I love War you must understand we come first. Then we worry about the rest. Are you saying it's different up there. I mean do you think your government makes policies by asking first what will the USA think. Are we wrong at times yup. No ones perfect. Could we be wrong again yup. When we have a president that thinks English is a second language anything goes. But hey everything has it's cycles. If things get to bad we will help you all out.
I HAVE TO ASK THIS-
- Thread starter I LOVE WR
- Start date
WELL PUT DJV.
ALOT OF GUYS IN HERE TAKE ME THE WRONG WAY. IM JUST SICK AND TIRED AND EVEN SCARED THE WAY NORTH AMERICA HAS BEEN GOING. REMEMBER WE FOLLOW ALOT OF THE AMERICAN WAYS. I THINK WE ARE IN HUGE TROUBLE UNLESS WE START CLEANING UP OUR COUNTRIES. YOUNG CHILDREN ARE MORE F'D UP TODAY THEN 20 YRS AGO. AND I DO HAVE THE FEELING THAT JENNIFER LOPEZ AND BRITNEY SPEARS SHOVING SEX AND HALF NUDITY DOWN THEIR THROATS HAS TO BE STOPPED AND SOON. BUT THATS ANOTHER TOPIC.
ANYBODY THAT THINKS WE DONT NEED TO CLEAN UP WHAT OUR KIDS ARE ABLE TO SEE ON TV AND THE INTERNET IS JUST PLAIN SUICIDAL.
ALOT OF GUYS IN HERE TAKE ME THE WRONG WAY. IM JUST SICK AND TIRED AND EVEN SCARED THE WAY NORTH AMERICA HAS BEEN GOING. REMEMBER WE FOLLOW ALOT OF THE AMERICAN WAYS. I THINK WE ARE IN HUGE TROUBLE UNLESS WE START CLEANING UP OUR COUNTRIES. YOUNG CHILDREN ARE MORE F'D UP TODAY THEN 20 YRS AGO. AND I DO HAVE THE FEELING THAT JENNIFER LOPEZ AND BRITNEY SPEARS SHOVING SEX AND HALF NUDITY DOWN THEIR THROATS HAS TO BE STOPPED AND SOON. BUT THATS ANOTHER TOPIC.
ANYBODY THAT THINKS WE DONT NEED TO CLEAN UP WHAT OUR KIDS ARE ABLE TO SEE ON TV AND THE INTERNET IS JUST PLAIN SUICIDAL.
Nick, I do not see how Iraq was a threat to us. The plan to attack Iraq was in the Neocons thinking even before 9-11. For at least 11 years Saddam had not killed one American and did not have the means to do so. The sanctions where working. And how do we win this war in Iraq? We will never remove the insurgents. In fact they are growing in number every day. They had no ties with Al-Qaida but they do now. The was has been a disaster for the US. But for Halliburton it has been pretty good and it has been pretty good for the Saudi's because with sanctions scheduled to be lifted they no longer have to worry about Saddam glutting the market with cheap oil.
I ask you where is the cut off in American blood when this becomes not worth it?
I ask you where is the cut off in American blood when this becomes not worth it?
StevieD said:
12 years filling 400,000 mass graves with handcuffed women and children, 21 U.N. resolutions broken by Saddam, our jets dodging anti-aircraft fire for 2 years while patrolling the no-fly zones, U.N. inspectors constantly turned away and refused entry to certain facilities. You liberals are pathetic lol.
Yeah the sanctions were indeed working alright lol. :mj07:
"With respect to Saddam Hussein and the threat he presents, we must ask ourselves a simple question: Why? Why is Saddam Hussein pursuing weapons that most nations have agreed to limit or give up? Why is Saddam Hussein guilty of breaking his own cease-fire agreement with the international community? Why is Saddam Hussein attempting to develop nuclear weapons when most nations don't even try, and responsible nations that have them attempt to limit their potential for disaster? Why did Saddam Hussein threaten and provoke? Why does he develop missiles that exceed allowable limits? Why did Saddam Hussein lie and deceive the inspection teams previously? Why did Saddam Hussein not account for all of the weapons of mass destruction which UNSCOM identified? Why is he seeking to develop unmanned airborne vehicles for delivery of biological agents?Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), October 9, 2002
Congressional Record ? Sen. John F. Kerry
--------any thoughts on this?
