Lynch, Tillman's brother: U.S. military lied

smurphy

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Lynch, Tillman's brother: U.S. military lied

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Former Pfc. Jessica Lynch and the brother of Army Ranger Pat Tillman told a House panel Tuesday that the U.S. military lied about Tillman's death and Lynch's capture.

Also during Tuesday's testimony, the last soldier to see Tillman alive, Spc. Bryan O'Neal, told lawmakers that he was warned by superiors not to divulge -- especially to the Tillman family -- that a fellow soldier killed Tillman.

Lynch testified that after her vehicle was attacked in Iraq in March 2003, she suffered a mangled spinal column, broken arm, crushed foot, shattered femur and even a sexual assault.

But it only added insult to injury, literally, when she returned to her parents' home in West Virginia, which "was under siege by media all repeating the story of the little girl 'Rambo' from the hills of West Virginia who went down fighting," Lynch said. (Watch Lynch set the record straight Video)

"It was not true," she said before gently chiding the military. "The truth is always more heroic than the hype."

The House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform invited the two to testify on how the Pentagon spread false stories about Tillman and Lynch. The committee chairman, Henry Waxman, D-California, went as far as to say that the military "invented" tales.

"The bare minimum we owe our soldiers and their families is the truth," Waxman said. "That didn't happen for two of the most famous soldiers in the Iraq and Afghanistan wars."

An equally blunt Kevin Tillman, Pat Tillman's brother, told the panel that the military tried to spin his brother's 2004 death to deflect attention from emerging failings in the Afghanistan war.

Kevin Tillman, who joined the Army in 2002, was in the convoy traveling behind his brother at the time of the friendly fire incident. He didn't see his brother die.

As the tide was turning in the U.S. battle against Afghan insurgents -- and as media outlets prepared to release reports on detainee abuse at Abu Ghraib in Iraq -- the military saw Pat Tillman's death as an "opportunity," Kevin Tillman told the panel.
Brother calls tale 'calculated lies'

O'Neal's testimony seemed to back Kevin Tillman's allegations of a cover-up.

"I wanted right off the bat to let the family know what had happened, especially Kevin, because I worked with him in a platoon and I knew that he and the family all needed to know what had happened," O'Neal testified. "I was quite appalled that when I was actually able to speak with Kevin, I was ordered not to tell him."

Asked who gave him the order, O'Neal replied that it came from his battalion commander, then-Lt. Col. Jeff Bailey.

"He basically just said ..., 'Do not let Kevin know, that he's probably in a bad place knowing his brother's dead,' " O'Neal told Waxman. "And he made it known I would get in trouble, sir, if I spoke with Kevin on it being fratricide."

The military instead released a "manufactured narrative" detailing how Pat Tillman died leading a courageous counterattack in an Afghan mountain pass, Kevin Tillman said. (Watch Kevin Tillman accuse the military of lying Video)

Even after it became clear the report was bogus, the military clung to the "utter fiction" that Pat Tillman was killed by a member of his platoon who was following the rules of engagement, the brother said.

"They never felt threatened and they still shot up the village unprovoked," Kevin Tillman said. "This was not some fog of war; they simply lost control."

Tillman bristled at the military claim that the initial report was merely misleading.

Clearly resentful, he told the panel that writing a field report stating his brother had been "transferred to an intensive care unit for continued CPR after most of his head had been taken off by multiple .556 rounds is not misleading."

"These are deliberate and calculated lies," he said.

Pat Tillman, who became a national hero after he gave up a lucrative contract with the NFL's Arizona Cardinals to join the Army's elite Rangers force, was awarded the Silver Star, the military's third-highest combat decoration, after the Army said he was killed leading a counterattack.

The Army later acknowledged not only that Tillman was killed by his fellow soldiers, but that officers in Tillman's chain of command knew the counterattack story was bogus.

Though the military blamed the erroneous report on an inadequate initial investigation, Mary Tillman told ESPN Radio last month that everyone involved in the shooting knew immediately that her son had been shot three times in the head by a member of his platoon.

