Has America gone CRAZY???

[GlobalTrance]

Has it ???
Consider the folling and YOU TELL ME !

Point 1 : During his recent Conference , Colin Powell has stated that America will provide FINANCIAL AID to help re-build Palestine. WHAT THE **** !!! Thats our tax dollars going to help a nation that is not only anti-american but also pro-terrorism . Thats right , i said it PRO-TERRORISM. Don't even bother trying to tell me that Arafat has no control over the ANIMALS over there killing women and children . While you "might" be able to get away with saying as of late his control has been hampered by the Isreali attacks. That these "organizations" were ALREADY FIMLY INPLACE and operating comfortably speaks VOLUMES about where Arafats ideolgy lies. That we (americans) should fund (with OUR tax dollars) the re-construction of this TERRORIST NATION is LUDICRIOUS !!!

Point 2 : Now pay attention people , this is REALLY funny . It has been reported that thousands of Afganastan's cannot return home due to , now get this , PROTESTS BY THE POPPY GROWERS over what they consider unfair treatment of their (ahem) product . Sooooo , the HERION dealers are upset and hindering the return of people to their homes ? UTTER ****ING MADNESS . Where O where is our ever so powerful (billions of dollars) war on drugs ? huh huh huh , WHERE ? Oh , thats right , they're busy filming another fried egg commerical and busting some small-time hustler with 100 pounds of bud . Thats right , a 100 pounds of bud is SMALLCHANGE in the scheme of the war on drugs , think about it. If America was serious on reducing the drug dependency in this country would it not have been OBVIOUS to destroy those fields permantently ? For those that are unaware , the "poppy" that is grown in Afghanastan supplies about 80% of the market . Now before any of you "bleeding heart liberals" start crying about how devastating this would be to the Afghan econmy ,remember this : the first priorty of the American government is to PROTECT its citizenry !!! **** THE REST , TAKE CARE OF YOUR OWN FIRST , then help where you can . Instead the "trade" goes on and MORE and MORE AMERICAN CIVILIANS will die either directly or in'directly from the ALLOWED marketing of illegal drugs in this country .

Point 3 : Illegal aliens in California are in an UPROAR over pending legislation that would allow drivers liscenses but with an "i" stamped on them to signify that they are illegal. These ROTTEN M****ERS are upset because of the potential "i" ??? Do I really need to explain this one folks ? I sure hope not.

Point 4 : Chris Mattews interviewing some wannabe journalist in the mid-east on the result of polling mid-easterners on their thoughts about America . Big surprise , America 0 ,nada , we suck , (according to the polls . hahahahaha . The point is , Mattews and this wannabe tried to explain it away as state controlled media propaganda . Well here's a little something for ya people , If you think the Government and BIG BUSINESS RUN MEDIA here in the grand ol USA doesn't lie , BOLDLY to you , well , uh , then , I can't help you. Lets just say that its a VERY GOOD case of the pot calling the kettle black.

Lastly, and I must CLARIFY this , I LOVE LIVING HERE , I have more freedom and oppurtunity then ANYWHERE ELSE IN THE WORLD !!!! I am VERY ETHNO-CENTRIC . That doesn't mean however , that I must sit by quietly , and meekly , taking whatever may come. Ending , I must say that having re-read this it might seem QUITE out of context for me (to those of you who have met me) but I'M pissed and bewildered at the same time . This all is beginning to seem surreal . Well , Fire away people , if any of you think this post is worthy of a reply , if you don't thats cool too . Jack , thanks , this is the first (kind of letter to the editor) i've ever written and I thank you for providing such a forum that I felt comfortable enough to do so , whatever may come .

 

[PerpetualCzech]

I really wish more Americans could get to live outside their country and look at the world from a different point of view.

I'm not trying to criticize your opinions, in fact, I totally understand what could motivate you to have them. But it just screams from a blind rage that has made zero effort to understand the position of the people you are berating (e.g. Palestinians)

Until you lose that I don't think you are qualified to offer answers to these problems.

 

[dr. freeze]

unbelievable.....we will give these people money so that they can make more bombs......and afford to come over here and detonate them....

here would be my point of view if i lived outside the country: "the U.S. is giving these people who denounce them and want to blow them up money? what a bunch of fools! everytime the US gives money to these Arab people they turn around and either terrorize them, or spend it on running training camps for terrorism against the US. This country is stupid!"

why don't Palestine's neighbors help out, like Egypt or Jordan....oh wait, last time they "helped out" they also took the Palestinians' land and slaughtered thousands of them! This whole way of living is so backward that it seems to me that their is no help for these peoples. They seem content on throwing rocks at each other and blowing each other up. We should just leave them alone until they are finished.

 

[PerpetualCzech]

Bush already tried this strategy earlier this year and it didn't work. You're at least 6 months behind current events and my guess is that it's a lot more than that.

