Giant Heavyweight
- Thread starter THE KOD
- Start date
Like it or not, the "circus act" has always occupied a place, albeit a dubious one, in the boxing world.
Nikolay Valuev is a giant of a man, standing at 7-foot (by most accounts anyway) and regularly weighing in at over 320 pounds. Though many people may not be aware of it, he is currently the heavyweight champion of the world, at least as far as the World Boxing Association is concerned.
The former basketball player from St. Petersburg, Russia, who now fights out of Germany, won the title on Dec. 17 with a 12-round majority nod over John Ruiz, a decision that was hotly disputed by the Ruiz camp and many in the crowd, which had been overwhelming partisan toward Valuev when the night began.
Controversy or not, both his life and career are good for Valuev right now, and with plenty of opportunity staring at him, there is the chance to become a worldwide star if everything goes right from here.
Valuev, however, could have easily found himself reduced to little more than an oddity put on display for the amusement of gawkers.
"The guy has been through seven promoters by now," says Don Majeski, the peripatetic matchmaker and agent who makes his living on the international front, "and he was never looked upon as a fighter. They all looked at him like some kind of freak show, and promoted him that way. So of course they had a lot of guys laying down in front of him."
Valuev, who turned pro in October of 1993 weighing 312 3/4 pounds, nearly always enjoys a weight advantage of 80-100 pounds over opponents. He advanced to the point where he had won both the Russian and Pan Asian Boxing Association (PABA) heavyweight titles, and had found himself inserted into the WBA's world ratings in November of 2000, but his career wasn't really going anywhere, largely due to the lack of a believability factor.
In 2003, Valuev joined forces with German promoter Wilfred Sauerland and began to make some genuine strides.
"Sauerland treated Valuev like he was a real boxer, which nobody had ever really done before," said Majeski, who serves as an advisor to Sauerland. "He began to put him with the right kind of opponents, so that he could develop. I mean, this guy didn't really learn how to fight until about a year and a half ago."
Under Sauerland, Valuev posted wins over journeymen Bob Mirovic and Dickie Ryan, former WBC cruiserweight champ Marcelo Dominguez, Italian Paolo Vidoz ? who would go on to win the European heavyweight title, previously undefeated Gerald Nobles (who was DQ'd for low blows and reportedly terrified) and Swedish import Attila Levin. He won a majority decision over Larry Donald last Oct. 1, which led to the WBA world title bout with Ruiz just 10 weeks later.
Valuev's ring style is nothing unique. He's more or less an orthodox fighter, who throws out a long left jab, uses his reach to tie his opponents up, and can do some damage with either hand, if he catches his foe just right. That's what happened to Clifford Etienne, the former contender, outweighed by 115 1/2 pounds, whom Valuev dispatched in three rounds last May, in a fight that led to the WBA elimination bout against Donald.
Even getting that far placed Valuev in a class well above all the 7-foot fighters who came before him.
There is very little comparison one can make between other seven-foot fighters and Valuev, who has accomplished more, has better rudimentary skills, and has better movement in the ring than virtually all of the aforementioned.
This is not to say that Valuev should be confused with a ballet dancer. But when considered within the context of other giants who have competed with gloves on, his presence has already been more significant than any of them and Valuev stands alone in terms of elevating himself into a position of true world prominence.
There is a bit more of an aura about Valuev as well. The fact that he does possess some basic ability has gone a long way toward cementing a psychological advantage against many of his opponents, as a function of his immensity.
But while Valuev's size may well be an intimidating factor against a certain class of heavyweight, there have been no shortage of people who wish to step forward and challenge him. Valuev's people appear to be in no hurry to put the WBA crown at serious risk, and those "people" now number among them one Don King, who became a promotional partner when he made a deal prior to the Ruiz fight.
Not surprisingly, the opponent slated for an April 1 title defense is a fighter from the King stable ? Owen Beck, who earned his shot by virtue of consecutive defeats to Monte Barrett and Ray Austin and an eight-round decision win over Darnell Wilson, a natural light heavyweight.
When Valuev comes to the U.S. in September, it will most likely be part of a doubleheader with WBA middleweight champ Arthur Abraham. The possible foes being discussed include Austin and Kevin McBride, the so-so New Englander who stopped a discombobulated Mike Tyson last June.
