Nolan Richardson has been bought out...
- Thread starter wareagle
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This is a touchy subject, but think about this.
Baseball guys get crap because they are interested in signing some tremendous talent from the Dominican and Venezuela. Why not find the same athletes in the US? For sure there are guys that are athletic from the inner cities that can run 6.2 and 6.3, but they don't play baseball here in the US.... Nobody shows them how from a young age, and they are more likely to go towards the role models and coaches in other sports, particularly basketball and sometimes football. We need some more ex-players and coaches to step up in a variety of areas including some minority youth coaching positions.
If I had a choice between a kid that 'grew up hard' and a soft kid from the suburbs, both with equal talent, I can guarantee you that I'd take the first player. They tend to have more determination and they have more motivation to do well because it's a ticket out, and that's what seperates the good players from the lousy players.
And as far as recruiting like players -- why is it only an issue when the team is high profile? The same thing happens everywhere for different reasons. Girls basketball recruits to certain programs based on the players sexuality. Its a selling point very often when a team has all or more lesbians than another.
It's natural for athletes to seek out a comfortable environment becuase it allows the focus to be on sports, where it should be. I don't see as this being wrong.
Overall, I don't agree with what Nolan and some others have to say. But atleast they are saying 'something.' That's what's important. Get some people to do something and encourage something in life. If it helps only a couple minorites by encouraging them to go out and play and do something positive, it's two more than it would have been if he says nothing. Maybe he's not the answer himself, but what if he encourages a young man to play, who in turn steps up after his own career is finished to help others? Then it is a success.
Baseball guys get crap because they are interested in signing some tremendous talent from the Dominican and Venezuela. Why not find the same athletes in the US? For sure there are guys that are athletic from the inner cities that can run 6.2 and 6.3, but they don't play baseball here in the US.... Nobody shows them how from a young age, and they are more likely to go towards the role models and coaches in other sports, particularly basketball and sometimes football. We need some more ex-players and coaches to step up in a variety of areas including some minority youth coaching positions.
If I had a choice between a kid that 'grew up hard' and a soft kid from the suburbs, both with equal talent, I can guarantee you that I'd take the first player. They tend to have more determination and they have more motivation to do well because it's a ticket out, and that's what seperates the good players from the lousy players.
And as far as recruiting like players -- why is it only an issue when the team is high profile? The same thing happens everywhere for different reasons. Girls basketball recruits to certain programs based on the players sexuality. Its a selling point very often when a team has all or more lesbians than another.
It's natural for athletes to seek out a comfortable environment becuase it allows the focus to be on sports, where it should be. I don't see as this being wrong.
Overall, I don't agree with what Nolan and some others have to say. But atleast they are saying 'something.' That's what's important. Get some people to do something and encourage something in life. If it helps only a couple minorites by encouraging them to go out and play and do something positive, it's two more than it would have been if he says nothing. Maybe he's not the answer himself, but what if he encourages a young man to play, who in turn steps up after his own career is finished to help others? Then it is a success.
hey wondo, I'm not gonna touch the "lesbian" stuff, but it does get me thinking....:brows: Whoa!!!!
Actually, what you said about baseball players is true. Teams have scouts and developmental staff in those very countries. Kids are sought out and nurtured at a very young age to play baseball because they are made to believe that it's all they have to go on if they want to "make it in life", and it's perpetuated in their communities and by their peers. As is the case for many American black youths, these Dominican kids glorify their role models to the point where they dream of becoming like them. To them, baseball=life. It's their ticket out of the neighborhood, and hopefully to a better life.
To pro baseball teams, the Dominican Rep, Cuba, etc. are like breeding grounds, the youngsters like young cattle. In boxing, aren't we impressed by those fighters who "grew up in the mean streets" and who are able to take that toughness with them into the ring? Someone once said sports is organized violence. Today's competitors are akin to the gladiators in Roman times.
