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gman2

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2002 national championship game:
willis mcgahee
20 carries
67 yards

2003 fiesta bowl
darren sproles (who, incidentally, ran for 235 yards against #1 oklahoma one game earlier)
13 carries
38 yards

2004 alamo bowl
vernand morency
8 carries
20 yards

yep, the way to beat ohio state is to definitely line up and try to go right at 'em on the ground.
 

socrstud

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Gman you need to go to sleep buddy....you sound like my father correcting my grammer....I could go to all your threads and look up all your errors while typing but it wouldn't help my argument....and to answer that statement about weis...lol they definately didn't have any success passing it yet they PSU wins...
 
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gman2

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socrstud:

g-r-a-m-m-a-r

as for your suggesting that i take a class on unbiasedly presenting figures, its pretty obvious you havent taken a course on said topic.

you familiar with "post hoc fallacy"? (on second thought, make that a rhetorical question)
when you get to that chapter in your english class, you'll reconsider this penn state argument.

your argument:

penn state rushes for 117 yards and passes for 78 yards against ohio state.

penn state wins the game.

therefore, running the ball is the way to beat ohio state.

basically, its a faulty cause-effect argument.

whats weird is that you normally have a solid approach on these games. but this penn state argument is so ass-backward that its crazy.

if penn state laid any blueprint on how to beat ohio state, its to force troy smith into turnovers and play good defense.
 
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tom

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soccr,
so if Penn St. only had 20 total yds in the game, 12 on the ground and 8 in the air, but somehow manged to win the game, would you still be saying this is the way to beat Ohio st?
I mean they would have rushed for 1/3 more than they threw for.

There were bigger factors in that game than the PSU rushing attack.

And you and Scott getting in on the same side of an argument. Now that's typical.
Birds of a feather
 

socrstud

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gman2 said:
socrstud:

g-r-a-m-m-a-r


as for your suggesting that i take a class on unbiasedly presenting figures, its pretty obvious you havent taken a course on said topic.you familiar with "post hoc fallacy"? (on second thought, make that a rhetorical question)
when you get to that chapter in your english class, you'll reconsider this penn state argument.

your argument:

penn state rushes for 117 yards and passes for 78 yards against ohio state.

penn state wins the game.

therefore, running the ball is the way to beat ohio state.

basically, its a faulty cause-effect argument.

whats weird is that you normally have a solid approach on these games. but this penn state argument is so ass-backward that its crazy.

if penn state laid any blueprint on how to beat ohio state, its to force troy smith into turnovers and play good defense.

You shouldn't say things that you are not sure of...that is called ignorant..."it's not obvious" beacause I was in one....thank you for correcting my grammar again. Goes to show how much I depend on microsoft word for writing papers.

As for my class: I was Simply using a 2 sided arguement which is the best way to go since this is such a highly ego envolved topic in order to satisy systematic processing and not use Heuristic cues. When someone is more envovlved in an issue its important to emphasize both sides of the topic...One needs to emphasizie your most important argument upfront and then also give the opposite sides arguement in a weekened form, then restate again your strongest argument last....Since you are very envolved and do not obviously take me for being a credible source my argument does not fall under your lattitude of acceptance. It is obvious since you are very envolved with this game that your lattitude of rejection is very wide, thus not allowing my arguement, which states,, "that in order to for ND to be effective on the attack they will need to run the ball" to be an effective persuading strategy. And yes that was on my upper level psych final today....maybe your just experiencing cognitive dissonance towards the game because I have threatened your views and placed doubt in OSU powerhouse running deffense, in which you feel as though you need to protect yourself by using self deffensive mechanisms like putting me down for grammar errors in order to make yourself feel better....Yes this was all on my psych final today!!!


...Deffense is not a strength of ND's and I'm not so sure that Weis is sittin at home praying on turnovers in order to win this game. If turn overs come then they will come this is for both teams. we can argue all day about what ND needs to do to win the game, and yes if they create turn overs from Mr. Smith than they will have a good chance of winning, but I think their game plan is this for the offense:

Threaten to pass and run the ball....I've been very surprised with ND's RB since the opening day when he ran all over UPitt, not that UPitt is great by any means on Deffense. This is a very fast and explosive RB....He's very good and I think he could be a key factor in winning this game....


