marquez/manny predictions off the net

gardenweasel

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Manny "Pac Man" Pacquiao VS Juan Manuel Marquez II Prediction

Manny Pacquiao (45-3-2, 34 KOs) of General Santos City, Philippines, rematch with Juan Manuel Marquez (48-3-1, 35 KOs) of Mexico City will take place on Saturday night at Mandalay Bay in Las Vegas.

The fight fight between the two warriors ended in an action packed majority draw in 2004. Marquez was dropped three times in the first round by Pacquiao. Marquez came back and dominated many of the succeding rounds to force a draw on the judges cards.

This fight should begin where the first fight left off. Look for a quick start by both fighters. By the middle rounds, I think PacMan's training with Freddie Roach will start to pay off.

I have see a few of Manny's workouts at The Wild Card Boxing Gym in Hollywood, and he has never looked sharper. Pacquiao tends to throw straighter punches than Marquez and because of that he should be able to beat him to the punch.

Don't take anything away from Marquez however. He is a true warrior that for sure will come to fight.


Manny's sharpness in the later rounds are going to give him a close, rough and tumble unanimous decision.


The Rest is Up to You...

Michael Porfirio Mason
AKA The Peoples Champ
 

gardenweasel

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In May 2004, Manny Pacquiao of the Philippines knocked down Juan Manuel Marquez, who then held the IBF and WBA featherweight titles, three times in the first round of their epic 12 round encounter.

Somehow the bloodied and battered Marquez of Mexico managed to hold on until the final bell and emerge with a draw. If not for the fact that one judge, Burt Clements didn?t know that he could score a 10-6 round, Pacquiao would have won the fight, however.

Over the next four years, Pacquiao would garner worldwide acclaim as the conqueror of, among others, Erik Morales (twice) and Marco Antonio Barrera. In doing so, he has become a bonafide pay-per-view superstar.

Marquez would make some bad career decisions, one of which resulted in him losing one of his titles to Chris John for a paltry payday. He did, however, re-emerge as a genuine threat to Pacquiao by winning two titles and beating the likes of Barrera and Rocky Juarez.

Now, at the age of 34, Marquez is being viewed as an extremely viable challenger for the rampaging 29-year-old Pac Man.

This Saturday, March 15, Pacquiao, 45-3-2 (35 KOS), and Marquez, 48-3-1 (35 KOS), will enter the ring for their eagerly anticipated rematch at Mandalay Bay in Las Vegas. At stake will be Marquez?s WBC super featherweight crown. The fight will be televised on HBO Pay-Per-View.

Most people agree that Marquez is the more technically proficient fighter, but believe that Pacquiao?s explosiveness and the sheer volume of punches he throws make him dangerous for anyone.

If Marquez could survive such an early onslaught in their first fight and come back to earn a draw, the reasoning also goes that he should be given a good chance of winning the rematch.

Let?s see what 15 boxing insiders had to say:

Tim Smith, New York Daily News: ?Marquez is four years older, but Pacquiao is four years better. He has developed his right hand and really improved during the time between fights. He is the better all-around fighter.? Pacquiao by decision.

Nick Charles, commentator, ShoBox: The New Generation: ?I think the ravages of the last four years have affected Marquez more than they have Pacquiao. Neither is shopworn, but I think that Pacquiao is the fresher fighter and will win by decision.? Pacquiao by decision.

Steve Farhood, commentator, ShoBox: The New Generation: ?I?m going against the grain and picking Marquez. I thought he deserved to win the first fight. He figured out Pac Man?s style better than anyone. I have a sneaking suspicion that Pacquiao is starting to slow down a bit. Marquez should be able to take advantage of that.? Marquez by decision.

James Moore, undefeated junior middleweight, 14-0 (10 KOS), who is headlining the ?A Fistful of Shamrocks? show at Madison Square Garden, which is also taking place on March 15: ?Marquez should outbox Pacquiao and win a decision. Technically I think Marquez is a little better. He looked very good against Rocky Juarez. Because he?s so technically sound, he won?t walk into Pacquiao?s power and get caught like he did last time.? Marquez by decision.

Pawel Wolak, undefeated junior middleweight, 19-0 (13 KOS), who is fighting the co-feature on the March 15 show at MSG: ?Marquez overcame three first round knockdowns to outbox Pacquiao and ?win? on points in their first fight. Pacquiao is explosive, but Marquez will fight much smarter than he did the first time.? Marquez by decision.

Mike O?Sullivan, co-owner of Celtic Gloves Promotions, which is promoting the March 15 card at MSG: ?Pacquiao has had four years to get better. He?s too explosive for Marquez and will stop him within eight rounds.? Pacquiao by stoppage.

Iran Barkley, former multi-division champion: ?Marquez might bring it, but Pac Man is a workaholic and he won?t let him get going. Pac Man has got power, but if he doesn?t finish Marquez early he?s in for a long night. Pac Man got better the last couple of years, so I?m picking him to stop Marquez.? Pacquiao by TKO.

