fawking idiots!

THE KOD

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StevieD said:
. I did this because I was challenged by Scott, the useless poll king, in a previous post when I told him when Bush was told about the attacks. Scott chose to simply call me a liar rather than post any proof of what I said in the post was incorrect.
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StevieD

now your getting personal. Useless poll king :cursin: :cursin: :cursin:

Now I can call you a liar after I proved that what you said was total hooly . Sorry StevieD dumbass.
Don't mean to get personal, but you owe me a apology.

KOD
 

StevieD

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Scott, just where did I lie. I said the President heard about the first plane in the limo, you claim he heard it when he got out of the limo at the school. That part doesn't mean anything. At that point it could have been just a terrible accident. But the pieve that you quote tells us that the President was told while in the classroom that America was under attack and he sat there.
Isn't that what I said wise guy? You Bush people really amaze me. You try to twist everything so it gets away from the point. Point is he sat there and did nothing for seven minutes! Even your piece says that. So what is your problem?
You will get no apology from me because what I said is true and even you admit the dope sat there for 7 minutes which is important.
It is because of morons like you that people like Bush get elected.
 

THE KOD

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StevieD said:
Scott, just where did I lie. I said the President heard about the first plane in the limo, you claim he heard it when he got out of the limo at the school. That part doesn't mean anything.
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StevieD

I dont claim anything. Chief of Staff Card said it.
Didn't you read what he said ?

You said that Bush heard about the first plane in the limo on the way to school.This makes the timeline way off and makes Bush look inept.
So you started off with misinformation.
Maybe you don't understand how important that is but then you think Kerry is going to solve anything to make Amercia a better nation. Ha ha ...dumbass

sorry for you lied.
 
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THE KOD

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StevieD said:
It is not comforting to know that now that the Dem's are leaving town we can go back to our unchecked subways. But I guess we can't afford that security year round we are too busy rebuilding Iraq.
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So protect your own subways. That was a special event handled like all major events have to be now that we aware that terrorists will kill us
if we let down our defenses.

Start a volunteer army to protect your subways there in Boston. Be a part of the solution if you want to complain so much.

Do you know djv ? maybe a cousin ?
 

StevieD

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Scott you are in a league by yourself. You may or may not know that Card's story about when the President heard about the FIRST plane hitting the WTC has changed more than Bush's reasons for attacking Iraq. It is too bad that you want to argue about a non essential piece of the story. I can show you a link where the President says he learned about it when he watched it on tv in the school. That part of the story is not important. The administration would love to have us argue about that because it doesn't matter when he heard about the first plane.
What matters is that he did nothing for 7 minutes after hearing about the second plane. Now, you may or may not think that is a big deal. That is up to you.
As for the rest of your statement it is really just silly. I don't think the other subway patrons would like me inspecting their bags. Don't you ever ask yourself why, after almost 3 years, Homeland Security has not secured the rails or the ports of our country? Maybe you put Iraqi's ahead of Americans I dunno.
 

THE KOD

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StevieD said:
Don't you ever ask yourself why, after almost 3 years, Homeland Security has not secured the rails or the ports of our country? Maybe you put Iraqi's ahead of Americans I dunno.
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StevieD

I was going to apologize to Tross for disrupting his thread, but then I remembered this is politics and
things can get out of hand.

I guess thats why Jack in his wisdom made a forum like this.

The ports are coming under intense watchfulness. The coast guard will not allow a ship to enter US that has not been cleared before and is not known to US Customs. They must be inspected and assured all papers are legitimate. That aint chicken feed.

And right here at Hartsfield Airport in Atlanta, they are tearing up the terminals and installing bomb xray machines of the highest quality. Progress cannot be discounted. I know our taxs are paying for it. You want to cry about Iraq and how much the war is costing us. What would it have costed Americans if we hadnt of taken out Saddam? Maybe our free American life as we know it.
Wonderful to think about dirty bombs and bio stuff. You should read the article I posted in the other poll thread.