 

[dr. freeze]

yeah actually i am.....i am going back to the early 1980's i think it was when King Hussein marched into Palestine and slaughtered many PLO's for land......am going back to the 80's when we helped out Iraq only to see that money used by Saddam to slaughter many of his own people.....

you are right though it is too late because we give these guys money and now they come over here and blow us up.....don't see anything you can do now except hunt them down like we are trying....

 

[AR182]

I have a better idea than the US tax dollars being used for Palestine remodeling.Saudi Arabia had a telethon for the families of the murder bombers & collected $56 million dollars.I suggest that this be used to build Palestine intrastructure.Or yet the US & other countries have given millions already to help the people of Palestine.Where is that money?I think they should look at the off shore bank accounts that Arafat opened for his "retirement".And we are not talking about a Roth Ira type of money.We are talking about millions.Probably in the same banks where many other Arab leaders are storing their stolen money.
I do belive that the US gov't.does "stretch the truth"& the media does sometime do a spin to their way of thinking on an issue,but the media IS NOt controlled by the gov't.If you ever watch a press conference by any of Bush's people you will hear questions on many points of views& their are too many "watchdogs"(ACLU & the Religious Right to name a few) with different points of view to allow the US gov't control the media.
In the US you will hear views sympathetic to both Israel & Palestine.I have yet to hear any Arab comments favoring Israel & condemnining suicide bombing as a terrorist act.

 

[Red Raider]

I really wish more Americans could get to live outside their country and look at the world from a different point of view.

I agree that we tend to see things differently, and we tend to dismiss other countries "way of life" as backwards.

BUT

Just because we should understand that our way is not the only way, doesn't mean ourway is bad. In fact it is "our way" that has made the US what it is today. The most powerful country on earth. This is no fluke, we allow the freedom for all to strive and acheive what ever they want.

We are in fact, very tolerant. There is freedom of religion, speech, et. al. We have conservative and liberals in government, yet when the day is over we're all Americans and we'll all stick together as one when needed. It is a rare exception when we feel the need to kill someone who disagrees with us. This is not true in a lot of other places.

I also love how the US is criticized for our handling of the counties. The people criticzing have never been in the position that we're in. IT NOT EASY BEING AT THE TOP. I can't recall anyone looking toward Sweeden, Denmark, Spain, etc... for help bailing them out of some situation, and then bitching about the way we did it.

In the end you never see us starting any problem, we tend to stay away and when the situation starts effecting "innocents" or yes, our interests, then we'll step in. But trust me, we weren't looking to invade Afganastan, they brought it to us, we weren't looking to get in WWI or WWII, again it was brought to us!

We're "the evil ones", why? because we're peaceful, successful, tolerant, happy and free! If guess if your not, than you get pissed that someone else is. Misery loves company!

PerpetualCzech, this is in no way a knock on you, and I like having an opinion from someone with another perception. But, typically when we say something bad about another country (Palestine) the world's response is "Arrogant Americans"!!

I'm sorry, but I do agree with GlobalTrance that this is madness. You know we had a Civil war too. But "ourway" of doing things has allowed us to move pass this and I can't think of anyone who wants to kill someone else becuase of the History behind that. We let it go. (Yes there extremist factions KKK, White supremeisist)

Peace to ALL!

 

[GlobalTrance]

Chech , I have no qualms with the "ordinary " citizenry of Palestine. Shit , theres people JUST LIKE US (humanbeings) over there suffering . My FUNDAMENTAL problem is giving MY TAX dollars to a regime that WHOLE-HEARTEDLY supports TERRORISM and will IN SOME WAY take the money we give them (to help them) and turn around and use that money to re-build their TERRORIST networks. Shit , Arafat goes on the radio screaming for more martyrs and today ANOTHER suiside bomber KILLS MORE Isreali women & children. Now i'll say it again : Arafat "may" have lost some control of these extremist groups with his current situation and all , BUT , HE ALLOWED THEM to set up camp in his nation and ALLOWED them to live unfetted . THIS IS UNACCEPTABLE. Now the US gov. is going to give them MY TAX DOLLARS ??? I don't think so . I feel for the innocent palestinians but NOT at the expense of my (americans) health and well-being. A governments first priorty is TO ITS OWN PEOPLE . Donating money to help re-build a TERRORIST nation IS NOT in AMERICA's BEST INTEREST.

 

[GlobalTrance]

AR182 , let me see if I can be clearer.
POINT 1 : pre 9/11 , McVeigh , ABSOLUTELY < POSITIVELY , acted alone . We spent MILLIONS investagating that one. Post 9/11 : McVeigh had mid-eastern connections . Big 180 there my friend .

POINT 2 : pre 9/11 : Jet explodes of Long Island , the cause , faulty engine. MILLIONS spent on investagating that one , contradicting eyewitnesses to the contrary. Post 9/11 : Jet shot down by missle off coast of Long Island . Are we beginning to see the point here ?