"That was not a misstep; that was not an error," she said. "This was an attempt to dupe the public and to promote this war and to get recruitments up, and that is immoral."

The Defense Department said last month that nine military officers, including four generals, would face "corrective action" in connection with Tillman's death.

The Tillman family released a statement calling the corrective action a slap on the wrist and saying, "Once again, we are being used as props in a Pentagon public relations exercise."

Waxman took the Tillman family's side even before the late Ranger's brother and mother testified.

"The Tillman family was kept in the dark for more than a month," Waxman said. "Evidence was destroyed. Witness statements were doctored. The Tillman family wants to know how all of this could've happened."
Lynch: Truth 'not always easy'

Lynch's testimony began with a recollection of the March 23, 2003, attack and her purported rescue nine days later.

As she and her fellow 11 soldiers drove through Nassiriya, Iraq, they noticed armed men standing in the streets and on rooftops. Three soldiers were quickly killed when a rocket-propelled grenade slammed into their vehicle, Lynch said.

The other eight died in the ensuing fighting or from injuries incurred during the fighting, she said. Lynch later woke up at Saddam Hussein General Hospital.

"When I awoke, I did not know where I was. I could not move. I could not call for help. I could not fight," she said, explaining she had a 6-inch gash in her head and numerous broken bones. "The nurses at the hospital tried to soothe me, and they even tried unsuccessfully at one point to return me to Americans."

On April 1, U.S. troops came for her.

"A soldier came into the room. He tore the American flag from his uniform, and he handed it to me in my hand and he told me, 'We're American soldiers, and we're here to take you home.' And I looked at him and I said, 'Yes, I'm an American soldier, too,' " she recalled.

She was distraught to come home and find herself billed as a hero when two of her fellow soldiers had fought bravely until the firefight's end and another had died after picking up soldiers and removing them from harm's way.

"The American people are capable of determining their own ideals for heroes, and they don't need to be told elaborate lies," she said. "I had the good fortune to come home and to tell the truth. Many soldiers, like Pat Tillman, did not have that opportunity.

"The truth of war is not always easy. The truth is always more heroic than the hype," she said.

Lynch became a celebrity after U.S. troops filmed what they said was a daring raid on the hospital. Lynch, the Army claimed, was shot and stabbed during a fierce gunbattle with Iraqi troops that left 11 of her comrades dead.

Hospital staffers, however, said there were no Iraqi troops at the hospital when the purported rescue took place.

It was later learned that Lynch never fired a shot during the firefight because her gun was jammed with sand.

Before hearing Lynch's testimony, Waxman promised her and her family that the committee would find "the source of the fabrications you had to endure."
 

DOGS THAT BARK

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Interesting Smurph considering article is from CNN and being it was Tuesday I was in Madisonville hotel (CNN only cable news) and got to view proceeding live at about 8:45 or there abouts.

--on Jessica 1st--somehow after the live testimony they put up only the following quotes as this article--and several other media venues-

how about listening to her entire speech in video in attached link--
http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/04/24/tillman.hearing/

Then smurph come back and report in bold print what she said in the other 90% of statement that they ommitted in print and their rebroadcasts. Don't forget her words on the war- the troops and her bebunking the blogs on the staged rescue conspiracy theories.

Then give us a short disertation on term fair and balanced.;)

on hero part--somehow I failed to get any hero/rambo views on her back then--my recall is she froze and never fired a shot. can anyone find any news sources that referred to her as Rambo--I did search and found squat

to my buddy DJV--got to watch CNN today for bout 3 hours as my wifes car was being serviced by mechanic.
1st I like to say Christina is the hottest looking reporter I've seen--bar none.
2nd in 3 hour stint I saw only 2 positive things being reported--one was about ball player hitting 14 home runs in april Rodriguis (spl) i believe
and the other being their ticker tape on market that runs constantly.

did see testimonies above--and the quotes they cherry picket in numerous reports afterwards--and speaking of numerous--in the 3 hour span saw segment of raccoon in ladies house no less than 4 times --and episode of 4 year old getting hammered in end zone no less than 6 times --in 3 hours mind you.