Emile Griffith, former multi-division champion: ?Manny Pacquiao is one of the best pound for pound fighters in the world today. He will have an easy victory over Marquez. He is too fast and too strong.? Pacquiao by stoppage.

Sean Sullivan, editor of Boxing Digest magazine: ?Pacquiao has learned a lot in the last four years, ever since their first encounter. Under trainer Freddie Roach, he has added elements to his repertoire so he won?t be confused by Marquez?s boxing tactics like he was in the first fight.? Pacquiao by decision.

Bruce Silverglade, matchmaker for Celtic Gloves Promotions and the owner of Gleason?s Gym in Brooklyn, New York: ?My antenna tells me that Pacquiao will stop Marquez by the fifth round. He?s very determined and he has a lot to prove. He doesn?t have that many fights left in him, so he wants to go out in a blaze of glory in his last few fights.? Pacquiao by stoppage.

Bernard Fernandez, Philadelphia Daily News and president of the Boxers Writers Association of America: ?The best of Pacquiao beats the best of Marquez. Pacquiao has a lot of interests outside of the ring, but I think that in the last year he has been able to focus more on boxing than he did before. He understood what was happening with the diversions and has taken steps to not let that happen again.? Pacquiao by decision or late round stoppage. If forced to pick, Fernandez said he would go with the TKO.

Peter Wood, author of ?Confessions of a Fighter: Battling Through the Golden Gloves? and ?A Clenched Fist: The Making of a Golden Gloves Champion?: ?I take my predictions very seriously, but I am in left field on this one. I have to go with Pacquiao because he?s aggressive, explosive and has too much muscle. But as much as I think it is his time, I am uncomfortable picking him to beat such a tough opponent.? Pacquiao by decision.

Jill Diamond: WBC female boxing chairperson: ?This is a hard one. My instinct says Pacquiao, but I?m going to pick Marquez. He?s hungrier and edgier and he wants to get back at Pacquiao for the last time. This will be an even battle, but Marquez will prevail.? Marquez TKO 12.

David Selwyn, manager of female flyweight champion Eileen Olszewski and Ronica Jeffrey and Cristy ?Code Red? Nickel: ?Pacquiao has moved to a higher level than Marquez in the last couple of years. Pacquiao should win by a very wide and convincing decision.? Pacquiao by decision.

Bob Mladinich, TSS: ?Marquez came so close to beating Pacquiao the last time, even after that terrible beginning. Pac Man appears to be the kind of fighter who lives and dies by the sword. I believe that Marquez might just be savvy enough to win a close decision.? Marquez by decision.

Totals: 15

Pacquiao: 10

Marquez: 5

Pacquiao by stoppage: 5

Marquez by stoppage: 1

Pacquiao by decision: 5

Marquez by decision: 4

THE TSS CREW

RALPH GONZALEZ
I'm thinking Juan Manuel Marquez takes this fight by unanimous decision.
Marquez is a master boxer and as we know, Pac-Man can be outboxed. Let's not
forget that Erik Morales defeated the Filipino by simply boxing. Marquez is
more technically sound than Morales and I expect him to win this fight with
a score of 116-112 after another rough start.

RAYMOND MARKARIAN
I am going with the Clubber Lang/Rocky Balboa angle for this fight.

Marquez has the determination of Clubber Lang at the beginning of Rocky 3. I have this vision of Marquez doing his training in a dungeon while his opponent is signing autographs and posing for pictures for magazines. Unfortunately for Marquez, this is not a movie, and this version of Manny Pacquiao is not flying back and forth to the Philippines to make a new CD. Pac Man is coming to fight. However, of all the opponents Pacquiao has fought in the past 5 years or so, there were only 2 that seemed to outbox him. Eric Morales is one, Marquez is the other. In their first fight, Morales actually used Marquez?s counterpunching formula to baffle the Filipino warrior. The method worked to perfection because Pacquiao fell in love with the 1-2 punch in both fights. According to Manny?s camp, the old strategy is out the window. If what they say is true, Pac Man has the tools to win. But Manny will not win by knockout. Marquez has too much willpower to lose like that. I expect a very close fight. And there will be some heated exchanges. I would not be surprised if Marquez knocks Pacquiao with a counterpunch in the middle rounds. Marquez just seems like he has more to prove. But when in doubt, think of common opponents, Marquez had a tougher time with M.A. Barrera than Pacquiao did. I like the younger man. Pacquiao by SD.

RON BORGES
I like Marquez by the decision he should have gotten the first time.

RONAN KEENAN
Marquez figures to be a little past his prime now, while Pacquiao
should be better than in 2004. Manny's 2007 form wasn't
scintillating, but he should have enough to edge out a narrow
victory.

