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Was that Mags behind the camera?
Was that Mags behind the camera?
Matt Damon Defends Teachers
- Thread starter Trench
- Start date
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Wow, Mags... that one's gotta sting. :0003
Wow, Mags... that one's gotta sting. :0003
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I suspect one's opinion of teachers has much to do with their own interest in learning.
I suspect one's opinion of teachers has much to do with their own interest in learning.
- Feb 26, 2001
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I couldn't have said it any better. Without an education you are a nothing. Intellectual curiosity is something we rarely see these days. Just look at this board. :facepalm:
Yup. When you have a guy right here in this forum arguing that teachers making $47K are overpaid because they only work 9 months and their unions get them better benefits than Wal-mart serfs, well... you begin to see the problem.
It's the same old union busting shit. Now the Republican Taliban are holding the FAA funding hostage, hoping Obama will cave on their anti-union demands.
That's right, those "job creating" Republicans have put 74,000 people out of work, and cost the government a billion dollars. It's blackmail, pure and simple.
They can't get what they want through the democratic process, so they take hostages and demand ransom.
No different that the hostage taker's note - "Ten million in small bills, or I'll mail your kid back to you in pieces".
You can't negotiate with fanatics.
Obama should NEVER negotiate with hostage taking black mailers. The only thing they understand is a bullet through the head.
That's right, those "job creating" Republicans have put 74,000 people out of work, and cost the government a billion dollars. It's blackmail, pure and simple.
They can't get what they want through the democratic process, so they take hostages and demand ransom.
No different that the hostage taker's note - "Ten million in small bills, or I'll mail your kid back to you in pieces".
You can't negotiate with fanatics.
Obama should NEVER negotiate with hostage taking black mailers. The only thing they understand is a bullet through the head.
Yup. When you have a guy right here in this forum arguing that teachers making $47K are overpaid because they only work 9 months and their unions get them better benefits than Wal-mart serfs, well... you begin to see the problem.
Hold on a second here.....
In the Damon video, he is standing right next to his mother - who is a teacher. That alone makes his opinion a bit biased, wouldn't you think? :mj07:
Teaching positions are like any other job - they should be supply/demand based. Here in WI, even during good times, there is a high supply of willing and able teachers - many of which can't get jobs because there is more supply than demand. Why is that? Because many teachers see the career as one that is desirable, with benefits better than they can get anywhere else AND summers off. Many women with children love the job - so they can have summers off with their kids. Working conditions and perks play a large role in the desirability of the job.
And pay should be adjusted to normalize supply and demand for positions (in a normal economy - one that we have no hope to get to until Obama is gone).
And I don't know about you guys, but when I was in college many of the kids that became education majors were ones that started in business or computer science, but couldn't hack it due to the competition. Much smarter kids in those fields than the education major had. So, those who couldn't hack the tougher education standards of the sciences moved to education majors. Granted, some of the education majors started in that field, but a vast many of them changed majors when they realized that they could not compete against the tougher competition in the sciences majors (I know 4-5 personally that did EXACTLY that).
There is a long time honored phrase "Those that can't do, teach". For many teachers, that rings true.
I'd love to see a study of college graduates, by major, that shows their average ACT/SAT score. I'd be willing to bet math/computer science grads have a much higher score entering college.
I'm not saying teaching is not important - it clearly is. But I AM saying that teaching does not get the best and brightest students. Nor does it need the best and brightest - they just need to be smarter than the kids they are teaching (in grade school this is easy - well, maybe not for Duff - he'd probably have to teach kindergarten).
And since teachers are not the "best and brightest", why in the world should they get paid like them - especially when the job perks are such that they get so many applicants already?
It's like many of the jobs working in a pro sports team's organization. The perceived perks and status of working for, the Yankees for example, offset the lower salary and make it easy to fill the positions.
There is a signficant portion of the population that could teach 3rd grade. As such, looking at the demand/supply equation, we should only pay as much as the demand curve would dictate. To pay more is just wasting taxpayers scarce resources.
