New UBL tape

DOGS THAT BARK

Registered User
Forum Member
Jul 13, 1999
19,465
135
63
Bowling Green Ky
there ya go, smurphy, bashing my guy ... just spread the love, its the new age PC times ... pick a daisy and stuff it down a rifle barrel :)

Pt You think you could get Mel to change his avatar to yours and Edwards--and do utube video for us singing the tune "we are family" :mj07:
 

bryanz

Registered User
Forum Member
Aug 8, 2001
9,724
35
48
64
Syracuse ny, usa
I'd ask you if you wanted to answer questions also--but we been that route before--easy to make blanket statements--much tougher to back them up :)

Don't see how my vision of who is protesting against war can be flawed---whens the last time you saw conservatives protest period.Only protest I can remember coming from conservatives in past have been abortion issues--can't remember a week that goes by liberals aren't protesting something--confirming the half empty/full theory.

a favor if I may--can't seem to locate utube video of Columbia's journalism of free speech liberals -throwing chairs at the minute man in lecture--could you assist me :)
Never heard of it.
 

bryanz

Registered User
Forum Member
Aug 8, 2001
9,724
35
48
64
Syracuse ny, usa
It's a patriots right to protest. Where would this Country be without protest ? We all can't be blind loyalist. The majority of the people that protest or speak out don't burn flags.
 

DOGS THAT BARK

Registered User
Forum Member
Jul 13, 1999
19,465
135
63
Bowling Green Ky
Mainly, I just wanted to clear up the point you were evidently trying to make, which was the most blatantly incorrect post I've ever seen you make. That said...

I think the questions and points you make are essentially correct. But I don't think the way you lump it all together is fair, nor do I think to simply say is Al Qaida worse off now is a basic measure without looking at the cost and effect of how they were made less of a factor.

The main point to me is that Al Qaida and Iraq had a miniscule relationship to begin with, and did not represent a unified problem (still don't in most ways) until we attacked and occupied Iraq. Simple point, in my mind extremely important, and in your arguments and most other conservatives are blurred for political point making. In my opinion, the two issues are separate, and one does not have much bearing on the other - and should not.

I personally feel had we not pulled the majority of our troops out of the hunt for Bin Laden and more prevalent areas Al Qaida were known to be, we would have been more successful in whatever the nebulous war on terror is supposed to be. And again, when we attacked Iraq, we were not fighting terrorists on their soil - instead of in America - as is often thrown out here and elsewhere. We were attacking Saddam Hussein and his Royal Guard supporters. So, the entire Iraq situation has little to do with the war on terror, in my mind, so it's a different thing.

I don't want to take up too much space here with addressing all your points individually, because that would take a lot of time and research. I don't give you those points, necessarily, each are worthy of discussion. Two quick points, when you say Pakistani's in general are fighting Al Qaida and that Muslims in general are fighting Al Qaida, I don't think that's entirely accurate. Certainly there are factions of both that are not acting in the best interests of the U.S. And you continually post about the Saudi's (mainly the people who actually attacked us, by the way) major moves against terrorism, when the vast majority of their efforts are done only to protect their own oil interests in their own country - which is completely in their own best interest, has nothing much to do with U.S. support. This has been repeatedly posted on here, and yet you continue to take political credit for it...same story, different day.

Simply, I don't think the war in Iraq has had many positive effects on the war on terror, because it's not the same thing - at least at face value. And it has given Al Qaida greater access and ability to strike Americans than before, since many have come there to strike when they could not have had we not gone there.
I think it remains a huge negative that we have not gotten Bin Laden. I think Iraq has detracted dramatically from the efforts to get them. Had we gotten him at any point since we essentially pulled away from that fight (with a majority of our firepower) it would have done far more than anything else we have done - to slow or put a stop to that movement. My opinion.

Thanks for time of reply Chad--
We agree on several issues--have only problem area (highlighted)
--can't see how a person can acknowledge factors discussed and come up with conclusion AQ has greater access and abilty to strike now than before.
--I believe your most legitamate stance is on going war with Iraq. Could have been big mistake and intially did anger most of muslim world--but as it turns out might be the pivotal move in demise of AQ. Not so much on anything we did in the war--but moreso AQ actions of total disregard of fellow muslims lives for their own agenda. Granted we made many mistakes in war--but none as glaring as AQ's .--and UBL's rant about Iraq being there central arena to run the west out of Muslim territory and our having no guts to fight has changed his image for many muslims from prophet to fool--from leader to roach hiding in cave.
One of biggest assets from war is - might have erased part of the hate that GW's father instilled in middle east by promising to help and then running like rabbit and leaving them at the mercy of Saddam.
 

Jabberwocky

Registered User
Forum Member
Mar 3, 2006
3,491
29
0
Jacksonville, FL
Thanks for time of reply Chad--
We agree on several issues--have only problem area (highlighted)
--can't see how a person can acknowledge factors discussed and come up with conclusion AQ has greater access and abilty to strike now than before.
--I believe your most legitamate stance is on going war with Iraq. Could have been big mistake and intially did anger most of muslim world--but as it turns out might be the pivotal move in demise of AQ. Not so much on anything we did in the war--but moreso AQ actions of total disregard of fellow muslims lives for their own agenda. Granted we made many mistakes in war--but none as glaring as AQ's .--and UBL's rant about Iraq being there central arena to run the west out of Muslim territory and our having no guts to fight has changed his image for many muslims from prophet to fool--from leader to roach hiding in cave.
One of biggest assets from war is - might have erased part of the hate that GW's father instilled in middle east by promising to help and then running like rabbit and leaving them at the mercy of Saddam.

who are we at WAR with again?
 

gardenweasel

el guapo
Forum Member
Jan 10, 2002
40,574
226
63
"the bunker"
Gary:

Food for thought:

5 years ago today, pre-US invasion Al-Quida was NOT in Iraq.