Tell me again what Kerry accomplished in his last 20 years in the Senate. Nawww he won't talk about that nothingness. Maybe you can fill me in. I am still not certain I am voting for Bush .
 
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THE KOD

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StevieD

OK if you take back the thing about the worthless poll posts then I guess we can let it go.

I am not perfect but I want you to know I take the polls seriously.

Greatness only comes one step at a time.
 

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Scott, here you go this might explain some of it to you. Now don't forget these are not my words and if you find a link somewhere that disputes something don't go calling me a liar. I will be voting for Kerry for a variety of reasons. The biggest is because he ain't Bush.


This is from an article by Jack Beatty in The Atlantic in 1996, previewing Kerry's campaign for a third term against the enormously well-liked Republican governor, Bill Weld. It's worth remembering that this was thought to be one of the great showdowns of that year, with Weld favored. Subsequent events, however, in which Weld lost interest in the governorship abandoned it in favor of becoming Bill Clinton's nominee to be ambassador to Mexico, had his nomination blocked by Jesse Helms, then retreated to a career of white-shoe lawyering and novel-writing in New York, more than proved Beatty's point that "Weld's is a well-rounded ambition, not the distended mania for office that crazes most politicians."

On Kerry, Beatty has a few critical things to say: "What has he done for the country? What has he done, period? These are the questions people ask about Kerry. For a senator who has been in office twelve years, he's curiously undefined." But the core of the article is this:



Kerry accrued his Lincolnian gravity in Vietnam. ...Combat cost him. What it gave John Kerry was character.

"The guy has guts," Jack Blum, who investigated the drug-contra connection for a subcommittee on terrorism that Kerry headed, told me recently. "So many politicians are in the job so people will love them. Kerry is a throwback to senators like Phil Hart, who, even though he came from Michigan, investigated the auto industry. They run for office not so people will love them but to use the powers of office"--in Kerry's case to expose betrayals of the public trust.

In three investigations during his two terms Kerry has charged targets head on. He is a hero of a new biography of the Washington power lawyer and Democratic pooh-bah Clark Clifford. In Friends in High Places: The Rise and Fall of Clark Clifford, Douglas Frantz and David McKean depict Kerry as the only Democratic senator who was willing to investigate the Bank of Credit and Commerce International and Clifford's role in its mega-larcenies. "What are you doing to my old friend Clark Clifford?" an older southern Democrat asked Kerry in a Senate elevator one day. Kerry made no reply, but told an aide accompanying him, "You should hear what they say to me in the cloakroom." Not in public life to be loved, Kerry pressed on. The evidence compiled by his committee helped to close down a huge criminal conspiracy.

Kerry went after Oliver North more than a year before Iran-contra broke, exposing the connection between the U.S.-supported Nicaraguan contras and drug trafficking. And when Arthur Liman, the chief counsel of the Iran-Contra Committee, agreed to a White House demand that the committee be permitted to see only edited portions of North's diaries, Kerry refused to go along with the whitewash and persuaded the Senate Foreign Relations Committee to subpoena the North diaries. This did not endear him to his colleagues, who above everything were eager to avoid impeaching Ronald Reagan.

Kerry's staff did not want him to address the explosive POW-MIA issue--nor was he eager to touch "the third rail in his life," as one friend put it. Still, as a decorated veteran he had political capital on Vietnam, which brought with it responsibility. After exhaustive and emotional hearings a Kerry-chaired special committee issued a unanimous (12-0) report that laid to rest the harrowing and commercially robust fantasy that U.S. POWs are still being held in Indochina. The report opened the door to the normalization of relations with Vietnam.

Kerry was both a war hero and a war protester, a founder of Vietnam Veterans Against the War. He sees his Senate career as continuous with his anti-war activism. Then as now, he says, he sought to hold power publicly accountable. Making government obey the laws and its officials tell the truth, Kerry says, is a precondition to restoring the public trust on which any progressive use of government depends. Kerry's investigations can thus be seen as means to a liberal end: to put government on the side of the governed.

