How much is enough?

[yyz]

How much is enough?

Really. How much is enough to be considered a decent win by you?

I look at casino gambling and this is what I feel:

People want more than is realistic.

Read that one more time, and see if you fit the bill.

I've seen countless folks run up to a BJ table, toss down $100, get 20 $5 chips, and go broke. Why? What was their goal? I started asking people what would be a "good" win, and shit my pants when I heard the answers.

"I don't know."-----"Oh, 2 or 3 hundred would be nice." Etc.

Yeah.....2 or 3 hundy would be outstanding! So would a hummer from the cocktail waitress!

I ask that same genius what he would think about leaving after he was up $10, and I get laughed at!

"I coulda stayed home and saved that in gas money!", they would reply. That is true, I tell them, but it is also a 10% return on your investment, Einstein. But you expect a 200-300% return, right? Good luck!

I've bought in for $1000 on several occasions, won $100 and split. Why not?! I know people who will put that same dime in a CD for a year to get that same $100, and they think thet are financial gurus because of it! But, take them to a casino, and they blow $500 in an hour.

I have made $200 with a dime start in as little as five minutes, and headed for the door. That was my goal, and I stuck to it.

Now, a lot of you would say that is a waste of my time, and why bother. Well let me set the table for you:

I live a one hour drive from a casino. So, round trip I log two hours on the road. Put that 5 minutes in the casino on there, and it totals 2hr and 5min of my time. Take out $5 for gas, and I am up $195 for that time.

That equates to $97.50 an hour!

Now, I don't know what you do for a living, but I don't make that much an hour! So, was that a "waste of my time"? Fck no!

Which brings me to my next point:

If you are satisfied working 40 hours a week to make 'x' amount of dollars per hour, you should be happy making that same amount per hour at a casino!

Now, with sports wagering, it is a little different. Some guys say, "I just want to show a profit at seasons end."

I think everyone here would raise their hand if I asked if that would be good enough. (Since most of us lose our asses!)

But, if that was really the case, everyone who won on the first weekend would quit for the year!

I have a goal when I go to a casino, but don't have a set goal on sports. That seems a little stupid. For some sad reason I expect to lose at sports. That is one of the reasons I bet small on games. The real stupidity about this, is that I keep playing! I do love the action, and must admit I am hooked on a bad thing. After all, would you put money in a stock that showed a loss year after year? Most likely not, but I guess the money I lose on sports is the price I pay for the rush of getting that occasional win.

So, you guys tell me......

How much is enough?

 

[prospector]

a nice 20% return per week.
that would be excellent.

10% would be fine too.

p.

 

[buddy]

How "much" is "enough?"

Two very nebulous terms!

Many investors would give anything for a 16% return.

$97.50 an hour is a nice wage.

"It's a marathon, not a sprint."

Minimum exposure of your bankroll and conservative wagering.

Money management IS the key.

Bet less when you're losing, bet SLIGHTLY more if you're on a warm streak.

The info provided on the internet has (supposedly) made us all wiser sportsbettors.

We can spout truisms all year long, but the fact remains that 97% of us will lose money this year in sportsbetting. Why?

Because none of us know...how "much" is "enough."

 

[scrubbo]

Think about it this way. If you go in with $1000 and win $100, 5 days a week for a year. You'll make an extra 26k per year.
You're right yyz. Everybody wants to hit the big payday instead of playing to win.
I do understand the "big Bang" theory if you only get to gamble a few times a year but for the 3-7 day a week gambler youre way is the only way.

 

[TORONTO-VIGILANTE]

how much is enough?

good question.

personally, when i "gamble" in sports, as long as i don't have a minus at the end of the day, i'm happy.

 

[cisco]

Same can be said for the stock market. When do you sell. What if you bought Microsoft, cisco or Dell in thier infancy and sold when the price doubled? You would have missed a great ride.
Same thing in the casino. I'm looking for that 10 bagger.(craps) Press it up a couple of times and start reaping rewards.

 

[AR182]

I agree with Toronto Vigilante,except I am primarily a football bettor so I will just slightly alter his answer.I consider it a good week as long as I am up at the end of the week.It does not matter what the amount is or the percentage of return.

 

[dawgball]

Great question, yyz.

I could actually use this advice this week. I am heading to Tunica and taking $1500 to gamble. At what profit level should I stop and consider it a good weekend.

I actually try and break this up into sessions. That way I don't ever lose control. I will probably break the money down into 10-$150 sessions. So at what level should I quit in each session?

This may help me come back with more money.

------------------
Sic 'em
dawgball

 

[buddy]

dawgball,

Just curious...If you play blackjack, are you familiar with "pyramid betting?"

 

[yyz]

Dawgball,

If you break it down into 10/150, be happy with $25

If you make it to +$25, get up, cash in your chips, and start over!

This sounds stupid to some people, but I promise you this....You will feel much better going to cash out a small win, than digging into "stash No. 2" to start recouping the 1st $150!

