opinions on who has done the most good or harm to this world?

[EXTRAPOLATER]

I'll consider any answers...politicians, religious figures, inventors, whatevas.

I'm not sure, myself. Need to give it more thought and--no doubt--good and bad are left open to subjective appraisal.

I hope to get some interesting responses.
It's not an easy thing to evaluate.

 

[greggraffin]

al gore , he invented the interwebs, im cereal

 

[bleedingpurple]

I would hate to say it but the early settlers of the 1600s.. What a detriment to the "New Country." All they did was savage, rape, and kill Indians who by most accounts attempted to be friendly at first. The new settlers brought with them disease that wiped out many many people. That was not enough as they killed many animals for sport almost wiping out the buffalo heard..

Then they pushed Westward justifying their push to kill and displace Natives with the thought of "Manifest Destiny" God's will for Europeans to push westward. What a joke.

Not to mention they spread their religious beliefs onto a new country that was doing just fine without their religion.

Saying that though without Manifest Destiny and crazy thinking, I and almost all of us would not be here.

 

[EXTRAPOLATER]

Interesting start.
Not sure that I'd consider Gore, at least for the ambiguous reason mentioned or anything else that I can think of.
As for the European settlers of N.America, we can certainly look back and criticize the approach that was taken but in historical context I don't think that they were as malicious as some perspectives proffer; this was a period well before any anthropology or other studies clued us in to the relationships of all in our species and the xenophobia--then, as now, I suppose--was quite accute.

Maybe too much of a response and, as mentioned, I have no clue as to how to answer same.
I have a few favourites from history (I mean beyond Ted Williams), such as Einstein, T.Jefferson or maybe even Tommy Douglas (for Canada, at least) and who can't select a Hitler, e.g., at the other end of the spectrum. anywho...

Partly a measure of value evaluation (say that 5 times fast) and, no doubt, based on education or experience. No answer will be right or wrong and I hope to get a somewhat democratic appraisal of what people's values truly are, by any answers within.

Assuming I haven't scared away whoevas by ranting.
I do that kind of shit, you might have noticed.

 

[The Joker]

Good?

Warren Buffet/Bill Gates - through the Bill Gates foundation. Africa is a better continent because of them. Seriously. Kids in the U.S. in lower class public schools have better learning tools.

Francis Ford Coppola

Martin Luther King Jr.

U.S. Soldiers

Alexander Dumas

Randy Pausch

Abraham Lincoln

Benjamin Franklin

Charles Barkley

Winston Churchill

Jack Daniel's

Ian Flemming


Bad?

Hitler

Rev. Jesse Jackson

Paris Hilton

Conservatives

Michael Bay

Sen. Joe Lieberman

Westboro Baptist Church

Phil Hellmuth

Genghis Khan

Osama Bin Laden

NASCAR

Liberals

The U.S. government around 1963

U.S. Healthcare

 

[SixFive]

Bad:

Joseph Stalin
Adolph Hitler
Pol Pot
OBL
Kadafhi
Saddam Hussein

Televangelist whores such as Swaggart et al who bilked the ignorant out of millions and and pedophile clergy. Both literally or figuratively raped many innocent people and set back Christianity imho as many identify these horrible people as the face of a religion.

Jesse Jackson
Al Sharpton

Good:

Mother Teresa
Billy Graham
Many of those mentioned above I agree with...

 

[kickserv]

Bad = All "Leaders" of Organized Religion.......

 

[gardenweasel]

Bad = All "Leaders" of Organized Religion.......

including radical atheism(also a religion to many....you see much more proselytizing for atheism in here than for any religion)...

/bout time somebody pushed back a little.....sorry for not adhering to the groupthink.. .:sadwave:

 

[Cie]

including radical atheism(also a religion to many....you see much more proselytizing for atheism in here than for any religion)...

not to sway offf topic, but i agree. I am not religious, though I stand vehemently behind the rights of the religious. Atheists, imo, tend to be more antagonistic than believers. This might not be the case overall, but something I have noticed in my real life and here at MJs. Just seems there is more venom from the atheist side.

