How can you be stupid enough to go for it on 4th and 1, from you own 19 yard line, with a 14 point lead?? He's lucky that SMU stinks!
James Franklin?????
- Thread starter ChasDee
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Pretty sure that was an all time top 5 worst coaching decision in the history of football
- Sep 7, 2006
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Maybe was thinking if didn't make it would be in perfect position for another pick SIX....
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- Nov 30, 2003
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as if that wasn't dumb enough... late in the game, up 38-3, franklin accepted that holding call on SMU. SMU would have had 4th and 11 at the PSU 43 if he declined it. but, nope, not ol' james franklin. next play, PSU personal foul extends the drive and a few plays later, SMU scores a TD.
WTF are you worried about, 4th and 11 at the 43, up by 35? fucking idiot.
WTF are you worried about, 4th and 11 at the 43, up by 35? fucking idiot.
I love Army and their coach but he did the same thing. 4th and 1 and up by either 14 or maybe even 21 he goes for it. Anal-lytics are great but there is also game management and one stop in those situations can swing a game the other way just like that. My guess is that Franklin would blame it on the wind but that would be lame. Even if you can get the thing to midfield it's a huge advantage.
Also not sure why he wouldn't have Jennings sneak it on the 4th down. Jennings was playing for Penn State wasn't he?
I had a couple prop bets w SMU. Jennings to throw Over 1 1/2 touchdowns....technically he did that, right? And Daniels to score Anytime Touchdown. Got the latter and should have easily had the Jennings prop. That's the worst game I've ever seen a QB have, or else he and others were on the take. I know a lot of it is bullshit but at least make it believable and I'll just enjoy the soap opera lol
Also not sure why he wouldn't have Jennings sneak it on the 4th down. Jennings was playing for Penn State wasn't he?
I had a couple prop bets w SMU. Jennings to throw Over 1 1/2 touchdowns....technically he did that, right? And Daniels to score Anytime Touchdown. Got the latter and should have easily had the Jennings prop. That's the worst game I've ever seen a QB have, or else he and others were on the take. I know a lot of it is bullshit but at least make it believable and I'll just enjoy the soap opera lol
One other thing about the original topic and analytics in general. My dad was a coach back in the 70's and 80's. He loved Darrell Royal and always talked about "the long way home" and how so many things can happen when the other team starts on their own 20.
I know the game has changed and rules have changed to make offense so much easier and you can't just rely on old school stuff but when these teams go for it so much on 4th down and do other stuff, maybe it's time to give the defenses back some advantages. It's what we love about the sport. The field position, the decisions. We're not casual fans that just want to see offense and watch what looks like arena football on a bigger field.
I miss so much about the game the way it was back in the 80's and 90's...not quite old enough to remember 70's football but I've seen some highlights and it was pretty damn good then too!
I know the game has changed and rules have changed to make offense so much easier and you can't just rely on old school stuff but when these teams go for it so much on 4th down and do other stuff, maybe it's time to give the defenses back some advantages. It's what we love about the sport. The field position, the decisions. We're not casual fans that just want to see offense and watch what looks like arena football on a bigger field.
I miss so much about the game the way it was back in the 80's and 90's...not quite old enough to remember 70's football but I've seen some highlights and it was pretty damn good then too!
it's funny how far they've swung in the other direction. the problem with analytics, that none of these idiots seem to understand, is that they are based on math. and math is hard for a lot of people. one of my favorite recent examples... say you are the new york giants (sorry, but bear with it for a minute). you are down 14 with 4 minutes left in the game. you score a TD. the analytics say go for two. i actually kinda like this thinking. on average, teams convert 2-pt conversions roughly 50% of the time. if you convert, another td with the xp gives you the win. if you don't, you still have the opportunity to tie the game with a TD and 2-pt conversion. however, the gmen have about as much chance of a successful 2-pt conversion as I would, alone, against the '85 Chicago Bears. the analytics are based on each team having a roughly 50% chance to convert. obviously, the reality is some teams are simply not going to convert at anywhere near a 50% rate. but nobody seems to adjust for that. maybe it's hard for teams to accept that they are below average.
the other thing i've been wondering... if these analytics are based on #s from BEFORE everybody was following analytics. meaning, not long ago, usually it was only teams that were actually GOOD in those situations would be aggressive. so they would convert at a higher rate than the average team.
anyway, franklin is an idiot. i've disliked him ever since he was at vandy and they were beating kentucky late in the game. they could have taken a knee to end it. i can understand the argument for letting your 2nd stringers run some plays. but they actually ran a trick play for a touchdown. complete bullshit.
Frankly, I don't really understand "the analytics" that are very common nowadays. I admit, I'm old school.
But here is what I don't understand...going for it on your own 19-yard line, even if you make it...so what?
