John MCcain was smeared by the spokesperson for Swift Boat Vets.

Clem D

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What do John McCain and Swiftboat veterans forr truth have in Common?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Actually they have nothing in Common as he has honor.


But the group that smeared McCain and the Swift boat vets had the same spokesperson. Merrie Spaeth. A prominent Texas Buisness Woman who worked for Reagan/Bush, and was married To Tex Lezar, who aside from being Bush's running mate in 94 was also John O'neill's partner.

Read the above 3 or 4 times and tell me that Bush and the swiftees are joined at the hip?

Oh and you know I have alot to add to this to prove my case. God I love retirement and google.
 

Clem D

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Hot off the presses...

Attorney Works for Bush, Anti-Kerry Group

7 minutes ago

By SHARON THEIMER, Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON - A lawyer for President Bush (news - web sites)'s re-election campaign disclosed Tuesday that he has been providing legal advice for a veterans group that is challenging Democratic Sen. John Kerry (news - web sites)'s account of his Vietnam War service.


AP Photo



Benjamin Ginsberg's acknowledgment marks the second time in days that an individual associated with the Bush-Cheney campaign has been connected to the group Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, which Kerry accuses of being a front for the Republican incumbent's re-election effort.


The Bush campaign and the veterans' group say there is no coordination.


The group "came to me and said, 'We have a point of view we want to get into the First Amendment debate right now. There's a new law. It's very complicated. We want to comply with the law, will you keep us in the bounds of the law?'" Ginsberg said in an interview with The Associated Press. "I said yes, absolutely, as I would do for anyone."


Ginsberg said he never told the Bush campaign what he discussed with the group, or vice versa, and doesn't advise the group on ad strategies.


"They have legal questions and when they have legal questions I answer them," Ginsberg said. He said he had not yet decided whether to charge the Swift Boat Veterans a fee for his work.


Kerry's presidential campaign last week filed a complaint with the Federal Election Commission (news - web sites) accusing the Bush campaign and the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth of illegally coordinating the group's ads. The ads allege Kerry has lied about his decorated Vietnam War service; the group's accounts in a television ad have been disputed by Navy records and veterans who served on Kerry's boat.


"It's another piece of the mounting evidence of the ties between the Bush campaign and this group," Kerry campaign spokesman Chad Clanton said of Ginsberg's admission. "The longer President Bush waits to specifically condemn this smear, the more it looks like his campaign is behind it."


On Saturday, retired Air Force Col. Ken Cordier resigned as a member of the Bush campaign's veterans' steering committee after it was learned that he appeared in the Swift Boat veterans' commercial.


Kerry, meanwhile, is the subject of complaints by the Bush campaign and the Republican National Committee (news - web sites) accusing his campaign of illegally coordinating anti-Bush ads with soft-money groups on the Democratic side, allegations he and the groups deny.


Ginsberg also represented the Bush campaign in 2000 and became a prominent figure during the Florida recount.


He also served as counsel to the RNC in its unsuccessful lawsuit seeking to overturn the nation's campaign finance law, which banned the national party committees from collecting corporate, union and unlimited donations known as soft money and imposed stricter rules on coordination involving parties, candidates and interest groups.


Ginsberg contends that by offering legal advice to both the Bush campaign and the Swift Boat group, he has done nothing different than other election lawyers in Washington, including attorneys for Kerry and the Democratic National Committee (news - web sites) who have also advised soft-money groups. Representing campaigns, parties and outside groups simultaneously is legal and allowed under the law and by the FEC, he said.


"The truth is there is only a handful of lawyers who live and breathe this law. And so because the coordination rules do not include legal services among the prohibited coordinated activities, we provide legal service," Ginsberg said.


Larry Noble, head of the nonpartisan Center for Responsive Politics campaign watchdog group and former FEC general counsel, said it's true that serving as a lawyer for both a campaign and a soft-money group isn't considered automatic evidence of coordination under commission rules, but added that it doesn't mean the FEC won't look at it.


