My challenge to Kosar

[Never Caught Up]

Kosar.

I issued a "Yes" or "No" challenge. Either accept it or don't. You post up funds for my challenge and then I will publicly either accept or reject yours.

NCU



[This message has been edited by Never Caught Up (edited 10-16-2001).]

 

[scrubbo]

If Kosar and NCU make this bet someone needs to post weekly action on the participants.

It'll be like a weekly Cock fight.

Funny stuff - Casper

 

[Neemer]

Pretty good there Kosar. I almost missed you turning the table on a challenge that was given to you! Instead of accepting the challenge, you then in turn flip the situation and set a challenge of your own. Not only did you change the parameters of the contest, but you try to convince everyone that you actually HAVE $10,000, thus implying that NCU's challenge is too cheap for a highroller like yourself. So instead of you looking like the chicken chit of the group, you up the ante and try to call NCU's bluff.

Since both of you have a problem with the particular stipulations of the contest, how about compromising to satisfy the challenge. I'll even set it up for you fellas.......

NCU agrees to allow Totals as a method of selection, while you agree to the $5,000 figure. Sounds fair to me!!

And if ya don't mind, I'd sure like to get the skinny on NOlan Dalla stiffing you on a wager....

 

[Never Caught Up]

Kosar issued a challenge involving totals and I may very well accept that challenge for $10,000, but first he has the obligation of accepting mine for $5,000. Once the money is posted up and everything is finalized on my challenge then I will publicly accept or reject his challenge.

This is not about compromise. I have issued my challenge. Once accepted and tendered I will determine what I want to do on his. I could very well reject it if I did not feel I had an advantage. I could also accept it if I felt I like I did. Unless Kosar accepts my challange he will never know what I will do.

Keep first things first. The challenge is very clear. Yes or No, Kosar. Then wonder what I will do about your challenge.



[This message has been edited by Never Caught Up (edited 10-16-2001).]

 

[dr. freeze]

all I know: No one has accepted my challenge!

for ten bucks.....i guess no one wants to give it away!!!

 

[Neemer]

The challenge is very clear. Yes or No, Kosar.

and it's also clear he will not accept the terms of the challenge. I feel that if either one of you REALLy want this to happen, then you both will give and take a little something to make it happen. Perhaps the disagreement is really what both of you want. Each person claiming victory b/c of a couple of silly stipulations....You fellas need to work this out, so I can get some side action going...

 

[Never Caught Up]

Neemer, I understand what you are saying, but I issueud this challenge exactly the way I did because I am focued on one thing each week . . . doing the best I can in the Ace's Gold contest.

This week I went 2 - 3 and I am not happy with myself, but I will continue to try to win. My focus will remain on that contest and Kosar will not detract me away from it.

The challange is clear. Once accepted I will think about his challenge involving totals. Until then, it is a no issue.

Kosar has two choices. Yes or No. Anything else is a cop out and believe it or not . . . I want this challenge to be accepted.

$5000
Ace's Gold Contest Rules and Lines
Contest ends with regular season.
Entire sum to be presented to winner at Mad Jack Superbowl Party.
That's the challenge.

Yes or no, Kosar?

[This message has been edited by Never Caught Up (edited 10-16-2001).]

 

[UMRebel]

I agree with Neemer....You guys need to give and take a little. NCU, you can't just want everything your way and expect someone to accept it towards your terms! Why can't he bet totals? You afraid he's going to beat you in totals to your sides? I know you set a challenge, but that's kinda unfair don't you think? And you said it's for the money! Why not accept it for $10,000 grand too. You win more now! Don't get me wrong NCU, I'm not on Kosar's side! I just want to have a voice of reason through all this. And with Kosar raising the ante, I think he just want to test you with the forum as to who have more balls to put up more money! But I think $5,000 is reasonable enough Kosar! Find some resolution to all this or else stop this nonsense. We are not in grade school anymore guys!

 

[Never Caught Up]

OK. I will give, but first everyone needs to understand this is not about handicapping. This is about gambling. There is no such thing as fair.

$10,000 (Post up)

Totals- No!

What do you want to hear me say. I don't have an advantage over Kosar or anyone else on totals. I seldom handicap totals. This isn't about equality or being fair. I want his money and I made the challenge.

$10,000 posted up.
Aces Gold Contest Line and Rules

Come on Kosar.

Let's do it!

Addendum: I suggest we make it $9,999. This is the world wide web and I feel certain a ten thousand dollar win by either of us is going to get recorded by authorities. Let's not invite trouble.

[This message has been edited by Never Caught Up (edited 10-16-2001).]

 

[Randercity]

Wow... how did I miss this??

NCU, I've told you many times that I appreciate your contributions, and feel you are an important member here. KOSAR on the other hand has not been a favorite of mine, and like you, he seemed to me to always be stirring up trouble, and not contributing. I see now that he is honoring us with his picks, and I commend him for that.

