Kerry can provide plenty of people to back up his service. Karl Rove can find plenty to discredit it.
Why can't anyone find someone that served with W?
Why can't anyone find someone that served with W?
Here is a question about Kerry's Service I want answered.
- Thread starter Clem D
- Start date
W did not and will not base his whole campaign
on what happened 35 years ago...you liberals
need to understand this is 2004...WE are at
WAR...the final decision that must be made in
November that affects ALL AMERICANS is this...
are you hate mongers going to turn a blind eye
and throw caution to the wind and risk your
sons and daughters and grandsons and grand-
daughters future with a senator with a voting
record next to none against a strong defense...
if your answer is yes...shame on you...
on what happened 35 years ago...you liberals
need to understand this is 2004...WE are at
WAR...the final decision that must be made in
November that affects ALL AMERICANS is this...
are you hate mongers going to turn a blind eye
and throw caution to the wind and risk your
sons and daughters and grandsons and grand-
daughters future with a senator with a voting
record next to none against a strong defense...
if your answer is yes...shame on you...
Niether side is letting this f*&^ing thing go! My god, it's to the point of insanity. Seems to me it's not the Liberals that's doing all the recent drudging.
Kerry's campaign is right here: www.johnkerry.com
Stop listening to Fox, and maybe look at Kerry's platform. He's offering real solutions to the DEFICIT, JOB OUTSOURCING, ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION, ALTERNATIVE FUELS, etc.
The country is worse off in every one of these areas. But as long as all we tallk about is stupid Vietnam - we'll never get to the actual problems of today.
And NO - Kerry would not cut and run from Iraq. And YES - very possibly we could actually have better funds for security domestically because he WILL NOT squander it in unneccesary tax cuts. ...And lowering our reliance on Saudi Oil is a step towards major progress in our bad Middle East policies. The current hypocracy is shameful.
Talk about being a hate monger. You've simplified the very complicated and extensive problems of this nation into one shallow knee-jerk response.
"Stop listening to Fox, and maybe look at Kerry's platform. He's offering real solutions to the DEFICIT, JOB OUTSOURCING, ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION, ALTERNATIVE FUELS, etc."
Clem Would you share with us what these solutions are?
How does a person create jobs--unless your speaking of government jobs. Jobs other than governmental are create by business--how does attacking businesses create jobs?
Health Care Nothing but promises from both sides but no solutions. You can peck at the problems by can't solve them.Do you think legal reform might be step in right direction.
Alternative fuels--every administration has worked on these with little success so far. What invention is he going tocome up with to solve it.
Environment--this is one area I favor the dems outlook-I am pro environment-however I think we can have both exploration and environment work hand in hand. I have witnessed in the coal country of Ky where they strip mine and when finished create lakes and recreation facilties that are quite beautiful.A win/win for the community.
Deficit--The big con from both sides. Unless you know there will be no more 911 how can you "promise" unless there will be no more wars or fighting terrorist how are you going to curb military spending.Maybe he intends to look the other way like last administration and hope it goes away on its own.
There are short term events that happen that make promises a fools statement believed only by bigger fools from both parties. Where problem arises is long term "escaltaing" expenditures like Bushes medicare which I was very much against but considering Kerry is #1 liberal spender and Edwards # 4 I surely don't look for an improvement if he is elected--
In a nutshell you can forget political promises from either side you can only go on by their past actions. On one side we have incubent with almost 4 years to judge--on the other we have one with 20 year voting record to judge.
The political conventions are a good quage.
We have had one conclude with candidate saying little or nothing about his accomplishments in senate (to no surprise)
I will be quite curious to see if GWB tries to blow smoke on what he is going to do next 4 years or refers to what he has done the past 4. We will see.
Clem Would you share with us what these solutions are?
How does a person create jobs--unless your speaking of government jobs. Jobs other than governmental are create by business--how does attacking businesses create jobs?
Health Care Nothing but promises from both sides but no solutions. You can peck at the problems by can't solve them.Do you think legal reform might be step in right direction.
Alternative fuels--every administration has worked on these with little success so far. What invention is he going tocome up with to solve it.
Environment--this is one area I favor the dems outlook-I am pro environment-however I think we can have both exploration and environment work hand in hand. I have witnessed in the coal country of Ky where they strip mine and when finished create lakes and recreation facilties that are quite beautiful.A win/win for the community.
Deficit--The big con from both sides. Unless you know there will be no more 911 how can you "promise" unless there will be no more wars or fighting terrorist how are you going to curb military spending.Maybe he intends to look the other way like last administration and hope it goes away on its own.
