My Bizarre Dog Ownership Battle

bleedingpurple

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Welp another "World Turns" event in my neighborhood. I live in a small town that is located in the country, I have 1.5 acres. Well my GF has got me in the middle of another mess. She is or was friends with people who lived in tiny apartment complex about 5 blocks away. These people have various animals at their house and Know we are suckers for animals. Well in September right before my dog Rocco was murdered these people left town for a week and we brought over their TWO Border Collies and Rabbit since I have a shed with hay and such and a big fenced-in area. Well they came back and took the one Border Collie they were attached too and asked if we would keep the rabbit and other Border Collie because we have the room. And this was on Sept 21. I was skeptical of keeping another dog because we had 3 at the time but we said sure. I bought the rabbit a hutch we keep inside during the winter and everything was going great. The Collie is named Amy and has bonded well. Those who have me on FB may have seen the video of us using the blower on the deck and she chases the snow. Well to get to the point these people contacted my GF via FB messenger stating that they want the dog back. I mean 6 months have passed and these people now want their dog back. We had messaged them several months ago asking for ownership in writing twice, Being ignored both times. Now they want the dog back and GF told them no, you gave her to us and Amy has bonded and is happy. I contacted my attorney and he told me that possession is 9/10 of the law and that we should keep the dog because we have photos and videos of the dog and copies of ignored message etc. Well the people sent us a message earlier today threatening to bring the sheriff to get the dog and I contacted my attorney and he said tell them "to let them come."

Well, it didn't go as well as planned. The deputy asked if we had proof that the dog was ours and I said well it's been here for 6 months? and my GF showed them the messages that were ignored. The deputy called his superior and they both claim that we have no proof that the dog is ours. I get on the phone with the attorney quickly and he said the deputy must be a "yahoo." But what do you believe? So here were our options given by the deputy. 1. We can arrange to give the dog back. (Attorney said no) 2. We keep the dog and he would have to start the paperwork to charge my GF with Dognapping but we would still keep the dog until it went to court 3. arrange to purchase the dog, Which I did not want to do because if I offered to buy the dog it would be like admitting that the dog wasn't mine. So the deputy tried to contact the guy who reported us as criminals many times through the evening and he didn't answer. The deputy called and was annoyed by the guy but said if the guy continued to push this tomorrow that he would be out here starting this over again.

What a bunch of shit? If the dog was theirs, Why didn't they come and see it past 6 months? Why aren't there messages before asking for the dog back? Why have they not provided any assistance caring for the dog in 6 months? And then to top it off wanting to charge my GF with DogKnapping? this just isn't right and everything my attorney says the cops have refuted. My attorney says possession is 9/10 of the law and they say it doesn't work in this case and they "Don't care if we had the dog for 3 years, there is no evidence they gave the dog to you." Isn't the fact that we have had the dog for 6 months without any contact or inquiries enough evidence? My attorney says dog napping in the case is BS and they say it can be a felony. This is a big lesson and I had an eerie feeling not having anything in writing could come back to bite us, No pun intended.

This will be totally unjust if we have to give the dog back. My GF is applying for the post office and doesn't need anything on her record.
 

kickserv

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kickserv response.

1. Fuck them.

2. Don't ever give that dog to those scumbags.
 

MadJack

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It doesn't seem right. I think you should listen to your lawyer. I would! They'll never in a million years get you or GF for dognapping. These cops are full of shit. Think about it. They brought the dog to YOU and left it there. They only took one back. Fuck them. Oral agreements are valid as well. They won't even be able to get a lawyer to take their case and the prosecutor wouldn't want the case either. If it even came down to that.
 

WhatsHisNuts

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Do they have proof that the dog is theirs?

Did you apply for a dog license or anything for Amy for 2022? Did you take her to the vet or get one of those Home Away? If you have any of that, it's a slam dunk for you. If not, I don't know how you win this.

Only other thing I can think of is agreeing to release the dog once they pay the boarding fee of $200 a month (or whatever you want to claim it was). This would just be a way to make it painful for them.
 

Wineguy

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Do they have proof that the dog is theirs?

Did you apply for a dog license or anything for Amy for 2022? Did you take her to the vet or get one of those Home Away? If you have any of that, it's a slam dunk for you. If not, I don't know how you win this.

Only other thing I can think of is agreeing to release the dog once they pay the boarding fee of $200 a month (or whatever you want to claim it was). This would just be a way to make it painful for them.

Excellent ideas and advice. Do this. :toast:
 

Cricket

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Like the boarding fee idea.Don't forget cost of any meds. Please let us know what happens. Good luck to you and Amy.
 

Snafu

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Do they have proof that the dog is theirs?

Only other thing I can think of is agreeing to release the dog once they pay the boarding fee of $200 a month (or whatever you want to claim it was). This would just be a way to make it painful for them.