The rationale is not hard to figure. There is one fight on the horizon that would mean far more than any others, at least from a financial perspective.
"Of course, the fight I think they'd eventually be aiming at is with Wladimir Klitschko, if he winds up beating Chris Byrd for the IBF title," says Majeski. "The gate for that fight would be colossal, maybe the biggest live gate in the history of boxing in Germany."
Valuev has drawn big crowds in his adopted homeland, but curiously, very few people in America have had the opportunity to watch him fight. In fact, during the television era, Valuev may be one of only a couple of fighters who, at the time he won a recognized heavyweight championship, has been almost unrecognizable on U.S. television. (Former WBO champ Herbie Hide may fit in here, too.) There may be a certain design associated with that, because mystique has a way of disappearing with exposure, especially if your ability does not match your dimensions ? and in Valuev's case, how could they?
It takes a big man to make a heavyweight fighter look tiny. But that's what Nikolay Valuev did to John Ruiz. (Martin Rose / Getty Images)
But the fact of the matter is that the demand for Valuev in America is rather elastic to this point. The fight with Ruiz was unwanted by any U.S. television networks and was only able to happen because of $1 million that came from European TV. The title fight against Beck is as yet unsold to any television entities here. The plan is that the September fight will be on HBO, and if Valuev gets past that, surely a fight in December with a mandatory contender will be worthy of more television interest.
There are other reasons for not rushing over to these shores. One of them has to do with basic economics. There is simply more money to be made through live audiences and television in Europe, which is more familiar territory for Sauerland.
Another is that a New Jersey-based businessman, Joe O'Donnell, has a claim to Valuev's promotional rights in the United States. Indeed, he did promote Valuev's fight in Atlantic City against George Linberger in 2001, and after O'Donnell won a preliminary round in court the case is still being contested, with the issue of international jurisdiction complicating things.
And then there is the matter of an assault charge Valuev now faces in Russia, where he is said to have roughed up a 61-year-old security guard at a skating rink, because he allegedly was rude to Valuev's wife.
It may be a stretch to say that Valuev is the "heavyweight of the future." But people his size are getting more agile and athletic with each passing year. Many of those athletes have gravitated toward basketball, but what if Valuev were to put together a significant title reign? Would it cause a change to the way boxing's so-called "governing bodies" lay things out in the heavyweight class, mindful of the fact that they are always on the lookout for more opportunities to earn sanctioning fees?
After all, in the days of Joe Louis and as recently as Rocky Marciano and Floyd Patterson, top-flight heavyweights often weighed less than 200 pounds. Long after it was well-established that leading heavyweights were getting naturally bigger and stronger (notwithstanding occasional exceptions like Leon and Michael Spinks, Roy Jones or James Toney), the cruiserweight division was instituted, in order to fill the vacuum that now existed between the 175-pound limit (light heavy) and where the "real" heavyweights were.
Will there be a point where fighters under, say, 220 pounds might be unable to compete with any kind of consistency in the upper reaches of the division? If Valuev experiences success, and there are some indications that he may be a harbinger of things to come, could a "super heavyweight" classification soon become part of the fabric of boxing?
Hank Kaplan, a recent Hall of Fame inductee who is perhaps the foremost boxing historian alive, can see a possible shift in that tide.
"Depending on how well this guy (Valuev) does," says Kaplan, "that will inspire the 'super dreadnaught' class, if you get two or three more of those kind of guys."
Whether Valuev himself is one of "those kind of guys" is something that remains to be seen. And when it comes to most people on this side of the pond, the phrase "remains to be seen" is something that must be digested in the literal sense.
..................................................................................................
Nikolay Valuev is a giant of a man, standing at 7-foot (by most accounts anyway) and regularly weighing in at over 320 pounds. Though many people may not be aware of it, he is currently the heavyweight champion of the world, at least as far as the World Boxing Association is concerned.
The former basketball player from St. Petersburg, Russia, who now fights out of Germany, won the title on Dec. 17 with a 12-round majority nod over John Ruiz, a decision that was hotly disputed by the Ruiz camp and many in the crowd, which had been overwhelming partisan toward Valuev when the night began.