There are short term events that happen that make promises a fools statement believed only by bigger fools from both parties. Where problem arises is long term "escaltaing" expenditures like Bushes medicare which I was very much against but considering Kerry is #1 liberal spender and Edwards # 4 I surely don't look for an improvement if he is elected--
In a nutshell you can forget political promises from either side you can only go on by their past actions. On one side we have incubent with almost 4 years to judge--on the other we have one with 20 year voting record to judge.
The political conventions are a good quage.
We have had one conclude with candidate saying little or nothing about his accomplishments in senate (to no surprise)
I will be quite curious to see if GWB tries to blow smoke on what he is going to do next 4 years or refers to what he has done the past 4. We will see.
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Wayne:
One thing I would like to comment on is the outsourcing of jobs to India, China, et al. Saw an interesting commentary on this last night on NOW with Bill Moyers. Lou Dobbs, conservative/republican commentator from the liberal media apparently has written a book about this issue the upshot of which states that the permitted outsourcing of jobs by corporate america in an effort to lower labor costs will be the ultimate undoing of the middle class in this country.
Obviously, if labor costs here in the US for a particular job are $15 per hour and you can have the same job done by an Indian with a masters degree for $1, the company in order to stay competitive will ship that job overseas. Can't blame them right.
The fault lies with both parties (NAFTA and WTO), so this commentary is not meant to lay the foundation for this problem at the feet of BushCo. However, Bush seems to be lessening regulations allowing American companies to ship the job overseas then sell the product here in the USA.
Kerry on the other hand is proposing tax incentives to companies that retain jobs in this country. Bush, corporate americas favorite, seems to be doing the opposite. It appears, true to form, that Bush is encouraging the ultimate destruction of the middle class and further expanding the gap between the haves and have nots.
Any comment or rebuttal.
Ed
One thing I would like to comment on is the outsourcing of jobs to India, China, et al. Saw an interesting commentary on this last night on NOW with Bill Moyers. Lou Dobbs, conservative/republican commentator from the liberal media apparently has written a book about this issue the upshot of which states that the permitted outsourcing of jobs by corporate america in an effort to lower labor costs will be the ultimate undoing of the middle class in this country.
Obviously, if labor costs here in the US for a particular job are $15 per hour and you can have the same job done by an Indian with a masters degree for $1, the company in order to stay competitive will ship that job overseas. Can't blame them right.
The fault lies with both parties (NAFTA and WTO), so this commentary is not meant to lay the foundation for this problem at the feet of BushCo. However, Bush seems to be lessening regulations allowing American companies to ship the job overseas then sell the product here in the USA.
Kerry on the other hand is proposing tax incentives to companies that retain jobs in this country. Bush, corporate americas favorite, seems to be doing the opposite. It appears, true to form, that Bush is encouraging the ultimate destruction of the middle class and further expanding the gap between the haves and have nots.
Any comment or rebuttal.
Ed
smurphy said:
Kerry is the one who based his whole convention and this part of his campaign on his 4 months of service in Vietnam. If he wants to make this a big part of his campaign then he opens himself up to people who have a different opinion of what he did in Vietnam... You can't put a big focus on your service in Vietnam and then expect nobody to talk about it...
Edward I am in complete agrement with exception of last paragraph.I don't think either Bush or Kerry can come up with easy solution without robbing peter to pay paul. Its a catch 22.
Dogs My thread is asking a question. In all due respect you dodged mine and asked one of your own.
Out source jobs leading to high medical cost per PPS. Errors in what should be in medical records are occurring at alarming rates. It's the basic use of English not handle as it should be in place such as Malaysia/India to mention two. They are getting names of drugs and what aliments the patients have wrong. These are leading to more mistakes in the operating rooms and treatments for patient here. This is leading to more law suites. These medical records having entires placed in them by these overseas workers are becoming deadly.
Clem
"Why can't anyone find someone that served with W?"
I assume W is Bush --correct.
I don't think anyone is looking for or interested in who served with Bush.
Its wouldn't be of much interest on a National guard stint especially in light of he has never made it an issue in campaigning and understandably so.
Lets say for the sake of arguement and use worst scenerio--someone pulled strings and he did not have to report as often as others--so what???
"Why can't anyone find someone that served with W?"
I assume W is Bush --correct.
I don't think anyone is looking for or interested in who served with Bush.
Its wouldn't be of much interest on a National guard stint especially in light of he has never made it an issue in campaigning and understandably so.