It doesn't assure you of anything! Sure, you get to keep the ball, but is the risk worth the reward??
Geez...I can remember, many years ago, teams used to punt on 3rd down (quick kick) if the yardage
to get for a first down was excessive. Back to James Franklin...I have seen this guy do some of the most bone-headed moves in all of football, at any level! When Penn State signed him to a 10-year deal a few years ago, I about crapped my pants! I thought I would never see a worse move in all of sports than that...then, sure as shit, my beloved Cleveland Browns traded for Deshaun Watson...!!!
But here is what I don't understand...going for it on your own 19-yard line, even if you make it...so what?
It doesn't assure you of anything! Sure, you get to keep the ball, but is the risk worth the reward??
Geez...I can remember, many years ago, teams used to punt on 3rd down (quick kick) if the yardage
to get for a first down was excessive. Back to James Franklin...I have seen this guy do some of the most bone-headed moves in all of football, at any level! When Penn State signed him to a 10-year deal a few years ago, I about crapped my pants! I thought I would never see a worse move in all of sports than that...then, sure as shit, my beloved Cleveland Browns traded for Deshaun Watson...!!!
Great comments guys! ChasDee, I love the quick kick but it seems like no one on earth remembers that it's a great tool. You know you have almost no chance at a first down so you punt w no returner and have a chance to get a good bounce/roll. It's even better when you have a Danny White or a Tom Tupa at QB who also punts!
And I agree....even if you get the first down, you might just end up punting a few plays later. Is it really worth that risk?
Smitty, I feel the same way w analytics. I recently heard about the strategy you mention, going for 2 when coming back late from 14 down. I hate it but I at least understand it. And yes, where is the data coming from? And who are you playing? If it's 4th and 2 and I can get 3 points vs the '85 Bears then I'm not gonna risk it. Or even, if I'm down 20-17 in the 3rd Quarter, I'm not going to risk going for it if I can tie the score.
Then again, if I have Fresno State's shitty kicker then I'm going for it every time haha. I've got Fresno +4 and ML and also have the Over 41 and my god..I love that they're winning but 20 play drive w three 4th down conversions yields zero points for N Illinois. Then another long drive and Fresno's kicker comes up SHORT on a 48 yarder. Then they block a punt and he misses the 42 yarder very wide right.
But yeah Smitty great points about where is the data coming from....who are we and who are we playing....all that stuff should go into analytics and even then sometimes you just gotta go old school and play field position. And sometimes taking the 3 points instead of risking...it makes the other team play different and affects the flow of the game.
Unfortunately we are all in the minority but that doesn't mean we're wrong! Nothing wrong w seeing what the analytics are but don't let it dictate every decision.
And I agree....even if you get the first down, you might just end up punting a few plays later. Is it really worth that risk?
Smitty, I feel the same way w analytics. I recently heard about the strategy you mention, going for 2 when coming back late from 14 down. I hate it but I at least understand it. And yes, where is the data coming from? And who are you playing? If it's 4th and 2 and I can get 3 points vs the '85 Bears then I'm not gonna risk it. Or even, if I'm down 20-17 in the 3rd Quarter, I'm not going to risk going for it if I can tie the score.
Then again, if I have Fresno State's shitty kicker then I'm going for it every time haha. I've got Fresno +4 and ML and also have the Over 41 and my god..I love that they're winning but 20 play drive w three 4th down conversions yields zero points for N Illinois. Then another long drive and Fresno's kicker comes up SHORT on a 48 yarder. Then they block a punt and he misses the 42 yarder very wide right.
But yeah Smitty great points about where is the data coming from....who are we and who are we playing....all that stuff should go into analytics and even then sometimes you just gotta go old school and play field position. And sometimes taking the 3 points instead of risking...it makes the other team play different and affects the flow of the game.
Unfortunately we are all in the minority but that doesn't mean we're wrong! Nothing wrong w seeing what the analytics are but don't let it dictate every decision.
And just to follow up, Fresno State's shitty kicker has a chance to be the hero w a chip shot 35 yarder that they put right in the middle of the field for him....and misses yet again. Thank God I at least got the Over but what a bullshit loss.
100% agree. the risk/reward in that situation was insane. why give a team struggling that badly the ball at the 19? it was very, very stupid, and he got away with it.
overall, i like the increased aggression. certainly makes it more entertaining. and, ultimately, sports are about entertainment. i think coaches used to be far too conservative, trying to protect their jobs. they didn't want to take any risks. but, like i said, it's swung way too far in the other direction.
man, who woulda ever thought that giving deshaun watson $230M (i had to double check that # because it's so ridiculous) would be a mistake? i mean, nobody* could have seen that coming!
*nobody except anybody with a functioning brain.
HOLY SHIT, I JUST REALIZED SOMETHING... james franklin is Domino from Deadpool 2. her superpower is that she is very lucky.