PHIL WOOLEVER
Another fine matchup that prefight analysis indicates could go either way on paper (or screen), but might turn out like Toney-Holyfield where the outcome vibe was crystal clear once they walk into the ring. Marquez has not improved as much as Pacquiao since the first fight, but he had stronger fundamentals to begin with. This feels like one of those situations where the Vegas odds (approx 2 1/2 to 1 Pacquiao) are just right. Don't be surprised if Pacquiao roars to an early, if less than spectacular victory.
 

gardenweasel

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By Tim Starks | March 13th, 2008
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Coming up Saturday on HBO: The second most important fight that can be made in boxing, behind only the possibility of Floyd Mayweather-Miguel Cotto. A long-overdue rematch of a thrilling 2004 draw. Two of perhaps the top three boxers on the planet, once again behind only Mayweather. One half of the best boxing brother combo ever versus one national icon, looking to stomp down the last of another nation?s great fighters to complete his wall of trophy heads. A made-in-heaven style match-up between a gifted, slick, offensive-minded counter-puncher and an aggressive, go for broke, all-action supernova.

Yeah, you should probably check out Manny Pacquiao-Juan Manuel Marquez II.


The two brothers many consider the finest boxing sibling pair ever are separated by eight pounds and two years, and in this month of March, they could not be more alike. Little brother Rafael Marquez just two weeks ago took on an all-out warrior, Israel Vazquez, in a rematch of a previous stunning exchange of blows that left mystery behind instead of conclusive answers. Little brother fell just? that? short of winning, but he made history in how he fought.

Now it?s time for big brother Juan Manuel Marquez to answer the questions that linger from his own inconclusive war with a fiercely explosive foe, Pacquiao, but the stage is bigger, the two fighters more accomplished and familial and national pride are more heavily at play.

Junior lightweight (130 lbs.) Pacquiao, one of boxing?s true superstars and the most famous person in the Philippines, is considered by nearly everyone the second-best fighter active today, but Juan Manuel Marquez isn?t far behind ? some see him just behind Pacquiao, in the three slot, in large measure because the pair fought to a draw in 2004. (Junior featherweight [122 lbs.] Rafael Marquez also falls into most everyone?s top 10 because of his closely-split three battles with fellow pound-for-pounder Vazquez over the course of 2007 and 2008.)

It will be hard to top the finale of the Vazquez-Marquez trilogy. But if you?ve had the fortune of catching the inaugural Pacquiao-Marquez bout, you know that Pacquiao-Marquez II is a Fight of the Year contender in any year it happens. And, like I said: There are some different factors at play here that Vazquez-Marquez just doesn?t have.

For one, if not for the outcome of Vazquez-Marquez III, Juan Manuel doesn?t have the extra incentive of avoiding back-to-back brotherly losses. A more obvious motivator, though, is that Pacquiao has wrought havoc on Mexican fighter after Mexican fighter, including two all-time greats, Marco Antonio Barrera and Erik Morales. In popularity, Marquez has always been held a notch below those two. But after Pacquiao knocked Morales out in two of three and beat Barrera in both meetings, Marquez is the last line of defense south of the border. He is the only remaining truly great Mexican fighter around Pacquiao?s weight who can say, ?Yeah, but he didn?t beat me.?

Pacquiao, who has embraced his ?Mexican Killer? persona, surely doesn?t like him saying it, as much as it is not satisfactory for Marquez to say, simply, that he didn?t lose. He wants to win. Pacquiao wants to erase the doubts conclusively, and the doubts he?s fostered about his career of late. It is unwise to buy into the hype that ?X fighter is having the best training camp of his career,? but when the emotions run this deep, and when credible reporters are reporting it from their own eyes ? as they are for Pacquiao-Marquez II ? why doubt it?

The respective ring personas of Pacquiao and Marquez made their first fight fantastic.

Pacquiao, at his best, comes at his man like a force of nature, fast, hard and without any regard for what?s in his way. I should say: At his best, Pacquiao does all that, but with more than just one hand aimed straight for the noggin. The Pacquiao that met Marquez in 2004 really only punched with his left, and only at the head, because he?d had little need for much else. He?d sliced through everyone with it, including, shockingly, Barrera. For all his ring wars, no one had so one-sidedly battered Barrera the way Pacquiao did with all that speed and power.

Marquez was the one who exposed Pacquiao?s limits. Pacquiao looked on the verge of another one-sided beatdown of a Mexican great when he dropped Marquez three times in the first round. I thought it should be stopped. I was wrong. Marquez got back up and figured out how to time Pacquiao?s incoming left hand, and, suddenly, it was a fight. When Morales fought Marquez in 2005, he took his game plan straight from Marquez, and he won with it. Pacquiao had no choice but to learn to use his right hand, and punch to the body. He did, and that made him not just a dangerous fighter, but a great one. Morales paid the price for the improvement he forced on Pacquaio, getting knocked out twice by the Pac-Man in 2006. But then, Pacquiao?s focus seemed to wander. He ran for political office. He looked pedestrian, by his standards, beating some decent contenders and then Barrera in a rematch. In that fight, he showed more technical polish than ever, even acting like he was interested in defense (gasp!), but he wasn?t his old whirlwind self, had trouble making the weight, and by the end of 2007, he was making New Years? resolution to end his many bad habits, like gambling.