Congressional Record ? Sen. John F. Kerry
--------any thoughts on this?
I love WR..."How did Vietnam improve the US". Well, it all depends on your view, but I would say the US sacrifice in Vietnam was crucial in demonsrating to the communists that the US was prepared to stand and fight and commit men on the ground to stop the spread of communism.
Vietnam was not in vain, and I honor the men who served there.
In general, to answer this thread, whether the Iraq war is worth it really depends on how you see the role of the US in the world at large. If you believe the US has an obligation to help poor unforunates in the world, you are likely to be supportive. If you tend towards isolationism, you will be horrified. Interestingly, there are many people on both sides in each party.
Vietnam was not in vain, and I honor the men who served there.
In general, to answer this thread, whether the Iraq war is worth it really depends on how you see the role of the US in the world at large. If you believe the US has an obligation to help poor unforunates in the world, you are likely to be supportive. If you tend towards isolationism, you will be horrified. Interestingly, there are many people on both sides in each party.
Nice post, English.
I will NEVER agree that Vietnam was good in ANY way - other than that we learned and haven't repeated anything quite like that since. I don't think we had to "show" the Communists anything. We had far more effective stands against the Soviets that never cost lives. We were a better and wealthier system - they were doomed to failure, with or without Vietnam.
For a while, it was general concencus that Vietnam was a mistake. I've noticed a bit of re-writing of history in recent years. Lots of rationalizations that Vietnam was a just war. I'll never buy those lies.
I will NEVER agree that Vietnam was good in ANY way - other than that we learned and haven't repeated anything quite like that since. I don't think we had to "show" the Communists anything. We had far more effective stands against the Soviets that never cost lives. We were a better and wealthier system - they were doomed to failure, with or without Vietnam.
For a while, it was general concencus that Vietnam was a mistake. I've noticed a bit of re-writing of history in recent years. Lots of rationalizations that Vietnam was a just war. I'll never buy those lies.
Ya know, if its really not about the oil in Iraq and if its really about freeing people and replacing tyranny with democracy don't you think someone oughta nudge W and tell him that there really are weapons of mass destruction in North Korea. I mean real ones.
Eddie
Eddie
Edward I'll let you in on little secret so do Russia-China-Pakistan-India and numerous more--but back to N Korea--who do you think is responsible for them getting nukes??? You liberals get in office--do nothing but give them aid for a promise and let them develop nukes--then want to turn around and whine the conservatives are doing enough about fixing your f---up
liberal logic is quite laughable--ya know what I mean?
liberal logic is quite laughable--ya know what I mean?
Nick and Englishman post very intelligent comments. We are in clear terms a democratic republic plain and simple. There are no true democracies in the world today because it is impossible to conduct business in a democracy unless the population is extremely small. Six months ago I said that this conflict with Iraq is not about oil and I will say again that we have not taken any Iraqi oil even though many politicians have suggested we use their oil to help defray our costs. Manson gave a brief yet poignant reply as to why we went in there. And Englishman had it right - Viet Nam was necessary to stop the spread of Communisim or at the least give the Communists something to think about. And, as I recall, France started the whole mess there and AS USUAL the US had to go in there when the French ran out. Is Bush handling this the proper way? Probably not - at least not to the satisfaction of many Americans. But there are no guidelines to follow. Each day brings more and different challenges. Without using that infallible hindsight, no one could have predicted what happened with any certainty except, in my opinion, that a democracy in Iraq will never happen. And Edward, you should remember the negotiations (bribes) the Dems engaged in to pacify Kim Jung Il. The fact that they gave in to his threats and posturing and that is one reason why they have a strong nuclear program today. He simply outfoxed our administration.
Clintons new enlightment on NK in recent speach in Japan
Clinton also said the United States should be firm but fair with North Korea. The impoverished, isolated state, which declared earlier this month that it had nuclear weapons, is believed to be seeking concessions in return for returning to the six-nation nuclear disarmament talks.
"I think the six-party talks are good," said Clinton. "America should talk firmly and make it clear that we will be a part of helping them build a modern economy, but they can't have it both ways. We have to make a deal."
