Unions would have stopped Galileo from exploring his own, new ideas. Instead, he would have been encouraged to maintain the status quo, and teach what he was told to teach.
Matt Damon Defends Teachers
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Unions would have stopped Galileo from exploring his own, new ideas. Instead, he would have been encouraged to maintain the status quo, and teach what he was told to teach.
You seem a bit confused. In case you haven't been following the thread, we've been discussing the role of tenure in academic freedom. Since when do unions tell teachers what they may teach?
It isn't just because of the haircut they call marines "jarheads".
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Plenty bouncing around in this thread, much of it arguable. I'll just touch on a few points, as I prepare to enter the profession next year.
? I do have a bit of a problem with the base salary system and no way to make more (or less) money based on performance of most public education contracts. I would be fine making my own way with my past experience outside of the profession, and my performance going through the teaching major.
? There are many reasons why people select the teaching major. Sure, some have trouble with one curriculum area compared to others. Some can't cut it in math, or in science, or in English, or in physical education. If you are going to teach one of those subjects, you need to get a teaching degree, and not a degree in that subject area. I would suggest most people pick the teaching degree because they want to teach and work with young people more than for having summers off. Most teachers work longer hours than other professions for the time they are teaching, and many have to work summer jobs these days. Most have to spend time in the summer preparing for the next school year - lesson planning takes time, a lot of time. You can't just show up when school starts and start teaching. Most people who dismiss teaching as low hours and summers off really don't understand what it takes to teach.
? I'm not familiar with unions having ANY say in what teachers teach in the classroom. Any examples of that? I know there are plenty of conservative legislators that have influenced what is taught in the classroom with the bullshit No Child Left Behind legislation that has produced no improvement in performance and has prevented teacher creativity and cut important other curriculums and extra-curricular activities.
? A true teaching degree from a college that has a good education curriculum takes plenty of intelligence and a well-rounded understanding of what it takes and means to be a teacher. Many people don't care to know and understand what goes into being a good teacher - there is a lot to learn about teaching strategies, classroom management, psychological issues of individuals, and legal issues. Not only that, you have to learn how to implement all of these things in a short time, and immediately come out and be responsible for the education of hundreds of students every day, deal with the parents (good, bad, present or absent), and do it all by yourself from 6 AM to 9 PM many nights. Let alone if you are a coach or involved in other school activities. It takes a special person to accomplish what a teacher does on a daily basis. Many of the people that are being called more intelligent or successful because they don't teach could not handle teaching - nor would they want to. They'd rather be in a quiet office or room, make more money, and not have to deal with people on a daily basis. I could definitely offer the saying, "Many of those who DO, could not teach."
? People are often hired in the private sector not because of what they know or do, they are often hired because of who they know (or do). It's usually not like that in the public school system. You are more likely to be hired based on your ability, performance and interviewing skills than who you know.
? As far as mandating what is taught in history class, history books have misrepresented actual history since they have been printed. Including true history from groups that have been repressed, disregarded and hidden because of a policial agenda can only be considered a positive thing - if you are actually interested in teaching students history. Which, sadly, is not the case for many people - here, and elsewhere.
? I do have a bit of a problem with the base salary system and no way to make more (or less) money based on performance of most public education contracts. I would be fine making my own way with my past experience outside of the profession, and my performance going through the teaching major.
? There are many reasons why people select the teaching major. Sure, some have trouble with one curriculum area compared to others. Some can't cut it in math, or in science, or in English, or in physical education. If you are going to teach one of those subjects, you need to get a teaching degree, and not a degree in that subject area. I would suggest most people pick the teaching degree because they want to teach and work with young people more than for having summers off. Most teachers work longer hours than other professions for the time they are teaching, and many have to work summer jobs these days. Most have to spend time in the summer preparing for the next school year - lesson planning takes time, a lot of time. You can't just show up when school starts and start teaching. Most people who dismiss teaching as low hours and summers off really don't understand what it takes to teach.
? I'm not familiar with unions having ANY say in what teachers teach in the classroom. Any examples of that? I know there are plenty of conservative legislators that have influenced what is taught in the classroom with the bullshit No Child Left Behind legislation that has produced no improvement in performance and has prevented teacher creativity and cut important other curriculums and extra-curricular activities.