Actually, what you said about baseball players is true. Teams have scouts and developmental staff in those very countries. Kids are sought out and nurtured at a very young age to play baseball because they are made to believe that it's all they have to go on if they want to "make it in life", and it's perpetuated in their communities and by their peers. As is the case for many American black youths, these Dominican kids glorify their role models to the point where they dream of becoming like them. To them, baseball=life. It's their ticket out of the neighborhood, and hopefully to a better life.
To pro baseball teams, the Dominican Rep, Cuba, etc. are like breeding grounds, the youngsters like young cattle. In boxing, aren't we impressed by those fighters who "grew up in the mean streets" and who are able to take that toughness with them into the ring? Someone once said sports is organized violence. Today's competitors are akin to the gladiators in Roman times.
Gecko,
That was a good post. However, in your references to Rupp sounds like you're still trying to justify some current actions by black coaches based on something that happened over 30 years ago. OR, I could read into your statement that you are actually putting coaches like Richardson into the same classification as Rupp.
I DO agree with your observation that more black kids are being recruited and are playing because that's what the fans want (or at least that's what the coaches think the fans want). Al McGuire said one time that he didn't think black kids were inately better at playing basketball but that they played a lot MORE ball than their white counterparts and therefore had better skills. I agree with Al. I also agree with your observation that there are a lot of white coaches who play mostly black guys all the time, Huggins is an excellent example. And he doesn't graduate his players. And I don't like him any more than Richardson. He does his school AND his players a great disservice.
But back to what the fans want. As a University of Kentucky basketball fan I want to watch a group of young men who honorably represent their university and their fans both on and off the court. I want the university to do everything in their power to make sure these young men, who work so hard and give up so much of their personal lives, that these young men graduate. I want the basketball players to be diverse and diversity means that some white players play. Somewhere around 98% of the rural population of Kentucky is white and that is where the most loyal fan base is found, I think the team should look more like their fans. I want Tubby Smith to recruit more players from the Bluegrass (black and white) and surrounding region instead of becoming a semi-pro team from all over the nation. I want a team I can be passionate about again, like the left-overs from the Eddie Sutton debacle, those guys no one else wanted, the guys who stuck with the program and ended up playing in the greatest college game of all time:
Richie Farmer (Kentucky)
Deron Feldhaus(Kentucky)
Sean Woods(Indiana)
John Pelphrey(Kentucky)
Win or lose, I watched every minute of every game and was always proud of the effort those guys put forth. I love to see my team win, but I would rather root for a losing team that I can be passionate about than a winning team I can't identify with. I rarely watch the Wildcats any more.
And I'm not the only person who feels this way in the Bluegrass, believe me, Tubby is heading for trouble if he continues the way he is going with the program. I like Tubby Smith though and I hope he can make some changes for his fans.
That was a good post. However, in your references to Rupp sounds like you're still trying to justify some current actions by black coaches based on something that happened over 30 years ago. OR, I could read into your statement that you are actually putting coaches like Richardson into the same classification as Rupp.
I DO agree with your observation that more black kids are being recruited and are playing because that's what the fans want (or at least that's what the coaches think the fans want). Al McGuire said one time that he didn't think black kids were inately better at playing basketball but that they played a lot MORE ball than their white counterparts and therefore had better skills. I agree with Al. I also agree with your observation that there are a lot of white coaches who play mostly black guys all the time, Huggins is an excellent example. And he doesn't graduate his players. And I don't like him any more than Richardson. He does his school AND his players a great disservice.
But back to what the fans want. As a University of Kentucky basketball fan I want to watch a group of young men who honorably represent their university and their fans both on and off the court. I want the university to do everything in their power to make sure these young men, who work so hard and give up so much of their personal lives, that these young men graduate. I want the basketball players to be diverse and diversity means that some white players play. Somewhere around 98% of the rural population of Kentucky is white and that is where the most loyal fan base is found, I think the team should look more like their fans. I want Tubby Smith to recruit more players from the Bluegrass (black and white) and surrounding region instead of becoming a semi-pro team from all over the nation. I want a team I can be passionate about again, like the left-overs from the Eddie Sutton debacle, those guys no one else wanted, the guys who stuck with the program and ended up playing in the greatest college game of all time:
Richie Farmer (Kentucky)
Deron Feldhaus(Kentucky)
Sean Woods(Indiana)
John Pelphrey(Kentucky)
Win or lose, I watched every minute of every game and was always proud of the effort those guys put forth. I love to see my team win, but I would rather root for a losing team that I can be passionate about than a winning team I can't identify with. I rarely watch the Wildcats any more.