I play little games within the game. When I gat up in the morning I want to have breakfast, and read the paper. So, I go toss a quarter on a hand of blackjack, and if it wins, I have just been "comped" to chow! If I lose, I'll stick around for a little while longer to try and get to that +$25. If I do, great! Once again, I am off to eat. If it goes bad all of the way, I just lost one session....no big deal.

Enjoy the town, and find something to do besides gamble, or you will lose. Win quick, and run!

Have fun.

 

[djv]

YYZ what casino to you go to. Never know we might be able to share a table some time.
By the way answer to your question. I will take the small win anytime over the loss. I here so many folks say well I have 200 I can loose today. Great Thought. If they think that way im rather sure they will loose that 200. I just can't see sitting down with out a plan or the thought to win. I do not care to loose today. Seems the right idea.

 

[gsp]

I have to disagree to some extent. If you take 1000 with you I have to assume it's up for grabs. Now if you get up 100(10%) and go home, that's bad money management. One loser blows five winners and has you playing catch-up for a week. If you are saying that on a bad day you will blow the 1000 then you can't possiby win in the long run. I used to gamble with people who would quit 50 or 100 ahead but when they lost I had everything in their bank account. I loved gambling with those folks. If I have missed something, correct me. You are better off raising the amount you are willing to lose in relation to the amount you are ahead. Good luck at whatever you do.

 

[kneifl]

I always look for a 20% to 30% ROI. Thats fine by me!!!

kneifl

 

[Nick Douglas]

Eventually you will have a day where you lose the whole $1000 without ever being up. Table games are a bad bet, period. Unless you count cards on an elite level, you can't look at it as an investment or any way to make money. Therefore, if you are playing tables, you have to look at it as entertainment. You are giving your money to the house for the entertainment you get from gambling. If you get entertainment out of winning $100 from cashing $1000, that is good, and you will probably lose your money slower, but you will still lose it all in the end.

I know that may sound harsh but craps and roulette cannot be beat and blackjack can only be beat with card counting. Of course there is an exception to every rule and I am sure there are some gamblers out there who play very infrequently and happen to get lucky and win money, but unless you are Stanford Wong or someone like that, don't sit at a table with any sort of money management plan expecting to win. It will help you lose slower, but you will still lose.

 

[Korn]

YYZ, Interesting points... I've been a casino Junkie for the past month now... I used to go maybe once or twice every few months for fun... I would start with $100 and usually lose it all trying to win too much like you mentioned. Then about a month ago I went and made $400.... Went back the next day and introduced a friend to the game of Blackjack and I made another $600 and she made $400... The next day I went back and started with $200, dropped down to only $20 and somehow turned that into $1000... Went back the next day and I broke even while my friend made another $400... So over those few days we had some great luck on our side. But even with those days like that I still agree with your point YYZ that people's goals are too high and unatainable in the long run. Those few days of luck got us hooked at the casino and we've been there day after day. Unfortunatly those few days gave us a false sense of how high our goals should be and therefore in the past few weeks we'd usually leave the casino -$100. Instead of settling for a smaller win of say $100 we would always try push it into $300-$500 but would end up losing it. On those days, If we would have left when up $100 for the day we both would have a minimum of $1000 more each right now.

One question about your goals YYZ... Personally I think they are a little too small. If you go in with $1000, and walk out with $100 that is alright... But what if you don't make that $100 quick? Do you keep playing trying to make that $100? Do you keep playing until that $1000 runs out? If so that means you'd have to have a 91% winning ratio at the casino to break even. Meaning win the $100 10 times out of 11. And lose the $1000 1 out of 11. And chances are out of 11 trips to the casino there will be atleast once where you start off on a losing streak and have a tough time coming back. So i'm just curious about your thoughts on that.

Right now I feel a realistic goal is 50%... So If I start with $200 I will walk when up $100. That is what I feel comfortable with. But the past few weeks my goals have been way too high.

Another factor is the person's intentions of going to the casino. If you are going there for fun and only go like once or twice a year etc, then there is no reason to set a goal. You walk in with $100 or whatever, and see what you can do with it and if you lose fine, its just an entertainment expense. But if you are going there looking to make a profit and go often, then you must set "Realistic" goals like you mentioned.

About your note about Sports. My thoughts are reverse of yours. I feel more confident in making a profit on sports than I do at the casino. I don't expect to make much $$ at the casino but I keep going because I enjoy my time there. (and a little addicted

) Overall I have ended up about even so far.

GL and look forward to hearing your thoughts.

Korn

 

[yyz]

Great feedback, guys!

First...djv:

I go to Green Bay and play at Oneida. They have about 90 tables, so getting a game isn't hard. I only go about once every two months now, but come home to the good on most trips.

gsp & Nick:

I don't ever lose the whole wad. I like to know that I can still put gas in the car for the return trip! I have never had the urge to "blow it all", and by bringing more than I intend to risk, I will have that buffer. Also, the first time I come home "busted", I will be done forever. That is when I will know that I have lost sight of why I go.