Controversy or not, both his life and career are good for Valuev right now, and with plenty of opportunity staring at him, there is the chance to become a worldwide star if everything goes right from here.
Valuev, however, could have easily found himself reduced to little more than an oddity put on display for the amusement of gawkers.
"The guy has been through seven promoters by now," says Don Majeski, the peripatetic matchmaker and agent who makes his living on the international front, "and he was never looked upon as a fighter. They all looked at him like some kind of freak show, and promoted him that way. So of course they had a lot of guys laying down in front of him."
Valuev, who turned pro in October of 1993 weighing 312 3/4 pounds, nearly always enjoys a weight advantage of 80-100 pounds over opponents. He advanced to the point where he had won both the Russian and Pan Asian Boxing Association (PABA) heavyweight titles, and had found himself inserted into the WBA's world ratings in November of 2000, but his career wasn't really going anywhere, largely due to the lack of a believability factor.
In 2003, Valuev joined forces with German promoter Wilfred Sauerland and began to make some genuine strides.
"Sauerland treated Valuev like he was a real boxer, which nobody had ever really done before," said Majeski, who serves as an advisor to Sauerland. "He began to put him with the right kind of opponents, so that he could develop. I mean, this guy didn't really learn how to fight until about a year and a half ago."
Under Sauerland, Valuev posted wins over journeymen Bob Mirovic and Dickie Ryan, former WBC cruiserweight champ Marcelo Dominguez, Italian Paolo Vidoz ? who would go on to win the European heavyweight title, previously undefeated Gerald Nobles (who was DQ'd for low blows and reportedly terrified) and Swedish import Attila Levin. He won a majority decision over Larry Donald last Oct. 1, which led to the WBA world title bout with Ruiz just 10 weeks later.
Valuev's ring style is nothing unique. He's more or less an orthodox fighter, who throws out a long left jab, uses his reach to tie his opponents up, and can do some damage with either hand, if he catches his foe just right. That's what happened to Clifford Etienne, the former contender, outweighed by 115 1/2 pounds, whom Valuev dispatched in three rounds last May, in a fight that led to the WBA elimination bout against Donald.
Even getting that far placed Valuev in a class well above all the 7-foot fighters who came before him.
There is very little comparison one can make between other seven-foot fighters and Valuev, who has accomplished more, has better rudimentary skills, and has better movement in the ring than virtually all of the aforementioned.
This is not to say that Valuev should be confused with a ballet dancer. But when considered within the context of other giants who have competed with gloves on, his presence has already been more significant than any of them and Valuev stands alone in terms of elevating himself into a position of true world prominence.
There is a bit more of an aura about Valuev as well. The fact that he does possess some basic ability has gone a long way toward cementing a psychological advantage against many of his opponents, as a function of his immensity.
But while Valuev's size may well be an intimidating factor against a certain class of heavyweight, there have been no shortage of people who wish to step forward and challenge him. Valuev's people appear to be in no hurry to put the WBA crown at serious risk, and those "people" now number among them one Don King, who became a promotional partner when he made a deal prior to the Ruiz fight.
Not surprisingly, the opponent slated for an April 1 title defense is a fighter from the King stable ? Owen Beck, who earned his shot by virtue of consecutive defeats to Monte Barrett and Ray Austin and an eight-round decision win over Darnell Wilson, a natural light heavyweight.
When Valuev comes to the U.S. in September, it will most likely be part of a doubleheader with WBA middleweight champ Arthur Abraham. The possible foes being discussed include Austin and Kevin McBride, the so-so New Englander who stopped a discombobulated Mike Tyson last June.
The rationale is not hard to figure. There is one fight on the horizon that would mean far more than any others, at least from a financial perspective.
"Of course, the fight I think they'd eventually be aiming at is with Wladimir Klitschko, if he winds up beating Chris Byrd for the IBF title," says Majeski. "The gate for that fight would be colossal, maybe the biggest live gate in the history of boxing in Germany."
Valuev has drawn big crowds in his adopted homeland, but curiously, very few people in America have had the opportunity to watch him fight. In fact, during the television era, Valuev may be one of only a couple of fighters who, at the time he won a recognized heavyweight championship, has been almost unrecognizable on U.S. television. (Former WBO champ Herbie Hide may fit in here, too.) There may be a certain design associated with that, because mystique has a way of disappearing with exposure, especially if your ability does not match your dimensions ? and in Valuev's case, how could they?
