If Baseball strikes.....

[Neemer]

Are the owners not the ones that take all the risk? Think any of the players give a rat's ass if the stadium is 1/2 full? From an ego standpoint some probably do, but they damn sure don't have to worry if theyhr're going to get their paycheck on Friday. The owners are the ones who hang their nuts on the line, and its strictly up to them to see if their investment is going to pay off or not. Personally, I don't think ANY professional athlete should be concerned about what a particular owner is making or not making. Players should wake up every damn morning and pay homage to these folks b/c without them, they're selling insurance down the street.

I'm not a big fan of baseball b/c I don't live near a big enough city to accomodate a professional team. Closest thing to a home team we got down here is a 5hr. trip North, to see the Cincinatti Reds. I'll have to say however, if the players do again decide to strike, I believe it would be the final nail in the coffin for the industry as a whole. There will be many disgruntled fans pissed at both management and players.

 

[Neemer]

HISTORY OF MLB STRIKES


Year Stoppage Games
Missed Main issues
1972 Strike 86 Pensions
1973 Lockout None Salary arbitration
1976 Lockout None Free agency
1980 Strike None Free-agent compensation
1981 Strike 712 Free-agent compensation
1985 Strike None Salary arbitration
1990 Lockout None Salary arbitration, salary cap
1994 Strike 920 Salary cap, revenue sharing

 

[Neemer]

What They Want

Want to increase local revenue sharing (involving money from local media contracts and gate receipts) to 50 percent from 20 percent. {OWNERS}

Fear too much sharing will discourage rich clubs from springing for big contracts. {PLAYERS}

Competitive balance tax

Want luxury tax to put a drag on player salaries.{OWNERS}

See luxury tax as salary cap in disguise.{PLAYERS}

60/40 debt rule

Want to enforce old rule that a team can't have debt higher than 40 percent of its asset value (twice the amount of the team's gross revenue).{OWNERS}
%
Believe this rule slows free-agent bargaining and must be negotiated now because it includes deferred money from long-term contracts.{PLAYERS}

Discretionary fund

Along with revenue sharing, management wants pool of money that Commissioner Selig can spend as he sees fit -- to help with stadium financing or for short-term loans to struggling teams.{OWNERS}

Doesn't want any part of this because union fears it gives Selig too much control.{PLAYERS}

Drug policy

Want to test for drugs, particularly in light of growing steroid rage.{OWNERS}

Want no part of this. {PLAYERS}

Arbitration

Owners want five-day window to release players after salary arbitration figures are exchanged.{OWNERS}

Oppose this, thinking management could flood the market with free agents in January, thus lowering salaries.{PLAYERS}

The owners essentially need somebody to protect them from themselves. Though that isn't the players' job, a healthy partnership will benefit both sides

tHE biggest bunch of bullchit in this entire situation is the player's refusal to adhere to the random steroid testing. Their main arguement is that it violates their privacy. I say, TOUGHCHIT, if ya don't like it, then do down the street and sell cars(not that there's anything wrong with that) If this truly is the best excuse they can come up with, then i see little support from the majority of baseball fans out there. It's not the balls and bats that are juiced, it's the friggin' players. Some estimate that nearly 70 percent of professional athletes take some form of talent enhancing medications.

 

[Night Owl]

Fletcher,
Good points. I'm certainly not above learning some new things as I go here and I openly admit I do not know all the facts. It's startling to hear that minor leaguers make so little, although in the low minor leagues I think it's more or less common knowledge that just about all of those guys end up having to get some sort of 2nd/"regular" job to supplement their income at some point in time.

What I did not know was all of baseball was tied together as one (if I understand you right) May sound really stupid, but it's true. If part of the issue is that guys in the minor leagues aren't making crap, then that would support my stance -- which remains unchanged -- that guys in the majors simply make TOO MUCH!!! I don't know about the individual players themselves, but the Players Union certainly must not be concerned about what guys in the minors are making. If they were, the minimum major league salary might not be $225,000 and the AVERAGE major league salary approaching 2 million per year?? If this is about solidarity throughout baseball and fairness and equality then their asses should be capped, the minimum LOWERED and the extra money from that spread amongst their minor-league affiliates?? Wouldn't that help in solving that issue? Maybe I'm way off with all this. Hey....not saying I'm right....just trying to figure out how this game can be played with some labor peace for a change!!

I do not disagree that minor leaguers should be paid more, especially if it truly is that little. Maybe even $50 K a year or so if the money is there to do it. On the other hand, if that's not going to happen or is unrealistic or whatever, then like Jack said, those guys need to get a damn job (or manage their money better!) If it's too little to support a family, maybe they shouldn't even be doing it in the first place?? Let's face it: Most of them are major league DREAMERS and what happens when guys end up getting out of baseball all together? I mean the ones who were never good enough to begin with....got injured...got cut...whatever the case might be? They have to get a real job somewhere anyway...so hopefully the concept isn't too foreign to them :shrug: So yes I think minor leaguers have a bit of a legit beef with the disparity being what it is between the majors and the minors, but ultimately that's life! It's not fair....don't really want to hear those guys cry about it. If you're good enough to make the bigs everything will most likely work out just fine in the end anyway, I'm pretty sure.