Marquez, in the time since 2004, has become more like Pacquiao, even as Pacquiao has become more like him. Marquez is the all-around excellent boxer, who has the total array of punches, craft and skill that ought to be in textbooks, and even defense, when he wanted to employ it. Earlier in his career, he employed it too often for some. But much as Marquez, via Morales, forced Pacquiao to become a better fighter, Pacquiao forced Marquez to put on display his warrior heart. It takes a lot to get up from three knockdowns in one round, especially if it?s the first, and outbox one?s opponent for the balance of the fight. Marquez said he became even more offensive-minded after his close, disputed decision loss to Chris John in John?s home country of Indonesia, because he realized that if he wanted to erase all doubt of whether he was a winner ? and Marquez has caught some bad breaks in his career, with close decisions often not going his way ? he needed to go for the knockout. He did just that in his subsequent fights. He did it most especially against Barrera in his career-best win in 2007. He got knocked down once, sure, but he went for it, and it paid off in the end when he got the decision victory.

There are some who believe Marquez has slipped a little bit. I don?t. There are many who think Pacquiao has gotten better. I do, but I also think he has allowed rust to collect on his newfound skills by basically wasting 2007. I think this fight boils down to basically one thing: Will Marquez try to play Pacquiao?s game, or will Pacquaio try to play Marquez??

To those who say ?Marquez gets hit more these days,? I say it?s he?s merely because he?s opted to trade more, lead more. He?s a counter-puncher by nature, preferring to let his opponents make mistakes before initiating his offense, and he can shift back to it when he wants. Look at what he did to Rocky Juarez last year ? he practically shut him out with counter-punching. Juarez isn?t a great, but he gave Barrera all he could handle. Now, maybe you say, ?Marquez had a rough time with Barrera, but Pacquiao beat him handily twice.? I answer with a boxing cliche: Styles make fights. Barrera vs. Marquez is a different style match-up than Barrera vs. Pacquiao, and Barrera fought far more cautiously against Pacquiao the second time around than he did against Marquez.

Pacquiao has a significant age advantage, but I think Marquez may have the slight edge on desire right now over Pacquiao, who surely wants to win this fight badly but is thinking about what?s next. Like Nate Campbell last weekend toppling young Juan Diaz, Marquez is the older of the two, and knows that this is very much like his last stand. All he?s ever wanted is to beat Pacquiao and now he?s getting his chance.

So back to the question: Will Marquez fight aggressively, like he has been lately, and forget about counter-punching? If he does, I bet he loses. Or will Pacquaio fight smartly, like he has been lately, and forget about all-out aggression? If he does, I bet he loses. But whatever the mathematical match-up ? smart vs. smart, aggressive vs. aggressive, smart vs. aggressive ? it should be fantastic.

My prediction: Marquez by an extremely close decision. Marquez says that as Pacquiao has become more polished, he has become more predictable, and that makes him less dangerous. I don?t think Marquez will come out swinging wildly, and instead will fight a very smart counter-punching fight. Even though Pacquiao?s improved, he?s still not in Marquez? league when it comes to technique.

Confidence: 60%. That may be a little high. The conventional wisdom is that Marquez will ?have to fight a perfect fight? to deal with Pacquiao. If Marquez comes out early deciding to trade, he?ll be put back into his place fairly quickly by Pacquiao, who always gets the better of trades with his superior power.

My allegiance: Marquez is, admittedly, my favorite fighter. ?Pacquiao at his best? is in my top five. What?s not to love about either of these guys? But I feel like, even if Marquez wasn?t my #1, he?s still the easier man to root for. Beating Pacquiao is his holy grail, and he?s got to be the underdog coming in. I can root for Pacquiao the next day.
 

gardenweasel

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Saturday night's Juan Manuel Marquez-Manny Pacquiao fight won't be the most-discussed boxing match of the year and it won't be the most profitable, but I think it's going to be the best fight of the year.

Marquez and Pacquiao, who are fighting at 130 pounds, are clearly the class of their division, and many would argue that after Floyd Mayweather, they're the two best fighters in the world regardless of weight class. They fought to a wild draw in 2004, and they're both still on top of their games.

Here are the details:

What: Juan Manuel Marquez vs. Manny Pacquiao for the Ring Magazine and WBC super featherweight/junior lightweight titles.