This challenge thing seems like a no-go. I hope I'm wrong, but I don't think it'll happen, and I don't blame KOSAR if he turns it down. It won't make him a chicken or less of a man in my eyes, but I just don't think he's gonna do it. As NEEMER pointed out, his upping the ante seemed to be more of a ploy than anything.

To those who are suggesting NCU include totals, I think you are off base. Many contests include sides only, so his request is not original or out of line. We have the ACES GOLD contest going on here at MJ's and it would serve as a very neutral and NON controversial line to go by, and we're all involved in that one WITHOUT the totals.
Besides, when a man issues a challenge, it should be accepted or turned down. That's all NCU is asking for... once KOSAR says no, he may then counter with his challenge to be accepted or not. When both are turned down, well, we'll be back to square one and each will still not like the other...

 

[yyz]

I think the two of you have some nerve getting Jack, and his forum, involved in something like this. If you guys have some deal with Jack that the rest of us don't know about, that's one thing. But, I doubt that to be the case.

Nobody asked, but here is what I take out of this:

1. Challenge made (with absurd amount,so as to not be accepted)

2. Counter challenge made (with more ludicrous monitary total, so as to get challenger to back down)

3. Stalemate (obligitory chest thumping by both would be combatants)

As of now, one or both of you faces only the humiliation of looking silly. Take the minor loss, and avoid doing something absolutely dumb......what would this prove anyway? Neither of you will get anywhere.

Now, let's get back to making fun of the Dallas/Washington game.

 

[twofingers]

One of the great pissing contests of all time

 

[Junior44]

Let me jump in here for a bit....

First of all NCU, your arguement that totals not be included in this "challenge" holds no water. Initially, I was going to apply the following logic: Limiting an NFL handicapping contest to just Sides is akin to going scuba diving with only one flipper. Simply put, totals have become as popular a wagering proposition as sides and (at least in my opinion) are much more handicappable. In otherwords, one's capping talent (or lack thereof) is better, and more accurately, measured by at least the INCLUSION of totals in the mix. This is not to mention the power of correlation between sides and totals.

So, like I said, I was going to offer up the opinion that, if you're not including totals in your handicapping regimen, you're missing the boat. This was based on the following statements you made: "I seldom bet NFL totals and do not wish to lower my advantage", "I am focued on one thing each week", and "I seldom handicap totals." So, I decided to do a little research and, come to find out, you not only bet NFL totals, but you RECOMMEND them to the rest of this forum. In threads started by you, dated 9-10, 9-23, 9-24, 9-29, and 10-1 (I ceased my research at this point) it sure seems to me like you handicapped and bet totals since they were righ there in black and white. In fact, just last night, you responded to another's thread about the total in the Wash/Dal game and referenced a trend in Mark Lawrence's playbook and then later informed us that the Over was a "steam" move indicating syndicate action. Correct me if I'm wrong, but this doesn't sound to me like you only focus on "one thing".

Secondly, yyz, I'm somewhat surprised by your take on this chain of events, especially the part where you state that an amount was proposed in such a way that it would not be accepted. Reading through this thread, it sure seems to me like the amount is not an issue, just the parameters.

Lastly, NCU, I do not know you so I'm in no position to pass judgement on you, good or bad, however I do personally know Kosar and am somewhat perplexed as to your opinion of him. Do you know him? Do you have enough data to offer up a binding opinion of the man? Certainly this cannot be based on forum postings, can it? While I agree that he can come off as abrasive, one thing is for certain and that is he doesn't speak out of both sides of his mouth (see above). Why has it become taboo to express a differing opinion from the status quo in this forum? I thought this was how we learn. I think it's time for some of the more frequent posters in here (the originator of this thread included) to become a little more tolerant of dissenting opinion and not label somebody as a "**** stirrer" if and when he has one.

 

[Never Caught Up]

Disagreement is one thing, but kosar disagrees by attacking me with his $100 words and saying insulting things that are not well received. Many of us don't agree often and we don't insult each other.

Kosar has said insulting things to me often and always knows just what to say to get me very angry. Even in this thread he has called me a "freak" and publicly attacked Nolan Dalla's integrity. This goes back months in the baseball forum. I am sick of kosar and his rude behavior.

I did not throw out an absurd amount of money counting on it not being accepted. I will agree to "any" amount up to 10,000 so as to keep that from being an issue.

I don't claim to be the best handicapper on here. I never have and never will because I'm not. Actually, I don't even consider my self a handicapper at all. I am, however, a gambler. When I post something it is meant to be helpful and if it isn't, fine, but kosar doesn't have to shoot me down and try to make me look like an idiot for believing what I believe. Time and time again he has challenged my methods . . . methods that have served me well for many years.