"I think there's a valid question about when you're talking about strictly legal advice and when you're talking about policy issues and strategic issues," Noble said. "It's fair to ask what the advice is about."


Joe Sandler, a lawyer for the DNC and a group running anti-Bush ads, MoveOn.org, said there is nothing wrong with serving in both roles at once.





In addition to the FEC's coordination rules, attorneys are ethically bound to maintain attorney-client confidentiality, Sandler said. They could lose their law license if they violate that, he said.
 

Clem D

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Well here it is--the email address of the swift liars ringleader Merrie Spaeth. Spaeth is the powerful public relations executive with deep ties to Karl Rove and Kay Baily Hutchinson of Texas. Her husband was a law partner of John O'Neil. She has been orchestrating this entire media rollout of the swift liars. She was also the ringleader for the smears against John McCain in the 2000 primaries by Bush and Rove. Spaeth was once a debate coach for Bush Sr. in 1988.
Merrie Spaeth has been leading the swift liar's strategy sessions during regular meetings in a hotel in Alexandria Virginia. At these meetings they plan their media strategy, decide what shows to go on, and plan their response. Spaeth is expert at getting people's stories straight and "refreshing" people's memories. Notice how the swift liars use simmilar language on ever tv show. They have all been coached.

Here is how to reach Ms. Spaeth:

merrie@spaethcom.com

Let her know it is not ok to smear good men to get your man elected.
 

Clem D

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The Republican orientation of the Swift Boat Veterans organization is transparently obvious, despite the inclination of some journalists to pretend otherwise. From stern to bow, they're strictly GOP.

As previously noted in this space, the group was organized last spring with the assistance of Merrie Spaeth, a Republican public relations executive from Houston whose late husband, Tex Lezar, ran for Texas lieutenant governor on George W. Bush's ticket in 1994.

Its guiding spirit is John E. O'Neill, a partner in Lezar's law firm and an early prot?g? of Nixon-era dirty trickster Charles Colson. (O'Neill's latest contribution to the cause is a book titled "Unfit for Command," selling fast thanks to promotion by the Drudge Report.)

Its Web site was put up courtesy of William Franke, a St. Louis businessman with longstanding ties to Attorney General John Ashcroft and the Missouri Republican Party. Its chief financiers, according to the group's last quarterly IRS filing, are Houston builder Bob J. Perry and the Crow family, both major Republican donors from Texas.

Last November, the Dallas Morning News profiled the mysterious Perry. During the past four years, he has given more than $5 million to candidates and causes, nearly all of them Republican and extremely conservative. The article didn't say whether Perry himself ever served in the military. The Crow family, a clan of megadevelopers based in Dallas, are close Bush friends as well as generous backers. Harlan Crow is also a trustee of the George H.W. Bush Presidential Library Foundation.

In short, the financial supporters of the Swift Boat Vets are not exactly strangers to George W. Bush and Karl Rove.
 

Clem D

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Im waiting for the transcript but Scarborough who is conservative, but is fair gave Merrie Spaeth a few oppurtunities to say she had nothing to do with Mc Cain smear before super tuesday. She according to most was the spokesman for republicans for clean air. She said on this show she had no connection whatsoever here are her words from 2000.



The campaign charged that the firm's president, Merrie Spaeth, was "part of the effort to smear John McCain in the GOP presidential primary in 2000" and has "close ties" to the Bush White House. Kerry supporters also suggested that Spaeth had something to do with the campaign against former Georgia senator Max Cleland in 2002.

Spaeth says the Cleland allegation is "not only false, but wildly false." She also says she has no ties to the Bush campaign or to the Republican National Committee. But there is something to the McCain story, Spaeth says, and she wants people to know what happened.