Today, post-US invasion and during our occupation, Al-Quida IS in Iraq.

Any questions?

Eddie

of course he was "complicit" with al qaeda and their ilk..who do you think was paying suicide bombers 25g`s a pop to kill westerners?...al zarqawi actually travelled from afghanistan through iran to get to iraq for medical treatment and r&r when he was injured fighting in afghanistan....

wonder why he didn`t get treatment in iran?...
..
menewzz.gif


they`d been attacking us for at least 15-20 years prior to iraq...so when we removed the dictator saddam (i can`t mention his last name...don`t want to offend the obamessiah) ,they attacked us there...stands to reason...

you can make an argument against the war...but,not for implementing foreign policy because of what al qaeda wants or threatens to do.....that only makes sense in your mind...

that`s how al qaeda wants it to work...al qaeda and al edward...

it`s a good thing...seems to have diverted their attention away from kiling new yorkers for awhile...

a two-fer...get rid of the dictator who invaded our allies in the region(kuwait,lobbing scuds into israel,trying to assassinate gwb sr,failure to give the u.n. free access to inspect,paying suicide bombers,gassing the kurds),while diverting al qaeda to a place where our military can face them,rather than our civilians...

happy resurrection day,counselor...to yourself and the rest of the aclu oompaloompas....:toast:
 

Chadman

Realist
Forum Member
Apr 2, 2000
7,501
42
48
SW Missouri
Thanks for time of reply Chad--
We agree on several issues--have only problem area (highlighted)
--can't see how a person can acknowledge factors discussed and come up with conclusion AQ has greater access and abilty to strike now than before.

One of biggest assets from war is - might have erased part of the hate that GW's father instilled in middle east by promising to help and then running like rabbit and leaving them at the mercy of Saddam.

My simple point is, which seems excessively simple, is that by sending soldiers to Iraq - instead of not going into Iraq - they were much easier for Al Qaida and other opportunistic West hating Muslims to hit. Have we damaged the Al Qaida operation? I think so, from what I have read. But I don't know if there are new members, what their capabilities are or might be, and as long as Bin Laden is not proven caputured or dead (despite scattered threads at Mad Jack's ;) the movement will make sense to new recruits in many ways.

As for Bush's father, I thought he handled that situation correctly - always have. He answered a call for help from a country that was being attacked by Saddam. He had a clear focus and mission - driving them out of there, and making sure they didn't go back. He was crippled militarily and economically during and after that, and was essentially controlled - despite the fabrications presented by this administration in the years to come. His father would have lost support and face with some valuable allies, and would have lost American lives along with Iraqi innocent lives had he gone on after Saddam - which was not a part of the mission and was not communicated to allies in garnering support. Support, which was nearly unanimous worldwide - unlike the elective Iraq war.
 

DOGS THAT BARK

Registered User
Forum Member
Jul 13, 1999
19,465
135
63
Bowling Green Ky
My simple point is, which seems excessively simple, is that by sending soldiers to Iraq - instead of not going into Iraq - they were much easier for Al Qaida and other opportunistic West hating Muslims to hit. Have we damaged the Al Qaida operation? I think so, from what I have read. But I don't know if there are new members, what their capabilities are or might be, and as long as Bin Laden is not proven caputured or dead (despite scattered threads at Mad Jack's ;) the movement will make sense to new recruits in many ways.

As for Bush's father, I thought he handled that situation correctly - always have. He answered a call for help from a country that was being attacked by Saddam. He had a clear focus and mission - driving them out of there, and making sure they didn't go back. He was crippled militarily and economically during and after that, and was essentially controlled - despite the fabrications presented by this administration in the years to come. His father would have lost support and face with some valuable allies, and would have lost American lives along with Iraqi innocent lives had he gone on after Saddam - which was not a part of the mission and was not communicated to allies in garnering support. Support, which was nearly unanimous worldwide - unlike the elective Iraq war.

My rant on George Sr was telling the Shites we would aid them in their overthrow of Saddam and then when they stuck their necks out he and general swarzkoff (spl) backed out and they were slaughtered.Same VN--when we pulled out and wouldn't even send them parts for equipment so they could continue--UBL had legitimate read until this admin.
 

Chadman

Realist
Forum Member
Apr 2, 2000
7,501
42
48
SW Missouri
Understand that, thanks. Why did that administration refuse to honor their words and commitments, Wayne? I don't remember the specifics on that.
 

DOGS THAT BARK

Registered User
Forum Member
Jul 13, 1999
19,465
135
63
Bowling Green Ky
Understand that, thanks. Why did that administration refuse to honor their words and commitments, Wayne? I don't remember the specifics on that.

Have no idea why they back out Chad--I'll see what I can hunt up in am @ office I remember the fat ass swarzkoff retired right after that. Was severe blow to relations in area where we needed all the good karma we could get. I can't stand Bush Sr to this day--and IMO aside from Carter the worst pres in my lifetime.
 
Bet on MyBookie
Top