Iraq Civil War

[shamrock]

thank you Rodney for sharing your thoughts. I have been curious if your opinions would match the local friends I have that have been in Iraq. Most seem to share your feelings. Several on the board here for quite some time have said 1) the lack of efficient planning by Rumsfeld and the other "War planners", has resulted in to many servicemen being killed, wounded, and over seas to long. 2) to many civilians being slaughtered needlessly. 3) how has this not cost Rumsfeld his job?.

But we are just regular folks sitting home on a computer, thanks for sharing thoughts of someone being there.

Thank you Sir for your service, and insight of your thoughts.

 

[shamrock]

Fred, I don't know about Bush and his cronies getting rich off the war, I do know they did a reprehensible job planning it, and rushed into it getting tens of thousands of American Servicemen killed and or crippled. Hundreds of thousands of Iraqi civilians killed or crippled. And he has carelessly steered the country into serious fiscal problems with this war, that he definitely did say Iraqi oil would pay for.

You state you don't know how are military was so wrong, the military wasn't necessarily wrong, they take orders, and the orders were given by Rumsfeld Wolfawitz etc. many many highly decorated generals retired, publicly said this was a no win situation from the start.

Of course a democracy is a impossibility in the middle East, look at Lebanon, a flimsy toothless so called democracy that can't even eradicate itself from the terrorists that thrives within its country. If that's the best we can hope for Iraq, you get the picture. Lebanon bows to Iran & Syria, its no democracy.

 

[StevieD]

Ferd, welcome to the right side of this war. It doesn't matter how you got here, The fact is you are here. We all support the troops by the way. One thing has nothing to do with the other. In fact we support them more than the guys who want to keep them there with targets on theit backs.

 

[smurphy]

Ferd's been critical of the war for a long time. Most genuine conservatives have been as well.

 

[StevieD]

Ferd's been critical of the war for a long time. Most genuine conservatives have been as well.

Well somebody must have been in favor of it. There seemed to be quite a few arguments around here about it.

I know Pat Buchanan has always been against it but I can't think of very many more who were. Hannitty, Limbaugh, all of right wing tv and radio have been for it. :shrug:

 

[smurphy]

Those guys are *real* conservatives. A true conservative would never be so wreckless like this administration is or all the garbage talking heads doing nothing but spinning their alarmist crap for self-selving purposes.

This whole thing has been very difficult for true conservatives - they have to support the administration, but they know they are supporting arrogant, selfish, imcompetent assholes.

 

[StevieD]

I am confused? Why do they "have" to support this murderous bunch? Not only because of the Occupation of Iraq, but they spend money like drunken sailors. Still they "have" to be supported by conservatives? Any conservative worth his salt should have been jumping up and down demanding Bush straighten up.

 

[smurphy]

I guess it's loyalty and fear of Democrats gaining control. I wish more people were loyal to an idea of moderation rather than the extremes of each party.

 

[StevieD]

Hillary will probably run as a fiscal conservative. Which should be interesting at least.

 

[Marco]

Abizaid stated Iraq was possibly headed for civil war.....Abizaid needs to open his eyes because they're already at civil war, judging the sectarian violence and the number of Iraqis killing each other....

Our leadership didn't look at their culture and values and the power structure when they went about dismantling Saddam's regime. They eliminated Saddam, which was a good thing as far as eliminating a world threat, but they figured Saddam was the great oppressor and once removed from power that the Iraqis would just get along together.

Saddam was the only real glue holding Iraq together, via brutality....once he was removed then its payback time for the majority he suppressed. With saddam out of the picture the Sunnis and Shias can go at it.

As long as religion is absolute trump over there, you can forget about any hint of democracy there. The religious bloods and crips will be fighting everybody over there, when we have sense enough to leave they'll be fighting against themselves.

Religion is involved, so this shit can go on for hundreds of years, as it has already in the past. I wouldn't spend a dollar on democracy over there, and I damn well wouldn't have wasted hundreds of billions of dollars trying to reform them knowing the past history and how fanatical they are there.

 

[shamrock]

Marco, I agree 100 percent, Saddam although brutal, vicious etc. etc. served a purpose in Iraq. He indeed was the glue your referring to. And like the old saying, sometimes the evil you know is better than the evil you don't. Saddam also hated Iran vehemently, now we risk Iran and the Hezbollah Shiites expanding into Iraq creating a huge fanatical country.

 

[Chadman]

And now we see a report from a top administration official that the troops will be pulled from Iraq if it does disintegrate into a civil war. I suppose they will spin this as doing the right and noble thing come election time. Of course, when any liberal or democrat talked about this kind of thing it was labeled unpatriotic, aiding the enemy, and cutting and running.

How will this make the United States look if we pull the troops out now under the explanation of saving our lives due to civil war and unrest? A question more for the conservatives that still say this was a good thing and a good idea for us to engage in. We go in there under the guise of an eternally changing mission message, and then leave the country a complete disaster. Good luck spinning this one...

