If Baseball strikes.....

[scrubbo]

I'm done. I've been a big fan forever but, if those greedy son of a bitch, scumbags strike because they don't want to be tested for steroids,(I know there are other issues) I won't ever give them my money again.:thefinger :nono:

 

[ryson]

A agree with you scrubbo, it took me about 3 yrs. before I would even watch baseball after the last strike and I love the game too. What turned my stomach during the last strike is that the players hired people to picket the ballparks and didn't do it themselves. I guess you can't fit that many limo's in the parking lot.

just my .02

 

[fatdaddycool]

Keep in mind that the players are looking to benefit the whole not just themselves. I am a union member and always try to improve wages and conditions with every contract. I do not agree with the programs in my field and was and am willing to strike over them. Do not be fooled the owners are making money hand over fist and a whole hell of a lot more than they report. How would you feel if a cap was put on your salary for a few years. How would you like not to be able to improve your position financially. Prices in sports has not risen due to increasing salaries of players any more than the owners desiring to remain at a considerable profit margin has contributed. Just because you are a fan of sport do not forget that there is a business end of it also. Just because they are millionaires doesn't give you or anyone the right to call them names because they are improving their quality of life. The owner of a non competetive financially stricken team has the ability to sell the team or move the franchise, just like the guy selling Sabretts in Manhatton can move to another corner. The players ARE the product. Not the fans. If you dont like it don't watch, that is your right. Increasing their wage scale through collective bargaining is their right also. There is NO revenue sharing with Taco Bell and Taco Bueno is there, or Burger King and McDonalds. The best product and marketing will prevail in all business markets. If you want to protest something, how about corporate monopolies like the NFL. or NBA, or why not go bitch about the prices at Jack in the Box

 

[Neemer]

. How would you feel if a cap was put on your salary for a few years.

Would be fine and dandy if I was in the same type of financial situation that most professional athletes are. Really, what's the fuhking difference b/t $11 million and $13 million.


Do not be fooled the owners are making money hand over fist and a whole hell of a lot more than they report

Then why all the fuss about small city teams not making a profit b/c of all the stuff about TV revenue sharing? I don't think the balance sheet of the Royals, Expos, Marlins, & Pirates is anything that impressive. It's been noted numerous times that lots of these teams continue to lose money each and every year. I hadn't personally seen a financial statement of these organizations, but I'd have to side with the majority of people that agree they're not running any type of organizations that are making it hand over fist.

The owner of a non competetive financially stricken team has the ability to sell the team

Indeed, but it's gettin' harder and harder to find willing buyers. A fella better have VERY deep pockets if he plans on competing with the Yanks, Braves, etc....etc...etc....

The players ARE the product. Not the fans. If you dont like it don't watch, that is your right.

Without the fans, there is NO product........

 

[goofy]

well said Neemer. I've heard the "how would you like it if people put a limit on your salary and told you where to work" argument for a long time and it just doesnt fly.

"they only play for 10 years or so" blah blah blah.

look. the average HOUSEHOLD income in the US is about 50 G's. It'll take you twenty years to make a million at that rate and you'll never have any capital ability like if someone gave you a mil up front.

i agree baseball should have to open it's books but when 250 hitters are making millions, I don't see what they are complaining about.

Now Michael Strahan turning down a 17 million signing bonus cause it's spread over two years...now that really has merit...[sigh]

goof

 

[TexasBC6]

Just because they are millionaires doesn't give you or anyone the right to call them names because they are improving their quality of life.

Sure it does - f*ckin' crybabies

Half kidding. Anyways, what's up FDC, how ya been man?