Lets say for the sake of arguement and use worst scenerio--someone pulled strings and he did not have to report as often as others--so what???
That should be even more of a reson for him to condemn these ads and this group. Thing is he can't, because they are his people.
August 20, 2004
"The Mother of All Backlashes"
"Out of desperation, the Bush campaign has picked the wrong fight with the wrong veteran," said Jim Jordan, former Kerry campaign manager who now runs an outside group airing ads against Bush. "Today's the start of the mother of all backlashes."
Kerry Campaign Hires New Spokesman to Handle SwiftVets' Allegations
Q. It has now been established, and tacitly admitted by the Kerry Camp, that John Kerry was never in Cambodia as he has repeatedly claimed over the years. Do you believe this diminishes Senator Kerry's credibility and/or capacity to act as commander-in-chief?
A. (Kerry Spokesman Muhammed Saeed al-Sahaf, aka "Baghdad Bob"): These are a pack of crusader lies. Lies and fabrications of the warmonger Bush. John Kerry was in Cambodia on Christmas. John Forbes Kerry lived in Cambodia for six months, deployed deep behind enemy lines, disguising himself for weeks on end as a disused highway men's lavatory. John Forbes Kerry lived in a pool of his own filth for months in order to secure his great victory over the Infidel Invaders of Cambodia.
His own filth, and that of others, Allah be praised.
Q. Changing the subject a little, John Kerry admits, in broad outlines, that the SwiftVets' account of the sampan engagement is true. He admits that an unarmed woman and infant child were shot to death on the sampan. And yet John Kerry's official after-action-report -- submitted to the Navy as the officially sworn account of events -- makes no such mention of the killed woman and child. This would seem to be an intentional omission, almost certainly unethical, and likely illegal. How do you respond?
A. Lies, lies, outrageous lies concocted by the Jew minions of the Jew Satan!!! John Forbes Kerry scored a magnificent victory over that unarmed woman and infant! Let the Rolls of Honor kept by Mohammed himself record that John Forbes Kerry acted like a Lion of Baghdad when he shot that child! It made a threatening motion.
Q. What sort of threatening motion?
A. It blew a spit-bubble, and then it shat itself.
Q. Is that really threatening?
A. Have you ever changed a diaper? You must deal firmly with these little stinkers. Next question.
Q. The SwiftVets allege that two of John Kerry's Purple Hearts were awarded for injuries sustained from something other than hostile fire, and that furthermore both of these injuries were extraodinarily superficial, and not the sort of injuries typically deserving of a citation. The number of men stating that there was no hostile fire on these occasions greatly exceeds the number of men stating that there was. Do you have a response?
A. I would like to respond to that question with a two-part answer.
Part One. There was hostile enemy fire on both occasions. The sky was so full of bullets and shells that, by Allah, the very sun was blotted from the sky, and the earth shrouded in deathly shadow. Furthermore, John Forbes Kerry's injuries were severe. His head was taken clean off by an RPG fired by the Infidel Cong. It took him three weeks to recover.
Part Two: There are no infidels in Baghdad! None! It is all a concoction of the Zionist entity! By Allah's grace, the entrails of the miscreants will roast in hell for the very blasphemy of this lie!!!
Q. That's non-responsive.
A. No, YOU are non-responsive! You will burn in the fires of the unclean for your impudence.
Q. Thank you for your time.
A. And thank you for your time. If you need a transcript of this interview, I will have it ready for you within the hour. Now, good day to you all.
(as press conference breaks up)
How did I do?
Q. Better than ever. Good to have you back.
A. Thank you very much. I'm just so tickled to be back on CNN.
Oh, and all of your bodies will rot and fester in the graveyards that are the Iraqi deserts. But I think that much is obvious.
"The Mother of All Backlashes"
"Out of desperation, the Bush campaign has picked the wrong fight with the wrong veteran," said Jim Jordan, former Kerry campaign manager who now runs an outside group airing ads against Bush. "Today's the start of the mother of all backlashes."
Kerry Campaign Hires New Spokesman to Handle SwiftVets' Allegations
Q. It has now been established, and tacitly admitted by the Kerry Camp, that John Kerry was never in Cambodia as he has repeatedly claimed over the years. Do you believe this diminishes Senator Kerry's credibility and/or capacity to act as commander-in-chief?