I am not saying this is true, mind you, it is a report from an unconfirmed source. But of course it makes a lot of sense that it could happen...what is the alternative? Keep soldiers over there by renigging on agreements with them for time of service - to be killed by roadside bombs, beheadings, whatever your death-du-jour choice might be?

I cannot imagine how much bravery it would take to stay positive over there as a soldier. I really appreciate the insight and commentary from neverteaseit. One question for you: what kind of news reports and information did you receive when you were over there? I constantly see the conservative Bush supporters here say how the liberal media is hurting the troops with their message. Did you see much of that over there? Thanks again for your service and posting.

 

[kosar]

I always get a chuckle when a Wayne or a weasel blames this fiasco on the media. If anything, they were derelict in their duty by doing virtually zero analysis pre-war and serving in the role of cheerleaders in the opening weeks of the war. Rah-rah.

It seems pretty simple to me. When there were good things to report (first three weeks), then they reported them. When there were bad things to report (last 3 1/2 years), the reported that also.

My idea of newsworthy does not include, 'hey we've gotten electricity back to the level it was at when Saddam was in power!'

or

'You know those 110 schools we blew up? Well we've rebuilt half of them!'

 

[neverteaseit]

Chadman we only seen the news very briefly while there. Mostly CNN or Fox on t.v. in the mess hall when we ate. We had a paper that was distributed everyday if it made it to your location many know of it. Stars and Stripes http://www.estripes.com/. In all reality not many of us paid attention to any of it. The reporters on t.v. are in the green zone in Baghdad mostly and I doubt any venture out side of the bases very much since they would be at risk.

We had some local reporters from various states following the soldiers around but thats about it. I would like to know were all the political figures and the tour shows end up because my entire time there I never seen any of them. Of course not many would venture to our mortar heaven in fear of being killed. The only show I seen was when the 10th mountain female soldiers had a wet-t-shirt contest and some mud wrestling which I am sure the Army would not have allowed had they known it was going on.

In all reality I think many could care less what goes on in the media because they are trying to stay alive and come back home which is the most important. But I can tell u I feel out of place back home now. Things just seem strange to me now. But I have a level head and will adjust again I am sure. Unless I go back which I hope to do lol. I doubt I do it in a military capacity though. Gonna weigh my options before I decide though.

 

[DOGS THAT BARK]

"I always get a chuckle when a Wayne or a weasel blames this fiasco on the media"

I'll give you another chuckle then Matt. Would wager substantial sum that media report above is incorrect--and no way we pull in civil war occurs-not till 08 maybe.

Area is to strategic and consequences of Iran taking over if we too great.A lot more at risk here than meets the eye.

About the only thing I have changed on since start of war is I thought the Sunni element was sole culprit to deal with--I now believe there is Shite element that is maybe more destructive--they need to take Al-Sadr and his crew out--should have did it long ago when they had the chance.

 

[kosar]

I agree, Wayne. I don't think we'll automatically pull out if a civil war ensues.

We'll leave when the Shia Iraqi government asks us to and not a moment longer.

There is no more 'risk than meets the eye', as many have been citing these 'risks' since before the invasion.

Iran already has a lot of influence in Iraq and has since we invaded. They are pulling the strings in that whole region and we are caught in the middle of it. That will not change if we leave tomorrow or in 10 years.

 

[djv]

There new prime minster sure as hell is two faced. We better not trust his butt for a second. Someone asked question yesterday on day side if caught in civil war our soldiers do what. Who do they stick up for. I say they defend them self with out asking questions. Shoot first don't get shot.

 

[ferdville]

The signs were there and maybe I was wishing rather than looking rationally. If anyone can actually pose a believable scenario of how this might work out for the best, I would like to hear it. It certainly won't come from our administration.

 

[CHARLESMANSON]

You guys are priceless. DJV, Kosar lol...my god you guys need to try and get war strategist jobs at the Pentagon lol.

When you guys critisize a young fighting democracy like Iraq, just think about what life was life BEFORE Saddam's terrorist regime was overthrown. He deceived the entire world, violated 19 UN resolutions, gased his own people, ran rape rooms and torture chambers, bribed most of Europe thru oil for food and put 400,000 innocent people in mass graves.

If you liberals had it your way a genocidal terrorist who killed 400,000 innocents and buried them in the desert would still be in power. Nice logic.

You guys have read the transcripts of Saddam on tape talking about hidding his WMDs, hiding the chemicals and deceiving the inspectors right??? Ok cool. ABC News...look it up.

 

[djv]

At A 100 or more a day how many will they need to kill of each other before you think it's OK. By the way they never found this 400000 dead you talk about. Where do you read your B S from.
Were you a wake last week when over 300000 demonstrated in Baghdad there hate for us. They were not throwing Flowers. They were burning our flag and shouting death to Bush. That' what your buddies in Iraq were doing.