Iraq

[TIME TO MAKE $$$]

Selkirk, are you from the Toronto area?


I do agree it is time to for our PM to retire, to make room for Paul Martin to step in.


Glad to see this discussion is being handled in a proper way, unlike many other threads where individuals lose control....

Also, how silly is our gov't? Well, as Selkirk pointed out Canada doesn't even have a CLEAR foreign policy.....

Just goes to show how PATHETIC the canadian gov't is..

 

[TIME TO MAKE $$$]

Fletcher,

do you know the name of the poll company?

I could do a search and see in greater detail as to the following

1. how many people were polled

2. where the poll was conducted

3. age demographics



I have a feeling most of the people polled were out in western canada of senior age...

 

[selkirk]

agreed Fletcher, also like the US, though have only been to New York, Boston, Wisc, Minnesota. plan on going to Las Vegas, was last there in 94 and some things have changed since then. (LOL)

saw a documentary on marketing and polls, it was amazing.

Time to Make $$ no live in NW Ont, but ussually fly down for business and to visit family/friends. plan on catching a few leafs games this year, have not seen them play since Maple Leaf Gardens, loved that stadium. was the best stadium ever but had that debate with couple of friend from Chicago, and montreal.

cannot wait for hockey.

thanks
selkirk

 

[Snake Plissken]

A war with Iraq I think will be a very quick one. I read that all there military equipment (Fighter jets, tanks, helicopters, etc.) is outdated and lacking spare parts.

The U.S Military is far more superior than anyone else's its laughable. The U.S can fight 3 major Wars at the same time with no problem.

I believe the Iraqi people really want sadam out but do not want to admit publicly because of fear.

Once war started with Iraq I really believe all the soldiers would surrender just like they did in the gulf war.

Kudos go to England for having the Balls to stick by our side.

Canada was in Afghanistan for only 6 months because there military budget is incredibly low (12 billion a year). I always thought of Canada as our friend to the North and always will. I don't trust polls

 

[Neemer]

I AM CURIOUS AS TO ONE THING:..........

Why in the hell do a large majority of middle eastern countries, despise the U.S.? Does most of it come from religous differences or the fact that we Americans live in a democratic and free country where one can express themselves as they see fit? I just don't get it....

 

[AR182]

I agree with Snake, I don't see much of a challenge by the Iraqi soldiers.I remember seeing during the Gulf War,Iraqi soldiers surrendering to Italian journalists.I thought that was pretty comical.

I got the following from an article in Readers Digest,who in turn got this info from The Center for Strategic & International Studies.This chart shows some of Saddam's biological & chemical weaponry,along with amounts that Iraq admitted to producing by the end of the Gulf War.Only God knows what he has now.

Biological:
Anthrax.....Bacteria causes fever,septic shock,difficulty breathing,death in 24-72 hours......22,457 gallons.

Botulinum Toxin.....Causes blurred vision,difficulty swallowing,paralysis,respiratory failure,death in as few as 24 hr....100,396 gallons.

Aflatoxin.....A mold toxin;can cause hemorrhage,convulsions,coma,liver cancer,death....581 gallons

Gas Gangrene.....Bacterial infection can cause tissue death,shock,kidney failure,coma,often death.....900 gallons

Chemical:
VX Nerve Gas....Disrupts nervous system,causes convulsions,respiratory paralysis,death....4 metric tons(Intelligence estimatever 200 tons)

Sarin....Attacks nervous system,paralysis muscles used for breathing,can cause death within minutes....100 -150 metric tons(Intelligence estimate:up to 800 tons).