 

[gardenweasel]

not to sway offf topic, but i agree. I am not religious, though I stand vehemently behind the rights of the religious. Atheists, imo, tend to be more antagonistic than believers. This might not be the case overall, but something I have noticed in my real life and here at MJs. Just seems there is more venom from the atheist side.

well struck,my brother..am totally where you are....and i don`t blame fundamentalists on either side for proselytizing....it`s what fundamentalists do....

thank god we live in a free and open society where everyone can vent their spleen...:toast:

 

[gardenweasel]

i don`t want to get into an argument about rligion with the atheists on the forum that i like and respect(and there are many,and i respect their opinions)...so,lets go in a different direction...

i think that the things that have had the most detrimental effect on humanity is bad hygiene/mother nature....i`m not kiddin`....

in conjunction,they`ve killed more people than anything....... just look at all the plagues that wiped out half of europe during the middle ages......rats, fleas, etc?. you get the idea....

which goes to show, that even though humans come up with inventive ways to f-ck with each other/ kill each other off, nature does a much better job......

 

[bleedingpurple]

which goes to show, that even though humans come up with inventive ways to f-ck with each other/ kill each other off, nature does a much better job......

It would be interesting to see how many people were killed pre - 1900s due to tornadoes, hurricanes, and earthquakes. The country wasn't as heavily populated but you got to figure the people who settled here had no clue about them until they had first hand accounts. Add the fact there was no technology and really no way of fleeing the scene.

 

[bleedingpurple]

Just seems there is more venom from the atheist side.

I definitely agree and I try to understand as to why that is, I am for the most part Atheist but people who I know usually are not Atheist at birth like most religions. I think Atheists come to their own ways of thinking later in life. I can't remember exactly when it was for me... Late teens, early 20s :shrug: Unlike the popular belief by Christians nobody warped my mind or neither a hippie preached to me about atheism, it was just something I deducted in my own head. Right or wrong, and to tell you the truth I hope what I deducted is truly wrong. Would be much better to have an afterlife but even hoping can not change my deductions..

So why is there more venom with atheists? I could be totally off base but this could be why.

1. As I said not many are born atheist at least I think not. You grow up with people always putting religion in your face, my parents forced me to go to church for some time, almost everybody I know preaching to me about God, if you are atheist I think you just get pist after all the years of the preaching or just by the assumption that God is real.

2. I know for me you see guys like the 700 Club asking for your money so you can be saved or great things will be brought onto you for your donation. That's my point..... Many people use Religion as a way to profit with propaganda and it just pisses me off.

3. When you are atheist, wrongly or rightly you look at others as being gullible and maybe it is sad that I feel that way but it is what it is.. Hell they had me fooled about the Easter Bunny, Santa, and the Tooth Fairy for a while. Another reason the gullible feeling sets in is because scientifically it makes absolutely no sense at all.:shrug:

4. This maybe the biggest reason religion pisses me off.. People have been killing people since religion was created because of their beliefs. Funny how everyone THINKS their religion is the right one.

Tried to watch a parade with g/f and kid and a group of men start shouting out the wrath of God if you do not believe. Spewing it for over 5 minutes, I never seen atheists do that.

Look at what religion attracts to preach it..Not all but enough weirdos and child molesters where one should question WTF is going on? Look at what has gone on in the Catholic Church and the Pope. :facepalm: Many will argue about how isolated it is but you can damn well be sure there are many many more children who have not come out yet. So i guess that is why I or some of us have more venom.

 

[EXTRAPOLATER]

I can't argue with the take on the athiest dogmatics. Hitchens, Dawkins, etc. are rather annoying. Chris Hedges, for one, has some good perspectives on that issue.
I've been undecided for years, myself, as to whether or not I am an athiest or an agnostic. I really don't see how one can be the former; who the hell knows how or why this monstrosity of reality is, was and will be.