I don't think you guys could be more wrong about being able to win at the game over the long haul if you have sufficiant funds.

It is very rare to not be up at some point in a casino. Albeit, it does happen, and it has happened to me on occasion.

I set a goal of winning 10-20% when I buy in at a table, and am willing to lose 30%. Now, that might ring odd to have a bigger loss goal than win goal, but I have made many a comeback in that 10% range.

Now, with a dime buy in, I aint getting rich. Hell, I couldn't even make a sound living at that rate. But, if you had that same $100,000 that people were tauting for pro sports wagering, knew a little something about the game, and were willing to accept $200-$300 a day as a profit goal? You could live happily ever after!

$200 a day. That is the "perfect world" scenario of course. You guys are correct in thinking that we will have some losing days. In fact....there will be plenty.

You can also play 400 hands of blackjack in an hour, and will flucuate to the desired goal a lot quicker than betting sports. While sports are truly a "long run" expectation, cards can get you your daily goal, quite literally, in minutes. That, in itself, would pose a problem for some people, as they want action, as well as monitary rewards. In that case....this is not for you.

So, if you did have that hundred grand, and took $3000 to the table, you would need a paltry 7% return to hit your goal. Betting green checks at a 2-8 spread
should have you at either one of your goals within 15 minutes. Not anywhere near enough time for you to get stupid, or get the casino pit critters leary about your play.

Korn:

Most of you questions should have been answered by this point, too.

Just remember, the smaller the goal you set, the easier it will be to attain. I set a goal that is reachable, and the money, to me, is a good amount.

Thanks again for the feedback, and continue to chime in.

 

[Korn]

If you set your loss % at 30% then wouldn't that be the same as buying in with $300 instead of $1000? Whats the point of buying in with $1000 if you're gonna stop when down $300? Same difference is it not?
Maybe i'm reading it wrong? Lemme know...

Glad to hear you've never lost it all yet...
If that 10%-20% is working then stick to it!
And I agree that most of the time you do get ahead atleast a little at the casino... But I have had days where I couldn't win a hand and never ever did get ahead.

GL
Korn

 

[Its Gravy]

Shoot..anything over what I started with I withdraw, no ?'s asked. I always keep my original deposit in the account. Personally learned not to "shoot the load" Works for me, I am just trying to make 300.00 per day for a month, for at least 9 mo out of the year. That = 81,000.00 playing small ball...

 

[yyz]

Yes, Korn....it would be the same in principle, but it is a little mind control game I play on myself.

Would you not feel shittier lossing the entire $300 that you brought, over losing $300 and still having $700 in you pocket? It might be splitting hairs to some, but I see it in a different light.

 

[snoozing]

Man, I hate to even discuss this. This stuff is tough and very addictive. Started as a 5 dollar BJ player and now I think any BJ table less than $100 is a total waste of time. I am the world's worst money manager. I have been up 10K at BJ table and blown it all plus a couple. When I was going 3-4 times a week I lost over 50K in a year. At one time I was up by 18K but kept pushing. There is such a rush having 2K on the table and doubling down, I cannot explain it. I can tell you this: IT IS NOT THE MONEY. It was the thrill and the sense of being well known by all the Bosses, Dealers, and regular players. Kind of like the old Sitcom, "Cheers", when Norm enters the room and everyone says almost in unison, NORM!!!".

That is why I quit going to casinos. I never played crap or any other games, and do not get the same feeling from sports capping: it is too much work and too slow. By the time I find a good wager in sports, I have found several of you guys that do not like it so I usually play it silently.

Another thing about sports capping is that after you go through a losing streak you become so uncertain of the stats that you begin to wonder if the games are fixed. I know that is not true but certainly have had the thought cross my mind. How can you lose when you are picking the best team with the best pitcher matchup, and the best bullpen playing at home. I like the suspense and love the action but would rather follow one of you hot cappers and wait till football.

I have a foolproof way of winning at football - I kinow only fools have foolproof methods but this has been wotking for me. I follow about 5 cappers and only bet if 3-4 of the 5 call the same game and no one goes the other way. It has worked for 3 years. Added Nolan last year as my 5th.

Great topic yyz. For most of us there is no such thing as enough because we are addicted to the rush and will eventually quit, or go broke (quit). You are one of the few who have the discipline to set your goals and stick too them.

As an aside, the most significant element that separates the top 500 paid executives (over a million a year) in the country from their just as bright but les successful fellow CEOs is that they write out their plan which includes measurable goals. If you do that and stick to it you can win. It is just that 98% of us will not - cannot - do this simple task.

Good thread.

Bill

Blame the poor splelling for all the edits - should have read it in the beginning.
[This message has been edited by snoozing (edited 07-30-2001).]

[This message has been edited by snoozing (edited 07-30-2001).]

[This message has been edited by snoozing (edited 07-30-2001).]