What do we gain by getting the salaries as low as possible? Which is the bottom line here. Whatever happened to getting the best person available to do the job? Many guys would play QB for the Patriots for less than the $20,000,000 Brady is getting. If someone would do the job for less why not let them play?
Yes, a lot of people can teach but at what level?
Steve - I agree to get the best person at the market price. Clearly, a better teacher is worth more and should be able to demand more on the market - all the schools would want that person.
But the problem is, it is just the opposite today. The best teachers are not even employed - since union laws say the highest paid (and the ones retained) are the ones that have been there the longest - with no quality measure.
Unions throw the whole quality measure out the door, due to their arcane methods of treating good and bad teachers the same, along with mandating the pay between good and bad be the same.
Talk to a school district administrator sometime about how difficult it is to get rid of a bad teacher (it is impossible due to the union). And, just as bad, they can't reward financially the good ones.
Privatize schools - so the good ones can charge more and be incented to hire the best teachers. Develop an average stipend for each student to apply towards education. Those that want to pay more to go to the better school can. Those who don't want to pay the extra, and actually get a rebate, can choose a lower performing school.
Today we basically force kids into schools based on where they live - and where the poor live, they have the worst schools typically. Give them a choice of where to go.
Most importantly, get rid of the unions in education - so we have a chance to actually improve our schools. Unions do nothing to improve the education of our kids - they exist solely to rape and pillage our taxpayers.
Without Unions you would be paying teachers min wage and would be getting the worst of the worst. A person is not going to be a good teacher unless they have a passion for it.
- Feb 26, 2001
- 13,593
- 164
- 63
I disagree - the majority of jobs in this country are non union, and the majority of them do not pay minimum wage (except McDonalds but that is not what we are talking about here)
Mags I get a sense of what you are saying, but how much do you think we should pay teachers? I wouldn't do it for any less than what they are making now.
How do YOU KNOW who is good and WHO ISN'T? I have an Idea, I guess I don't understand a lot about the rest of the world because the people I know who are teachers, teach, I don't know of any looking for jobs.
Tell you a story about my buddy and my hero, Capt. Big Nate. He is a very bright man, Capt of a logistic squadron for the Army, he has done 3 tours of duty in Iraq and has been back home now for 18 months. He never knows when he might have to go again. Capt. Big Nate is a reserve now, but I would think that he would have to be a smart, non lazy person to get as far as he has with the Army.
On softball nights I pick him up from work where he and his wife work, which is local elementary school. You see Big Nate is an 4th grade elementary teacher and a damn good one. Big Nate didn't go into teaching cause of pay or benefits, same as the Army. It was his passion.
Regardless of Nate's Army career, should I tell him that he should only be making about 32 grand per year and that he should get a summer job too..:facepalm:
How do YOU KNOW who is good and WHO ISN'T? I have an Idea, I guess I don't understand a lot about the rest of the world because the people I know who are teachers, teach, I don't know of any looking for jobs.
Tell you a story about my buddy and my hero, Capt. Big Nate. He is a very bright man, Capt of a logistic squadron for the Army, he has done 3 tours of duty in Iraq and has been back home now for 18 months. He never knows when he might have to go again. Capt. Big Nate is a reserve now, but I would think that he would have to be a smart, non lazy person to get as far as he has with the Army.
On softball nights I pick him up from work where he and his wife work, which is local elementary school. You see Big Nate is an 4th grade elementary teacher and a damn good one. Big Nate didn't go into teaching cause of pay or benefits, same as the Army. It was his passion.
Regardless of Nate's Army career, should I tell him that he should only be making about 32 grand per year and that he should get a summer job too..:facepalm:
Maggot, some advise for you: it's better to keep your mouth shut and let people think you a fool than to open it and prove you are a fool.
You know nothing about what makes a good teacher. Good teachers have a combination of education, intelligence, personality, motivation, and an inborn, unteachable skill to motivate. Your nonsense that most anyone can be a good teacher is proof of how little you know.
You also know nothing about unionism, nothing about it's history and accomplishments. Good wages are only a small part of employee reforms and fair treatment which unions established.