Point 3 : The Dershing(sp) story . Two SICK GAY thugs kidnap little boy , torture and sodomize him over a period of days eventually killing him. NO MEDIA REPORTING on it . One exec made the notion that "we didn't want to offend the gay" community ! hahahahahha . Thats fair ,balanced coverage huh?

The point is elitist main stream media & government tell you only what they want you to know . They try to manipulate your thinking by (a) ammount of coverage given to events and (b) the manner in which they report them.

Thanks to the advent of the internet and its world-wide acceptence ,the information that is being kept from you is NOW becoming harder to keep under wraps . If your interested , check out this site , sift through and letme know what you think.
www.mediaresearch.org it will most assuredly open your eyes some regardless of your affiliation ,liberal, conservative, etc...

 

[PerpetualCzech]

This is way too complex an issue to try and cover clumsily over a message board but I'll try and be concise as possible.

I hope no one took me the wrong way. I never meant to imply the States was evil. I grew up with the same ideals as most who are reading this (born in Prague but raised in Canada). I believe that the principles that the Western World (of which the States is a clear leader) is based on would create a far more stable world than any other system. I criticize America for the same reason I criticize the Palastinians, the Israelis, the Taliban etc. : a total inability to even *try* and understand the rationale of the person in the other corner.

Terrorism WORKS. It's not good stubbornly refusing to give into this. It why people like Jerry Adams are respected world leaders today. Cripes, one of the founding fathers of terrorism won the freaking Nobel Peace Prize a few years ago! It's the only weapon available to to some very desperate people who are demanding to be heard and if we don't start listening it's just going to get worse and worse. This should be about as clear as can be by now but everyone is just so blinded by their own version of the truth that they still don't see this. GlobalTrance's first post in this thread is a perfect example of this.

If your main focus is bringing about your version of justice, fine, keep doing what you are doing. Your enemies will do the same and I am personally very scared of some of the possible results from this road. I am of the opinion that the idea of an absolute right or wrong (or a "truth") in this confict just doesn't exist, yet all I from anyone who takes the time to voice an opinion is the opposite.

Sorry if I am appearing too idealistic. I'm sure a lot of you are just shaking their head at this whiny liberal who isn't even offering a possible alternative solution. But I just cringe everytime I hear "God Bless America" or chants of "USA! USA!" on TV because on a very important level this is contributing just as much to the instability of the world as the next suicide bomber. What's worse, it's probably encouraging him.

 

[Red Raider]

Your right, this way to complicated to give its proper due without all of us writing our 10,000 word dissertation.

I'm sorry, but they hate just to hate, their taught to hate americans from an early age, and I just don't understand what we've done to incur this. You know what, I don't hate anyone just because of their religion, race or nationality. yes there is racism, but as a whole Americans feel the same way as I.

Now you imply that Country pride is a bad thing! I'm sorry but I don't understand that either.

Pride, freedom, tolerence, prosperity. These are good things, right?? But somehow if Americans have these it turns bad and is arrogant.

ah, we're gonna go around in circles. I just want to say that I don't understand hate for no reason, i don't understand killing because of differing religons, if the that makes me a close minded arrogant American, so be it!

Peace to All

 

[PerpetualCzech]

Yeah, I guess I do think there are some bad things about country pride (not just American). I admit I am not the world's biggest patriot.

There *is* a reason for their hate. This is not a random phenomenon and I hope most Americans don't believe this. Trying to find out these reasons I believe is the first step down a good road.

Am happy to meet you in a pub some day to talk more

 

[AR182]

Red Raider very well said in your first post.Couldn't agree with you more.

GlobalTrance,while I do think their is a liberal bias,I still don't think the gov't controls the media.Don't know how old you are but I remember the Water Gate mess when Nixon was president.He probably was one of the most controlling presidents in our history,yet he was exposed by the media.
I didn't know if you wanted me to comment on your points in your last post.But will give it a try.In the Timothy McVeigh case,the FBI always said that he may not have done this on his own,that their may have been a another person involved.While we know how ineffective the FBI has been lately,they could not find that other person.I heard their may be a link to the Middle East before 9\11.However it was just speculation.It could not be proven.
On your 2nd point about the plane crash I always heard it was the plane breaking up that caused the crash.Again their was no proof that the plane was shot down.I don't think that the gov't would cover this up because imo the US gov't was looking for any links to terrorism to help the cause against terrorism.I suppose that there will always be conspiracy people who think the plane was shot.It will just be added to other conspiracy theories on other incidents.
I am sorry but have not heard about your last point.When did this happen?To me an incident like that is just as disgusting as those anti-gay attacks in Wyoming & Texas a few years back.
Time permitting I try to read papers that are both liberal(NY Times,Ny Daily News)& consevative(Arizona Republic,NY Post)& the USA Today.This way I try to get many points of view & draw my own opinion on various subjects.So I don't know why I missed that story of that brutal & sick killing.
I am sorry that I don't agree with your opinion of the media being controlled,but I have seen examples of the media exposing bad behavior of our officials.
PerpetualCzech....I remember our the US was divided over the VietNam War,so I for one like to see the country basically united over the war on terrorism.