Clinton said North Korea's recent revelation that it has nuclear weapons was likely a sign that the reclusive communist state was prepared to negotiate. That claim has not been verified independently.
"The real problem is North Korea feels its only leverage is to threaten to do what it does best: make bombs and build missiles. It is the most curious, reclusive place in the world. They can grow bombs, but not rice," he said.
--he wants to make another deal--yea right--and I hate to tell you this MR Clinton--they don't have to grow rice when you give it to them--they can use their entire roll for military.sheez
Clinton also said the United States should be firm but fair with North Korea. The impoverished, isolated state, which declared earlier this month that it had nuclear weapons, is believed to be seeking concessions in return for returning to the six-nation nuclear disarmament talks.
"I think the six-party talks are good," said Clinton. "America should talk firmly and make it clear that we will be a part of helping them build a modern economy, but they can't have it both ways. We have to make a deal."
Clinton said North Korea's recent revelation that it has nuclear weapons was likely a sign that the reclusive communist state was prepared to negotiate. That claim has not been verified independently.
"The real problem is North Korea feels its only leverage is to threaten to do what it does best: make bombs and build missiles. It is the most curious, reclusive place in the world. They can grow bombs, but not rice," he said.
--he wants to make another deal--yea right--and I hate to tell you this MR Clinton--they don't have to grow rice when you give it to them--they can use their entire roll for military.sheez
Yes folks work something out. Anything is better then nuke war. Since called part of the axes of evil they sure act different.
And of course while we dont talk to them there doing what? Sounds like building nukes.
And of course while we dont talk to them there doing what? Sounds like building nukes.
ferdville said:
Well put Fred. Clinton is the one who actually gave North Korea the technology for nukes, as well as medicine and food AND CASH. You never hear any liberals commenting about this. They systematically ignore facts and cry and whine and point fingers and blame the republicans instead.
:clap:
:clap:RAYMOND said:i may be a KNUCKLEHEAD , but my country come first and if my country call on me i will be there :mj14: i will defend my country and my fellow american right or wrong or indifferace, i was born
american and will die a american, and will alway defend my country :clap: and will never forget the people that die for my freedom . as if i am i KNUCKLEHEAD i am a pround one
god bless america and our troops and peace to the world :clap:
If it's not about oil???
If it's not about oil???
Is the US guarding the oil???Yes, but we have turned the oil back over to Iraq and they are in charge of it. So was it about oil? Hell no! If it was then they would not be in charge of it. Do you people not read or do you listen to your main stream media of ABC<CBS<NBC<CNN<MSNBC.
If it's not about oil???
Is the US guarding the oil???Yes, but we have turned the oil back over to Iraq and they are in charge of it. So was it about oil? Hell no! If it was then they would not be in charge of it. Do you people not read or do you listen to your main stream media of ABC<CBS<NBC<CNN<MSNBC.
Reading a lot of nationalistic material in this thread......all this "born American and die American and defend the country and follow my government into battle".....that's all great but it assumes that your government is right and we should be mindless sheep who don't question our government or its motives, just grab a rifle and the flag and wave both around.....
The prime example would be of Hitler rising to power and invading Poland and the rest of Europe and in the process turning most of it into a burned out graveyard killing millions of people. Am I supposed to think that a German during WWII should drop all thought about what he was actually doing and grab a flag with a swastika on it and march across Europe and kill millions of jews and then just go to sleep at night filled with patriotism towards the fatherland and the thought that he did a good days work? Absurd.
Some people treat patriotism like indisputable religious faith, and it truly needs more thought put into it than they give it. The notion that your government is always right has killed millions of people over the centuries that man has lived on this earth.
As far as wars go.......WWII had about 300,000% more to do with defending American freedom than Vietnam or Korea ever did. All Vietnam and Korea did was kill over 100,000 American troops fighting some other countries civil wars.....people point to stopping the spread of communism like it was some evil scourge or plague that was going to ooze into the pacific ocean and spread across California and infect the whole country. Not the case. The only threat that communism posed was that some other country would be living with a government that had more restrictions placed upon its citizens and more state control over economic issues. Communist countries can exist along with democratic nations on this planet, we had nothing to fear and our lifestyles in this country wouldn't have changed one bit if Vietnam was communist instead of democratic. All we did in Vietnam was piss money and lives away, the only good thing that happened was to the French, as they got bailed out of that jungle $hithole.