In the days before the 2000 GOP primary in New York, two Texas millionaires, Sam and Charles Wyly, formed a front group, "Republicans for Clean Air," to pay for an ad attacking McCain's environmental policies. Spaeth says a friend of hers in public relations called her shortly before the primary, saying he was representing a group that had done some ads and asked her to help field press inquiries about the group. Spaeth says she knew nothing about "Republicans for Clean Air," and says her decision to help, even in a small way, "turned out to be the biggest mistake, at least one of the top five," of her life. "I regret being involved in any way," Spaeth says, "and I am an admirer of Senator McCain." Now she is quick to point out that, unlike Republicans for Clean Air, the swift-boat organization is "a real group, with real members."

For his part, O'Neill says he chose Spaeth because he knew her personally; her late husband, Tex Lezar, had been O'Neill's law partner. In the past, O'Neill has worked with Spaeth's firm on a variety of non-political issues.

No connection merrie? Or your ashamed of your connection?
 

DOGS THAT BARK

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"The Republican orientation of the Swift Boat Veterans organization is transparently obvious, despite the inclination of some journalists to pretend otherwise. From stern to bow, they're strictly GOP."
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

---and what political affiliation do you think Soros-Moveon,org-Micheal Moore-New York Times-LA Times movies Stars ect are????

If that isn't the pot calling the kettle black,I don't know what is.

What you have is one group of veterans(Basically republicans I would admit) that started with shoestring budget, totally dominating the millions of spent by the above liberals.

Its a bitch isn't it--but you can thank Kerry for giving them the opportunity. Unless he pleads Alzheimers back then he will have tough time flip floping on all these events "seared in his memory" back then. :)
 

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dogs that bark stop the whining

dogs that bark stop the whining

has common sense left alot of americans.

bush is a creep that has hurt the us. so why vote for him

does kerry scare u. are is ur repuclican thumb so fare up ur aisss that u cant use your brain properly.

anybody that votes for bush is nuts. what has he done to better the us. nothing

he brought on 9/11 and if he gets back in it will happen.

ah go watch cnn

canada canada
 

djv

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Clem D yes retierment is great. I always wonder how it would be not haveing that dam daily grind. My Dad could not slow down he worked till 71. He's the one that told me lifes to short stop as soon as you can and kick back. Boy was he right.
 

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in addition since you all think Mc Cain thinks Kerry is a great guy--here are some quotes the gop should to run to counter the left.
If you just view liberal media you will never see these.

When John McCain came back from his imprisonment by the enemy Vietcong, he wrote in the May 14, 1973, issue of U.S. News & World Report, the POW-turned-senator charging that testimony by Kerry and others before J. William Fulbright's Senate Foreign Relations Committee was "the most effective propaganda [my North Vietnamese captors] had to use against us."

"They used Senator Fulbright a great deal," (a reference to Kerry's 1971 Senate testimony that U.S. soldiers were committing war crimes in Vietnam as a matter of course).

Mc Cain said that Kerry friend and rabid supporter Sen.Ted Kennedy was "quoted again and again" by his jailers at the Hanoi Hilton.

"All through this period," McCain told U.S. News, his captors were "bombarding us with anti-war quotes from people in high places back in Washington. This was the most effective propaganda they had to use against us." While McCain was a prisoner of war in the infamous Hanoi Hilton, Kerry was hard at work supplying the enemy with psychological warfare to be used by McCain's captors and to eventually help the enemy send the US packing
 

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Has anyone stopped to ponder just how pathetic this is? For years we've been hearing from the Democrats that President Bush is a dummy, an illegitimate president, a liar, a military deserter, a "moral coward" and another Hitler--but now Kerry is begging Bush to use his moral authority to get him out of a fix that he himself created by running a campaign based almost entirely on "war hero" braggadocio.
 

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Clem D said:
Hot off the presses...

Attorney Works for Bush, Anti-Kerry Group

So I guess this is proof that that Bush is coordinating with the Swiftees because there is a story circulating out there that a Bush campaign attorney also advised the Swift Boat Veterans.