As for the original question...I still don't know...not really a coherent starting point, I guess. So many different facets to life and we all--no doubt--have different values. You could think regionally and suggest maybe Ghandi for India, e.g., or be subject-specific and think of maybe Newton or Einstein for physics (although e=mc2 isn't doing much good for Japan, these days...or in the past).
You could even say M.J. for basketball or Ruth for baseball or whatevas.
Politics is generally annoying so I don't know, there. And philosophy has been a joke for the past century or so.

Some mentioned are interesting while others are head-scratchers.
Can't quibble about the Jack Daniel's mention.:0074
Though his work has likely taken more lives than it's saved.

I'll have to think of someones. I think that anyone doing legitimate volunteer work or those that will help out strangers certainly have virtue but as for who would be near the summit of virtue, for lack of a better word, is beyond me. Probably easier to list the nasty assholes, unfortunately.

 

[Hashish]

Interesting subject and I will have to give it some thought before I venture forth an opinion for either end of the spectrum.

One thing that comes to mind right away is that you can make an argument for Jesus Christ for both good and bad.

If you think of all the ways his message has been perverted for violence, his life has led to many millions of deaths over the last 2,000 years, not to mention how mistaken interpretations of his message have torn apart families, communities and even countries.

However, if you think about how many people have embraced his message of love and selflessly devoted themselves to helping their fellow man, then you can make a strong argument that his life has led to the most good of anyone's in history.

Again, great topic, Extrapolater.

 

[Betone]

Interesting subject and I will have to give it some thought before I venture forth an opinion for either end of the spectrum.

One thing that comes to mind right away is that you can make an argument for Jesus Christ for both good and bad.

If you think of all the ways his message has been perverted for violence, his life has led to many millions of deaths over the last 2,000 years, not to mention how mistaken interpretations of his message have torn apart families, communities and even countries.

However, if you think about how many people have embraced his message of love and selflessly devoted themselves to helping their fellow man, then you can make a strong argument that his life has led to the most good of anyone's in history.

Again, great topic, Extrapolater.

Fire up another one, living vircariously through you my man...............:toast:

 

[hedgehog]

Send your money to the lord, but they give you there address...

 

[buddy]

Nearly two thousand years ago in an obscure village, a child was born of a peasant woman.

He grew up in another village where He worked as a carpenter until He was thirty.

Then for three years He became an itinerant preacher.

This man never went to college.

He never wrote a book.

He never held a public office.

He never had a family nor owned a home.

He never put His foot inside a big city nor traveled even 200 miles from His birthplace.

And though He never did any of the things that usually accompany greatness, throngs of people followed Him.

He had no credentials but Himself.

While He was still young, the tide of public opinion turned against Him.

His followers ran away.

He was turned over to His enemies and sentenced to death on a cross between two thieves.

While He was dying, His executioners gambled for the only piece of property He had on earth ? the simple coat He had worn.

His body was laid in a borrowed grave provided by a compassionate friend.

But three days later this Man arose from the dead ? living proof that He was, as He had claimed, the Savior whom God had sent, the Incarnate Son of God.

Nineteen centuries have come and gone and today the risen Lord Jesus Christ is the central figure of the human race.

On our calendars, His birth divides history into two eras.

One day of every week is set aside in remembrance of Him.

And our two most important holidays celebrate His birth and resurrection.

On church steeples around the world, His cross has become the symbol of victory over sin and death.

This one Man?s life has furnished the theme for more songs, books, poems and paintings than any other person or event in history.

Thousands of colleges, hospitals, orphanages and other institutions have been founded in honor of this One who gave His life for us.

All the armies that ever marched, all the navies that ever sailed, all the governments that ever sat, all the kings that ever reigned have not changed the course of history as much as this One Solitary Life.

 

[CryBoy]

buddy, that was cool.

 

[kickserv]

buddy:facepalm: