalism in many respects, but since the rise in the 1960s of a more aggressive rights-based liberalism, which sometimes places particular claims for social justice ahead of a larger universal good, the two versions have existed in some tension. Here is another passage from The Audacity of Hope on that decade:

"The victories that the sixties generation brought about?the admission of minorities and women into full citizenship, the strengthening of individual liberties and the healthy willingness to question authority?have made America a far better place for all its citizens. But what has been lost in the process, and has yet to be replaced, are those shared assumptions?that quality of trust and fellow feeling?that bring us together as Americans."

The Audacity of Hope confirms what many have suspected about Obama since he made his impressive entrance on the scene. He feels himself a man in a bubble?trapped inside political and ideological systems that are at once too small for him in their poverty of spirit and too large for him in their power to make everyone succumb to their rules. He wants to smash the bubble and assemble from the shards something dynamic and new. He believes that he is the one who can replace those "shared assumptions." But he may need a platform larger than the Senate from which to do it."


GL


****************************************
Don't believe everything you think.
****************************************

 

[DOGS THAT BARK]

http://obsidianwings.blogs.com/obsidian_wings/2008/02/obama-actually.html
- - ". . . people often wonder whether Obama's call for a new kind of politics is just empty words. Here again, I think he has a real record to point to . . ."



http://www.nybooks.com/articles/19651

- - "Aware that his celebrity is a likely source of resentment for more senior colleagues, he has moved slowly, seeking the spotlight rarely." He stepped into it in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina, when he made his first appearance on a Sunday morning talk show?after turning down such invitations for months.

- - "Which brings us to the second possible interpretation of Obama's equivocations. He really is not a political warrior by temperament. He is not even, as the word is commonly understood, a liberal. He is in many respects a civic republican?a believer in civic virtue, and in the possibility of good outcomes negotiated in good faith. These concepts are consonant with liberalism in many respects, but since the rise in the 1960s of a more aggressive rights-based liberalism, which sometimes places particular claims for social justice ahead of a larger universal good, the two versions have existed in some tension. Here is another passage from The Audacity of Hope on that decade:

"The victories that the sixties generation brought about?the admission of minorities and women into full citizenship, the strengthening of individual liberties and the healthy willingness to question authority?have made America a far better place for all its citizens. But what has been lost in the process, and has yet to be replaced, are those shared assumptions?that quality of trust and fellow feeling?that bring us together as Americans."

The Audacity of Hope confirms what many have suspected about Obama since he made his impressive entrance on the scene. He feels himself a man in a bubble?trapped inside political and ideological systems that are at once too small for him in their poverty of spirit and too large for him in their power to make everyone succumb to their rules. He wants to smash the bubble and assemble from the shards something dynamic and new. He believes that he is the one who can replace those "shared assumptions." But he may need a platform larger than the Senate from which to do it."


GL


****************************************
Don't believe everything you think.
****************************************

Then give me his record of bills he introduced not some his backers try to give him credit for just because he voted for it--

You might click on reference link of authors and see if you interpret same way.

example

author states--"There he was again, passing what the Washington Post called "the strongest ethics legislation to emerge from Congress yet."

Actual Washington Article
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/01/19/AR2007011901456.html
We've had our doubts about the commitment of Senate Majority Leader Harry M. Reid (D-Nev.) to a strong ethics bill; we've had our qualms about his conduct. But Mr. Reid, along with Sens. Russell Feingold (D-Wis.) and Barack Obama (D-Ill.), deserves credit for assembling and passing this package

See what I mean?