Anyone who now has a job, union or not, benefits from employer fringe benefits, fair treatment, freedom from discrimination, and safe working conditions because of unions. Union members fought and died for those things, and now ungrateful turds like you take advantage of what they did.
Want to see what freedom from unions brings? Go to China. Then look at the standard of living in any European country where unions have organized.
It's absolutely amazing that you can even draw air and still be so totally ignorant of historical fact.
You couldn't hold a real job if your life depended on it.
You know nothing about what makes a good teacher. Good teachers have a combination of education, intelligence, personality, motivation, and an inborn, unteachable skill to motivate. Your nonsense that most anyone can be a good teacher is proof of how little you know.
You also know nothing about unionism, nothing about it's history and accomplishments. Good wages are only a small part of employee reforms and fair treatment which unions established.
Anyone who now has a job, union or not, benefits from employer fringe benefits, fair treatment, freedom from discrimination, and safe working conditions because of unions. Union members fought and died for those things, and now ungrateful turds like you take advantage of what they did.
Want to see what freedom from unions brings? Go to China. Then look at the standard of living in any European country where unions have organized.
It's absolutely amazing that you can even draw air and still be so totally ignorant of historical fact.
You couldn't hold a real job if your life depended on it.
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Well, to start with, I don't think you should tell big Nate anything...... big guys with military backgrounds are nobody to be messed with.. :nono:
I think it is easy to tell a good teacher from a bad teacher. The teachers within a given school can do so very easily - they know who is good and who is bad. Most principals do too.
Using test scores to rate teachers is nonsense. Every day, in corporate America, hiring/firing/promotion decisions are made based on how good a job a person does. Much of it is "soft" data - but works very well. Yes, your relationship with your boss plays a role in this - as well it should. They hire you and you work for them. If they like you, and the job you are doing, all the better.
The problem is, the unions wouldn't accept the fact that the employer knows who is good and bad. The bottom line is, the union wants to make the hiring/firing decisions solely. And the way they choose to do so is strictly be seniority.
Most of America realizes that is just plain stupid. The unions could do a LOT to obtain some credibility by moving away from their old ways of doing things, and realize that to have a productive company (or school for that matter), tenure is only one of the variables to be looked at when viewing an employee's performance. But, see, then the union would lose total control - and unions are about total control, power, and money.
My sis in law is a public school teacher - and she can easily identify the good and bad teachers. So could my mother, who was also a public school teacher. Why would it be so hard to move to a system that 90% of America uses?
:mj07: :mj07:
Coming from the guy living off the gov't tit.......
You can't make this stuff up.........
How's the flower shop? Have dinner there lately with the elderly lady in the picture? :mj07:
I think I understand, Mags.
You're saying Damon's too close to the teaching profession to have an unbiased opinion.
Sorta like working in the insurance industry prevents you from having an unbiased opinion about healthcare reform.
Thanks for clarifying, Mags. :0008
blah blah blah, unions made this and unions brought us that benefit. blah blah blah.
You know what? we used to make fire by banging two rocks together way back in the day too. Do you see people banging two rocks together over the stove to heat up dinner these days? No. you know why?
Evolution. We've found better ways to do it.
Much like unions. They had their run, they did their good. But if you haven't noticed, the times they are a changing.
I don't see any rock-banging, but I do see companies like Wal*Mart finally starting to treat their employees better than dirt because of the threat of union organization.
And I see unions in Wisconsin and elsewhere keeping the likes of Scott Walker from destroying public education.
Unions are our only defense against returning to the "good old days" of virtual slave labor.
TR understood the Capitalist problem 100 years ago, and it's still true today.
It is essential that there should be organization of labor. This is an era of organization. Capital organizes and therefore labor must organize.
? Theodore Roosevelt, speech at Milwaukee, Wisconsin (October 14, 1912)
Of course you may think TR was some sort of commie-pinko socialist liberal. :facepalm:
Trench - finally, a rational thought from you.
Guess I can't deny that understanding the system better than 99% of the population does shape my vision of right or wrong on that issue.....