In my original post, you're right that everything was about the major leaguers and although I totally love baseball I still say a lot of them get paid too much. Maybe not all, but should a left-handed loser-ass reliever get paid $225,000 a year in the show for coming in every 3rd day or so to pitch a third of an inning...maybe get a guy or two out one day....get rocked the next time?? I sure as hell don't. Never have, never will. $225,000 is the MINIMUM in the big leagues, isn't it? That's a pretty good salary. If you can't live off that (and I know the reference was to minor leaguers and not major leaguers) get some god damned money management skills!!! Quite a handful of these guys are no better than Triple A material anyway...hence my opinion to lower the minimum.

Not trying to argue. Trying to offer opinions and even learn, in fact. Ultimately I just think that tons of money is being tossed around in baseball. If you MUST strike, is there any reason you have to strike DURING the season? You guys do get 6 months or whatever it is in the fall and winter....maybe sit your asses down some time and iron things out.....for the good of the game?? Firmly believe if they can't find a time and place to sit down and get everything ironed out not only are they idiots but they are eventually gonna run this game into the ground as the fans (just ask some of them in this thread) aren't going to be understanding forever.

Just a quick word on baseball's upper echelon. I stand behind my belief that there should be a maximum salary in the game. I mean should A-Rod be allowed to make $30 mil/year instead of $25? FOR WHAT????? He gonna run out of money some time in his life only making $252 million over 10 years??????? Owners are clearly to blame for this. And maybe they aren't losing the type of money some of them claim but by the same token their financial supplies CAN'T be endless....sooner or later countless millions spent CAN'T leave you, as an owner, with a profit. Or at least not much of one. This is where they need to get A LOT smarter.

Ultimate bottom line for me, though, is labor peace (long lasting, mind you) and that we can all enjoy betting success But my gut instinct is that the players, most of whom already have plenty, don't want to give in to anything (I.E. drug testing) and just want more, more, more. I'd drop the ranting and raving about player salaries and such if I just knew they were GAURENTEED to be on the field...all year...for years to come. As a bettor and a fan that's all I really want. Hell if we can manage at our store -- with ONE HELL of a lot more important and serious issues than you baseball playing bastards could ever even dream of -- I think you could probably find a way to manage, too.

The more I think about it, the more I can't wait for the football season to get here!!

Night Owl

 

[fletcher]

shit just did a long write up 8 parh. and it went blank when i sent it.

well here is the short verson. its a catch 22 the aaa and mlb guys make the money and it is out of hand ,how do you get it back and feed some money down,that will be the hard part it got out of hand big time with arod,now what do you do with the guys with these big contracts do you grandfather them in then capp of some type,then what happens to the guy that says i should have a chance at that money,i don't know what can be done or how but i even belive that enough is enough even more then enough.

talked with a few friends and they said they know if they walk it will only put a pinch in the owners pocket and will make them look bad,they aslo know if owners lock out will hurt baseball bad.

a few months ago they said the players that they would sing agreement that they would play the whole year with out walking if owners would agree not to lock out after oct and work to get a deal no matter what it took before spring traing and owners said no way so its all messed up,one of the guy also said that players reps agree that there needs to be a change in both the people runinng the talks on both sides but you really don't here much of that.

on the juice i cannot state fact but i bet i am alittle low that over 50% use some type of juice in college and pros,i did for over 8 years and knew players that i had that did and i played with that did you are almost forced to do so and here is why.

you and the guy next to you are fighting to move up and make the money same skills almost he gains 20 pounds of muscle in 2 years hits the ball harder and about 30 feet futher and runs about 3-4 10ths of a sec faster then you are screwed.

i have done a lot of work on strenght training in baseball my program is used by over 25 jucos and ncaa teams ,it was put together with a ussr powerlifter out of mobile al dr.spahosky. even gave it to jacks soon so even though i write like shit i know the body when it comes to power and strength. so when i see a guy like bonds who has gained 20+ pounds of muscle and cut body fat to about 10% at his age i know he is on something.

your body after 30 drops in testastrone by about 20-30% from what it was putting out at 18-28. and starts to even out about 45 then goes down alittle each year after that. i don't care what type of strength,speed,flexabilty and nutritinal traiers you have you body cannot do that if you don't belive me we have so people here in the health prof. here ask them or look up some studies from jama.

yes you need to test in college they test before the start of the reg tourny. but everyone knows that so you can stop about 6 weeks before and get a clean test and they just pull a few guys from each team. most players use test. and there is no set number of how much test you have in your body there is just a normal range it could be alittle below or a little high so stopping 6 weeks before will put in back in this group.

i say should give the players time to clean up and start testing at the start of spring training and do it when every they want. then no-one can cru foul inless you are doing something wrong because you have had 6 months to clean out you body. this needs to be a must.

at this point don't think players will walk but i also think owners will lock out after oct. they don't care about the game the players really do,they care about the business and if i owned a team i might have different veiws cannot speak for them but can speak on what i know.

and with all the babble and we want this and that talk bottom line is owners want to bust union. and have the funds to do it ,if players and fans donot stand behind each other if lock out happens.

if it comes to a lock out that should show the people it is the owners because the players played out the season so you can't fault them they did their part.

 

[skulldog]

Excellent research neemer, fletch etc. How come football gets it, basketball(to a certain point) and the greedy phucks in baseball don't.

I'm not blaming either side because I feel both are at fault, but like neemer said, the owner's nuts are on the line when they fork up the jack.

IMO, the players are not overpaid because the stupid egomaniac owners are willing to pay them , you are worth what someone is willing to pay.

The problem in MLB is the disparity between the haves and the havenots and until they figure out a way to share the WEALTH, then they will always have this problem.

One thing is certain, if they strike this year and don't finished the season, MLB is in deep shit!!

JMO