The left (including the media) is screaming "gotcha!" but by the time you get to the end of the article it turns out this is more of a case of the pot and the kettle.

The acknowledgment by attorney Benjamin Ginsberg is being cited as supporting sKerry's complaint that Bush is coordinating with the Swift Vets. But Ginsberg says the group came to him only for advice on how to properly follow the wretched disaster known as the McCain-Feingold campaign finance legislation. There are only so many lawyers that know how it works, and he is one of them.

But what about the extensive ties between sKerry's campaign and the Bush-bashing Moveon.org? The lawyers for the DNC are doing the same thing. That's right...you have all this outrage on the left over all this supposed "coordination" but the Democrats are doing the exact same thing. Joe Sandler works for both the DNC and Moveon.org.

Let's recap, shall we?

The Swiftees go to Benjamin Ginsberg, an acknowledged expert on McCain-Feingold, and asks him for advice on how to abide by the law as they run their ads. The Kerry campaign cites that as proof of collaboration between the Bush campaign and the Swiftees, and the media jumps right on board.

Joe Sandler works for both the DNC and Moveon.org, and the media ignores it.
In neither case is a law or rule being violated.

When the Democrats do it, it's fine. When the Republicans do it, it's evil. :rolleyes:
 

Chanman

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Turfgrass said:
Has anyone stopped to ponder just how pathetic this is? For years we've been hearing from the Democrats that President Bush is a dummy, an illegitimate president, a liar, a military deserter, a "moral coward" and another Hitler--but now Kerry is begging Bush to use his moral authority to get him out of a fix that he himself created by running a campaign based almost entirely on "war hero" braggadocio.

Good point Turf. I just saw on TV where they brought up the fact that Ginsberg resigned because he was an advisor. When the Democratic spokesperson acknowledged that the same thing happened w/them, he was silent when asked if their 'advisors' would resign as well. S.O.S.
Wonder why Kerry doesn't sue these ppl for slander or if 80% of this book is true?

Local readers have hard time finding new book

By TIM PAPPA , The Virginian-Pilot
? August 25, 2004

Bookstores in Hampton Roads and across the nation have been swamped by orders for ?Unfit for Command: Swift Boat Veterans Speak Out Against John Kerry? and battered by complaints about their inability to stock the book, which questions the Vietnam-era actions of Sen. John F. Kerry.

The publisher, Regnery Publishing Inc. of Washington , rushed the book to stores ahead of schedule without printing nearly enough to meet the demand. As a result, bookstores and their employees have found themselves as much under siege as Kerry, the Democratic nominee for the presidency.

?It?s the most insane thing I?ve ever seen in bookstores,? said Geno Seay, merchandising manager at Borders in the Hilltop section of Virginia Beach. ?We?ve never had it make it to the sales floor.?

Tricia Roulstone of Virginia Beach said that she was eager to buy the book Tuesday at that store and that she was surprised and suspicious when she was told it wasn?t available.

?Unfit for Command,? by John E. O?Neill and Jerome R. Corsi, accuses Kerry of lying about his wartime record and betraying comrades by returning from Vietnam and alleging widespread war crimes by U.S. troops. O?Neill, the co-writer, is a leading member of Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, a group that is airing television advertisements that also are highly critical of Kerry.

Roulstone questioned the store clerks about the situation.

She said later that she wanted to know why the book was so hard to find while the Borders ?prominently? displayed books critical of President Bush.

?He started this,? she said, referring to Kerry. ?The president should not be determined by a war that happened decades ago. It should be based on competency.?

Other area customers have also complained about the book?s absence, said Brad Mattocks, the store manager.

In fact, people nationwide have lodged thousands of complaints against leading book retailers Borders and Barnes & Noble , accusing them of favoring or suppressing the book.

?Very false,? Mattocks said, pinning the uproar on flawed reports in the news media. ?False 100 percent. We are in the business of selling books.? Catherine Sprouse, store manager of the Barnes & Noble store on Virginia Beach Boulevard in Virginia Beach, said she receives daily shipments of the book but that reserve orders get them all, leaving none for the sales floor.