 

[fletcher]

you need to know what your bitching about before you bitch,this isnot about the players this time. the union tried to get agreement before spring training. the owners are the ones who are not willing to bend at all, and they are full of shit about losing money because they arenot on paper it might look that way but true value they are doing fine. and the biggest problem is look who is running baseball hell like it or not he is still the owner of mil. even though papers are in someone elses name. thats your biggest joke.

players union has tried for the last month and ahalf to set up talks and the owners keep saying they do not have the dates open i still have lots of friends playing so i know the story. this is far from the players. its all about the owners they can go 3 years or more these owners have so much money it doesnot matter trust me. but your normal player under the union doesnot make mills each year you have aaa aa and so on and others who get paid by baseball who will be the ones that get hurt because they need there check each week they owners are set for life even if teams folded the owners will still have more then you or i will ever have.

this is an all out attempt to bust players union need to study and know alittle more before you pass judgement on baseball you should say the owners who are not baseball but run it and thats who is causing the problem and wants to bust union,and if they won't set down to table and get agreement done then the players have to walk out during season because its the only little way they can get the owners in the pocket.
if they play the whole season and post the owners rake in the cash and do a lock out and no player will get shit because its locked out. there is way more to baseball then what you see on tv much much more and those players and families will be the ones hurt and if you are only making min 225,000 for the year and have a family and kids do you think thats gone to last you to long no it won't.

 

[scrubbo]

Some great points by both Neemer and Fletcher.
Believe it or not I don't agree with the players or owners....I think they're both assholes.
The owners made the salary structure that baseball has today, they need to live with it. If a small market team can't compete then either find a new owner that can support the team or move to another city.

When corperate restaurants open, nobody kicks in any money to my business so I can compete with the Palms and Mortons of the world. If the marketplace can't support your business you've got to either move it or lose it.

The players are a bunch of fu#ing babies also. This steriod sh*t shouldn't even be an issue. Steroids should be illegal in all sports and why has it taken until the year 2002 for something to be done about it in baseball?
Fatdaddy: No dis on the unions. My buddy worked for Budweiser, in Jersey, and he got shat upon constantly. Whatever you do I'm sure you deserve all you can get.
I think baseballs bullshit is all a big pissing contest between Fehr and Selig.
And, how can Selig be the comissioner of baseball if his daughter took over his Milwakee franchise?
No conflict of interest? WTF?
I'm not sure baseball could recover from another deleted world series. it steams me to no end.

 

[cotton]

nicely said flecther, you are right about the owners being the ones to gain:moon:

 

[fletcher]

goofy your veiw is way off you looking at the players in the show and like i said there are a good bet just getting the 225,ooo not the 1.5 mil and up.

but there are way more minor players and coaches then in the show. your basic single a contract is a flat 850 amonth with 200 taken out each month for room and board that leaves you with 650 a month ,you might get a structure something like this in bouns mony move up 1 class 1,000 next class 2,500 the 7500 no liveable money till you reach aaa,then you must get min of 125,000 then that gives you an ok ck but when you get that high you have to have agent who is going to take 8-15% write off the top,a lot of you guys look at the a rods and other big names of the game but for every big name you have 30-40 850 guys trying to get their break so like i said you try to run a household on that and its very taxing on a family,the wives really have to bust the ass to give their partner a shot or your parents are still passing out cash so you can make it and they donot get a tax break because their son is now working least most get 80/20 full blue cross blue shiled year round and 100% on field but its not like these guys have lloyds covering them if they go down for life.

players that are drafted are done so on projection,where will the player be 5 years from now if they pan out and have room above or get traded to another team then you can make a living but till then it is a scrape trust me on this. its not the glamor you all seem to think.

and there are rules about drug use and structures on how the owners can decrease you contract by not living up to i know i will spell this wrong hell i have trouble with 7 letter words but the key phrase where they can rake you is moral turptatude. and the owners would slice and dice you to death so its not as easy as peeing in a cup and say ok i was wrong there has to be a standerd of just process. its ugly been throught it and the biggest cry baby the owner from the rangers is the one who is guilty by far more then anyone. everyone says george buys his team because he has all the money well that is wrong he is in the lower end of the owners when it comes to net worth,hell you have major corps disney and others who run teams,he just is willing to spend his money to have a top of the line product. till they get rid of rules by owners who make it a dicttatership and not a business its always going to be screwed,baseball player do have brains and arenot really hicks,you have more baseball players with there degrees then anyother sport so they do have some brains and no when they are being massed out,its almost like the teamsters strike in the early 90's where a firm trucking called overnite express was sent in to bust the union,that strike went on for along time and ruined familys not over nite but the union did win if you want to call it that because the small guy suffered and was forced to get another job and lot of them werenot in trucking nor did they ever get to the point they were at before,

its all screwed up and like i said its 99.9% of busting the union.