I do now understand how liberals come away with such negative and pessismistic attitude--on a positive note I am considering watching fox and with cnn via pic in a pic just so I can hawk Christina--ssss she's HOT!
 

smurphy

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OK, since you don't like CNN - from FOX News...

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,267983,00.html
Army Ranger: Military Told Me to Conceal Info From Pat Tillman's Brother About His Death

WASHINGTON ? An Army Ranger who was with Pat Tillman when the former football star died by friendly fire said Tuesday he was told by a higher-up to conceal that information from Tillman's brother.

"I was ordered not to tell him," U.S. Army Spc. Bryan O'Neal told the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform.

He said he was given the order by then-Lt. Col. Jeff Bailey, the battalion commander who oversaw Tillman's platoon.

Pat Tillman's brother Kevin was in a convoy behind his brother when the incident happened, but didn't see it. O'Neal said Bailey told him specifically not to tell Kevin Tillman that the death was friendly fire rather than heroic engagement with the enemy.

"He basically just said, sir, that uh, 'Do not let Kevin know, he's probably in a bad place knowing that his brother's dead,"' O'Neal said. He added that Bailey made clear he would "get in trouble" if he told.

In earlier testimony, Kevin Tillman accused the military of "intentional falsehoods" and "deliberate and careful misrepresentations" in portraying Pat Tillman's death in Afghanistan as the result of heroic engagement with the enemy instead of friendly fire.

"We believe this narrative was intended to deceive the family but more importantly the American public," Kevin Tillman told a House Government Reform and Oversight Committee hearing. "Pat's death was clearly the result of fratricide," he said, contending that the military's misstatements amounted to "fraud."

"Revealing that Pat's death was a fratricide would have been yet another political disaster in a month of political disasters ... so the truth needed to be suppressed," Tillman said.

The committee's chairman, Rep. Henry Waxman, D-Calif., accused the government of inventing "sensational details and stories" about Pat Tillman's death and the 2003 rescue of Jessica Lynch, perhaps the most famous victims of the Afghanistan and Iraq wars.

"The government violated its most basic responsibility," said Waxman.

Lynch, then an Army private, was badly injured when her convoy was ambushed in Iraq. She was subsequently rescued by American troops from an Iraqi hospital but the tale of her ambush was changed into a story of heroism on her part.

Still hampered by her injuries, Lynch walked slowly to the witness table and took a seat alongside Tillman's family members.

"The bottom line is the American people are capable of determining their own ideals of heroes and they don't need to be told elaborate lies," Lynch said.

Kevin Tillman said his family has sought for years to get at the truth, and have now concluded that they were "being actively thwarted by powers that are more interested in protecting a narrative than getting at the truth and seeing justice is served."

Lawmakers questioned how high up the chain of command the information about Tillman's friendly fire death went, and whether anyone in the White House knew before Tillman's family.

"How high up did this go?" asked Waxman.

Pat Tillman's mother, Mary Tillman, said she believed former Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld must have known. "The fact that he would have died by friendly fire and no one told Rumsfeld is ludicrous," she said.

Tillman was killed on April 22, 2004, after his Army Ranger comrades were ambushed in eastern Afghanistan. Rangers in a convoy trailing Tillman's group had just emerged from a canyon where they had been fired upon. They saw Tillman and mistakenly fired on him.

Though dozens of soldiers knew quickly that Tillman had been killed by his fellow troops, the Army said initially that he was killed by enemy gunfire when he led his team to help another group of ambushed soldiers. The family was not told what really happened until May 29, 2004, a delay the Army blamed on procedural mistakes.