Again, this challenge never was to determine who the best handicapper is. I want kosar's money. It is an offer to make a bet . . . something we all do every day.

Since I am betting my money, what is so unfair about that?

Junior44, I understand what you are saying, and I guess I worded my statement wrong. I bet totals. I bet hockey, I bet baseball. I bet basketball. I do it daily with decisions made that are often influenced by things I read on this forum using information gathered from others I respect. Isn't that what we all do? Isn't that what this forum is for? These are not structured decisions, but decisions made right up to game time with the option to play or not to play.

However, in the NFL, many of us are competeing in the Ace's Gold contest. It is the only NFL contest I am participating in on this forum or any other. I want to stay focused on that contest and this way the plays I make in the contest will be the same plays I challenge kosar with. That is what I meant by being focused.

[This message has been edited by Never Caught Up (edited 10-16-2001).]

 

[gsp]

I have to side with NCU. Every gambler wants and edge and he feels he can cap sides better than Kosar. To have a bet, you have to have two people thinking they can win. Nothing wrong with turning the bet down and nothing wrong with trying to turn the adv around. That's gambling. Sounds pretty simple to me.

 

[bear]

This, while somewhat interesting.....somewhat diversional....is a bunch of adolescent crap...Get over it gentlemen and get on with what we are all here for!
bear

 

[shadow 44]

Kosar being stiffed.
A get together was being planned for opening weekend of college football in NYC.
Beandip announced he was going.
Kosar stated he would take the under in # of participants.
That's all I remember.
Search general forum for the thread concerning a party in NYC.

 

[visionary]

does anyone here have a job???? you must not if you have time for all this nonsense!!
i cant believe this chit!wow...im hoping you are all a bunch of high school kids doing this chit from homeroom or study hall!!!rotf!! if not get a life dude!!!

 

[Nolan Dalla]

This thread was brought to my attention by someone who sent me an e-mail this morning (on Tuesday). So, I'm a bit late in getting involved and responding. Actually, I have no interest in threads like this and usually skip over them just by reading the subject line. But since my name was brought up in a few of the posts and to correct some misperceptions allow me to explain:

About three months ago, some discussion began about the possibility of holding a MadJacks football party the first week of the regular season. It was to be held at the ESPN Zone in Times Square in NYC. There was marginal interest from MJS readers and no one seemed to be willing to commit to the event. So, in the interest of trying to get things rolling Jack and I both announced we were both going to attend no matter how many were going to show up (at the time, we fully intended to drive to NYC, which we hoped might encourage others to do the same). I further went on to say that I expected OVER 20 people to attend and also issued a "challenge" that I'd bet $500 that we would get 20+ people in attendance.

The thread died out over the next few weeks and at the time I was in Las Vegas most of the month of August. While in Las Vegas, I didn't follow the Message Forum closely (browsing it no more than a couple of times each week).

When I returned back to the East Coast, I got an e-mail from someone (maybe it was Kosar) asking if I intended to honor the wager. I went to the forum and saw that Kosar had accepted the challenge and taken the UNDER. I was a bit surprised by all this, because the party pretty much fell through (there was no party, unless a few people got together and we didn't hear about it).

About a week BEFORE the party was supposedly to take place, Kosar and I began an exchange of e-mails. Kosar thought he was entitled to be paid in full. I balked at the idea saying that we didn't agree to any terms or conditions in advance and there was no explicit understanding between us about what constituted a party or the attendees. Since -- as it turned out -- there was no MadJack's party in NYC, wagering on the attendance really wasn't possible. I thought it was analogous to a rainout in baseball. I further argued that to have a bet you have to have a 'handshake' -- not a physical one mind you -- but a clear understanding on the part of both parties who know exactly what the bet is. I argued to Kosar (in a private e-mail) that unless we agreed to the terms of the bet in advance, I could very well round up 21 people off the street, bring them to the party, and demand payment. There was never any discussion about whether spouses would be included, and so forth. The bottom line is -- Kosar thought he was entitled to be paid based on his post to the forum, while I insisted that to have a bet there has to be a clear understanding between both parties in advance to know the rules and conditions. I also argued that since this discussion was taking place before date of the so-called "party" (which never came about), either person would be entitled to not accepting the bet (in other words -- the discussion was taking place BEFORE the outcome was determined).

Nevertheless, I was surprised to see that Kosar thought he was entitled to be paid-off. I was also disappointed that he brought up my name in this thread. I'm not sure what is to be gained by discussing this any further, and I considered ignoring the thread when it was brought to my attention, but I did want to explain the nature of what Kosar was talking about.

-- Nolan Dalla

 

[MadJack]

believe it or not, some people actually come to this forum looking for information on betting NFL games. so, if it's ok with you guys, i'll move this thread to the 'general' forum where you can slug it out all week long if you want.

thanks for nothing.