 

[Night Owl]

I'm not going to try and figure out who'd be to blame if there was another baseball strike. If the owners were to lock them out I guess that's there choice as owners (needless to say I wouldn't agree with it). The players, on the other hand, don't have the FIRST PHUCKING THING to strike over and that's all you really need to know!! If anybody can tell me one single reason why the players would EVER need to strike I'll gladly listen. But the reality of it is those guys DO NOT have bad working conditions and if you buy into any such theory that they do you're a damn fool.

Also, please don't give me this BS about how they should make trillions of dollars on end with no breaking point in sight. I know the owners are handing out these ridiculous contracts and if a player can -- and does -- get that, fine. It's well within his rights as the current "system" stands. But on the other hand, don't stand here and cry foul for these idiots because maybe some day they'll "ONLY" be able to make $5 mil/year instead of $15 mil/year. Guess what?? My job DOES have a cap, so to speak. Sure I could go somewhere and try and make more but I've had a handful of jobs and lo and behold at ALL of them you actually DID max out financially sooner or later.

And with that in mind, that's what should happen to baseball, too, in my opinion. Put a damn salary cap on the sport for once! Maybe that way the Yankees couldn't get every player they ever wanted every single freeking year and the balance between spending and revenues might have a chance of coming under some semblence of control league-wide :shrug:

Why the hell do you think football is such an awesome sport? Maybe because the competition between top and bottom is tighter? Maybe because just about every team has a chance to win and go far in the playoffs? (isn't the Pats Super Bowl title a little more refreshing than having the SAME TEAMS in the playoffs year in and year out in the other sports? Think about it........) Most of us love football, right? And it has a cap...which seems to work out Ok, no? So why not have a cap in baseball, too? Any good reasons?

Oh....and one other good reason football far surpasses baseball. They rarely ever strike! (Hope I didn't speak too soon on that) :nono:

Just my take

Night Owl

 

[fletcher]

night owl have you ever played pro ball i have,it has nothing to do at all about the mill$ men the fight is for the structure of the less paid players in the minors and the old time players that donot get shit from mlb,all i saw you talk about was the rich player in the show,well thats not the point and the players making all the cash said the would agree to a top point for stars but mlb has to raise the welfare money people get in the minors once again talking all about the big boys when its the small ones they are fight for,you have many guys in pro ball only making 175,000 to 225,000 check it out they all donot make 3-5 mill a year,also the pension fund for player from 1965 and below are what they are fighting for these guys get shit the same way as helth care covered by mlb. you just don't get it so i am not going to try to explain anymore,nfl and nba donot have minor teams nfl euro is co-op by the nfl not teams. mlb has more guys starting out making less money then you could get at a food store in vegas which is union and pays 11,25 an to start 850 a month is below povity line almost then you break it down by hours and it comes to less just 850 comes to 5.31 and hour so don't come in here and act like you know the facts cause i see that you don't,sounds like you listen to the tv and read the paper to much ,theres more bs in both of them that is far from the truth,and in ending your looking at the big boys not the whole picture.

boy talk about a shitty written post ,donot think will get a d+ on this if it was turned in.

ps not saying your veiw is wrong just saying your not looking at the whole picture and i am guessing that you donot know the whole way it works could be wrong but don't think so or you would of never did the write up like you did making it look like all about money and they are all rich.

 

[JT]

Agree 150% with fletcher. Perhaps some may think that someone who has played in the minors for several years deserves nothing that it is his longshot choice to try and make it, however I myself think they given to the game as a whole and deserve to be taken care of in regards to better pension, benefits and salary. Ditto for the oldtimers. On the steroids issue, would be curious about your take there fletcher. Anyway, SOLIDARITY BROTHERS! :Yep:

 

[MadJack]

some stars in the minors do just fine. if not, find another job. it's part of the process. if you don't think you'll make the big show find other work

cap the salaries off. pay these bums by their present performance, not their past performance.

they get way too much and the ones that are struggling with the 150k-250k, find other work if you don't like it.

if the money is in 'owning' a team, buy your own team then

 

[fatdaddycool]