And I'm not the only person who feels this way in the Bluegrass, believe me, Tubby is heading for trouble if he continues the way he is going with the program. I like Tubby Smith though and I hope he can make some changes for his fans.
sKINAR....
From one Bluegrass fan to another......A-Fukkin'-MEN!! Did ya happen to catch that game with the Cats down 30 vs. that LSU squad with Jackson, Roberts, & Shaq?
From one Bluegrass fan to another......A-Fukkin'-MEN!! Did ya happen to catch that game with the Cats down 30 vs. that LSU squad with Jackson, Roberts, & Shaq?
2 graduates is insulting. Arkansas while a good academic institute, is no Duke. How come Coach K graduates so many more kids at a much tougher school? Who is the better Coach? Who is the better Man? Who is doing more for his kids in the long run? Nolan can kiss my ass.
Truthfully, I really don't think you can compare the two. The two men are in two totally different classifications. K, I believe, sincerely cares about the kids he recruits, while Richardson cares about winning basketball games. Keep in mind, I'm a raving UK fan, but truth be known, I'd give anything if Kentucky had a similiar type fella running their program.
Truthfully, I really don't think you can compare the two. The two men are in two totally different classifications. K, I believe, sincerely cares about the kids he recruits, while Richardson cares about winning basketball games. Keep in mind, I'm a raving UK fan, but truth be known, I'd give anything if Kentucky had a similiar type fella running their program.
Neemer,
I remember that game well, I was in Florida at the time on a golf trip. If I remember correctly the Cats were down 35 points at one time in the second half and their comeback still ranks as the greatest second half comeback in the history of college basketball.
My roommate on the golf trip (one of those all guy drunken golf fests) bailed out on the game after they got down so far. I woke him after the game (he passed out I think) and told him the Cats won which he just couldn't believe until they showed it on Sports Center.
I'd love to have someone like Coach K in Lexington myself. There aren't many like him though. My Mother, Father and myself were talking Big Blue yesterday and we decided Tubby's team has the Joe B Hall syndrome - they're afraid to shoot, endlessly pass the ball around the perimeter (per the coach), glance at the bench upon each little error, and look scared most of the time. In short, they have become boring again. That's not a good thing for the coach's longevity in Big Blue country.
I remember that game well, I was in Florida at the time on a golf trip. If I remember correctly the Cats were down 35 points at one time in the second half and their comeback still ranks as the greatest second half comeback in the history of college basketball.
My roommate on the golf trip (one of those all guy drunken golf fests) bailed out on the game after they got down so far. I woke him after the game (he passed out I think) and told him the Cats won which he just couldn't believe until they showed it on Sports Center.
I'd love to have someone like Coach K in Lexington myself. There aren't many like him though. My Mother, Father and myself were talking Big Blue yesterday and we decided Tubby's team has the Joe B Hall syndrome - they're afraid to shoot, endlessly pass the ball around the perimeter (per the coach), glance at the bench upon each little error, and look scared most of the time. In short, they have become boring again. That's not a good thing for the coach's longevity in Big Blue country.
Skinar
Skinar
Before I address your reply, let me first state my feelings on the student athlete. I did not compete in intercollegiate athletics. I also do not envy the difficult balancing act between academics, athletics and extracurriculars that they have to go through. That said, it should be a PRIVILEGE and an HONOR for any student athlete to compete on behalf on behalf of his or her academic institution. I believe some of them take advantage of their system in order to pursue their dreams of playing at the pro level, obviously at the expense of their studies. Conversely, colleges take advantage of, or even bend the rules for, them in order to continue their programs' success and raise money. It's a seemingly easy subject to address but a difficult one to resolve.