This is what i was thinking too, add all expenses like vet and equipment needed for dogs every day living + toys etc you have bought.

edit: write those expenses, vet visits etc down in a chronological order as a diary

I hope you can keep Amy :toast:
 
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DOGS THAT BARK

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Do they have proof that the dog is theirs?

Did you apply for a dog license or anything for Amy for 2022? Did you take her to the vet or get one of those Home Away? If you have any of that, it's a slam dunk for you. If not, I don't know how you win this.

Only other thing I can think of is agreeing to release the dog once they pay the boarding fee of $200 a month (or whatever you want to claim it was). This would just be a way to make it painful for them.


Gary?.what an exceptional angle on boarding fee?would assume neighbors got offer to sell dog?hence their bs.
Great advice!?and don,t forget the rabbit.
 

vaquerizo

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Not sure how anyone can justify giving Amy back to someone who abandoned her.

Good Luck!!!
 

Scrapman

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fucking A boarding fee and feeding and everything else would stop them in thier tracks

Dog Boarding Cost

The average cost charged by dog boarding kennels is $30 to $50 per night with most pet owners spending $40. Weekly boarding rates start at $150 while monthly prices cost $500 on average. Overall, finding the right dog boarding option for your dog will depend mainly on what?s available in your area and your personal preferences.


minmum fee 6 months $3000 :0008
 

lostinamerica

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Briefly . . .

1. Legal ownership of the dog is a question of fact. You have set out a whole chronology of evidentiary facts and a course of dealing which are relevant to establish objective and subjective intent of the parties, and the ultimate fact of ownership.

2. There is plenty of evidence of your ownership arising at some reasonable point in time, but the cop is correct that there is no irrefutable proof of ownership vis-a-vis the claims of the other party, such as a bill of sale, or even testimony from disinterested witnesses as to the relevant statements and conduct of the other party.

3. Your present possession of the dog is very beneficial going forward, as I doubt whether under Minnesota law the police may confiscate any property in the disputed possession of one party without first taking the step of bringing a criminal charge that your possession is in violation of some criminal law (i.e., theft). Your possession also makes it very difficult for the other party to take possession without committing some breach of the peace to do so (i.e., trespass, burglary, etc.). Either party can invoke a civil court to resolve the matter, but since you are currently in possession, I think it is sufficient for you to send a written communication to them that you consider the matter over, or propose some other basis for a resolution, and leave it to them to respond.

4. In a factual dispute of this nature, no matter how strong your case, there is always a risk that litigation results in a judge making a bad decision based on the limited acrimonious testimony and evidentiary intake a judge will typically allow during a hearing of an hour or less.

5. Based on the facts you presented, I don?t believe the other party has any reasonable justification for ignoring your multiple attempts to clarify and resolve the matter, and IMO they abandoned ownership to you, especially in the case of an animal that requires daily care.

GL
 

Scrapman

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WAIT a fukin min didnt they also give you Rabbit to care for ???? Charge them for borading and care n feed for the Rabbit too


we looking at $4000

:00hour
 

bleedingpurple

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My Bizarre Dog Ownership Battle

Ok was busy all day yesterday but I called the deputy who was over and he said the guy who was wanting dog back has not contacted him anymore and said that we should probably take my attorney?s advice. Well no shit!! He also said that They really have never had a case like this and we talked it over with other deputies (must have Been a very slow night) and they said they would not charge us with dognaoping because the guy admitted that we didn?t take the dog from him in the first place and upon further review it would seem as though asshat ABANDONED the dog. Basically what my attorney was telling me all along. The deputy also said that if he calls again he will tell him to take my GF to civil court. It will be noted that the guy did not return their calls and so forth. He thinks we have a strong case to keep the dog and doubts the guy will pursue this further. At the end the deputy pretty much admitted that they didn?t know wtf they were talking about..

Deputy takes call,comes to my property thinking he knows wtf he is talking about but doesn?t-and thought he would come down here in uniform and we would turn over the dog without a fight and then gets big mad we don?t do as he says and threatens GF with dogknapping charge. Then changes his tune when he talks to people who actually know what they are talking about..

As far as vet care we have not taken her to vet because she?s was up to date on her shots well according to the guy. My min pin is due for vet in May and was bringing her then, but now she will go next week. I should have brought her in sooner but didn?t expect this.
 

Old School

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MadJack

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Briefly . . .

1. Legal ownership of the dog is a question of fact. You have set out a whole chronology of evidentiary facts and a course of dealing which are relevant to establish objective and subjective intent of the parties, and the ultimate fact of ownership.

2. There is plenty of evidence of your ownership arising at some reasonable point in time, but the cop is correct that there is no irrefutable proof of ownership vis-a-vis the claims of the other party, such as a bill of sale, or even testimony from disinterested witnesses as to the relevant statements and conduct of the other party.