 

[PRO190]

Sorry ,Per National Security occupancy code WE ARE FULL...Please move on to the next Country that allows you all the opportunities the good Ol' U.S. does. Oh WAIT, THAT DOES'NT EXIST......

The next time all the euros' and other America Slammers start their B>S> just remember w/o the red/wh/bl ,U.K. and a few others watching your backside you would be Rolled in a Heart-Beat.......

 

[PerpetualCzech]

PRO190,

Are you even thinking about what you write? What opportunities do you have in the States that someone from Norway or Australia doesn't have?

 

[PerpetualCzech]

AR182,

Arabs condemn suicide bombing in interviews on CNN all the time. Read Thomas Friedman editorials in the NY Times for good evidence that most arabs do not share the views of the extremists.

 

[AR182]

PCzech......I agree that the extremists & a couple of countries are causing the problems.

 

[djv]

OIL,OIL,OIL. PERIOD. Otherwise we would have blown the chit out oF Saudi. Thats where all the 9/11 bastered came from. It's where all the money came from. So we chace a bunch of low lifes around with 2 million dollar bombs in Afganbyass. Ya we got a few bad guys and stopped them from training a few more. If we can't stop the money flow completely. We can't stop them. They know we are not going to do thing to Saudi. The Palestien up roar is another decoy. We better keep are mind on Saudi, Iran and Iraqi. I know lets drill for more oil here that we get to use in about 7 years. Ya that will solve everything. I wish we would get the chit out of there business over there. Put tons of money into our inventors to come up with alternative energy ideas and programs that work. The jobs it would create for our country is huge. Have a hunch with a big oil Prez in office in ant going to get past 2nd base. To bad longer we wait the tuffer for us all it will be. Well at least our Kids and Grand kids.

 

[Myron]

Perpetual Czech. I'd say that if some Muslim fundamentalists came to Stockholm and killed thousands of your citizens for reasons that only they understand, you may have a different view of the Arab world.

The thing that frightened me the most were seeing all those anti Israeli protests in places like London and Berlin. I was shocked to find out that 1/5 of England's population is Muslim. It sure puts Tony Blair in a predicament. I truly believe (although I hope I'm wrong) that at some point the Arabs are going to do something that will force the U.S. to come in and aid Israel. When that happens Blair will have to make a choice. He already stated he will stick with Busch but I have a hunch that could lead to a civil war in Britain and big backlashes elsewhere. And no doubt at that point you would see suicide bombers in places like Trafalgar Square in London, Rockefeller Center and the Mall of America in the U.S. and various meeting spots throughout other parts of Europe.

A report recently stated that Al Qaida and Arafat have "thousands of suicide bombers" at the waiting throughout the Western World just waiting for the go ahead. When they get that signal and suicide bombers are blowing themselves out throughout Sweden I hope you say at that point
"It's our fault because we so badly misunderstand the Arabs."

 

[just cover]

I am getting into this a little late but I got a little quick info to add to the topic. DJV is a totally right that alot of all this bullshit has to do with the Saudis. I believe that only 3 of the bombers were NOT from Saudi arabia. Another interesting fact that when all planes were grounded after 9/11. the Saudis were let to go all around the 2days after 9/11 and pick up and get so called diplomats or family relations with their own jets and leave the country. I don't know what the hell that is all about wouldn't they want to question everyone of that area of the world. I don't recall where I heard this but I thought at first it was just some made up stories but i heard it from a couple different editorials or news media outlets.

I can't agree more with Global in that how the hell can we give any aid to Arafrat when everbody in the world knows if he wanted to he could stop those suicide bombings. All that is doing is rewarding terrorism period. Well perpetual czech say this is only available weapon for a desperate people. Dude I respect your opinion as I do everyones here, but I didn't see Gandhi sending out suicide bombers. There are other ways to get peoles attention than murdering thousands of innocent people. Why don't they start going on food strikes by the thousands. I bet that would get alot of attention.

I for one would like nothing better than to let them settle their own problems but we can't. After 9/11 I was ready to send in thenukes and turn that whole area into sheets of glass. We have interests there and innocent people we can't turn our back on.

The only thing that bothers me about all this and other problems around the world is that just about every other country except for a few always critisize the U.S., but when ever they have a problem they expect us to send in our troops or open up our checkbook.

Thats just my opinion I may be wrong(Dennis Miller).

just cover