When: Saturday, 9 p.m. ET

Where: Mandalay Bay Resort & Casino, Las Vegas

How: Pay-per-view, $49.95 (high definition is $59.95), or just follow along with the FanHouse live blog.

A prediction is after the jump.

The first time they fought, Pacquiao knocked Marquez down three times in the first round, and then took on an uncharacteristically measured approach to the rest of the fight. Although one judge gave most of the last 11 rounds to Pacquiao, one of the judges thought Marquez absolutely dominated the remaining 11 rounds, another judge thought Marquez won most of the remaining 11 rounds, and the result was a draw.

Any time two titans fight and the judges see three different things (the scores were 115-110, 113-113 and 110-115), a rematch is something that everyone wants to see, and it's surprising that it has taken four years to get this one done. But it will be worth the wait.

Both Marquez and Pacquaio say they're going to have a different strategy going into this fight than they had the last time. Although Marquez might be a better fighter now than he was in 2004, I expect to see Pacquaio use his right hand effectively, hurt Marquez early the way he did the first time they fought, and not let up.

Prediction: Pacquiao by knockout.

Michael David Smith
Filed under: Boxing, Featured Stories, MMA/Boxing
 

gardenweasel

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(espn.com voters poll)

Wow!! 66% for Pacquiao?we?ll see



Okay?.To many boxing writers and commentators, this fight is an easy one to pick, and its to no surprise that they all believe that Pacquiao has the skills to destroy the Mexican Legend once again, the same way he did the first time. I could never have dissagreed more, although I believe that Pacquiao can (and has) beat Barrera, I don?t think it will be so easy this time as the first. We know the difficutlies that Barrera went through in his training camp in preperation for his first bout with Manny, and now that Marco has given himself 100% to this training camp, I belive he can win, and if he loses, it will be by a close decision. In their first fight, Barrera started off on a bad foot, he would back up into the ropes and allowed Manny to keep him there as he bombed away landing every power shot with stunning accuracy, Barrera abandoned his jab that night, he was relying on his power shots that took no effect because they were not set up with a jab right hand counter shot. This time should be different.


In their first bout, Manny had much to prove, he was the underdog and virtually unknown and he was fighting ?BARRERA?, of coarse Barrera was the obvious pick, he had already beaten some great fighters and was expected to blowout the unknown Filipino. But now its different, Pacquiao has risen to a new level by beating some of the greatest Mexicans you can find, you will see that he will enter the ring over anxious (despite the words of his camp and trainer Freddie Roach) and he will fall right into Barrera?s plan (so I hope). Barrera has been counted out plenty of times in the past, and every time the odds were against him, he would step up his game and come out with an tremendous performance no one knew he could form, and I think wer?re in for another good Barrera surprise.


I am going to give my keys to victory (and prediction) for both fighters, as I believe that both fighters can pull out a win.


Pacquiao: 9th round TKO


Pacquio has that killer instinct, he attacks you when you think you?ve been given a breather, his non stop pressure usually gets to his opponents towards the end of the bouts, and this fight will be no different. Manny must use a jab, he usually lunges in with his power punches throwing himself off balance, and if he?s not prepared, Barrera will counter those bombs with precise combinations to the head and body. In their first bout, most of Manny?s success was when Barrera would neglect his offense and rely mainly on his defense, if Barrera repeats these bad habits, Pacquiao can take advantage with his straight dynamic power shots as Barrera covers up and retreats in order to survive. As many people claim that Pacquiao can win decision in this highly anticipated rematch, I think that Pacquiao must KO the strong Barrera to secure a win, because Barrera is coming strong and will be prepared. If Manny can execute a strong offense, he can get to Barrera in the late rounds, if he lets Barrera counter and land his unique jab, Pacquiao will have tremendous difficulty getting to Barrera?s chin.


Barrera: UD (Unanimous Decision)



Barrera has been in the ring with some all time greats, too many to list, and in this fight he has his work cut out for him, he?s gonna be in the ring with a little monster who?s main purpose is to destroy you, and you must fight back or he?ll kill you. But that little monster can be beat, it is not impossible, Barrera has beaten the unbeatable, but the question is: Can he do it this late in his career against a guy who?s beat him before? I think so, if Morales can do it, so can Barrera.

When Pacquiao received a draw against Juan Manuel Marquez in May of 2004, you witnessed Pacquiao being countered and nearly humiliated as he was lit up with numerous counter punches that landed as Pacquiao tried to get in his straight left hand. Pacquiao throws himself off balance as he reached with his punches, as he?s developed into a more two fisted puncher, I think Barrera can use his veteran tricks to mute Pacquiao?s onslaught long enough to inflict his own damage. If Barrera took notes after Pacquiao?s fights against Marquez and Morales, he will notice that a counter puncher can beat a fast demon like Pacquiao, the thing is not to get hit, which is much easier said than done. But if anyone can do it, Barrera can. Barrera must stay in close to Pacquiao, watch both of his hands, and as Manny attempts those quick punches, a jab and straight right hand can (and will) land, Barrera also must circle Pacquiao, he cannot stand right in front of him, use lateral movement to stay away from those straight left hands. Barrera?s key to victory (IMO) is counter, counter, counter?all night long, just like Marquez and Morales did, that seems to be Pacquiao?s weakness,
 

gardenweasel

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#10 Rafael Marquez. Honestly, it?s just a hunch. His brother just lost to Israel Vazquez two weeks ago; maybe it?s just a bad time to be a fighting Marquez?