A. (Kerry Spokesman Muhammed Saeed al-Sahaf, aka "Baghdad Bob"): These are a pack of crusader lies. Lies and fabrications of the warmonger Bush. John Kerry was in Cambodia on Christmas. John Forbes Kerry lived in Cambodia for six months, deployed deep behind enemy lines, disguising himself for weeks on end as a disused highway men's lavatory. John Forbes Kerry lived in a pool of his own filth for months in order to secure his great victory over the Infidel Invaders of Cambodia.
His own filth, and that of others, Allah be praised.
Q. Changing the subject a little, John Kerry admits, in broad outlines, that the SwiftVets' account of the sampan engagement is true. He admits that an unarmed woman and infant child were shot to death on the sampan. And yet John Kerry's official after-action-report -- submitted to the Navy as the officially sworn account of events -- makes no such mention of the killed woman and child. This would seem to be an intentional omission, almost certainly unethical, and likely illegal. How do you respond?
A. Lies, lies, outrageous lies concocted by the Jew minions of the Jew Satan!!! John Forbes Kerry scored a magnificent victory over that unarmed woman and infant! Let the Rolls of Honor kept by Mohammed himself record that John Forbes Kerry acted like a Lion of Baghdad when he shot that child! It made a threatening motion.
Q. What sort of threatening motion?
A. It blew a spit-bubble, and then it shat itself.
Q. Is that really threatening?
A. Have you ever changed a diaper? You must deal firmly with these little stinkers. Next question.
Q. The SwiftVets allege that two of John Kerry's Purple Hearts were awarded for injuries sustained from something other than hostile fire, and that furthermore both of these injuries were extraodinarily superficial, and not the sort of injuries typically deserving of a citation. The number of men stating that there was no hostile fire on these occasions greatly exceeds the number of men stating that there was. Do you have a response?
A. I would like to respond to that question with a two-part answer.
Part One. There was hostile enemy fire on both occasions. The sky was so full of bullets and shells that, by Allah, the very sun was blotted from the sky, and the earth shrouded in deathly shadow. Furthermore, John Forbes Kerry's injuries were severe. His head was taken clean off by an RPG fired by the Infidel Cong. It took him three weeks to recover.
Part Two: There are no infidels in Baghdad! None! It is all a concoction of the Zionist entity! By Allah's grace, the entrails of the miscreants will roast in hell for the very blasphemy of this lie!!!
Q. That's non-responsive.
A. No, YOU are non-responsive! You will burn in the fires of the unclean for your impudence.
Q. Thank you for your time.
A. And thank you for your time. If you need a transcript of this interview, I will have it ready for you within the hour. Now, good day to you all.
(as press conference breaks up)
How did I do?
Q. Better than ever. Good to have you back.
A. Thank you very much. I'm just so tickled to be back on CNN.
Oh, and all of your bodies will rot and fester in the graveyards that are the Iraqi deserts. But I think that much is obvious.
I wonder how long it will take em to catch this one--
Just released a few hours ago by AP.
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=514&e=1&u=/ap/20040822/ap_on_el_pr/kerry_ads
"Kerry also picked up support from Wayne D. Langhofer, who told The Washington Post he was manning a machine gun in a boat behind Kerry's and saw firing from both banks of a river as Kerry dived in to rescue Special Forces soldier James Rassmann, the basis for Kerry's Bronze Star."
funny that all accounts including Rassmans is different in that he climbed cargo net and was pulled in boat and now this clown comes forward and saw him dive in water.
"Kerry must have seen me in the water and directed his driver, Del Sandusky, to turn the boat around. Kerry's boat ran up to me in the water, bow on, and I was able to climb up a cargo net to the lip of the deck. But, because I was nearly upside down, I couldn't make it over the edge of the deck. This left me hanging out in the open, a perfect target.
"John, already wounded by the explosion that threw me off his boat, came out onto the bow, exposing himself to the fire directed at us from the jungle, and pulled me aboard."
Oh what an entangled web we weave----
Just released a few hours ago by AP.
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=514&e=1&u=/ap/20040822/ap_on_el_pr/kerry_ads
"Kerry also picked up support from Wayne D. Langhofer, who told The Washington Post he was manning a machine gun in a boat behind Kerry's and saw firing from both banks of a river as Kerry dived in to rescue Special Forces soldier James Rassmann, the basis for Kerry's Bronze Star."
funny that all accounts including Rassmans is different in that he climbed cargo net and was pulled in boat and now this clown comes forward and saw him dive in water.
"Kerry must have seen me in the water and directed his driver, Del Sandusky, to turn the boat around. Kerry's boat ran up to me in the water, bow on, and I was able to climb up a cargo net to the lip of the deck. But, because I was nearly upside down, I couldn't make it over the edge of the deck. This left me hanging out in the open, a perfect target.
