More history for Mr. Kosar

[dr. freeze]

1. The official title of the Nazi Party was "The National Socialist Workers Party of Germany"

2. Hitler advocated the nationalization of education, health care, transportation, national resources, manufacturing, distribution and law enforcement.

3. Hitler came to power by turning the working class, unemployed, and academic elite against the conservative republic.

4. Being a Nazi was "politically correct". They called themselves "The Children of the New Age of World Order" and looked down their noses at everyone else. As Hitler acquired more power, he referred to his critics as "The Dark Forces of Anarchy and Hatred". Anyone who questioned Nazi high-handedness in the German press was branded a "Conservative Reactionary".

5. Hitler demanded that all good people register their guns so that they wouldn't fall into the hands of "terrorists and madmen".Right-wing fanatics of the "Old Order" who protested firearms registration were arrested by the S.S. and put in jail for "fomenting hatred against the Government of the German people".

6. When the Policia Bewakken, or local police, refused to take away guns from townsfolk, they themselves were disarmed and dragged out into the street and shot to death by the S.A. and the S.S. Those were Nazi versions of the B.A.T.F. and the F.B.I. When several local ministers spoke out against these atrocities, they were imprisoned and never seen again.

7. Public schools rewrote history and Hitler youth groups taught the children to report their parents to their teachers for anti-Nazi remarks. Such parents disappeared. Pagan animism became the state religion of the Third Reich and Christians were widely condemned as "right wing fanatics".

 

[kosar]

Freeze,

Don't confuse what we currently consider 'conservatism' in our own country with the purest, worst form. Just because Hitler fell into that 'worst' category of conservatism doesn't mean that anybody is honestly comparing modern Republicans to the Nazi party. It's ok to say that Hitler was far, far to the right. That doesn't mean that you're a Nazi. Ok?


"Many conservatives accuse Hitler of being a leftist, on the grounds that his party was named "National Socialist." But socialism requires worker ownership and control of the means of production. In Nazi Germany, private capitalist individuals owned the means of production, and they in turn were frequently controlled by the Nazi party and state. True socialism does not advocate such economic dictatorship -- it can only be democratic.

Hitler's other political beliefs place him almost always on the far right. He advocated racism over racial tolerance, eugenics over freedom of reproduction, merit over equality, competition over cooperation, power politics and militarism over pacifism, dictatorship over democracy, capitalism over Marxism, realism over idealism, nationalism over internationalism, exclusiveness over inclusiveness, common sense over theory or science, pragmatism over principle, and even held friendly relations with the Church, even though he was an atheist. "

 

[dr. freeze]

lmao thats garbage

friendly relations with the church?

he persecuted and killed Christians!!!

capitalism? the govermnet owned and ran all commerce!

nationalism over internationalism? he proclaimed over and over again the new world order!!

common sense over theory? give me an example of this garbage

socialism requires worker owndership? lmao....try government ownership

 

[dr. freeze]

"True socialism does not advocate such ecomoic dictatoriship -- it can only be democratic"

i am definitely confused at your attempt to confuse a form of government elected by the people and commerce

can you explain further?

or is this just some jibberish that you found somewhere?

 

[dr. freeze]

"He advocated racism over racial tolerance"

Isn't the left the side that constantly is categorizing people according to their race?

 

[kosar]

Hitler quotes. And yes, the New World Order was basically that of one country. I would consider that nationalism.



Nationalism over internationalism.


"The nationalization of our masses will succeed only when? their international poisoners are exterminated."

"The severest obstacle to the present-day worker's approach to the national community lies not in the defense of his class interests, but in his international leadership and attitude which are hostile to the people and the fatherland."

"Thus, the reservoir from which the young [Nazi] movement must gather its supporters will primarily be the masses of our workers. Its work will be to tear these away from the international delusion? and lead them to the national community?"

 

[kosar]

"He advocated racism over racial tolerance"

Isn't the left the side that constantly is categorizing people according to their race?

Huh?

Like it or not, racism and intolerance is associated with far right wingers. I think Hitler probably qualified as a racist.

 

[dr. freeze]

were the communists not nationalists?

are the chinese not nationalists?

how does nationalism pertain to ideology as both conservatives of this country and communists of the Soviet Union nationalists?