Puzzlingly, Kerry rarely mentions any of this on the campaign trail, preferring to recommend himself as a co-sponsor of the reauthorization of the Marine Mammal Protection Act.



This is the defense of Kerry's Senate career that is beginning to appear in the press: He spent it not on ordinary legislative matters, but on the kind of investigations that "put government on the side of the governed." The Senate is really an entrepreneurial institution, and there a lot of ways to make a mark, including investigations.

I've been quite dismissive of Kerry's Senate service, so I can't leave it at that. Two things to add: First, these investigations were getting stale at the time Beatty wrote this, almost eight years ago now. The POW-MIA committee that he did with McCain was a significant achievement, but that's at least ten years ago. As far as I know, Kerry has not undertaken a major investigation like BCCI in a long time, although presumably in a Republican-controlled Senate, its harder to get the staff and resources to expose such scandals.

Second, even more so than other Senate activities, Senators don't do investigations themselves. They are entirely about staff work. Congressional investigators operate more like Assistant U.S. Attorneys than anything else. They interview everyone they need to, set everything up, and then organize a media event -- a hearing -- at which the Senators ask scripted questions and express scripted outrage. The staff has to be extremely good, like Blum, quoted by Beatty, and the Senator doesn't have to do most of the things that a Senator normally has to do: persuade colleagues, understand the intricacies of legislation, sit through meetings, hang out on the Senate floor for a chance to offer an amendment, etc.

Still, it's the people who are best at that aspect of being a Senator, like Bob Dole, who tend to make weak presidential candidates, so Kerry's way of using the institution might be just the ticket.
 

THE KOD

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Newspaper Claims Moore Altered Front Page


BLOOMINGTON, Ill. ? Filmmaker Michael Moore's Bush-bashing documentary "Fahrenheit 9/11" has apparently upset more than Republicans. The Pantagraph newspaper in Bloomington said Friday it sent a letter to Moore and the film's distributor, Lions Gate Entertainment Corp., asking for an apology for using what it said was a doctored front page in his movie.

The paper is seeking $1 in damages.

A scene early in the movie shows newspaper headlines related to the contested 2000 presidential election. It includes a shot of The Pantagraph's Dec. 19, 2001, front page, with the prominent headline, "Latest Florida recount shows Gore won election."

The newspaper says that headline never appeared on that day.

The paper said the headline appeared in a Dec. 5, 2001, edition but was not used on the front page. Instead, it was found in much smaller type above a letter to the editor, which the paper says reflects "only the opinions of the letter writer."

"If (Moore) wants to 'edit' The Pantagraph, he should apply for a copy-editing job," the paper said.
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Was it Moore who said that Bush heard the first plane hit the WTC when he was in the limo on the way to the school ?

Oh no that was StevieD that said that one.

Moore said other stuff.
 

Trossi3389

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Scott-Atlanta said:
..........................................................

Secretary Card:
I was with the President in Sarasota, FL on 9/11. Just as The President was entering a room with elementary students, we were informed about a single plane hitting one of the World Trade Center Towers. The President and I thought it was a horrible accident--- a pilot heart attack or something. Once the President was in the room with the students, I received a call from the Situation Room that another plane had hit the second tower. I gathered my thoughts, deciding that the President should know, and succinctly -- two facts one editorial comment. I walked into the room, trying not to be disruptive to the young students and whispered in the President's right ear, "A second plane hit the second tower. America is under attack!" I then stepped back so as not to invite a discussion. The President waited for an appropriate moment to excuse himself from the room. We then gathered in an adjoining room to learn more about the situation. It was an unbelievable day.
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Sounds about right scotty. thank for posting this!
 

djv

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Yes either see 9/11 or get the commissions report. You can see how slow to react we were. Including the Pres. And of course Cheney just jumped in and started what ever. And of of course had no authority to do so.
 

THE KOD

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djv said:
And of course Cheney just jumped in and started what ever. And of of course had no authority to do so.
.....................................................

djv

seems like he had good intentions.

seems like he had good experience.