Night owl, tho other guy and Jack (which honestly suprised me),
Understand one thing, the players are in a union which is recognized as an affiliated players union. Yes the money is in owning a team, that does not mean anyone can buy one nor does it mean it is ok for them to dictate how high a salary can be raised. Jack, let me ask you this....Dogface has a site similar to yours, yet not as large or probably as profitable at this point....do you feel you should send him some money,(this being said without knowing if Jack actually makes any money on this site or not..so don't get ruffled), and revenue share with him. Or are you in a business like all others that are cutthroat and the best man wins the customers. Baseball has been exempt from all anti-trust laws since they were put in place. The owners are allowed to operate out from under the umbrella of laws that all other business owners must adhere to. They are given an exemption. Whether or not you feel A-Rod makes too much isn't the point.

Let me explain...Unions are based on the premise of the best working conditions of the whole, not the few. For every Millionaire there are twenty paupers in the minors trying to make a living. Not one of them gets the opportunity to come to your place of work and point out your deficiencies as an employee and then shout to your employer that you make to much. The owner of a baseball team has the option to pay or not to pay. If Milwaukee is so poor why hasn't Selig tried to sell? What about the owner of the Angels, was he not caught paying his sister a 65,000,000 dollar a year salary and she is quadripalegic and is confined to her bed, yet you still think that Lance Berkman at 850,000 a year is overpaid. You need to look at all aspects of what the union is fighting for.

Also let me say this, the owners have been found guilty of collusion in the past. They consistently employ union busting tactics and are allowed to use inflammatory statements in order to undermine the unions that are negotiating in good faith.

I GUARANTEE IF THE OWNERS HAD TO DISCLOSE THEIR INCOME AS THE PLAYERS DO, THIS WOULD BE A NON ISSUE. Minn. is crying about being broke yet there are people lined up to buy the team......why do you think that is? The Chicago Tribune which owns the cubs is a billion dollar business. They have not put a winner on the field since 1908 yet they continue to be one of the highest money making teams in BB. They have not had to purchase a field in years, the owners get a cut of all sales including player replicas and cards yet the individual gets none.

I suggest you quit reading the papers and start understanding that this isn't a slight on you and the players are the ones that care about the game, because THEY HAVE BEEN DOING IT THEIR ENTIRE LIVES, the Owners however entered into baseball strictly as a business venture. If you want people to eat Steak at your restaraunt you better give them a good piece of meat, do you think that restaraunt owners should only be able to cap the chef's salary and then have that cap extend throughout the fine food industry thus preventing him from reaping the benefits of the work that he has done to improve the product that bears the owners name???? Are you kidding me....You want fixed salaries...move to Russia....if you are worried about ticket prices and game costs don't blame the players, blame the owners that consistently raise prices to ensure that their profit margin remains somewhere in the 178% range. Owners make a killing. Players make less than 30% of total revenue generated in BB. Try to find that in ANY OTHER business anywhere.....Quit remembering what Jim Rome said and get the facts.

 

[fatdaddycool]

Almost forgot

TexasBc6, Good bro how are you ....... I am heading to Cancun for a couple of days to chase skirts and spend some of my hard earned Union wages dude . YOu going to Super Bowl party?

give me a shout when you can
Cris

 

[MadJack]

fdc,

my opinion is not generated from what i read in the newspapers or what i saw on television because, frankly, i could care less about the issue.

my opinion is probably (most likely) an ignorant one, but it's how i feel with the limited knowledge i have on the subject.

off the top of my head, i think most of these players make way too much money for what they do. who cares what the owners make? it's none of the players' business. none, period!

if i own a lamp shade company and you sell lamp shades for me on a commission and i pay you 20%, take it or leave it. what *I* make has nothing to do with what you earn.

if i have another employee that i choose to pay 30% because he makes me more money at 30% than you do at 20%, that's MY business. you can hit the road if you don't like it.

and, no, i'm not going to share my lamp shade profits with "joe's lamp shades" who is my competitor down the road.

like i said, i have no idea what i'm talking about

blast away -- i'm making myself fair game :thefinger

 

[fatdaddycool]