In questioning what the White House knew, Rep. Elijah Cummings, D-Md., cited a memo written by a top general seven days after Tillman's death warning it was "highly possible" the Army Ranger was killed by friendly fire and making clear his warning should be conveyed to the president. President Bush made no reference to the way Tillman died in a speech delivered two days after the memo was written.

A White House spokesman has said there's no indication Bush received the warning in the memo written April 29, 2004 by then-Maj. Gen. Stanley McChrystal to Gen. John Abizaid, head of Central Command.

"It's a little disingenuous to think the administration didn't know," Kevin Tillman told the committee. "That's kind of what we hoped you guys would get involved with and take a look," he said.

Mary Tillman told the committee that family members were "absolutely appalled" upon realizing the extent to which they were misled.

"We've all been betrayed ... We never thought they would use him the way they did," she said.

The Tillman family has made similar accusations against the administration and the military before, but has generally shied away from news media attention. The family had never previously appeared together and summarized their criticism and questions in such a public, comprehensive way.

"We shouldn't be allowed to have smoke screens thrown in our face," Mary Tillman said. "You're diminishing their true heroism to write these glorious tales. It's really a disservice to the nation."

"Our family will never be satisfied. We'll never have Pat back," she said. "Something really awful happened. It's your job to find out what happened to him. That's really important."

Last month the military concluded in a pair of reports that nine high-ranking Army officers, including four generals, made critical errors in reporting Tillman's death but that there was no criminal wrongdoing in his shooting.

Tillman's death received worldwide attention because he had walked away from a huge contract with the NFL's Arizona Cardinals to enlist in the Army after the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks.
 

kosar

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on hero part--somehow I failed to get any hero/rambo views on her back then--my recall is she froze and never fired a shot.

You crack me up. Seriously. Jessica Lynch the 'hero' was played up by the media for MONTHS. All propogated by the military and carried on by the media. All the media.

Please tell me that you're kidding.

Despite you seemingly scouring Al-Jazeera and 50 other news outlets every day, somehow you seem to want to play dumb on ridiculously high profile things like this and the Walter Reed abortion.

On another note, what do you think about the Tillman thing?

I have a pretty good memory and i'm pretty sure you pointed to his enlistment 3 or 4 years ago as 'evidence' that we were on the right side.

If anybody, as a vet, it would seem that you would be outraged (as I am, as a vet), that this cover-up happened.

But not a peep about that. Strange.
 

Chadman

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Kosar, as you well point out, it doesn't matter what the situation is, some here must protect the war in Iraq at any cost. At the risk of sounding similar to some others here with blanket comments, I get really tired of the same bashing of the media and bleeding hearts, when there are different bleeding hearts that are the real issue.

I sincerely doubt that either Wayne or Wease will touch on this Tillman issue, even though it was part of the original battle cry on being patriotic in our country. Now another real soldier, his brother, is telling a different story than the dubious administration puppets - yes, puppets - and yet the only thing Wayne and Wease are trying to hang thier hat on is believing these guys. Unless they say something that doesn't assist in promoting the new surge. And then they are trumped by the Pentagon, which gets their daily speaking points from the administration.

It's so sad, you can't even laugh any more. Not that some of us ever have.
 

The Sponge

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Kosar, as you well point out, it doesn't matter what the situation is, some here must protect the war in Iraq at any cost. At the risk of sounding similar to some others here with blanket comments, I get really tired of the same bashing of the media and bleeding hearts, when there are different bleeding hearts that are the real issue.

I sincerely doubt that either Wayne or Wease will touch on this Tillman issue, even though it was part of the original battle cry on being patriotic in our country. Now another real soldier, his brother, is telling a different story than the dubious administration puppets - yes, puppets - and yet the only thing Wayne and Wease are trying to hang thier hat on is believing these guys. Unless they say something that doesn't assist in promoting the new surge. And then they are trumped by the Pentagon, which gets their daily speaking points from the administration.

It's so sad, you can't even laugh any more. Not that some of us ever have.

I don't know about Weasal but i would bet my last dollar Dog never thought Tillman was a hero. Giving up all that money would be the bigger issue with him. Money and greed are a step above being patriotic.
 