#9 Chris John. Something tells me that Pacquiao?s savvy trainer Freddy Roach will be borrowing whatever he can from Chris John?s surprisingly easy victory over Marquez two years ago.

#8 Age. At a prime 29 years of age, I think Pacquiao has more gas left in the tank than the 34-year old Marquez.

#7 Competition. Since their first bout nearly four years ago, Pac-Man has knocked out Erik Morales (48-6) twice, dominated Marco Antonio Barrera (63-5), and knocked out Oscar Larios (60-6). Not a bad resume.

#6 Location. You?d think Las Vegas would be a clear home-field advantage for Marquez. He?ll have his fans, no doubt, but Pac-Man?s rabid Filipino fans do use their frequent flyer miles. They?ll be there, and they will be loud.

#5 Style. Lately, there appears a definite bias towards fighters who press the action, even if they are not as effective as they may appear. If this fight goes the distance, Pacquiao should be in good shape.

#4 Chin. Not that Marquez has a bad one, but Pacquiao knows he can drop him, and drop him more than once.

#3 Speed. Although Marquez is a very quick counter-puncher, Pacquiao has freakish speed for someone who punches so hard.

#2 Power. The power ratio is always in Pacquiao?s favor in this weight class (Edwin Valero aside). It will be the difference here, as I expect Pac-Man to knock out Marquez late.

#1 Me. I?m not one to brag but I have a 5-1 record in boxing predictions this year, so I am probably right!

(this guy said that john easily defeated marquez?....i didn`t see it,but i heard it was close with some having marquez winning....and he said that manny k.o.`ed larios?....maybe i shouldn`t have posted this one...)...
 

Sonny Palermo

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Manny's fans don't have to use frequent flyer miles - there is a large Filpino community right here in Vegas (I speak with some of them once or twice a month at Pinoy Pinay on Sahara and Maryland, great BBQ Pork sticks.)
Obviously more Mexicans in the city, but having been at the first fight I can say the ratio seemed even. This may be because while Vegas may have more Mexicans they do not all go to the fight, whereas it is possible a higher % of the total Filipino population goes - this is their one chance to see their national hero/treasure, kind of like if you were an American living abroad in France, and Paris Hilton was doing a night club appearance there (sarcasm, of course.)

Liked the Starks column,
thanks for posting it, GWeasel.
 

gardenweasel

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my pleasure sonny....had a half hour to kill and pulled some stuff off the net for those that don`t have the time...

funny that you mentioned paris hilton.....i have a recurring fantasy/dream that consists of me being powdered and diapered by the princess herself.....

:bed:
 

tonymontana

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my man says pac man straight and Pac inside. Pretty big straight wager, small ko prop.
I was initially on Marquez but not even one of my parlays made it this far Maccarnelli killed alot of them.
I am going with Pac inside at 216 and some of this either fighter knocked down or out at plus 120.
good luck to all of you.
 

gardenweasel

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i like it,tony.......that`s basically the conclusion i came to,also....was thinking about the first morales/pacquaio fight and how drastically things turned in the 2nd and 3rd go rounds...and morales ,imo,was naturally a little bigger than marquez...

hate to say it,but,push comes to shove,i just think it`s manny`s time....he`s younger,stronger and just more dangerous...

i took him inside the distance at +200 and by decision at +200(don`t ask me why i did it like that)....was gonna buy out,but i think i`ll stand pat..

like the knockdown prop,too...

strangely enough,i`ll probably be rooting for marquez,though....
 
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Romi

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i like it,tony.......that`s basically the conclusion i came to,also....was thinking about the first morales/pacquaio fight and how drastically things turned in the 2nd and 3rd go rounds...and morales ,imo,was naturally a little bigger than marquez...

hate to say it,but,push comes to shove,i just think it`s manny`s time....he`s younger,stronger and just more dangerous...

i took him inside the distance at +200 and by decision at +200(don`t ask me why i did it like that)....was gonna buy out,but i think i`ll stand pat..

like the knockdown prop,too...

strangely enough,i`ll probably be rooting for marquez,though....