 

[kosar]

"Hitler's views on religion were complex. Although ostensibly an atheist, he considered himself a cultural Catholic, and frequently evoked God, the Creator and Providence in his writings. Throughout his life he would remain an envious admirer of the Christian Church and its power over the masses.
Here is but one example:


"We can learn by the example of the Catholic Church. Though its doctrinal edifice? comes into collision with exact science and research, it is none the less unwilling to sacrifice so much as one little syllable of its dogmas. It has recognized quite correctly that its power of resistance does not lie in its lesser or greater adaptation to the scientific findings of the moment, which in reality are always fluctuating, but rather in rigidly holding to dogmas once established, for it is only such dogmas which lend to the whole body the character of faith. And so it stands today more firmly than ever."


Hitler also saw a useful purpose for the Church:

"The great masses of people do not consist of philosophers; precisely for the masses, [religious] faith is often the sole foundation of a moral attitude? For the political man, the value of a religion must be estimated less by its deficiencies than by the virtue of a visibly better substitute. As long as this appears to be lacking, what is present can be demolished only by fools or criminals."


Hitler thus advocated freedom of religious belief. Although he would later press churches into the service of Nazism, often at the point of a gun, Hitler did not attempt to impose a state religion or mandate the basic philosophical content of German religions. As long as they did not interfere with his program, he allowed them to continue fuctioning. And this policy was foreshadowed in his writings:


"For the political leader the religious doctrines and institutions of his people must always remain inviolable; or else he has no right to be in politics?"

"Political parties have nothing to do with religious problems, as long as these are not alien to the nation, undermining the morals and ethics of the race; just as religion cannot be amalgamated with the scheming of political parties."

"Worst of all, however, is the devastation wrought by the misuse of religious conviction for political ends."

"Therefore, let every man be active, each in his own denomination if you please, and let every man take it as his first and most sacred duty to oppose anyone who in his activity by word or deed steps outside the confines of his religious community and tries to butt into the other."
Hitler was raised a Catholic, even going to school for two years at the monastery at Lambauch, Austria. As late as 24 he still called himself a Catholic, but somewhere along the way he became an atheist. It is highly doubtful that this was an intellectual decision, as a reading of his disordered thoughts in Mein Kampf will attest. The decision was most likely a pragmatic one, based on power and personal ambition.

 

[dr. freeze]

whoah whoah whoah

racism is associated wtih right wingers.

show me some evidence which supports this

 

[kosar]

were the communists not nationalists?

are the chinese not nationalists?

how does nationalism pertain to ideology as both conservatives of this country and communists of the Soviet Union nationalists?

You seem to job back and forth between political ideology and economic systems as if they're interchangeable.

Extreme nationalism(there are degrees-I mean, you can't paint 'our' conservatives and the former USSR with the same broad strokes) and fascism often go hand in hand, and definitely in the case of Nazi Germany.

 

[dr. freeze]

Yao Ming cant even make the reaches which the above author makes

unfortunately i dont have the time to refute them all

 

[kosar]

whoah whoah whoah

racism is associated wtih right wingers.

show me some evidence which supports this

Are you kidding?

Once again, it's ok man. Nobody is calling you a racist, or even a majority of a specific party here in the US. You're reducing everything back to our current, modern day political climate while i'm trying to discuss Nazi Germany.

Evidence? How about Hitler for starters?

 

[dr. freeze]

i am saying hitler was a left winger

so saying hitler is a racist supports my point

i see nothing to do wtih racism as far as conservative ideology

conservative government (less government intrusiveness)
conservative economics (less government intrusiveness)
conservative values (traditional values based on natural law, right to life and liberty)

i dont see racism as any part of that

the left is the side that has to have quotas, affirmative action, etc. etc.

taking into account someone's race

as if someone who is 75% english and 25% african american needs special help when compared to someone who is 50% african, 25%german and 25% norwegian

there is no rationale for this nonsense and the only thing i can see behind the left's reasoning is to promote racism and broaden racial and cultural divides with this categorical BS

 

[kosar]

Freeze,

We're going in circles. You're talking about attributes/tenets generally applied to the United States political spectrums circa 2005. These things evolve/devolve/whatever over the course of 60 years.

That said, Hitler was far right by any standards, in any era.

I guess I should start a thread espousing how Marx was far right.