DOGS THAT BARK

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Smurph The article you posted is Foxes reprint of A.P. story--they have many reprints from A.P. as well as live feed to their top stories 24/7 (fair and balanced)

However they also replayed same select quotes on news so that does not excuse them.

This is very interesting topic--lets look at it and try to leave politics out.

1st Matt on Jessica
I agree she was given a hero's welcome especially in her home town--but the hero's welcome was do to female experience in war and and 1st female captive--and fact she was recued--as i said show me any article depicting her in Rambo scenerio.
I found this interesting in her testimony--that her gun jammed and she never fired a shot---chances of a gun jamming with firing is remote.m-16s jam due to heat after being fired when dirty or chamber having sand per this area. The only possible way for her story to be correct is if she was in the hot zone area and never had shell chambered and could not get one chamber due to sand--had she had shell chambered it would have fired then jammed.

on Tillman---listening to entire transcript is imperative.
The most unexcuseable event in this was whoever was responsible for faking silver star and event described in orders.
As far as article Smurph posted I cetainly would have given same orders not to tell brother what happen "that day" or few days following and probaly not until he was seperated from unit. It is highly unusual for members of same family to go through same training and assigned to same patoon. I would not want a family member carrying a loaded weapon in combat situation among those responsible for family members death--accident or no accident--however this does not excuse the way events that followed were handled especially the bogus silver star.

In listen to Tillmans testimony it appeared to me his co objected was dissing war--which had nothing to do with how brothers death occurred.
If you listen to it he takes several opportunities to bring in Iraq which had nothing to do with brothers death--other than his "opinion" he used the word disaster to explain wars on several occasions--what does this have to do with circumstances surrounding brothers death? Nothing other than him using this as stage for anti war stance.

Now here is thing that really had me perplexed-- his account using testimonys-sworn affidavits ect of what occurred on that day.

I took testimony at of what occurred at face value and could not figure how the part of patoon that fired on them could make such a "what appeared to be blatant fck up. The distance between Tillman and other portion of patoon was not that far--those with Tillman reported they poped smoke--waived arms and even Tillman reportedly even shouted his name--in addition those doing the shooting paused briefly to take u better position. My thoughts were, as I am sure everyoneone else that listened/viewed how incompetent was this outfit.I thought somethings got to be missing that was left out.When I got home from Madisonville I searcged to see what I could find--after almost giving up I found it--in timeline of events--and never found any mention of it in the numerous articles I'd read previously.
Can you find it?
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/eticket/story?page=tillmantimeline

have to go back to madisonville today--will add some tonight.
 

kosar

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1st Matt on Jessica
I agree she was given a hero's welcome especially in her home town--but the hero's welcome was do to female experience in war and and 1st female captive--and fact she was recued--as i said show me any article depicting her in Rambo scenerio.
I found this interesting in her testimony--that her gun jammed and she never fired a shot---chances of a gun jamming with firing is remote.m-16s jam due to heat after being fired when dirty or chamber having sand per this area. The only possible way for her story to be correct is if she was in the hot zone area and never had shell chambered and could not get one chamber due to sand--had she had shell chambered it would have fired then jammed.

Not sure how hard you looked, but here's the very first article that comes up if you google 'Jessica Lynch hero.' But besides this or any other article, your memory really must be a bit rusty on this because the military version at the time was quite different than reality.

As far as her story being correct? Why in the world would somebody concoct a story to make oneself look like much less of a hero than the military was trying to say?

She said her weapon was jammed with sand. What's so unbelieveable about that? Also, you don't have to 'chamber' a round with an M-16. If you have a clip in place, a round is already chambered. Or are you saying that you think she didn't even have a clip in her weapon? Or that she didn't know how to take the safety off?






Jessica Lynch, Hero
By Scott LaBarge

At the same time her Pentagon-inspired image as war hero has been exposed as propaganda, Jessica Lynch has done something genuinely heroic.