I can tell you why you did it like that. As long as pac wins, you win even money on your total net bet(perhaps with the exception of a tech dec, in which case you might be screwed). In the event of a draw you also lose but that is remote. On the other hand if you bet Pac straight out you need to bet 2 to win 1. If I bet, I may go the same route. I'm leaning towards Pac.
 

gardenweasel

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I can tell you why you did it like that. As long as pac wins, you win even money on your total net bet(perhaps with the exception of a tech dec, in which case you might be screwed). In the event of a draw you also lose but that is remote. On the other hand if you bet Pac straight out you need to bet 2 to win 1. If I bet, I may go the same route. I'm leaning towards Pac.

i was wondering about the tech dec. issue,romi....wouldn`t a tech decision in manny`s favor be "inside the distance"?.....the prop doesn`t mention "k.o." or "stoppage"...

can anybody clarify this ?
 

BOXLOCKS

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i was wondering about the tech dec. issue,romi....wouldn`t a tech decision in manny`s favor be "inside the distance"?.....the prop doesn`t mention "k.o." or "stoppage"...

can anybody clarify this ?


Yes, a technical decision is considered inside distance at 5dimes, but not ko,tko,dq which is offered at every other book but dimes. A Draw would be the only way you'd get screwed by doing it the way you did

You are basically playing "Pac wins only" at -200

gl bl
 
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tonymontana

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to gardenweasel inside the distance covers tech dec. but if it is a draw you lose everything.

to Romi
thats not correct you get exactly -200 and lose everthing if its a draw.
example you wager 100 on dec and 100 on ko both at plus 200.
If pac wins Ko or dec you win 100 dollar net. You win 200 one bet but you also lose 100 on the other.
Once a year i get stuck into the same illusion with prop bets. Some times there are better odds available but not often.
 

gardenweasel

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to gardenweasel inside the distance covers tech dec. but if it is a draw you lose everything.

to Romi
thats not correct you get exactly -200 and lose everthing if its a draw.
example you wager 100 on dec and 100 on ko both at plus 200.
If pac wins Ko or dec you win 100 dollar net. You win 200 one bet but you also lose 100 on the other.
Once a year i get stuck into the same illusion with prop bets. Some times there are better odds available but not often.

yeah...if you look in frank`s marquez/ pacquaio thread(i posted "zippy"),i was gonna post the 2 plays,then realized that it was not much more than a basic straight play.....

on bad days, my i.q. equals my hat size.....
 

Sonny Palermo

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I only had one play, as posted in another thread here, wherein I said it would play out just like Raffy/Vazquez III; turns out that was like picking an NFL game by exact score;

GW - I have a couple fantasies, since you posted your Hilton one I'll share some of mine:

#1 - The Steinem Situation

I am on a cruise ship. It is late at night.
All of a sudden - the sirens sound the call to "ABANDON SHIP!". We're sinking.
Me and the other passengers gather on deck, trying to recall proper procedures from the pre-departure muster that we were too hammered to pay attention to.
We begin the call "women and children first".
All the children are safely loaded first.
All of the woman go next.
Due to cost saving measures by the cut rate cruise line there is a shortage of life boats. We are down to the last available seat, on the last available life boat.
The last woman on board the cruise ship steps up, and starts to step over the rail to take the last seat.
I recognize the tree trunk calf of Ms. Gloria Steinem, staunch women?s lib advocate for equal rights.
I grab her forearm to halt her progress over the side, look her dead in the eye and say . . .
"Not so fast, bitch."

2 - The Stewart Sticky Wicket

I am a guest on The Martha Stewart Show, an episode on sexual hygiene. The know-it-all control freak is attending to me orally while wearing only a dental bib, giving instructions to her audience as she goes, in that smooth, soothing voice of hers, just as if she was describing how to make a home-made apple pie. The fantasy peaks not when I do, but when I get to admonish Miss Perfect in front of her audience for committing a blatant faux pas in the manners department - attempting to speak with her mouth full.


I have a Paris one too, in which she's trying to get in the party Pure is having for me to celebrate my book publishing deal, but it's a little too graphic for here, basically consists of us telling her if she wants to get in she has to do something degrading, right on the outside bar, she does it, so we let her in - then toss her over the railing.
 
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frank s.

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Sonny; you hit the nail on the freakin head real good! Played out exactly as you said. That pecker-head Merchant then goes on to make Marquez feel just peachy by asking him if it isn't the story of his cursed life, etc. What a mook. The guy just fought his heart out and this clown adds insult to injury.
 

Sonny Palermo

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I was not happy with the amount of disrespect shown to Juan Manuel by Larry and Lampley during the undercard, when they kept mentioning Pacman as a possible future opponent, as if the outcome of the main event was a foregone conclusion.

I didn't keep score but I'm not sure Pacman won, certainly could have gone either way. Was not at all surprised to hear the following words come out of Manny's busted up one eyed face - "No rematch."
He beat Morales. He beat Barrera. He won against Marquez. A bit of difference there and I doubt he will chance a different outcome in a rematch.