It takes a big man to make a heavyweight fighter look tiny. But that's what Nikolay Valuev did to John Ruiz. (Martin Rose / Getty Images)
But the fact of the matter is that the demand for Valuev in America is rather elastic to this point. The fight with Ruiz was unwanted by any U.S. television networks and was only able to happen because of $1 million that came from European TV. The title fight against Beck is as yet unsold to any television entities here. The plan is that the September fight will be on HBO, and if Valuev gets past that, surely a fight in December with a mandatory contender will be worthy of more television interest.
There are other reasons for not rushing over to these shores. One of them has to do with basic economics. There is simply more money to be made through live audiences and television in Europe, which is more familiar territory for Sauerland.
Another is that a New Jersey-based businessman, Joe O'Donnell, has a claim to Valuev's promotional rights in the United States. Indeed, he did promote Valuev's fight in Atlantic City against George Linberger in 2001, and after O'Donnell won a preliminary round in court the case is still being contested, with the issue of international jurisdiction complicating things.
And then there is the matter of an assault charge Valuev now faces in Russia, where he is said to have roughed up a 61-year-old security guard at a skating rink, because he allegedly was rude to Valuev's wife.
It may be a stretch to say that Valuev is the "heavyweight of the future." But people his size are getting more agile and athletic with each passing year. Many of those athletes have gravitated toward basketball, but what if Valuev were to put together a significant title reign? Would it cause a change to the way boxing's so-called "governing bodies" lay things out in the heavyweight class, mindful of the fact that they are always on the lookout for more opportunities to earn sanctioning fees?
After all, in the days of Joe Louis and as recently as Rocky Marciano and Floyd Patterson, top-flight heavyweights often weighed less than 200 pounds. Long after it was well-established that leading heavyweights were getting naturally bigger and stronger (notwithstanding occasional exceptions like Leon and Michael Spinks, Roy Jones or James Toney), the cruiserweight division was instituted, in order to fill the vacuum that now existed between the 175-pound limit (light heavy) and where the "real" heavyweights were.
Will there be a point where fighters under, say, 220 pounds might be unable to compete with any kind of consistency in the upper reaches of the division? If Valuev experiences success, and there are some indications that he may be a harbinger of things to come, could a "super heavyweight" classification soon become part of the fabric of boxing?
Hank Kaplan, a recent Hall of Fame inductee who is perhaps the foremost boxing historian alive, can see a possible shift in that tide.
"Depending on how well this guy (Valuev) does," says Kaplan, "that will inspire the 'super dreadnaught' class, if you get two or three more of those kind of guys."
Whether Valuev himself is one of "those kind of guys" is something that remains to be seen. And when it comes to most people on this side of the pond, the phrase "remains to be seen" is something that must be digested in the literal sense.
..................................................................................................
a guy who I respect on another site swears valuev isn't a total fraud but I think he'll be well protected until his novelty wears off.
I dont think he will be well protected if they are going to match him against Beck..
That would be stepping into the big leagues
That would be stepping into the big leagues
I think he sucks. Ruiz beat him pretty clearly and got robbed. I saw the fight and even the fans in germany BOO'ed the decision. I hate Ruiz and hope he is gone forever, but he deserved the decision over that slow,lumbering oaf.
.................................................................MayorgaFan said:
Mayor
lmao
You called him a big lumbering oaf.
Cant wait for Don King to get him under his wing and maybe try to set up Tyson vs the big lumbering oaf in Japan or something.
Nikolay Valuev vs Monte Barrett
I am starting to look at this fight coming up on
October 7, 2006.
I already have a gut feeling about what will happen in this fight.
How would you like to meet Nikolay in a dark alleyway when he has no money in his pockets ?
This guy is a brute.
If I decide its going to be a carnaval ride I won't play it. Its seems like a easy outcome fight to me.
I am starting to look at this fight coming up on
October 7, 2006.
I already have a gut feeling about what will happen in this fight.
How would you like to meet Nikolay in a dark alleyway when he has no money in his pockets ?
This guy is a brute.
If I decide its going to be a carnaval ride I won't play it. Its seems like a easy outcome fight to me.