"John, already wounded by the explosion that threw me off his boat, came out onto the bow, exposing himself to the fire directed at us from the jungle, and pulled me aboard."
Oh what an entangled web we weave----
also from article above (1700 word-1st person recount)
""The critics have taken pains to say they're not trying to cast doubts on the merit of what others did, but their version of events has splashed doubt on all of us," Rood said in a 1,700-word first-person account published in Sunday's edition of the Tribune. "It's gotten harder and harder for those of us who were there to listen to accounts we know to be untrue, especially when they come from people who were not there."
Here is his recount which I am sure will be on every liberal media front page but lets examine it what it says and don't say.
1st why does he now come out with this---could immediately jump on band wagon and do what they did to swiftboat people and say he works for VERY liberal paper and job security or promotion but somehow I suspect differntly in that he would then put himself on hot seat of collaborating with Kerry at time of incident and may have gotten a "few medals" himself that day.We'll see what comes out later.
Here is his article in Tribune today--you'll see a Bunch of recounts Monday.
http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/editorial/outlook/2751074
You will note in his account that they decided to charge these small bands of VC knowing that they use hit and run tactics and they would undernormal circumstances disperse. I there 1st encounter that day where theyhad VC body counts "the 1st time we took fire" the troops they carried jumped off the boat --not themselves
"It happened again, another ambush" which was Kerry's incident he received Silver Star for"
Anyone note any difference--wheres the body count except for the one lone VC??? Logic tells me its for same reason that they didn't dock and get off in 1st encounter that day as that LZ (landing zone ) was hot(taking fire).
The second "when" they docked and Kerry,Rood and others left there boats docked in plain view and sitting ducks and got off it's because the LZ was basically secure not hot.
he states
"With our troops involved in the sweep of the first ambush site, Richard Lamberson, a member of my crew, and I also went ashore to search the area. I was checking out the inside of the hooch when I heard gunfire nearby."
Evidently he hadn't heard any other gunfire as he walked around.
and I found it odd he can't recall if the VC was wounded prior---
"Some who were there that day recall the man being wounded as he ran. Neither I nor Jerry Leeds, our boat's leading petty officer with whom I've checked my recollection of all these events, recalls that, which is no surprise."
yet he is certain how he was dressed and what age he was--
"John O'Neill, author of a highly critical account of Kerry's Vietnam service, describes the man Kerry chased as a "teenager" in a "loincloth." I have no idea how old the gunner Kerry chased that day was, but both Leeds and I recall that he was a grown man, dressed in the kind of garb the VC usually wore."
Dejavu-- child/loincloth bit comes out days after I mention same
In a nutshell I do not change my opinion of my thoughts on award of silver star the 1st time I commented on it prior to Swift Boat report.
He got a highly coveted award for jumping off boat and finishing off lone vc in benign environment.
Believe me officers and others do NOT walk around hot LZ's gathering sovineers and gawking around except in the movies.Such things as well as body counts ect happen after LZ is secure.
""The critics have taken pains to say they're not trying to cast doubts on the merit of what others did, but their version of events has splashed doubt on all of us," Rood said in a 1,700-word first-person account published in Sunday's edition of the Tribune. "It's gotten harder and harder for those of us who were there to listen to accounts we know to be untrue, especially when they come from people who were not there."
Here is his recount which I am sure will be on every liberal media front page but lets examine it what it says and don't say.
1st why does he now come out with this---could immediately jump on band wagon and do what they did to swiftboat people and say he works for VERY liberal paper and job security or promotion but somehow I suspect differntly in that he would then put himself on hot seat of collaborating with Kerry at time of incident and may have gotten a "few medals" himself that day.We'll see what comes out later.
Here is his article in Tribune today--you'll see a Bunch of recounts Monday.
http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/editorial/outlook/2751074
You will note in his account that they decided to charge these small bands of VC knowing that they use hit and run tactics and they would undernormal circumstances disperse. I there 1st encounter that day where theyhad VC body counts "the 1st time we took fire" the troops they carried jumped off the boat --not themselves
"It happened again, another ambush" which was Kerry's incident he received Silver Star for"
Anyone note any difference--wheres the body count except for the one lone VC??? Logic tells me its for same reason that they didn't dock and get off in 1st encounter that day as that LZ (landing zone ) was hot(taking fire).