Jack,
My point exactly, so that lampshade salesman that you are paying 30% because he is your best seller gets an offer from a rival lamp shader of 35% and has a resume to support the increase in pay yet he can't take the pay raise due to an owner imposed salary cap? Or do you collude with the owner of the rival company so as not to pay him thus have to come crawling back to you. No, why because it is illegal business practice, yet baseball owners do it all the time. That 20% guy also has the right to make as much as he can and if you as an owner decide you can do almost as well by just hiring a bunch of newbies and paying them 10%, only to realize customer satisfaction and return customers have fallen off significantly and you are in danger of losing your business, who is at fault. You, who thought that by underpaying the help causing them to go elsewhere and increasing revenue for the other guy and temporarily increasing your profit margin, only to have it fall flat on its face. Or the 30% guy that worked to become the best at his trade thus demanding a better wage and not receiving and therefore moving on. Who is at fault for your business that was once profitable now being unmarketable to the public or maybe someone looking to buy a lamp business. The fault lay directly with you. You increase his pay to a comfortable level and he continues to push your product, and sell at a high rate your business does well and guess what you can expand to other avenues which will increase your capital base. However, at no time will you be able to post a story in a newspaper saying how you paid this guy more than any other employee and he still left what a greedy bastard, its just poor little ole me the owner that wouldn't pay him 35% of my 1 mil a year business because I wanted 70% of 1 mil a year business instead of 65% of an increasing 1.5 mil a year business. Don't be fooled the owners bought into baseball because they are greedy and it's a lucrative tax shelter due to the anti trust laws. The players are playing the game because they love it and can make a livng doing it.. A good living....the same as everyone else would like to be doing.

 

[fletcher]

see jack you went to the ml min of the 225,000 or so ,trust me the is no when in the minore making great money,not intill triple a and that isnot concered minors its a major leauge contract then.

minors like i stated get 850 start out and work up to around 1600 a month till they get to triple a,you are looking at big boy prices in your response ,i still have a union card but should get better health care for what i put in and there are others that get less then me and some have no pension like i said didnot get that in minors till 1965. all of you guys don't understand and think its all about the big boys its not never was ,they are rich and are the ones fighting for players in the minors and guys like me with the health care and pensions. you guys are blind by what you hear not what you know and also by mlb players and there money not the minors and how they are treated i bet you would feel different if your son went off to play and that was his job but you had to shell out another 10-12 grand a year so he could live but you couldnot claim him on your taxes because he is employed by mlb for 850 amonth or 5.31 and hour thats a farce 850 a month. like i said you guys are talking about what you hear and see not one guy has spoken on what he knows well a few have . the players union is all we have present and former players and it willnot be broke due to owners and there greed.

why has the big money guys said fine to capp but take care of the minors and former players how they should,i have horse shit health care,i should be getting 80/20 and thats what they are fighting for. or at least 70/30 no the facts and what the fight is about. before you lay blame over half of you are brain washed i see by sports wrriters who don't know shit. bottom line is owners what to break union and players want better helth care and pensions for guys who are in the union and want guys fro 65 and below to be included in the union.

hats off to the few of you that get it. the ones that think they do find someone who has played and is a card carring member and you will get same response i am giving you i stand to not make more but better health care and way money is handled i do deserve better. hell they make money off my little bit i have comeing its a joke and seems you all or the most are stuck on the guys in the show and can't get off of that. thats far from it but thats who has to fight our battle because we can't hey hats off to them for taking care of us. and hats off to my union supporters who have spoke up. i belive in all unions and for all they stand for and always will.

 

[TexasBC6]

Fatty,

Doing good. Must be nice getting to head down to Cancun. Wish I was in your shoes right now.

As for the issue at hand, I can't say I know the intricacies of the MLB salary structure, nor do I know how much the lower tier players and minor leaguers make. My personal opinion is that anyone who gets to play baseball for a living doesn't have it all that bad. Sure there are plenty of guys that could use a little bigger check every couple weeks, but that means part of the MLB season and postseason has to get wiped out? Echoing the thoughts of some others - it's hard for me to imagine baseball in a better state of affairs after a strike then if they keep playing. I just think too many fans will say the hell with it, especially seeing as how this is coming not all that long after the stoppage in '94 (I think that was the year). Anyhow, good discussion all - good points from different people.