Mustard Gas....As liquid,causes skin & eye burns & blisters,Inhaled,can cause longterm respiratory disease & cancer....500-600 metric tons(Intelligence estimate:up to 800 tons)

It is know that Saddam has potent conventional weapons;Soviet designed T-72 tanks,helicopter gunships & surface to air missiles.But Iraq is also equipped with short range cruise & tactical missiles---this is particularly troubling because they can potentially deliver weapons(biological & chemical) of mass destruction.It is estimated that these missiles can travel about 600 miles.So,now we know what will be taken out first by air assault.
I saw a report on TV that Tony Blair is preparing a report that will link Saddam training the higher ups in the Alqaeda to use weapons of mass destruction.Not enough praise can be given to Blair for standing by the US side.
Does any one have any doubt why this prick has to be taken out & the people of Iraq be liberated.

Finally,I am very impressed with how the Bush Administration has played their cards in dealing with the rest of the world, since 9/11.They have controlled the situation from the beginning.Many people were saying that the allies will have a huge fight on their hands in overtaking Afghanistan.They reasoned that since the warriors of Afghanistan have fought off the invasion of Russia among others,the allies would have a problem.Although I have questioned some of the allies strategy(relying too much on the Afghan nationals),they ran out the Taliban & Alqaeda very quickly.Now against Iraq,Bush scared everybody into thinking that the US would act unilaterally.When the European Nations started complaing about cowboy Bush going it alone,Bush appeased them by going in front of the UN with his complaints about Saddam.So what does he do,he tells the UN that if nothing is done about Saddam,they will become irrelevant.Nobody likes to be thought of as irrelevant.Now these same nations(Italy,France,Spain)who first questioned a war with Iraq,are now started coming around to the Bush way of thinking & the rest will follow(China & Russia)....."Your either with us or with the terrorists"......Great chess playing!!!!

 

[Monarch]

As the US and the UK consider military action against Iraq, BBC News Online looks at the country's battered economy and the possible impact of another war.

Iraq has the potential to be one of the richest countries in the world.
But, in pursuit of illusory conquests, the country's leaders have squandered its resources on the vagaries of war.

Much of the blame can be laid at the door of Iraqi President Saddam Hussein, who has once again incited America's wrath.

But the imposition of United Nations sanctions throughout the 1990s also straitjacketed the country's economic development.

The victims in this drama have been the long-suffering Iraqi people, many of whom live hand-to-mouth, surviving on food rations from the UN oil-for-food programme.

"The country has effectively been at war for 22 years," says Neil Partrick of the Economist Intelligence Unit (EIU).

Suffering

In a population of 23 million, many are desperately poor and at least half of the adult males are unemployed.


Galloway visited Iraq after the Gulf War

"It is no longer as bad as it was," says George Galloway, the British MP and vocal campaigner against sanctions.

"When I visited the country in 1993, there was no oil-for-food programme and Iraq was really on its knees.

"People would literally fall down in the street through weakness and hunger."

For a country that still has a middle class and was once relatively prosperous, salaries are laughably low.

Hotel workers earn about $7 a month, while doctors make $20 and university professors earn $30.

Only people involved in the black market manage to live "ostentatiously", while families with relatives outside the country live on precious hand-outs, says Mr Galloway.

Minnow with giant potential?

The main prop for the economy has been the country's significant oil reserves, which if exploited properly could put even Saudi Arabia in the shade.

Iraq's dark years
1980-88: War with Iran
August 1990: Iraq invades Kuwait
1991: Gulf War
1996: UN oil-for-food programme allows Iraq to sell oil in return for imports of food and humanitarian supplies
1999: Limits on oil exports lifted
May 2002: Most limits on imports lifted
In the heyday of 1979 - one year before an eight-year war with Iran - Iraq produced 3.5 million barrels of oil a day.

Following the war, oil facilities were damaged, contributing to $100bn in economic losses for Iraq, according to the British Foreign Office.

The Gulf War in 1991 and harsh economic sanctions also battered the economy - crude estimates from the EIU calculate that the economy contracted by 50% that year.

Since then, the UN has slowly eased its restrictions on Iraq, but the country has still struggled to return to form.

Its oil production has not exceeded 2.5 million barrels a day since 1991, even though Iraq has the potential reserves to produce six million a day, says Mr Partrick.