The second "when" they docked and Kerry,Rood and others left there boats docked in plain view and sitting ducks and got off it's because the LZ was basically secure not hot.
he states
"With our troops involved in the sweep of the first ambush site, Richard Lamberson, a member of my crew, and I also went ashore to search the area. I was checking out the inside of the hooch when I heard gunfire nearby."
Evidently he hadn't heard any other gunfire as he walked around.
and I found it odd he can't recall if the VC was wounded prior---
"Some who were there that day recall the man being wounded as he ran. Neither I nor Jerry Leeds, our boat's leading petty officer with whom I've checked my recollection of all these events, recalls that, which is no surprise."
yet he is certain how he was dressed and what age he was--
"John O'Neill, author of a highly critical account of Kerry's Vietnam service, describes the man Kerry chased as a "teenager" in a "loincloth." I have no idea how old the gunner Kerry chased that day was, but both Leeds and I recall that he was a grown man, dressed in the kind of garb the VC usually wore."
Dejavu-- child/loincloth bit comes out days after I mention same
In a nutshell I do not change my opinion of my thoughts on award of silver star the 1st time I commented on it prior to Swift Boat report.
He got a highly coveted award for jumping off boat and finishing off lone vc in benign environment.
Believe me officers and others do NOT walk around hot LZ's gathering sovineers and gawking around except in the movies.Such things as well as body counts ect happen after LZ is secure.
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Dtb, with all due respect, if you think the above recollections are contradictory, have you taken a look at George Elliott s?? If you can make any logic whatsoever regarding his constant rebuttals please let me know.
Lets say for the sake of arguement and use worst scenerio--someone pulled strings and he did not have to report as often as others--so what???
If Senator Kerry Service in Vietnam is scrutinized inside out up and down why isn't Bush s?? I already know you are going to say "because Kerry made Vietnam a issue" so what? Words or sentences make issues?? That book was going to be printed long before Kerry made his convention speech. Because Bush doesn't tout his service nobody should check into it? Nobody should check into any politicians background unless the specific subject is brought up by the politician? Sorry that strategy sounds assanine to me. What if we found candidate X. 2 be a convicted felon, nobody checks or makes it relevant unless candidate X. starts talking about prisons??
Dtb, what if it in fact is worse than someone getting Bush off a list, what if he continually exhibited poor conduct & attendance at his guard station? What if he never took his service seriously, acted non responsibly and was continually absent. This isn't important or telling of his character? What if he did actually have a drug or alcohol habitual problem, this isn't as important as whether Kerry was or was not in Cambodia?? Sorry, but I think some are way off here.
Lets say for the sake of arguement and use worst scenerio--someone pulled strings and he did not have to report as often as others--so what???
If Senator Kerry Service in Vietnam is scrutinized inside out up and down why isn't Bush s?? I already know you are going to say "because Kerry made Vietnam a issue" so what? Words or sentences make issues?? That book was going to be printed long before Kerry made his convention speech. Because Bush doesn't tout his service nobody should check into it? Nobody should check into any politicians background unless the specific subject is brought up by the politician? Sorry that strategy sounds assanine to me. What if we found candidate X. 2 be a convicted felon, nobody checks or makes it relevant unless candidate X. starts talking about prisons??
Dtb, what if it in fact is worse than someone getting Bush off a list, what if he continually exhibited poor conduct & attendance at his guard station? What if he never took his service seriously, acted non responsibly and was continually absent. This isn't important or telling of his character? What if he did actually have a drug or alcohol habitual problem, this isn't as important as whether Kerry was or was not in Cambodia?? Sorry, but I think some are way off here.
I am inclined to believe there is distinct possibilty George got preferential treatment on leaves while in the quard--but that is not AWOL as some body was doing the pay vouchers and a person that is technically AWOL would be noticed in short order.
---and the kerry issue is an entire horse of a different color.I just tell it the way I see it from perspectic of logic without being there and have been pretty well in line with my assertions long ago prior to swiftboat releases on the probabilities of what made no sense.
Also in kerry's defence on issues I thought made no sense of Swift boat claims such as child in loin cloth. If an enemy is carrying a weapon to use against you I don't care how old he is or where he was shot. I would take issue if he was seriously wounded and defenseless and then shot but from what I have gathered only one person knows that for sure and have to give him the benefit of doubt.One other thing on Kerry I have never made mention of is the ordeal of the old man and child they shot. The reason is I think this accusation is way out of line. Granted they apparently did shoot them and Kerry did omit it from his report but it is totally in line casualties of war.1st they were not aware of them being in boat and definately were not shot on purpose and I do not think anyone else would include such an unfortunte accident in their report.