3. Your present possession of the dog is very beneficial going forward, as I doubt whether under Minnesota law the police may confiscate any property in the disputed possession of one party without first taking the step of bringing a criminal charge that your possession is in violation of some criminal law (i.e., theft). Your possession also makes it very difficult for the other party to take possession without committing some breach of the peace to do so (i.e., trespass, burglary, etc.). Either party can invoke a civil court to resolve the matter, but since you are currently in possession, I think it is sufficient for you to send a written communication to them that you consider the matter over, or propose some other basis for a resolution, and leave it to them to respond.

4. In a factual dispute of this nature, no matter how strong your case, there is always a risk that litigation results in a judge making a bad decision based on the limited acrimonious testimony and evidentiary intake a judge will typically allow during a hearing of an hour or less.

5. Based on the facts you presented, I don?t believe the other party has any reasonable justification for ignoring your multiple attempts to clarify and resolve the matter, and IMO they abandoned ownership to you, especially in the case of an animal that requires daily care.

GL

I suspect, based on nothing, that the people wanting their dog back don't really have the money for a lawsuit nor the motivation to pay a lawyer go to court if they were involved in a lawsuit.

Would a lawyer, such as yourself, take the case for BP if he were to file a lawsuit against the previous owner? Suing the previous owner for boarding costs over the time Amy spent with BP? A jury trail as well, keeping in mind that they would settle instead of going to court to make that lawsuit go away. How much would something like that cost BP to file the lawsuit (it's just a letter, right?). Serve depositions and the whole 9 yards. Ridiculous questions and pages of questions in the depositions. Drive them out of their mind. AND, even if they did try to go to court facing that lawsuit, what would a lawyer estimate it would cost them to fight BP? I imagine it would cost them a shitload of money for a jury trial.
 

MadJack

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I suspect, based on nothing, that the people wanting their dog back don't really have the money for a lawsuit nor the motivation to pay a lawyer go to court if they were involved in a lawsuit.

Would a lawyer, such as yourself, take the case for BP if he were to file a lawsuit against the previous owner? Suing the previous owner for boarding costs over the time Amy spent with BP? A jury trail as well, keeping in mind that they would settle instead of going to court to make that lawsuit go away. How much would something like that cost BP to file the lawsuit (it's just a letter, right?). Serve depositions and the whole 9 yards. Ridiculous questions and pages of questions in the depositions. Drive them out of their mind. AND, even if they did try to go to court facing that lawsuit, what would a lawyer estimate it would cost them to fight BP? I imagine it would cost them a shitload of money for a jury trial.

PLUS, boarding costs for the other dog and the rabbit.
 

kickserv

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I suspect, based on nothing, that the people wanting their dog back don't really have the money for a lawsuit nor the motivation to pay a lawyer go to court if they were involved in a lawsuit.


That, and just complete assholes for "giving a dog away", then 6 months later wanting the dog back. Some people should never own a dog, these people qualify, fuck them.
 

kickserv

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bleedingpurple.......that doggie ain't going anywhere, give that doggy a big belly rub and give em a treat, all will be fine, that doggy is staying with you forever.

:mj23:

And good on ya for saving that doggy from those scumbags, well done:clap:
 

bleedingpurple

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bleedingpurple.......that doggie ain't going anywhere, give that doggy a big belly rub and give em a treat, all will be fine, that doggy is staying with you forever.

:mj23:

And good on ya for saving that doggy from those scumbags, well done:clap:

My GF and I are suckers for all kinds of animals. I just bought the house about a year and a half ago. We got a huge fence up before snow and I wake up and her mother is throwing a pot belly pig in my fence. The fence is around and old garage that was built and just used for storage. Well we put straw and heat lamp and everything a pig would want. Everything was fine until the kid forgot to shut the gate and we had a pig wandering around so of course the village got notified we had it and they said we had to get rid of it. I talked to the head of the village several times and we still had it 6 months after they were after us. He was like, "why do you still have it." I'm like I have called hobby farms and other farms and still can't find someone suitable to take it. He was like, "I know a guy who has several." "I'll call him" So my next question was, "Why the fuck didn't you tell me this 6 months ago?" I left out fuck but trying to find a good home for the pig was stressful. Some people wanted to eat it and my GF was attached to it and it was IMPERATIVE to both of us that she got a great home. Long story short the guy lives literally 2 miles from me and she was rehomed to this guy and living with other pigs and is happy. Would have been really easy on me to have had this done long before. I think the fact that we take in animals and treat them well is really good for her son. I just wish they communicate with me before these animals show up. pigs, Cats and Rabbits. The town I live in is 500 people surrounded by woods and lakes. Superior WI is the closest city and they have 28 K people and can have pigs but we can't lol.
 
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