Indeed, the can't-miss-story of the small-town West Virginia girl is a classic lesson in the use and abuse of heroic images.

She was first offered to the public as a classic war hero in a Washington Post story reporting a version of events supplied by the Pentagon. The article portrayed Lynch as a valiant soldier who fought off her Iraqi assailants to the last bullet, and who was then rescued from captivity in a blazing fire-fight.

Bit by bit, that story was questioned. It seems now that Lynch never fired a shot, that her wounds were all sustained in an automobile accident, and that her rescuers met no armed resistance. She herself claims to have no memory of her capture. She also asserts that she's not a hero at all, and that the military was wrong to use her as an icon for its own purposes.

She told Diane Sawyer, "They used me as a way to symbolize all this stuff....It's wrong."

Society has a long-standing but silent agreement with its soldiers, especially those singled out as heroes. In order to make a war possible, we need to believe that the war serves just causes, that our actions in war are civilized and humane, and that we represent the side of decency and the right. During the war itself, a government exerts great effort to preserve all these appearances.

Our soldiers, however, see the reality of war. They cannot help but witness the brutality and moral complexities which the government tries its best to hide from the rest of us. These soldiers have the opportunity to challenge the government's chosen narrative.

The public, on the other hand, often does not want to hear that narrative challenged. We prefer the elegant moral simplicity of a story which casts us as the righteous heroes and the enemy as villains. So we strike a deal with the soldiers: Don't tell us what it's really like, we say. Don't tell us about the horrors you've seen, don't expose the lies you know have been told. In exchange, you'll be our hero. We'll praise you to the skies for your courage, we'll hold parades in your honor. Some lucky few we'll even turn into well-compensated icons of our national righteousness. All we ask is that you stick to the script.

To her credit, Jessica Lynch refused to accept this deal.

To be sure, she has not come out as an opponent of the war ? she's not like the Vietnam vets who protested the Vietnam War and were pilloried for it. Moreover, she has garnered a book deal, a TV movie, and several high profile interviews from her sudden celebrity. But in refusing to be a partner in her own lionization, and in refusing all of the future benefits that such a treatment would bring, she has acheived a degree of dignity that demands respect.

The propaganda machine works in part by taking likeable, sympathetic figures and linking them to the war. If you like and admire this person, they say, how can you challenge the purpose for which this person is fighting? It tries to paint the whole war effort with the attractiveness and nobility of one little part.

Jessica Lynch has refused to be used as a human cog in the propaganda machine. That is an act which genuinely deserves our admiration.

This article orginally appeared in the San Jose Mercury News on November 21, 2003.
 

kosar

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Wayne,

On Tillman, I think everyone would agree that it was a major screw-up, but fratricide happens in every war.

I was more interested in your thoughts about the cover-up and blatant lies told to the family and to the country. While you're worried that the dead man didn't deserve some medal, i'm more concerned about the lies.

It's not very often that one 'event' leads to 9 soldiers, including 4 generals, facing courts-martial.
 

kosar

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Jessica Lynch: Hero or pawn?
Issue date: 11/21/03 Section:

In this time when the spotlight is cast on the heroics and sacrifices that young men and women make on the battlefields around the world, here comes the story of Private Jessica Lynch and how she was used as a tool by the Bush leadership to increase support and turn the public's attention away from the negatives of Operation Iraqi Freedom.

The war in Iraq was progressing, and word came out about the ambush of the 507 Maintenance Company on March 23. The story told of a convoy that missed an important turn and stepped into a trap in Nasiriyah, Iraq. High ranking military sources informed reporters covering the war of a story about a 19-year-old woman who acted as a hero, who was wounded by Iraqi gunfire, but kept firing until her ammunition ran out, shooting several Iraqis. The story, was that of Lynch as a "Rambo."

However, in an interview conducted by Diane Sawyer of ABC with Lynch, she indicated that the accounts were not truthful and that "I did not shoot. Not a round, nothing," she said.