The first thing that I think about in making a play on this fight is what is the chance of there being a knockout by either man.
For one thing, I love the KO. I live to watch the KO. But thats just me.
The important thing for me is if there is a strong chance for the KO, then I want to be on that wager. Power in both hands ? Stamina for 12 rounds of boxing ? Alot of early KOs on the list ?
To identify a knockout, makes bigger cash along with disqualified. Good to wager on the DQ if you have Golata in a boxing match. I will never forget that fight with Riddick Bowe where Golata punished Bowe over and over with shots to the groin. Golata was a madman, and just would not stop. Golata was disqualified and I learned something right then about wagering on disqualifications.
The other side of it, is for me to look at how susceptable are both fighters to going down for the count of 10. As in good night sweet prince.
The wager has now started.
We are on the clock for Oct 7 , 2006
Seems like a long time.
Its time for the big dogs to get in and eat.
Where will it all end ?
For one thing, I love the KO. I live to watch the KO. But thats just me.
The important thing for me is if there is a strong chance for the KO, then I want to be on that wager. Power in both hands ? Stamina for 12 rounds of boxing ? Alot of early KOs on the list ?
To identify a knockout, makes bigger cash along with disqualified. Good to wager on the DQ if you have Golata in a boxing match. I will never forget that fight with Riddick Bowe where Golata punished Bowe over and over with shots to the groin. Golata was a madman, and just would not stop. Golata was disqualified and I learned something right then about wagering on disqualifications.
The other side of it, is for me to look at how susceptable are both fighters to going down for the count of 10. As in good night sweet prince.
The wager has now started.
We are on the clock for Oct 7 , 2006
Seems like a long time.
Its time for the big dogs to get in and eat.
Where will it all end ?
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The former basketball player from St. Petersburg, Russia, who now fights out of Germany, won the title on Dec. 17 with a 12-round majority nod over John Ruiz, a decision that was hotly disputed by the Ruiz camp and many in the crowd, which had been overwhelming partisan toward Valuev when the night began.
..................................................
This is going to be important, because Valuev is going to have to win convincingly to get a decision.
As a matter of fact , Valuev probably realizes that it would be in his best interest to get the knockout so there is no chance for that outcome.
After all , there are millions at stake here now.
..................................................
This is going to be important, because Valuev is going to have to win convincingly to get a decision.
As a matter of fact , Valuev probably realizes that it would be in his best interest to get the knockout so there is no chance for that outcome.
After all , there are millions at stake here now.
BOX
thanks, yeh nothing like having the king of ace up your sleeve. That has to be taken into consideration.
the wiinng wagers could come from that alone.
thanks, yeh nothing like having the king of ace up your sleeve. That has to be taken into consideration.
the wiinng wagers could come from that alone.
I did not see the Valuev vs Ruiz fight.
My question would be this.
Did Ruiz hold his own in the fight ? or was he beaten up to a bloody pulp ?
Was Ruiz pounding on the Giants chin ?
My question would be this.
Did Ruiz hold his own in the fight ? or was he beaten up to a bloody pulp ?
Was Ruiz pounding on the Giants chin ?
The link I posted shows the highlights of the Ruiz-Valuev fight and many others
Ruiz held his own and did not get beat to a bloody pulp, as MF mentioned Ruiz probably deserved to win. Valuev fights are very hard to score b/c he's so damn big, punches landed by his smaller opponents don't seem to have any effect on him.
gl bl
Ruiz held his own and did not get beat to a bloody pulp, as MF mentioned Ruiz probably deserved to win. Valuev fights are very hard to score b/c he's so damn big, punches landed by his smaller opponents don't seem to have any effect on him.
gl bl
....................................
Valuevs head is twice as big as Two Guns.
I guess thats why he is called Giant
Its best to avoid fighting someone whose head is twice as big as yours.
Two Guns may need to consider some type of head protection and maybe a extra jock strap.
Bingo !
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I think its safe to surmize that we know for a fact that Two Guns is not getting a knockout.
So now that leaves The Giant...
How is Two Guns chin anyways ?
Does he tend to do the whirly bird things when he gets hit like Valuev is going to pound on him ?
I have a feeling that Two Guns is going to be flying around like a helicopter.
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