As far as spending money in the middle east trying to instill democracies and voting.....this is a gross waste of billions of dollars and lives that is useless and needless......too much religious history in that area of the world and endless fighting has been going on over there since two people lived next to each other to ever remotely think that things will change this time. Quit dreaming and get back to reality.
The government doesn't even talk about OBL anymore......this fighting terrorism thing is now little more than fighting nationalists who are opposed to the foreign occupation.....we'll be bringing body parts back for as long as we're over there from all the roadside bombs and suicide attacks......nothing more than has happened in the Israel/Palestine saga for decades......it's time to cut the losses and bring the boys back home and let the inevitable civil war happen over there.......
Time for the country to quit dumping billions of dollars into failed foreign pursuits while social security, rising health care expenses and other major problems exist in this country. Big brother USA has to take care of his own house for once and quit worrying about whether or not some Iraqi or some other foreigner is getting a chance to vote. Americans are paying billions of dollars and having nothing to show for it except for the problems in this country that keep getting worse. Sad but true that the infrastructure of Iraq will get rebuilt before the WTC buildings are ever rebuilt. I guess that's just the typical American politician holding up his promise to the American people...pardon the cynicism......
Freedom isn't free unless you're living somewhere on this planet where big brother USA is doing all the heavy lifting, heavy spending, and heavy dying on your behalf.
The prime example would be of Hitler rising to power and invading Poland and the rest of Europe and in the process turning most of it into a burned out graveyard killing millions of people. Am I supposed to think that a German during WWII should drop all thought about what he was actually doing and grab a flag with a swastika on it and march across Europe and kill millions of jews and then just go to sleep at night filled with patriotism towards the fatherland and the thought that he did a good days work? Absurd.
Some people treat patriotism like indisputable religious faith, and it truly needs more thought put into it than they give it. The notion that your government is always right has killed millions of people over the centuries that man has lived on this earth.
As far as wars go.......WWII had about 300,000% more to do with defending American freedom than Vietnam or Korea ever did. All Vietnam and Korea did was kill over 100,000 American troops fighting some other countries civil wars.....people point to stopping the spread of communism like it was some evil scourge or plague that was going to ooze into the pacific ocean and spread across California and infect the whole country. Not the case. The only threat that communism posed was that some other country would be living with a government that had more restrictions placed upon its citizens and more state control over economic issues. Communist countries can exist along with democratic nations on this planet, we had nothing to fear and our lifestyles in this country wouldn't have changed one bit if Vietnam was communist instead of democratic. All we did in Vietnam was piss money and lives away, the only good thing that happened was to the French, as they got bailed out of that jungle $hithole.
As far as spending money in the middle east trying to instill democracies and voting.....this is a gross waste of billions of dollars and lives that is useless and needless......too much religious history in that area of the world and endless fighting has been going on over there since two people lived next to each other to ever remotely think that things will change this time. Quit dreaming and get back to reality.
The government doesn't even talk about OBL anymore......this fighting terrorism thing is now little more than fighting nationalists who are opposed to the foreign occupation.....we'll be bringing body parts back for as long as we're over there from all the roadside bombs and suicide attacks......nothing more than has happened in the Israel/Palestine saga for decades......it's time to cut the losses and bring the boys back home and let the inevitable civil war happen over there.......
Time for the country to quit dumping billions of dollars into failed foreign pursuits while social security, rising health care expenses and other major problems exist in this country. Big brother USA has to take care of his own house for once and quit worrying about whether or not some Iraqi or some other foreigner is getting a chance to vote. Americans are paying billions of dollars and having nothing to show for it except for the problems in this country that keep getting worse. Sad but true that the infrastructure of Iraq will get rebuilt before the WTC buildings are ever rebuilt. I guess that's just the typical American politician holding up his promise to the American people...pardon the cynicism......
Freedom isn't free unless you're living somewhere on this planet where big brother USA is doing all the heavy lifting, heavy spending, and heavy dying on your behalf.