? A true teaching degree from a college that has a good education curriculum takes plenty of intelligence and a well-rounded understanding of what it takes and means to be a teacher. Many people don't care to know and understand what goes into being a good teacher - there is a lot to learn about teaching strategies, classroom management, psychological issues of individuals, and legal issues. Not only that, you have to learn how to implement all of these things in a short time, and immediately come out and be responsible for the education of hundreds of students every day, deal with the parents (good, bad, present or absent), and do it all by yourself from 6 AM to 9 PM many nights. Let alone if you are a coach or involved in other school activities. It takes a special person to accomplish what a teacher does on a daily basis. Many of the people that are being called more intelligent or successful because they don't teach could not handle teaching - nor would they want to. They'd rather be in a quiet office or room, make more money, and not have to deal with people on a daily basis. I could definitely offer the saying, "Many of those who DO, could not teach."
? People are often hired in the private sector not because of what they know or do, they are often hired because of who they know (or do). It's usually not like that in the public school system. You are more likely to be hired based on your ability, performance and interviewing skills than who you know.
? As far as mandating what is taught in history class, history books have misrepresented actual history since they have been printed. Including true history from groups that have been repressed, disregarded and hidden because of a policial agenda can only be considered a positive thing - if you are actually interested in teaching students history. Which, sadly, is not the case for many people - here, and elsewhere.
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I sure hope Chadman signed up for a GHETTO school, his compassion would be really APPRECIATED, he could give us DAILY updates on how he's made a difference.
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I have no doubt that Chadman has, and will continue to make a difference.
You, however, could fall into a black hole tomorrow, and no one would care.
Chad, a very good and very well thought out response, as always. I have no doubt that you are one of the teachers who will make a difference in people's lives.
Sadly, there probably isn't enough of teachers such as yourself (well, you are soon to be one that is). Reading some of this has opened my eyes to a few issues I hadn't thought of - from a teacher's perspective. For that I thank you. Most of the liberal insight is filled with hate and name calling, so there is nothing to be learned from that. Your response was certainly worthy of being read, and being learned from.
I do disagree on private versus public hiring practices. It is not so much who you know, it is your resume and work experience (and college background if you are looking for your first job). I doubt it is much different in either sector to find your first job. Of course, the big difference is, in the public sector, once you have that job, you are pretty much guaranteed that job for life no matter what you do. That is a big advantage.
Good luck in your new career!
Sorry, I just think he's going to LILLY WHITE School.
Pity Really
JMO
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First, how would you know? And second, what difference does it make? :shrug:
Seems like the race card's your only play anymore, Skulnik.
Pick your POISON.
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Thanks for reminding me that expecting you to stay on topic or answer a question is a waste of time, Skul.
I guess I misread the posts on page 1 of this thread discussing unions, how it relates to teaching, and how it relates to tenure, and what the impact of supply & demand in the education industry would be without unions.
again, my bad for reading posts about unions and continuing talking about. My bad for reading and understanding what i read.
I have to agree with Mags on the whole history bit.
United we stand, divided we fall?
We have more racial, social, political, religious, etc divisions in this country than ever before. Everyone used to want to be an American. Now, there are all these sub-divisions of American.
It is crazy.
From Morgan Freeman:
He (Freeman) says he finds Black History Month "ridiculous."
"You're going to relegate my history to a month?" asks Freeman. "I don't want a Black History Month. Black history is American history," he says, noting that there are no white or Jewish history months.
How can we get rid of racism?
"Stop talking about it. I'm going to stop calling you a white man," Freeman says to Wallace. "And I'm going to ask you to stop calling me a black man. I know you as Mike Wallace. You know me as Morgan Freeman. You wouldn't say, 'Well, I know this white guy named Mike Wallace.' You know what I'm sayin'?"
Refreshing point of view I wish more would take.
You can You-tube it and see the actual interview
United we stand, divided we fall?
We have more racial, social, political, religious, etc divisions in this country than ever before. Everyone used to want to be an American. Now, there are all these sub-divisions of American.
It is crazy.
From Morgan Freeman:
He (Freeman) says he finds Black History Month "ridiculous."
"You're going to relegate my history to a month?" asks Freeman. "I don't want a Black History Month. Black history is American history," he says, noting that there are no white or Jewish history months.
How can we get rid of racism?
"Stop talking about it. I'm going to stop calling you a white man," Freeman says to Wallace. "And I'm going to ask you to stop calling me a black man. I know you as Mike Wallace. You know me as Morgan Freeman. You wouldn't say, 'Well, I know this white guy named Mike Wallace.' You know what I'm sayin'?"
Refreshing point of view I wish more would take.
You can You-tube it and see the actual interview