Now firstly, let me applaud your passion for Kentucky basketball. Your wishes are genuine and perhaps you may have some solutions for the current state of the program (which I am not familiar with). As for the issue of representation within the team, I don't see it as a cut and dry issue. Whether the team is comprised of mostly whites or blacks, as long as the team is winning and is supported by its fans, then fine. If anything, I suppose the team has to try harder to endear themselves to the community and be involved in it. Let's face it, not every kid will from within the state or even the region. Recruiting is now nationwide, not just regional. If the #3 H.S. player in the nation is from New York City and wants to play at Kentucky, I'm sure Tubby would want him on the team. I do, however, agree with you that the present recruiting system overall should be scrutinized. Some of these kids, when you think about it, are ill equipped to handle life at the college level and would not even be there if not for athletics.
As an example, I'll take John Thompson. Remember when he was the coach he opposed some proposition that would have raised academic standards for student athletes? Now whether it was racially biased as I believed he had charged it to be or not, I do believe there has to be certain rigorous standards to be met in order to maintain the integrity of the program and the university. Like I said, Thompson's no dummy. He's trying to keep a winning program in place and that rule would have affected his attracting the best players to Georgetown (no, not KY). John Chaney once said he wouldn't recruit a kid who had a lawn in front of his house. Get it?
That's an interesting tidbit about Coach McGuire. I didn't know he said that. Regarding Adolph Rupp, obviously he won with what he had to work with, but was stubborn in accepting change. Not trying to use him for any justification at all. The eras and the situations are different. There was a furor back then about Rupp and there is one now regarding Richardson and others. Again, it's just for some historical perspective, not a compare/contrast, but just food for thought.
Skinar
Before I address your reply, let me first state my feelings on the student athlete. I did not compete in intercollegiate athletics. I also do not envy the difficult balancing act between academics, athletics and extracurriculars that they have to go through. That said, it should be a PRIVILEGE and an HONOR for any student athlete to compete on behalf on behalf of his or her academic institution. I believe some of them take advantage of their system in order to pursue their dreams of playing at the pro level, obviously at the expense of their studies. Conversely, colleges take advantage of, or even bend the rules for, them in order to continue their programs' success and raise money. It's a seemingly easy subject to address but a difficult one to resolve.
Now firstly, let me applaud your passion for Kentucky basketball. Your wishes are genuine and perhaps you may have some solutions for the current state of the program (which I am not familiar with). As for the issue of representation within the team, I don't see it as a cut and dry issue. Whether the team is comprised of mostly whites or blacks, as long as the team is winning and is supported by its fans, then fine. If anything, I suppose the team has to try harder to endear themselves to the community and be involved in it. Let's face it, not every kid will from within the state or even the region. Recruiting is now nationwide, not just regional. If the #3 H.S. player in the nation is from New York City and wants to play at Kentucky, I'm sure Tubby would want him on the team. I do, however, agree with you that the present recruiting system overall should be scrutinized. Some of these kids, when you think about it, are ill equipped to handle life at the college level and would not even be there if not for athletics.
As an example, I'll take John Thompson. Remember when he was the coach he opposed some proposition that would have raised academic standards for student athletes? Now whether it was racially biased as I believed he had charged it to be or not, I do believe there has to be certain rigorous standards to be met in order to maintain the integrity of the program and the university. Like I said, Thompson's no dummy. He's trying to keep a winning program in place and that rule would have affected his attracting the best players to Georgetown (no, not KY). John Chaney once said he wouldn't recruit a kid who had a lawn in front of his house. Get it?
That's an interesting tidbit about Coach McGuire. I didn't know he said that. Regarding Adolph Rupp, obviously he won with what he had to work with, but was stubborn in accepting change. Not trying to use him for any justification at all. The eras and the situations are different. There was a furor back then about Rupp and there is one now regarding Richardson and others. Again, it's just for some historical perspective, not a compare/contrast, but just food for thought.