Held up

The reasons for Iraq's stunted growth range from dips in the oil price to President Saddam's fondness for turning off the country's oil taps to show his displeasure of Western 'meddling'.


Iraq's oil facilities need investment

Iraq has also failed to upgrade its oil infrastructure.

This is partly because the government has opted to spend much of its money on defence - possibly building up an arsenal of chemical weapons - and maintaining its power base.

However, the UN regime has also made it difficult for the Iraqis to import spare parts for upgrading facilities.

Requests for new equipment have frequently been held up by UN sanction committees because of concerns they might be put to military use.

Lack of investment

Oil experts have visited Iraq to examine ways of boosting the industry, but since 11 September the US and the UK have put a stop to any foreign investment.


Saddam has little interest in economic reform

Iraq's current trading partners, which oppose military strikes by the US, include Russia, Jordan, Syria and Egypt.

Jordan, for example, is dependent on Iraq for its entire domestic oil needs, says Carlin Doyle of Oxford Economic Forecasting.

Even Nato member Turkey has bemoaned Iraq's economic isolation - it says it has lost about $40bn because of trade restrictions since the Gulf War.

War impact

Any military attack by the US and the UK would inevitably disrupt Iraq's oil exports.

Strikes would also damage infrastructure and lead to civilian casualties, both of which would feed through into a worsening of the economic situation.


Western leaders are debating the merits of war

Surprisingly, however, the EIU is predicting that Iraq could experience an economic rebound next year in spite of any war.

"Oil exports fluctuate anyway, so the impact would not be huge in that context," says Mr Partrick, who believes any war would be short-lived.

He adds that a possible change in regime as a result of war could also lead to economic reforms.

This view is backed by Ian Bremmer, president of the research firm, Eurasia Group, who argues that it has not been in President Saddam's interests to open up the economy completely.

"[His] power base would become vulnerable in the event of a rapid re-opening of international trade links and unrestricted flows of labour and investment," he says.

So, perversely, yet another war could deal Iraq a few good cards.

But as the US and the UK ponder their options, the horror of previous conflicts will be only too vivid in the minds of ordinary Iraqis.

 

[dr. freeze]

Bush has done a great job on both fronts thus far.......its a shame the liberal media fails to give him credit......he has surrounded himself with great minds......Condaleeza Rice, Colin Powell, Dick Chaney....etc......Bill Clinton had a bunch of fools running around with him.....what a contrast!!!! Thank God we have some people in office right now with such expertise than we did 3 yeras ago or we would be in great danger right now......

 

[neverteaseit]

neemer

neemer

why do most of the middle eastern countries dispise the u.s.? it is our way of life that is why. we have the freedom of religion, speech and the right to live without dictators. most people in the 3rd world are forced into religion,political beliefs and repressed. and oh how well they seem to forget all the things we greedy ass americans do for the rest of the world.

americans donate more money to help these starvin idiots every year, more than the rest of the world combined. do we complain no! we have a heart for those in suffering. in the time of need americans are always there to help.

when ever they are in need of help who do they run too! The u.s.a. is who. and we accept there need, usually with open arms.

the 3rd world does not understand what an american is.

americans are blacks,whites,hispanic,canadian,chinese,japanese,french,italian,german,romanian,russian,middle easterns,isreali's,english,scottish,australian and all the other races and countries and religions of the world. We are made of the those who believe in the those rights given to man. those rights that are founding fathers built this great nation upon.

something these people have never had and may never have.

the funning thing though is see how many if given a passport to the u.s. would leave there so called great life behind and live in the u.s.

as far as this iraq issue maybe it is time for us to truly flex are muscle and tell the rest of the world SCREW YOU! We have been shafted long enough by other allies and so called allies! We can unleash a military assualt on iraq that has never been seen before and level iraq in days not months or weeks! I truly do not think the rest of the world knows just how powerful we are.

