I agree with you 100% that baseball players aren't given near enough credit for the physical part of the game.. I power lifted for 4 years before rupturing a disc in my back.. I miss it so much that I'm thinking of having a spinal fusion done just to get back into it.. I guess my drive to compete is just not the same as everyone else.. If I had been Moss there would have been a fight right there in the dugout.. I guess thats why I went into a singles sport like powerlifting instead of a team sport like bases.. I have no ground to argue with you about this b/c you have been there and I have not.. I just hate it when I see people holding other people back from achieving greatness.. I still think that a few more pitches wouldn't have killed this kid and a no no would have done so much for his confidence.. Like I said fletcher I don't know all the ins and outs of a MLB team but I do know work ethic and drive and I just hated to see this kid have a chance taken away from him b/c of something that "might" happen in the future.. I guess Cox made the smart move for the long term picture but it still got under my skin.. Either way it's made for a good discussion and I'm glad you have put in your expert opinion..
I've just got to RANT about this..
- Thread starter Big_Mack
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trust me everyone that was in on that decision had to feel like shit for the point you just brought up,and its a tuff call,i am sure he was pissed,but today when he can't move arm and has to long toss through the latic acid build up and run with legs of lead he also knows it was right,he might not like it but more then likely knows why it was done .
nighthorse no body is going to build up to that type of pitch count you don't build arm strength from pitching in the game ,you build it on your off days with long toss and flat ground work and other things,the game breaks down your strength,so if you were to go that many pitches it would show not as much in your next start but your 2nd start after all those innings, i know it sounds backwards but thats how it works ,you brought up a good point that i hate,pitchers are now geared for 6 innings that is what is a quality start 6 inn and 3 er's or less and that is the goal well goal is 7 and then use your set up man then closer.that plays mind games with young pitchers,i am from the school of go all out and don't worry about how short or long you go just get the job done and let coaching staff make those moves when its time.
and this is a very good thread,i for one would of hated to been in that spot,but like i said in baseball you have to look whats best for team and long term,he ended on a postive note no hits or runs,if he was ran out and gave up a game winning hit it would be very bad for his mind at a young age being in the majors,pitchers are a different type of creature,they are the last guys you want to room with on the road ,you would want to kill them by the time you get home if your not another pitcher. they do some weired shit late at night to the point of being anal,but thats what it takes catchers know every hitter and have to know where everyone is to be at every given time,qb of the team,with some of the stuff pitchers do you would think they were building a bridge or high rise,very very meticulous about every thing but thats what it takes its more in the mind to be good then the body as a pitcher.
nighthorse no body is going to build up to that type of pitch count you don't build arm strength from pitching in the game ,you build it on your off days with long toss and flat ground work and other things,the game breaks down your strength,so if you were to go that many pitches it would show not as much in your next start but your 2nd start after all those innings, i know it sounds backwards but thats how it works ,you brought up a good point that i hate,pitchers are now geared for 6 innings that is what is a quality start 6 inn and 3 er's or less and that is the goal well goal is 7 and then use your set up man then closer.that plays mind games with young pitchers,i am from the school of go all out and don't worry about how short or long you go just get the job done and let coaching staff make those moves when its time.
and this is a very good thread,i for one would of hated to been in that spot,but like i said in baseball you have to look whats best for team and long term,he ended on a postive note no hits or runs,if he was ran out and gave up a game winning hit it would be very bad for his mind at a young age being in the majors,pitchers are a different type of creature,they are the last guys you want to room with on the road ,you would want to kill them by the time you get home if your not another pitcher. they do some weired shit late at night to the point of being anal,but thats what it takes catchers know every hitter and have to know where everyone is to be at every given time,qb of the team,with some of the stuff pitchers do you would think they were building a bridge or high rise,very very meticulous about every thing but thats what it takes its more in the mind to be good then the body as a pitcher.
I'll say this, if the kid had thrown as many pitches in the last 2 in. as was his avg. to that point he would have needed 150+. It's extremely unlikely he would have enough to make it. I understand your point, and I know that's how it's done. I guess i was griping more in general than to this particular case. Cox gets enough legit criticism without piling on unnecessarily.
I keep hearing stories of guys back in the old days of 4 man rotations, 25 complete games, 300+ innings. I just wonder how the hell they did it.
I keep hearing stories of guys back in the old days of 4 man rotations, 25 complete games, 300+ innings. I just wonder how the hell they did it.
wigs, those are great stories.
Also, re: removing Moss. This isn't that complicated. He was rightfully pulled. Having to hit in the NL makes this even more obvious. There IS a history of young pitchers blowing out their arms if you push them too hard. Going over 117 pitches would be considered abuse.
GL, guys.
Also, re: removing Moss. This isn't that complicated. He was rightfully pulled. Having to hit in the NL makes this even more obvious. There IS a history of young pitchers blowing out their arms if you push them too hard. Going over 117 pitches would be considered abuse.
GL, guys.
with lot of pain and the bigger reason they were not even close to the 7 figure income,the more you have invested,the less risk you will see.
But the good ones did it year after year, it's not like management was throwing guys out there and using them up in 2 or 3 years then throwing on to the scrap heap.....at least that's the impression I get. Maybe there were a lot more examples of pitchers being "martinized" back in the old days and we just don't hear about them.
Good point Chucky......I forgot about that. If it's 8-0, maybe you tell the kid to go out and throw some batting practice stuff and see if they can get themselves out. First hit and you're out, if you're trying to nibble on the corners, you're out. this would never happen which is one of many reasons why I'm not a manager.
Good point Chucky......I forgot about that. If it's 8-0, maybe you tell the kid to go out and throw some batting practice stuff and see if they can get themselves out. First hit and you're out, if you're trying to nibble on the corners, you're out. this would never happen which is one of many reasons why I'm not a manager.