"When we were told to lock and load, that's when my weapon jammed. I did not shoot a single round. I went down praying to my knees. And that's the last I remember." This was just the first of multiple instances of the military misinforming the public.

The military painted the picture of how Lynch was subjected to abuse by the staff at the Iraqi hospital where she was held. Lynch later refuted this in her new book, saying that no one among the staff at the hospital was abusive to her. "No one beat me. No one slapped me. No one, nothing," she said.

The most interesting action that was taken by the military was that while Lynch was in a hospital bed in pain and wanting desperately to get home, the military launched a rescue that was filmed in its entirety for reasons not made clear.

Not long after the rescue, U.S. television networks broke onto the air to show people around the world the dramatic night-vision footage over and over.

The media reported how the U.S. Special Forces team, acting on a tip from a brave Iraqi lawyer, engaged in firefights on their way into and out of the hospital.

The only problem was that in fact, there were no firefights at the hospital during the rescue. The hospital staff said there were no Iraqi soldiers there, and questioned the need for the Americans to use force.


Asked whether the military's portrayal of the rescue bothers her, Lynch said, "Yeah, it does. It does that they used me as a way to symbolize all this stuff. I mean, yeah, it's wrong. I don't know what they had, or why they filmed it."

Lynch's story captured the hearts of many Americans young and old. The story deserved to be told to the American people especially during a time when you would only hear about the bad side of the Iraq conflict.

But it simply wasn't necessary for the military to go out of their way to play up the rescue and the whole ordeal that Lynch suffered through.

There were other POWs during the war including members of the 507 Maintenance Company that Lynch belonged to. They didn't receive nearly the same amount of coverage, and they were the ones the Iraqis paraded in front of cameras for the world to see, not Lynch.

It is concerning that there were many points in the Lynch story, in which the details given to the media were exaggerated and were not entirely truthful.

Also, the military should never have used Lynch to advance any political cause. U.S. soldiers sign up to serve their country, to defend it, and not to become a political tool or cause for advancing policy issues. The soldiers deserve more than that.

Andrew Kilgo wrote this column for the Nov. 20 issue of The Voyager at the University of West Florida.
 

gardenweasel

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You crack me up. Seriously. Jessica Lynch the 'hero' was played up by the media for MONTHS. All propogated by the military and carried on by the media. All the media.

Please tell me that you're kidding.

Despite you seemingly scouring Al-Jazeera and 50 other news outlets every day, somehow you seem to want to play dumb on ridiculously high profile things like this and the Walter Reed abortion.

On another note, what do you think about the Tillman thing?

I have a pretty good memory and i'm pretty sure you pointed to his enlistment 3 or 4 years ago as 'evidence' that we were on the right side.

If anybody, as a vet, it would seem that you would be outraged (as I am, as a vet), that this cover-up happened.

But not a peep about that. Strange.

the military is a bad thing...lets disband it....lol


jessica lynch?....it disgusts me that the military tried to make this little scamp a hero....i agree,somebody should catch hell for it...

but the p.c. media came all over themselves with the idea that they had a petite female war hero...

you say nothing about how the media handled this...of course.....

you don`t think that theres a gargantuan amount of media and political pressure on our military?.....

i wish they`d come out with"this little female soldier froze...she cried...she surrendered meekly"....but,how do you think that would have gone over?...you`d have n.o.w. screaming bloody murder...

as for tillman`s brother?.....i`m sure the grief is nearly unbearable......i can understand his lashing out.....and i see democratic politicians and the msm taking full advantage of a family that is grief stricken over the loss of a son and brother....

what i don`t get is pat tillman`s brother carrying on about "abu gharaib" and the "illegal war"...

was he talking about afghanistan?.....obviously he had a completely different mindset about the war than his brother..WHO WAS A HERO........

and there was a time when it would have been considered an exercise in good taste, patriotism, or even in sensitivity for the military to re-characterize pat tillman's death by friendly fire as a death by combat...

not anymore...

pat tillman gave up a pro football career to fight for what he believed in....i`d bet he`d be rolling over in his grave if he could hear his brother`s comments...
 

kosar

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jessica lynch?....it disgusts me that the military tried to make this little scamp a hero....i agree,somebody should catch hell for it...

but the p.c. media came all over themselves with the idea that they had a petite female war hero...

you say nothing about how the media handled this...of course.....