"Mr. Cheney also served a crucial role when America needed him most. As Secretary of Defense from March 1989 to January 1993, Mr. Cheney directed two of the largest military campaigns in recent history - Operation Just Cause in Panama and Operation Desert Storm in the Middle East. He was responsible for shaping the future of the U.S. military in an age of profound and rapid change as the Cold War ended. For his leadership in the Gulf War, Secretary Cheney was awarded the Presidential Medal of Freedom by President George Bush on July 3, 1991"
 

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Yes, let's give this crook another medal


Firm's Iraq Deals Greater Than Cheney Has Said
By Colum Lynch
Washington Post
June 23, 2001

During last year's presidential campaign, Richard B. Cheney acknowledged that the oil-field supply corporation he headed, Halliburton Co., did business with Libya and Iran through foreign subsidiaries. But he insisted that he had imposed a "firm policy" against trading with Iraq.

"Iraq's different," he said.

According to oil industry executives and confidential United Nations records, however, Halliburton held stakes in two firms that signed contracts to sell more than $73 million in oil production equipment and spare parts to Iraq while Cheney was chairman and chief executive officer of the Dallas-based company.

Two former senior executives of the Halliburton subsidiaries say that, as far as they knew, there was no policy against doing business with Iraq. One of the executives also says that although he never spoke directly to Cheney about the Iraqi contracts, he is certain Cheney knew about them.

Mary Matalin, Cheney's counselor, said that if he "was ever in a conversation or meeting where there was a question of pursuing a project with someone in Iraq, he said, 'No.' "

"In a joint venture, he would not have reviewed all their existing contracts," Matalin said. "The nature of those joint ventures was that they had a separate governing structure, so he had no control over them."

The trade was perfectly legal. Indeed, it is a case study of how U.S. firms routinely use foreign subsidiaries and joint ventures to avoid the opprobrium of doing business with Baghdad, which does not violate U.S. law as long as it occurs within the "oil-for-food" program run by the United Nations.

Halliburton's trade with Iraq was first reported by The Washington Post in February 2000. But U.N. records recently obtained by The Post show that the dealings were more extensive than originally reported and than Vice President Cheney has acknowledged.

As secretary of defense in the first Bush administration, Cheney helped to lead a multinational coalition against Iraq in the Persian Gulf War and to devise a comprehensive economic embargo to isolate Saddam Hussein's government. After Cheney was named in 1995 to head Halliburton, he promised to maintain a hard line against Baghdad.

But in 1998, Cheney oversaw Halliburton's acquisition of Dresser Industries Inc., which exported equipment to Iraq through two subsidiaries of a joint venture with another large U.S. equipment maker, Ingersoll-Rand Co.

The subsidiaries, Dresser-Rand and Ingersoll Dresser Pump Co., sold water and sewage treatment pumps, spare parts for oil facilities and pipeline equipment to Baghdad through French affiliates from the first half of 1997 to the summer of 2000, U.N. records show. Ingersoll Dresser Pump also signed contracts -- later blocked by the United States -- to help repair an Iraqi oil terminal that U.S.-led military forces destroyed in the Gulf War.

Former executives at the subsidiaries said they had never heard objections -- from Cheney or any other Halliburton official -- to trading with Baghdad. "Halliburton and Ingersoll-Rand, as far as I know, had no official policy about that, other than we would be in compliance with applicable U.S. and international laws," said Cleive Dumas, who oversaw Ingersoll Dresser Pump's business in the Middle East, including Iraq.

Halliburton's primary concern, added Ingersoll-Rand's former chairman, James E. Perrella, "was that if we did business with [the Iraqi regime], that it be allowed by the United States government. If it wasn't allowed, we wouldn't do it."

Dumas and Perrella said their companies' commercial links to the Iraqi oil industry began before the U.N. Security Council imposed an oil embargo on Baghdad in the wake of its 1990 invasion of Kuwait.

They returned to dealing with Iraq after the council established the "oil-for-food" program in December 1996, permitting Iraq to export oil under U.N. supervision and use the proceeds to buy food, medicine and humanitarian goods. The program was expanded in 1998 to allow Iraq to import spare parts for its oil facilities.