Also by Scott chiming in he was only giving his insight....no need to become deffensive
 
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redsfann

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now that you mention it, I'm adding a unit on the FSU ML.....:D

Just kidding--good luck with your bowl picks, socrstud. The madness that is the bowl season gets going on Tuesday. Should be fun...
 

Dice34

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socrstud said:
They may roll but lets face it, the only thing soft that comes to mind is the NW rush deffense...GL with your card...

By the way Reds fan hope you don't take the FSU ML....you'll be flushing watever money you have down the comode compadre....

My record since I've started posting College football is something like 13-1 or 12-2 hope that makes you feel better


Yeah i took So. Fla vs WVU and I also took Uconn vs Lville...I never said I liked Army

but 13-1 or 12-2 :mj07: , you're kidding right? What about the 4 losses you had on one single play with Fresno? Studs Fresno play?

Don't inflate your record, makes you look like a fool
 

socrstud

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Yeah Fresno is one of those plays....4 losses? Dice your kidding right? I don't see how Fresno amounts to four losses....if you want look through my threads...I've lost on Texas 1st quarter play, Fresno 1st quarter play, I won the 4th quarter play so that means that I broke even, go ahead look it up for yourself, just click on my icon and look it up.....and that's it among all my other thread starters....However, I've lost on a couple half timers but never post them as being great pix, half time is where I get burned....But go ahead and look at all my winners....where are your bowl pix...? I'dd like to see them, not to bash them but to look at them, I have a little more class than that...

By the way Dice if you woulda listened about WVU you would have made a profit instead of going 1-1......GL

as for Navy your right you never said anything about army, my mistake...
 
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Dice34

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In your post you state going 1-3 on that game alone....My bad I didn't know that they weren't great pix and they shouldnt be counted.

Anyway, congrats on all your winners and GL with you bowl picks.
 

socrstud

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I dunno if you read the first line in saying::::::This is what I took? I went 1-1 in that Fresno play and lost my NFL play in which I was referring too....as stated before though that I'm very good at NCAA and not so good with NFL, but getting better...GL with your pix, I'dd like to see them sometime, I'm sure everyone has at least 1 really good play

Sometime when I'm bored enough I'll post win and losses for quarter games, straight ML's, ATS, and halfimes....

when I say 13-2 I mean plays in which I say: this is what I took type of plays, not leans or anything like that but actual bets placed....

As of right now I'm around 8-0 with College football ML's though, and 0-1 with NFL ML's.
 
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Scott4USC

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Socrstud "might" be thinking this. If so, I agree with him. Penn St. was able to beat Ohio St. ND has a much better offense than Penn St. Penn St. couldn'd throw the ball effectively against Ohio St. ND has much better chance at being successful at throwing the ball against OSU. If ND can be effective throwing the ball on OSU, that will open up the running game for ND. Using the pass to set up the run. USC uses this logic. Now ND has an effective balanced attack. VERY VERY tough to defend a team that and run and pass effectively. Big 10 philosophy (for elite teams) is using the RUN to set up the PASS. Basically lets run into each other for a few series. So maybe ND has success using the PASS to set up the RUN. That isn't far fetched. ND is a great passing team with great QB and great OC. ND has one of the best OL's in the country and a very good RB. The pieces are there for ND to be successful. I don't think you can deny that.

*Minnesota had 578 total yards offense against OSU.

*Michigan St. had 476 total yards offense against OSU. @Ohio St.

I think ND has a better offense, better QB and most importantly a better OC than those 2 teams. Doesn't mean ND will have the same type of production but you get the point.

I think it will be a great game. I slightly favor ND because of their offense. (but it can go either way) I think Ohio St. struggles to defend ND's offense. OSU doeesn't do anything special on offense and ND should be able to come up with a solid gameplan defensively. Enough to let ND outscore OSU. ND is the best offense OSU will face all year. OSU is "not" the best offense ND will face all year. Advantage ND.

ND wins 31-24!
 
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Dice34

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Scott4USC said:
Socrstud

*Minnesota had 578 total yards offense against OSU.

*Michigan St. had 476 total yards offense against OSU. @Ohio St.

I think ND has a better offense, better QB and most importantly a better OC than those 2 teams. Doesn't mean ND will have the same type of production but you get the point.