There has been exaggerations to my thinking on both sides--but the bottom line in my view you don't make an issue or campaign of being wounded 3 times when they amount to scraps and bruises and I have seen nothing on accounts from both sides that would warrent medals for valor.I come away with little doubt he was an opportunist with political ambitions.On the cambodia issue--You have Kery completely fabricating a lie--and then comes back and saids maybe he got dates mixed up. How do you get Christmas confused with another date,really.
Read this report today in post that I thought was pretty non partisan however I as with most what they print is a times not as important as what was omitted. A lot hinges on who wrote initial report--and while a point is made they have no written evidence that Kerry filed report they have no written evidence he did not file report either. Here is article---
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tm...ashpost/20040822/ts_washpost/a21239_2004aug21
---and the kerry issue is an entire horse of a different color.I just tell it the way I see it from perspectic of logic without being there and have been pretty well in line with my assertions long ago prior to swiftboat releases on the probabilities of what made no sense.
Also in kerry's defence on issues I thought made no sense of Swift boat claims such as child in loin cloth. If an enemy is carrying a weapon to use against you I don't care how old he is or where he was shot. I would take issue if he was seriously wounded and defenseless and then shot but from what I have gathered only one person knows that for sure and have to give him the benefit of doubt.One other thing on Kerry I have never made mention of is the ordeal of the old man and child they shot. The reason is I think this accusation is way out of line. Granted they apparently did shoot them and Kerry did omit it from his report but it is totally in line casualties of war.1st they were not aware of them being in boat and definately were not shot on purpose and I do not think anyone else would include such an unfortunte accident in their report.
There has been exaggerations to my thinking on both sides--but the bottom line in my view you don't make an issue or campaign of being wounded 3 times when they amount to scraps and bruises and I have seen nothing on accounts from both sides that would warrent medals for valor.I come away with little doubt he was an opportunist with political ambitions.On the cambodia issue--You have Kery completely fabricating a lie--and then comes back and saids maybe he got dates mixed up. How do you get Christmas confused with another date,really.
Read this report today in post that I thought was pretty non partisan however I as with most what they print is a times not as important as what was omitted. A lot hinges on who wrote initial report--and while a point is made they have no written evidence that Kerry filed report they have no written evidence he did not file report either. Here is article---
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tm...ashpost/20040822/ts_washpost/a21239_2004aug21
Kerry's thigh has shrapnel, records show
Wound sustained in Vietnam War
By and Michael Kranish, Globe Staff April 24, 2004
WASHINGTON -- Senator John F. Kerry has shrapnel in his left thigh as a result of an injury sustained in the Vietnam War, according to medical records displayed by his presidential campaign yesterday. The records include notations for wounds for all three Purple Hearts, as well as for two bouts of pneumonia and "a minor non-specific urinary tract infection."
The shrapnel still in Kerry's thigh stems from a Feb. 20, 1969, attack for which he was awarded his second Purple Heart. Kerry has said none of the three Purple Heart wounds cost him more than a couple of days of service. Kerry was able to leave combat six months early under Navy regulations that allowed a thrice-wounded sailor to depart Vietnam early.
Asked yesterday whether the thigh bothers him, Kerry told reporters on his campaign plane: "Only when it rains."
The Kerry campaign removed a 20-page batch of documents yesterday from its website after The Boston Globe quoted a Navy officer who said the documents wrongly portrayed Kerry's service. Edward Peck had said he -- not Kerry -- was the skipper of Navy boat No. 94 at a time when the Kerry campaign website credited the senator with serving on the boat. The website had described Kerry's boat as being hit by rockets and said a crewmate was injured in an attack. But Peck said those events happened when he was the skipper. The campaign did not respond to a request to explain why the records were removed.
The medical records displayed by the campaign yesterday were shown to a small group of reporters and were not publicly released. The campaign arranged for Kerry's personal physician, Gerald J. Doyle, to analyze the records. Doyle, asked to characterize the severity of Kerry's injuries in Vietnam, said his opinions were based on medical records because he did not see the wounds at the time.
Of the wound that led to Kerry's first Purple Heart, in December 1968, Doyle said Kerry had shrapnel removed from his left arm above the elbow. Doyle noted that the shrapnel penetrated the skin but that there was no description of the size of the wound in the medical records.
As for the shrapnel still in Kerry's thigh, Doyle said removal of the shrapnel would have required a wide incision in the leg. "A decision was made to leave the shrapnel in place," Doyle said.