The Halliburton subsidiaries joined dozens of American and foreign oil supply companies that helped Iraq increase its crude exports from $4 billion in 1997 to nearly $18 billion in 2000. Since the program began, Iraq has exported oil worth more than $40 billion.

The proceeds funded a sharp increase in the country's nutritional standards, nearly doubling the food rations distributed to Iraq's poor.

But U.S. and European officials acknowledged that the expanded production also increased Saddam Hussein's capacity to siphon off money for weapons, luxury goods and palaces. Security Council diplomats estimate that Iraq may be skimming off as much as 10 percent of the proceeds from the oil-for-food program.

Cheney has offered contradictory accounts of how much he knew about Halliburton's dealings with Iraq. In a July 30, 2000, interview on ABC-TV's "This Week," he denied that Halliburton or its subsidiaries traded with Baghdad.

"I had a firm policy that we wouldn't do anything in Iraq, even arrangements that were supposedly legal," he said. "We've not done any business in Iraq since U.N. sanctions were imposed on Iraq in 1990, and I had a standing policy that I wouldn't do that."

Cheney modified his response in an interview on the same program three weeks later, after he was informed that a Halliburton spokesman had acknowledged that Dresser Rand and Ingersoll Dresser Pump traded with Iraq. He said he was unaware that the subsidiaries were doing business with the Iraqi regime when Halliburton purchased Dresser Industries in September 1998.

"We inherited two joint ventures with Ingersoll-Rand that were selling some parts into Iraq," Cheney explained, "but we divested ourselves of those interests."

The divestiture, however, was not immediate. The firms traded with Baghdad for more than a year under Cheney, signing nearly $30 million in contracts before he sold Halliburton's 49 percent stake in Ingersoll Dresser Pump Co. in December 1999 and its 51 percent interest in Dresser Rand to Ingersoll-Rand in February 2000, according to U.N. records.

Perrella said he believes Halliburton officials must have known about the Iraqi links before they purchased Dresser. "They obviously did due diligence," he said.

And even if Cheney was not told about the business with Baghdad before the purchase, Perrella said, the CEO almost certainly would have learned about it after the acquisition. "Oh, definitely, he was aware of the business," Perrella said, although Perrella conceded that this was an assumption based on knowledge of how the company worked, not a fact to which he could personally attest because he never discussed the Iraqi contracts with Cheney.

A long-time critic of unilateral U.S. sanctions, which he has argued penalize American companies while failing to punish the targeted regimes, Cheney has pushed for a review of U.S. policy toward countries such as Iraq, Iran and Libya.

In the first expression of that new thinking, the Bush administration is campaigning in the U.N. Security Council to end an 11-year embargo on sales of civilian goods, including oil-related equipment, to Iraq.

U.S. officials say the new policy is aimed at easing restrictions on companies that conduct legitimate trade with Iraq, while clamping down on weapons smuggling and other black-market activity.

If the plan is approved, there would be "nothing to stop Iraq from importing [as many] oil spare parts as it needs" from Halliburton and other suppliers, according to a British official who briefed reporters on the proposal when it was introduced last month.

Cheney resigned as chairman of Halliburton last August. Although he has retained stock options worth about $8 million, he has arranged to donate to charity any profits from the eventual exercise of those options, Glover Weiss said. Confidential U.N. documents show that Halliburton's affiliates have had broad, and sometimes controversial, dealings with the Iraqi regime.

For instance, the documents detail more than $2.5 million in contracts between Ingersoll Dresser Pump Co. and Iraq that were blocked by the Clinton administration. They included agreements by the firm to sell $760,000 in spare parts, compressors and firefighting equipment to refurbish an offshore oil terminal, Khor al Amaya.

The Persian Gulf terminal was badly damaged during the 1980-88 Iran-Iraq War and later was destroyed by allied warplanes during Operation Desert Storm. At the time, Cheney was secretary of defense.
 
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