ND wins 31-24!

What does this show me except the excuse you always make about USC....Bend but don't break.

Ohio State won both of those games by 14 and 11, your stats and factoids prove nothing in determining the outcome.
 

Scott4USC

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Dice34 said:
What does this show me except the excuse you always make about USC....Bend but don't break.

Ohio State won both of those games by 14 and 11, your stats and factoids prove nothing in determining the outcome.

Does Ohio St. play a bend but don't break defense? :shrug:
 

Devil Dog

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Points of view

Points of view

I think there is some very good points that has been brought up. One of the reasons that Penn St beat OSU because the Bucks had -2 TOs as they are prone to turning the ball over. Bucks are -7 in TOs this season and ND is +8 : we all know what could happen if the TOs rear its ugly head to either team. My numbers have Ohio St. winning by 10 but I don't believe this is an accurate measure even though my numbers are fairly good this year[best since I started] I think this game is a pickem. If running the ball was the answere then Navy would be playing Jan 4; if passing was the answere then Texas Tech would be bringing home the crystal ball. It's a combination of these and other factors along with a little luck. I just love college football; the season has gone so fast. Good luck on what ever you do as I will be watching this game at home and will not have a dog in this fight.
Best Wishes
Devil Dog
 

socrstud

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Devil Dog said:
I think there is some very good points that has been brought up. One of the reasons that Penn St beat OSU because the Bucks had -2 TOs as they are prone to turning the ball over. Bucks are -7 in TOs this season and ND is +8 : we all know what could happen if the TOs rear its ugly head to either team. My numbers have Ohio St. winning by 10 but I don't believe this is an accurate measure even though my numbers are fairly good this year[best since I started] I think this game is a pickem. If running the ball was the answere then Navy would be playing Jan 4; if passing was the answere then Texas Tech would be bringing home the crystal ball. It's a combination of these and other factors along with a little luck. I just love college football; the season has gone so fast. Good luck on what ever you do as I will be watching this game at home and will not have a dog in this fight.
Best Wishes
Devil Dog


I think that is true....but since not that many teams have had the ability to beat OSU on the pass or by using a running game I feel that the running game is crucial....The team that realizes they need to stay with the run and break down this deffense to set up longer plays will beat this team. OSU has a good running D but no one has tested them physically like PSU....And, lets face it OSU should have beaten Texas and would be playing in the Rose bowl if that moron wouldn't have dropped the ball in the endzone.

Scott, totally agree that NDU can win this game if they run the ball, when they run it, it will set up NDU for the pass, and when they pass it, that will set up the next play for a run. I know that if Quinn throws the ball a lot more than the RB gets to run this team will get beat....OSU will sack Quinn and the offense line will get tired. This is going to be a fun one to watch for sure.

I say NDU 27 OSU 24.... remember, this is if they run the ball....if they throw the ball and do not run often OSU 28 NDU 10
 
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gman2

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socrstud said:
. OSU has a good running D but no one has tested them physically like PSU

texas isnt physical? theyre only 3rd in the country is rushing offense and they rushed for 2.9 ypc against osu.

michigan state isnt physical with their 3 backs?

michigan?

and if penn state is your measure of a physical team, and ohio state help them to barely 100 yards rushing, how in the world is a team like noltre dame going to fare any better in that department. penn st is a good rushing team and they did little against osu. now a weaker rushing offense (nd) is going to hammer out yds on the ground?
 

socrstud

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that's my plan....make OSU work for the points....

by the way....Texas is a laugh when it comes to who've they've played compared to PSU and Michigan....week in and out they play against good competition....they just don't beat OSU and say ok we are a great team....

Michigan was back and forth and your right about the short passes that were hurting OSU. However, NDU has the ability to use their fast back and challenge them....I just won't be surprised if they don't run the ball as much as they pass

I think Texas's defense is good but I'm not completely sold on their offense BECAUSE of who've they played.....Just like I'm not completely SOLD on USC's deffense yet....I feel PSU is just as good as both but that's just me....
 
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socrstud

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redsfann said:
now that you mention it, I'm adding a unit on the FSU ML.....:D

Just kidding--good luck with your bowl picks, socrstud. The madness that is the bowl season gets going on Tuesday. Should be fun...

Madness starts tomorrow....GL!!
 
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