A guy from HBO told me Larry would be gone this year, surpised to see him still on the telecasts. Only thing worse than his scripted pre-fight blabbering is his in-fight blabbering commentary and his post fight non-sensical stammering interviews. At this point he has become an embarrasment to the production and needs to be removed. It's like listening to Rizzuto in his final year of Yankee games, only w/out the unintentional humor. He also incorrectly stated that Marquez turned down Naseem, which is not quite accurate. He took step aside money, a free pay day for a one fight diversion, not knowing Naseem had no intention of ever fighting him and would sidestep future mandatorys.

As for Lampley, his sarcastic comments on putting the ring card girls on-camera between rounds show that he dos not understand his audience and marketing, oneof the reasons boxing is behind MMA and wrestling for pay-per-view buys. I have always been suspect of him as a former Pteradactyl-lover, but he must always be given respect if for nothing more than the time he chased Kevin Duffy from his apartment while Duffy ran like a little girl.
Of course, Stu had the final laugh, as afterwards ads for Duffy contained the marketing tag line "As seen on HBO!"
 
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gardenweasel

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"the bunker"
I only had one play, as posted in another thread here, wherein I said it would play out just like Raffy/Vazquez III; turns out that was like picking an NFL game by exact score;

GW - I have a couple fantasies, since you posted your Hilton one I'll share some of mine:

#1 - The Steinem Situation

I am on a cruise ship. It is late at night.
All of a sudden - the sirens sound the call to "ABANDON SHIP!". We're sinking.
Me and the other passengers gather on deck, trying to recall proper procedures from the pre-departure muster that we were too hammered to pay attention to.
We begin the call "women and children first".
All the children are safely loaded first.
All of the woman go next.
Due to cost saving measures by the cut rate cruise line there is a shortage of life boats. We are down to the last available seat, on the last available life boat.
The last woman on board the cruise ship steps up, and starts to step over the rail to take the last seat.
I recognize the tree trunk calf of Ms. Gloria Steinem, staunch women?s lib advocate for equal rights.
I grab her forearm to halt her progress over the side, look her dead in the eye and say . . .
"Not so fast, bitch."

2 - The Stewart Sticky Wicket

I am a guest on The Martha Stewart Show, an episode on sexual hygiene. The know-it-all control freak is attending to me orally while wearing only a dental bib, giving instructions to her audience as she goes, in that smooth, soothing voice of hers, just as if she was describing how to make a home-made apple pie. The fantasy peaks not when I do, but when I get to admonish Miss Perfect in front of her audience for committing a blatant faux pas in the manners department - attempting to speak with her mouth full.


I have a Paris one too, in which she's trying to get in the party Pure is having for me to celebrate my book publishing deal, but it's a little too graphic for here, basically consists of us telling her if she wants to get in she has to do something degrading, right on the outside bar, she does it, so we let her in - then toss her over the railing.

also..sonny on jim lampley,"I have always been suspect of him as a former Pteradactyl-lover".......

for the uninformed,google "bree walker lampley"...i love ya` sonny,but,you`re going to hell........

lol.......excellent...

being that we`re here in the tall grass,maybe you can help me....

i`ve been having a heated argument with my old lady about what "she considers having a threesome"....

she`s not buying my argument that "my inflatable doll does not qualify as another woman".......

i think i`ve got the high ground here...
 
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Sonny Palermo

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Kidding aside, great as a 3some is it is the death of a relationship, that's why I save 'em up for when I'm about to toss her anyway. But you're right - the doll doesn't count. And yes, I am going to hell, but not for the Bree comment. I believe it is our God-given right, nay, duty, for normal people to make fun of the physically deformed (I'm pretty sure I'm right on this point otherwise God wouldn't have made it so funny. But I've been wrong before.)
The reason I am going to hell is "The Jesus Book" which I still hope to publish someday:

Pissed off at the proliferation of sin in the world, Jesus suggests it might be a good time for the Apocalypse. When God disagrees, Jesus decides to drop in on Las Vegas to preach a little righteousness in Sin City. As punishment for leaving Heaven without permission God grounds him, taking away Jesus? ability to perform miracles, leaving him stranded in Vegas with no way to return home and even worse ? no way to prove who he really is. After getting arrested for vagrancy on his first night back, Jesus is sent to a mental institution as a nut who thinks he?s the son of God. Eventually, with no money and nowhere else to go, he ends up living with the homeless at Sunset Park. He puts together a group of Apostles, including a washed-up one-hit wonder Rock Star, a Vietnam Vet who believes the war isn't over and is the terror of the Chinatown district, a dwarf that swears he?s Elvis? twin brother Aaron who supposedly died at birth and a 46 year-old Trekkie called Captain Kirk. Together they try to help Jesus keep out of trouble so he can get back to Heaven. And in Vegas that ain?t easy ? even for the Lord.
 
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