Kerry had two bouts of pneumonia recorded in the documents, and Doyle said Kerry has had pneumonia once in the last 18 years. Doyle said Kerry has a history of allergies -- pollen, mold, and hay fever, in particular -- and that people with allergies often are susceptible to developing illnesses that can lead to pneumonia.
According to Doyle's review of the medical records, Kerry also developed "a minor non-specific urinary tract infection" during his military service. It responded to antibiotics, Doyle said. Asked how Kerry developed the infection, Doyle said: "We discussed it. He had no recollection of it. It's not a very significant thing when you're 22 years old. It's something that can happen to anyone at any time."
Nearly a year ago, the Kerry campaign said it would not provide the senator's military medical records, saying Kerry would not cross what he considered to be a line of privacy. Kerry said Sunday that his military records were available and invited inspection of them at campaign headquarters. But the campaign reversed course Monday, saying no new records would be released. Following GOP criticism, the campaign has been releasing records since Tuesday.
I wonder how you say "Hey, Cabbie- know where a guy can get a little action" in Viet Namese?
Wound sustained in Vietnam War
By and Michael Kranish, Globe Staff April 24, 2004
WASHINGTON -- Senator John F. Kerry has shrapnel in his left thigh as a result of an injury sustained in the Vietnam War, according to medical records displayed by his presidential campaign yesterday. The records include notations for wounds for all three Purple Hearts, as well as for two bouts of pneumonia and "a minor non-specific urinary tract infection."
The shrapnel still in Kerry's thigh stems from a Feb. 20, 1969, attack for which he was awarded his second Purple Heart. Kerry has said none of the three Purple Heart wounds cost him more than a couple of days of service. Kerry was able to leave combat six months early under Navy regulations that allowed a thrice-wounded sailor to depart Vietnam early.
Asked yesterday whether the thigh bothers him, Kerry told reporters on his campaign plane: "Only when it rains."
The Kerry campaign removed a 20-page batch of documents yesterday from its website after The Boston Globe quoted a Navy officer who said the documents wrongly portrayed Kerry's service. Edward Peck had said he -- not Kerry -- was the skipper of Navy boat No. 94 at a time when the Kerry campaign website credited the senator with serving on the boat. The website had described Kerry's boat as being hit by rockets and said a crewmate was injured in an attack. But Peck said those events happened when he was the skipper. The campaign did not respond to a request to explain why the records were removed.
The medical records displayed by the campaign yesterday were shown to a small group of reporters and were not publicly released. The campaign arranged for Kerry's personal physician, Gerald J. Doyle, to analyze the records. Doyle, asked to characterize the severity of Kerry's injuries in Vietnam, said his opinions were based on medical records because he did not see the wounds at the time.
Of the wound that led to Kerry's first Purple Heart, in December 1968, Doyle said Kerry had shrapnel removed from his left arm above the elbow. Doyle noted that the shrapnel penetrated the skin but that there was no description of the size of the wound in the medical records.
As for the shrapnel still in Kerry's thigh, Doyle said removal of the shrapnel would have required a wide incision in the leg. "A decision was made to leave the shrapnel in place," Doyle said.
Kerry had two bouts of pneumonia recorded in the documents, and Doyle said Kerry has had pneumonia once in the last 18 years. Doyle said Kerry has a history of allergies -- pollen, mold, and hay fever, in particular -- and that people with allergies often are susceptible to developing illnesses that can lead to pneumonia.
According to Doyle's review of the medical records, Kerry also developed "a minor non-specific urinary tract infection" during his military service. It responded to antibiotics, Doyle said. Asked how Kerry developed the infection, Doyle said: "We discussed it. He had no recollection of it. It's not a very significant thing when you're 22 years old. It's something that can happen to anyone at any time."
Nearly a year ago, the Kerry campaign said it would not provide the senator's military medical records, saying Kerry would not cross what he considered to be a line of privacy. Kerry said Sunday that his military records were available and invited inspection of them at campaign headquarters. But the campaign reversed course Monday, saying no new records would be released. Following GOP criticism, the campaign has been releasing records since Tuesday.
I wonder how you say "Hey, Cabbie- know where a guy can get a little action" in Viet Namese?
wonder how you say "Hey, Cabbie- know where a guy can get a little action" in Viet Namese?
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not sure, but I can imagine how you say "hey, limousine driver-know where a guy can get an a little action & some nose candy" in a silly Alabama drawl.
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not sure, but I can imagine how you say "hey, limousine driver-know where a guy can get an a little action & some nose candy" in a silly Alabama drawl.