Let me get this straight. All you do is BITCH non-stop about the media being negative all the time regarding Iraq and NOW you are upset because they tried to portray a heroic act as fed to them by the military? WTF?

Little scamp? Nice. All she's done is correct the Pentagons bullshit version of events.


i wish they`d come out with"this little female soldier froze...she cried...she surrendered meekly"....but,how do you think that would have gone over?...you`d have n.o.w. screaming bloody murder...

WTF are you even talking about?

as for tillman`s brother?.....i`m sure the grief is nearly unbearable......i can understand his lashing out.....and i see democratic politicians and the msm taking full advantage of a family that is grief stricken over the loss of a son and brother....[

lol- yes, of course, the 'MSM.' Is this the same 'MSM' that 'came in their pants' reporting the lies that were told to them by the military regarding Tillmans death?

The MSM. Christ. No comment on the military lying for months to this 'grief stricken family?' All to rally dullards like you to support Iraq? Well, support ANYTHING that you're told.

what i don`t get is pat tillman`s brother carrying on about "abu gharaib" and the "illegal war"...

I don't really disagree, but I suppose he's only human in responding to and lashing out at a government that lied and used his brothers death as propaganda.

and there was a time when it would have been considered an exercise in good taste, patriotism, or even in sensitivity for the military to re-characterize pat tillman's death by friendly fire as a death by combat...

not anymore...

What? Are you f*cking kidding me?

'Re-characterize?' LMFAO

So you agree with blatant lies, in order to manipulate clowns like yourself, with no regard to the family who is likely to eventually find out the truth? Pathetic.

'Good taste?' 'Sensitivity?' Only in your eyes, I promise you.
 

The Sponge

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what the hell is a scamp? Stevie easy on weasal he got some really bad news today. Rosie quit the view. Weasal my condolences
 

marine

poker brat
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Jul 13, 1999
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She said her weapon was jammed with sand. What's so unbelieveable about that? Also, you don't have to 'chamber' a round with an M-16. If you have a clip in place, a round is already chambered. Or are you saying that you think she didn't even have a clip in her weapon? Or that she didn't know how to take the safety off?

Just to clear the air... you can insert a magazine into the M16 service rifle and there is NOT a round chambered.
This is standard. You simply insert the magazine, if you are going into a hot zone and the enemy is imminent you may pull back on the charging handle and "lock and load" a round in the chamber.

Without paying much attention to the details of what happened to her as she left her truck... I would guess she hit the sand, had sand go down the muzzle of her barrel, tried to pull back the charging handle and chamber a round and the sand jammed the bolt action while chambering the round.

Regardless, for all those Marines out there reading this... a simple remedial action drill "Tap, Rack, Bang" might have unfuked things for her.
 

Eddie Haskell

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The real scarry thing about this is that despite what is obvious to everyone with a brain, people like Wayne and Gary can defend the most criminal administration in history. Thank God for the 1st amendment, I guess.

These right wing loons shouldn't but continue to amaze me. Are you really that evil or just plain stupid. See ya'll at Taladega. Redneck psycho rubes.

Eddie
 

kosar

Centrist
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Nov 27, 1999
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Just to clear the air... you can insert a magazine into the M16 service rifle and there is NOT a round chambered.

I definitely had that one wrong, as it's been 13 years since I got out and i'm a little rusty, and you're right. You do have to make an action to chamber a round, not that it has anything to do with anything, but yes, you do have to move the bolt rearward.

Was the M-16 the weapon of choice in the Marine recruiting office in Happy Valley, PA?
 
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