Gecko,
Good points and I agree with you on them. I've been watching
ESPN tonight and their special is about college athletes, specifically basketball players, and graduation rates. Bob Huggins - 0% (although he rightfully says this number is skewed. Transfers do NOT count as a graduate even when they make it, NCAA rule which I think is f*cked up). Bob Knight - 98%. Any way you cut it that's a very high percentage and it looks like he's doing the same thing at Texas Tech. Nolan Richardson got some bad ink in this report which must have been done prior to his comments this week.
Back on topic - Nolan Richardson has been bought out by Arkansas for 3 million. He is no longer answering questions and is referring everything to his lawyer, a civil rights specialist. Looks like 3 million won't be enough for coach Richardson (it's just a downright insult that he can't get more money than that. Perhaps a pound of university flesh may make it a fair deal.)
Adolph Rupp was as stubborn as they get, and he was a racist. Lots of people were in those days, it was generally accepted among white men his age. Things have changed for the better since then and even middle aged white guys like myself have no defense for the actions of guys like Rupp - it happened. I have no desire to return to those days, yet when the pendulum swings it never stops at the bottom.
Good points and I agree with you on them. I've been watching
ESPN tonight and their special is about college athletes, specifically basketball players, and graduation rates. Bob Huggins - 0% (although he rightfully says this number is skewed. Transfers do NOT count as a graduate even when they make it, NCAA rule which I think is f*cked up). Bob Knight - 98%. Any way you cut it that's a very high percentage and it looks like he's doing the same thing at Texas Tech. Nolan Richardson got some bad ink in this report which must have been done prior to his comments this week.
Back on topic - Nolan Richardson has been bought out by Arkansas for 3 million. He is no longer answering questions and is referring everything to his lawyer, a civil rights specialist. Looks like 3 million won't be enough for coach Richardson (it's just a downright insult that he can't get more money than that. Perhaps a pound of university flesh may make it a fair deal.)
Adolph Rupp was as stubborn as they get, and he was a racist. Lots of people were in those days, it was generally accepted among white men his age. Things have changed for the better since then and even middle aged white guys like myself have no defense for the actions of guys like Rupp - it happened. I have no desire to return to those days, yet when the pendulum swings it never stops at the bottom.
Mike Anderson has been named the interim....but he WILL be the
next HC, has been waiting in the wings for years and Nolan and
the whole shebang knows it....U of A will not suffer from this
debacle, in fact may bump it up a notch with a NEW attitude.....
I know I'll get chit for my next comments, but here goes.....In
defense of Nolan, and my ass is snow white.......never met a man
so high on the totem pole and yet so down to earth....I was a
golf course superintendent in NW Ark for 6 years up until last
year and on several occasions bumped into Coach and he would
stop, grinning from ear to ear, and tell me how great the course
was but also would just shoot the chit for up to 5 minutes which
is a no no on a golf course because of speed of play.....you can't
compare Duke and U of A, and if you do you don't get it....trying
to draw an athelete to NW Ark is IMPOSSIBLE....but because of
NR, they've done BETTER THAN AVERAGE...........am I happy with
this recent BS.....no.....but I do have an understanding of his
frustrations which MOST may not.......Nolan has a ranch outside
of town and while I was still there and it was during LAST season,
someone drove by his ranch and shot several of his prize horses
with a rifle....shot one through the neck....he's been dealing with
this chit ALL his life....ask any coach in the SEC and they will tell
you that NOONE has walked in his shoes so NOONE should cast
judgement.......He is a good man and after all the dust settles
that fact will be shown........Any coach knows what went down
today......many fans also know what went down........it's a shame
it had to end that way, because Coach Richardson deserves
better than that.........
next HC, has been waiting in the wings for years and Nolan and
the whole shebang knows it....U of A will not suffer from this
debacle, in fact may bump it up a notch with a NEW attitude.....