In Portsmouth, Broad Street Books? stock of ?Unfit for Command? is out, said owner Susan Weaver . More are expected by the end of the week.

?I never get a chance to get them on the shelves,? Weaver said.

And Prince Books in Norfolk is sold out, said owner Sarah Pishko .

The publisher pre-empted a September release by shipping copies Aug. 6 to take advantage of the media buzz, said Jeff Carneal, chief executive officer of Regnery. Initial orders of the book were low ? about 30,000 ? so the early release couldn?t stand up to the mounting demand, according to Publishers Weekly, a trade publication.

The company has reprinted copies seven times since, now totaling about 550,000 with about 325,000 shipped, the publication reported.

?I wish the supply chain was shorter,? Carneal said.

Borders and Barnes & Noble, as well as online bookseller Amazon.com, rank ?Unfit for Command? as their current No. 1 seller.

Beach resident Doug Wilkins took Borders? last reserve copy Tuesday around noon. He said that about five other co-workers had wanted him to pick up a copy for them and that he had figured the shelves would be stocked.

?I just assumed it was a huge order,? Wilkins said.

Jim Bailie, a retired 26-year Navy veteran, secured a copy of the book weeks ago with Borders? first shipment. On Tuesday, the Beach resident bought ?Tour of Duty: John Kerry and the Vietnam War,? a book published this year that gives a more favorable review of Kerry?s record in Vietnam.

Bailie, whose car displays a ?Vets Against Kerry? sticker, said he wants to compare the two books. He said he isn?t concerned so much about Kerry?s medals as much as ?what he said about me and everyone else when he came back.?

?He won?t get my vote,? Bailie said.

Staff writer Brianne Warner and The Associated Press contributed to this story.
 
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Clem D

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DOGS THAT BARK said:
in addition since you all think Mc Cain thinks Kerry is a great guy--here are some quotes the gop should to run to counter the left.
If you just view liberal media you will never see these.

When John McCain came back from his imprisonment by the enemy Vietcong, he wrote in the May 14, 1973, issue of U.S. News & World Report, the POW-turned-senator charging that testimony by Kerry and others before J. William Fulbright's Senate Foreign Relations Committee was "the most effective propaganda [my North Vietnamese captors] had to use against us."

"They used Senator Fulbright a great deal," (a reference to Kerry's 1971 Senate testimony that U.S. soldiers were committing war crimes in Vietnam as a matter of course).

Mc Cain said that Kerry friend and rabid supporter Sen.Ted Kennedy was "quoted again and again" by his jailers at the Hanoi Hilton.

"All through this period," McCain told U.S. News, his captors were "bombarding us with anti-war quotes from people in high places back in Washington. This was the most effective propaganda they had to use against us." While McCain was a prisoner of war in the infamous Hanoi Hilton, Kerry was hard at work supplying the enemy with psychological warfare to be used by McCain's captors and to eventually help the enemy send the US packing



I never said McCain loved kerry. It is a definite that he respects him more than Bush. All I said was that McCain was smeared by the same Lady Merrie Spaeth, which as usual noone wants to comment on. Typical neocons jump into a thread and divert from the question or topic posted by distracting and changing topics.
 

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It's clear Clem your a nam vet and support Bush your OK in his book. If you do not support him look out. Because you ant chit. This from a ducker. And mind you I'm old enough as you are to know the guard was used for ducking the nam war. It was not set up like it is today. I just don't understand Bushes hate for vets. Even in his own party.
 