Just for once I would like to the u.s. turn are backs on other countries and see how they like it. but that will never happen we are to kind hearted, the only weakness we truly have is that we have a heart!

history has proven time and time again that most of the countries we have helped will stab us in the back at the first oppotunity they get.

Bush is going to take saddam down with or without approval from the u.n. We have put up with this shit long enough and I am glad we have a president with some balls finally. If reagan was still in office Iraq would would be one large sandbox by now.

Saddam had better say his prayers his life is about to end. let allah save his ass this time. and as for the rest o the world. You can kiss my free american ass!!!!

 

[ferdville]

As far as any type of ground war, the Republican Guard, thought to be about 100,000 strong, are reasonably well-equipped and reasonably well-trained. The rank and file soldiers, as we saw in the Gulf War, will stop fighting and turn their backs as soon as they are challenged. And why shouldn't they? They have no love for Saddam and are fighting only out of fear of what he might do to them if they didn't fight. Personally, I believe that the Republican Guard, if they knew defeat was at hand, would also se large numbers of defectors. Once they can stop worrying about what Saddam might do to them, they have little incentive to continue.

 

[Monarch]

Ok, say we take Saddam out and bring his regime to an end, who on earth is going to run the country then? Iraq is one of the most oil-rich nations in the world. Their potential for growth and prosperity is enormous. Do we try and bring in a similair structure to Afganistan?

 

[trademaster]

I don't understand why other countries can't protect themselves. I don't like the idea just the US can have weapons of mass destruction. Is I was a leader of a country that had weapons and USA said hand them over i would say :thefinger.

USA SUPPORTED THE INVASION OF IRAN FOR OIL, big mistake. USA give $$$ to saddam, FATAL MOVE. But when Saddam wants to invade another country,doesn't help the USA out, they get mad(Kuwait). USA is a terriost country has well(depends what glass you look from). GIve weapons to Iraq(backfired) & Iseral.

"If these assholes in the middle east didn't have any oil we wouldn't give two shits about them."

Now I know why most the world hates the US.



"I would like to see Chretien's facial reaction if another country (with a superior army) attacked Canada and BUSH said " We are not getting involved" "

US would NEVER LET THAT happen not because they like Canada so much but they don't want another country(example Russia) so CLOSE TO THEM, NEIGHBors easier to attack USA if someone invaded Canada.



Also Canada's PM is right the West is getting to rich. Just like sports. IT IS BETTER if EVERY COUNTRY IS GETTING RICH. USA would never let that happen cuz there power wouldn't be has high & other countries wouldn't need USA has much(so no we helped you, you help us crap even if your wrong).

I don't hate Americans but I do hate the American government. I have lived in the US & enjoyed my time there even if for a short period of time. Nor am I PRO IRAQ, I do beleive IRAQ is going to bomb the USA big time if they don't stop him but he still has a right to protect his country(Canada's PM has said he hates Saddam has well). But in my heart I know the USA governement only does something if it helps them like an "attempted" invasion of Iran. The funny thing is the people in that country cried after what happened on 9/11 but then Bush called Iran an "evil" country then everyone was pissed --saw on Dateline NBC. I was surprised people for Iran cried cuz the USA let Iraq invade.
I don't think a life in US is more important then a life in Africa.

I will probably get bashed for not sideing with the US but I understand why Americans would side with the USa cuz it is there country even if they have done wrong you will support it.

You can crap on Canada all you want like USA can invade Canada(which they can). Bush isn't very bright but he isn't stupid. All other countries would come after the US if they "invaded" any country like Canada who is peacefull and minds its own business. Funny thing most of the world hates US then Canada. Why is that? Most people will answer Canada doesn't do anything. IF you say so LOL.

 

[Neemer]

as for Iraq I am not against military action, but would like a time table and perphaps backed by the UN. why did the UN and the US allow the weapon inspectors to get kicked out and do nothing.

uhhhhh,............believe his name was "Bill Clinton"...