I know I'll get chit for my next comments, but here goes.....In
defense of Nolan, and my ass is snow white.......never met a man
so high on the totem pole and yet so down to earth....I was a
golf course superintendent in NW Ark for 6 years up until last
year and on several occasions bumped into Coach and he would
stop, grinning from ear to ear, and tell me how great the course
was but also would just shoot the chit for up to 5 minutes which
is a no no on a golf course because of speed of play.....you can't
compare Duke and U of A, and if you do you don't get it....trying
to draw an athelete to NW Ark is IMPOSSIBLE....but because of
NR, they've done BETTER THAN AVERAGE...........am I happy with
this recent BS.....no.....but I do have an understanding of his
frustrations which MOST may not.......Nolan has a ranch outside
of town and while I was still there and it was during LAST season,
someone drove by his ranch and shot several of his prize horses
with a rifle....shot one through the neck....he's been dealing with
this chit ALL his life....ask any coach in the SEC and they will tell
you that NOONE has walked in his shoes so NOONE should cast
judgement.......He is a good man and after all the dust settles
that fact will be shown........Any coach knows what went down
today......many fans also know what went down........it's a shame
it had to end that way, because Coach Richardson deserves
better than that.........
Let me add the point I wanted to make but didn't....the coaching
profession is getting so out of hand with the demands that .......
well, you will see MUCH MORE of this to come.........
profession is getting so out of hand with the demands that .......
well, you will see MUCH MORE of this to come.........
The thread that never ends....
The thread that never ends....
This controversy will go on as long as it's in the news, but at least we're a step towards closure. What happened today IS the best thing that could have happened. Billy, thanks for a bit of insight into Nolan. Don't know the man except for his coaching accomplishments. Yes, I read how he experience discrimination while growing up in El Paso, and obviously life experiences are not easily forgotten. When he speaks, he does carry himself with dignity and is often times eloquent. Yet that does not justify him injecting his personal sentiments into the equation. If anything, he could (and might very well) have addressed it to his family and friends, university officials, and community leaders. It is unfortunate it had to end this way. (I do remember the story about his horses. It's too bad there are idiots in this world that would do something like that.)
Skinar, without a doubt Bob Knight is the classic coach/disciplinarian. Can you imagine if there were 100 of him on the college level? Scary thought, huh? There just has to be some give and take between concentration on academics and athletics, and no student athlete is perfect. Like I said, I don't envy them.
btw, I had considered being a sociology major in college. And I'm not even a Duke basketball player!!!
The thread that never ends....
This controversy will go on as long as it's in the news, but at least we're a step towards closure. What happened today IS the best thing that could have happened. Billy, thanks for a bit of insight into Nolan. Don't know the man except for his coaching accomplishments. Yes, I read how he experience discrimination while growing up in El Paso, and obviously life experiences are not easily forgotten. When he speaks, he does carry himself with dignity and is often times eloquent. Yet that does not justify him injecting his personal sentiments into the equation. If anything, he could (and might very well) have addressed it to his family and friends, university officials, and community leaders. It is unfortunate it had to end this way. (I do remember the story about his horses. It's too bad there are idiots in this world that would do something like that.)
Skinar, without a doubt Bob Knight is the classic coach/disciplinarian. Can you imagine if there were 100 of him on the college level? Scary thought, huh? There just has to be some give and take between concentration on academics and athletics, and no student athlete is perfect. Like I said, I don't envy them.
btw, I had considered being a sociology major in college. And I'm not even a Duke basketball player!!!
Billy although Mike Anderson has been at Nolan's side for 21 years.....He will not be the next Head coach of the Razorbacks....
all i have to say is "you heard it hear first!" another advantage of this forum.
Thanks for everyone insight.
Now i hope auburn hires Nolan!
Thanks for everyone insight.
Now i hope auburn hires Nolan!
Somewhere a college team will hire Richardson. As I said earlier, I think he's an excellent coach. If Bob Knight can find a team after all the sh*t he started Richardson should have no problem at all. I can certainly believe that some dumbass redneck probably shot one of his horses also, I know people like that myself but I don't like them and they don't care much for me either. It's a shame that a few people can cause so many problems.
'Nuff said for me. As a Wildcat fan I'm glad he's gone from Arkansas, they really gave us more than 40 minutes of hell over the past decade, and the credit has to go to Coach Richardson.
'Nuff said for me. As a Wildcat fan I'm glad he's gone from Arkansas, they really gave us more than 40 minutes of hell over the past decade, and the credit has to go to Coach Richardson.