Chanman

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FACT SHEET: Top 10 Connections Between John Kerry And 527

1. Former Kerry Campaign Manager Jim Jordan Founded Thunder Road Group, A Consulting Firm Representing America Coming Together, The Media Fund And America Votes. "Jim Jordan, a Winston-Salem native, was fired as John Kerry's presidential campaign manager in November?. Now he has started his own consulting firm, called Thunder Road Group. The firm is representing America Coming Together, the Media Fund, and America Votes, all pro-Democratic 527 political organizations gearing up for the 2004 election." ("People," National Journal, 2/28/04)

2. Harold Ickes Is A Member Of DNC's Executive Committee And Head Of The Media Fund And Chief Of Staff To America Coming Together. Ickes "Admits That He Occasionally Tells The Kerry Camp What He's Up To, And He Insists It's Perfectly Legal." (Jim Drinkard, "'Outside' Political Groups Full Of Party Insiders," USA Today, 6/28/04; Paula Dwyer, "Why 527 Is The Dems' Lucky Number," BusinessWeek Online, 7/28/04)

3. MoveOn.org's Zack Exley Joined Kerry Campaign As Director Of Online Communications And Organizing. (Sharon Theimer, "MoveOn Staffer Moves On To Kerry Campaign," The Associated Press, 4/7/04)

4. Bob Bauer Of Perkins Coie Is Legal Counsel To Both Kerry Campaign And America Coming Together (ACT). (Jim Rutenberg And Kate Zernike, "Veteran's Group Had GOP Lawyer," The New York Times, 8/25/04)

* Kerry Campaign Paid Bauer's Law Firm, Perkins Coie, $360,244.28 For Legal Services And Other Expenses. (Federal Election Commission Records, www.fec.gov, Accessed 8/5/04)

* America Coming Together (ACT) Paid Bauer's Law Firm, Perkins Coie, $176,732 For Legal Services And Other Expenses. (Political Money Line Website, www.tray.com, Accessed 8/5/04)

5. Joe Sandler Is General Counsel To DNC While Serving As Legal Counsel To 527s MoveOn.org And Moving America Forward. (Jonathan Groner, "Power Punch," Legal Times, 4/26/04)

6. Erik Smith Is The Media Fund's Executive Director And Worked With Steve Elmendorf, Kerry's Deputy Campaign Manager, On Dick Gephardt's Presidential Campaign. (Jim VandeHei, "Kerry Expected To Emerge From Battle Stronger Than Ever," The Washington Post, 3/3/04)

7. Minyon Moore, A Kerry Campaign Consultant, Serves On Executive Committee Of America Coming Together. (Glen Johnson, "Kerry To Press 'Environmental Justice,'" The Boston Globe, 4/22/03; Lisa Getter, "Kerry Aided By 'Illegal' Soft Money, GOP Claims," Los Angeles Times, 4/1/04)

8. Media Fund Ad Consultant Bill Knapp Hired By Kerry Campaign. (Thomas B. Edsall, "Shifting The Money So The Votes Will Follow," The Washington Post, 5/11/04)

9. Former ACT Employee Rodney Shelton Hired As Kerry's Arkansas State Director. (Michael R. Wickline, "Arkansan To Head Kerry's State Effort," Arkansas Democrat-Gazette, 6/22/04)

10. Kerry's New Mexico Caucus Director, Geri Prado, Is Leading ACT's GOTV Effort In That State. (Michael Finnegan, "Kerry's Low Profile May Cost Crucial Latino Votes," Los Angeles Times, 5/3/04)
 
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Clem D

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See this is what you neocons do. When someone blows apart a theory aka swiftboat veterans lies, you don't attempt to refute it you either clutter the thread with unrelated nonsense or more of the bs that has already been proven tainted.




The swiftees are not credible End of story.

Follow the trail.
 

DOGS THAT BARK

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errr excuse me Clem just which 20+ posts on Kerrys lies and swiftboats truths that I've posted have you failed to read?????
Evidently anything negative you either block out or don't read.
 

Clem D

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Dogs I've red them all. Anything that comes out of the swiftboat vets is Bs. John O'neill wrote it Merrie Spaeth promoted it. Those two are tied together.
 
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