As far as the racist thing goes, of course it isn't a part of the conservative ideology. Also, i'm not talking about policy or affirmative action or quotas or anything 'official' like that, necessarily. I'm talking about what i've observed in my 35 years on the planet.

Forget about government programs and all that other crap, how about just human decency and some modicum of understanding? I don't mean that towards you necessarily, but in general.

 

[smurphy]

The "Hitler is a Liberal" nonsense is lowering the IQ of this board. ....but then again NOBODY is defining what a Liberal is no matter many times I ask, so maybe people like Freez are trying to paint a definition of Liberal as being Hitler.

So Hitler didn't believe in traditional Aryan family values? Anti-gay, etc? You can pick apart any of his strange ideologies and find a comparison to what people believe today. He was anti-gay, anti-gun, pro-government,pro-family, racist, murderer, etc etc. OK - sure, that means he's a Liberal I guess.

The same Left in the US that you now call racists, were the ones breaking down segregation laws 40 years ago.

There's so much bizarre rationalization your trying to make, Freeze. Can we just stick to logical arguments?

 

[Nick Douglas]

Hitler was a left winger? Oh my God, I've heard it all. Please, I beg you guys not to argue with him. If he really believes that, no post on an internet message board is going to change his mind.

 

[kosar]

I think Freeze really believes it, and you're right. Total waste of time.

 

[MrChristo]

1. The official title of the Nazi Party was "The National Socialist Workers Party of Germany"

The official title of North Korea is the, "Democratic Peoples Republic of Korea".

2. Hitler advocated the nationalization of education, health care, transportation, national resources, manufacturing, distribution and law enforcement.

And in the very next post you tell us that this isn't nationalism?

3. Hitler came to power by turning the working class, unemployed, and academic elite against the conservative republic.

No-one is suggesting he wasn't smart!...Deluded, evil, yes, of course, but he knew how to work/manipulate a crowd. He did what he had to to get into power, then he simply did what he wanted.
Are you suggesting that modern day politicians don't manipulate people?
Bush "putting God back in the White House" isn't manipulating conservative Americans?

5. Hitler demanded that all good people register their guns so that they wouldn't fall into the hands of "terrorists and madmen".Right-wing fanatics of the "Old Order" who protested firearms registration were arrested by the S.S. and put in jail for "fomenting hatred against the Government of the German people".

We have pretty tight gun controls here in Australia. All guns must be registered and kept securely. High powered and semi-automatics are strictly for ligitimate recreational use only (ie. Registered hunting and target shooting clubs), and locked away at all times.
Who initiated this gun control? Our current Prime Minister, one of the most conservative men in the country, close friend and ally of Mr. George Bush.
I think we can be fairly confident that the government and ASIO aren't going to round us all up.


7. Public schools rewrote history and Hitler youth groups taught the children to report their parents to their teachers for anti-Nazi remarks. Such parents disappeared. Pagan animism became the state religion of the Third Reich and Christians were widely condemned as "right wing fanatics".

- Some schools in the US don't teach Darwinism, or evolution because we were all placed here by God.
- The Catholic Church is currently re-writing their own history so that is doesn't include the crusades, because looking back now, running around killing people was hardly very Christian of them, was it.

6. When the Policia Bewakken, or local police, refused to take away guns from townsfolk, they themselves were disarmed and dragged out into the street and shot to death by the S.A. and the S.S. Those were Nazi versions of the B.A.T.F. and the F.B.I. When several local ministers spoke out against these atrocities, they were imprisoned and never seen again.

Yeah, so it was a police state....Liberal, left wing?...Sounds a lot more like DTB's 'utopian island' to me

 

[redsfann]

And I thought that Freeze couldn't get any loonier than he already was....

I guess I was wrong. I hold two degrees in Political Science from the University of Iowa(a B.S. and an M.S.), and at NO time during my 6 years of schooling at the collegate level were there ever ANY attempts by any professors of mine, either liberal or conservative to try and label Hitler a left-winger.
I guess that means Mao, Lenin/Stalin and Pol Pot were right-wingers then.



That Freeze would argue this is beyond my comprehension. This has got to go down as one of the most uninformed, ignorant and stupid posts that I have read here at Jack's.

Freeze, you are losing it my friend. I'm guessing that your month away from Madjack's had to do with your in-patient stay at the local crazy farm rather than a trip around the country.....