StevieD said:
This is why you shouldn't even bother arguing with people that simpleminded. It is a waste of time.
Paul Johnson killed
- Thread starter kosar
- Start date
This is why you shouldn't even bother arguing with people that simpleminded. It is a waste of time.
stevie...sorry i jumped you...
stevie...sorry i jumped you...
i`m not defending bush....nor do i call politicians or posters i disagree with names.....
i have said many times that i didn`t agree with going into iraq...without some sort of post war strategy...
although i disagreed with the action,i saw the rationale for doing what was done...just trying to be fair...
sometimes i just lose it when i see all the mindless finger pointing and bush bashing.....
i have also said that i don`t think that kerry was such a horrible choice for the democratic nomination....with the exception of lieberman,he was the pick of the litter.....imo...
nobody knows how the iraq situation will play out...although right now,i have to admit it`s a horrible situation....
sorry if i came on a little strong...we`ll never know if removing saddam averted some sort of disaster....maybe an attack on israel...maybe keeping him from shuffling some chemical weapons off to some terrorist organization....
my question is.....what happens with iran?....if it looks like they are building a reactor...or producing weapons....and the u.n. refuses to sanction them...because some member nations have deals with them or some ulterior motive...........
what should be done?.....we certainly can`t change another regime .....what can we do?.....
what do we do to protect ourselves from nations like this that are mired in age old religious zealotry,tribalism and customs....countries with leadership whose thinking clearly hasn`t progressed into the 21st century?....that hate everything we are and believe in?.....
that might be willing to share some of their "stuff" with terrorist organizations that they see as having a mutual enemy......us.....
terrorists that they might see as a silent conduit to perform their dirty work against us,israel or some other western nation....
if we sit on our hands and something happens,we were horribly wrong......and our people will die for it...
if we are proactive,and take a saddam-type out,we`ll never know if we staved off some disaster...
how can you prove something that never happened?....
what do we do?.......mr hockey,what do you think?...i`m serious...not a shot at you...
i don`t know.....
i do know that what`s done can`t be undone....and all the political sniping in the world won`t change it.....
we need to pull together and figure out how to deal with all this sh-t before it comes home to roost......
stevie...sorry i jumped you...
i`m not defending bush....nor do i call politicians or posters i disagree with names.....
i have said many times that i didn`t agree with going into iraq...without some sort of post war strategy...
although i disagreed with the action,i saw the rationale for doing what was done...just trying to be fair...
sometimes i just lose it when i see all the mindless finger pointing and bush bashing.....
i have also said that i don`t think that kerry was such a horrible choice for the democratic nomination....with the exception of lieberman,he was the pick of the litter.....imo...
nobody knows how the iraq situation will play out...although right now,i have to admit it`s a horrible situation....
sorry if i came on a little strong...we`ll never know if removing saddam averted some sort of disaster....maybe an attack on israel...maybe keeping him from shuffling some chemical weapons off to some terrorist organization....
my question is.....what happens with iran?....if it looks like they are building a reactor...or producing weapons....and the u.n. refuses to sanction them...because some member nations have deals with them or some ulterior motive...........
what should be done?.....we certainly can`t change another regime .....what can we do?.....
what do we do to protect ourselves from nations like this that are mired in age old religious zealotry,tribalism and customs....countries with leadership whose thinking clearly hasn`t progressed into the 21st century?....that hate everything we are and believe in?.....
that might be willing to share some of their "stuff" with terrorist organizations that they see as having a mutual enemy......us.....
terrorists that they might see as a silent conduit to perform their dirty work against us,israel or some other western nation....
if we sit on our hands and something happens,we were horribly wrong......and our people will die for it...
if we are proactive,and take a saddam-type out,we`ll never know if we staved off some disaster...
how can you prove something that never happened?....
what do we do?.......mr hockey,what do you think?...i`m serious...not a shot at you...
i don`t know.....
i do know that what`s done can`t be undone....and all the political sniping in the world won`t change it.....
we need to pull together and figure out how to deal with all this sh-t before it comes home to roost......
Last edited:
Not that I want to sound like a conspiracy nut but why have both Daniel Berg and Paul Johnson been wearing those Orange Jumpsuits that we make our prisoners wear? Do we release prisoners over there in these suits? :shrug:
P.S. = Any American staying in Saudi Arabia is taking one huge risk and should get out NOW.
P.S. = Any American staying in Saudi Arabia is taking one huge risk and should get out NOW.
I was just idly channel surfing a few minutes ago and became disgusted. They were showing a video of Paul Johnson's family leaving a house with family members holding jackets up to cover their faces. The family members were crying and obviously upset with the tragic events of the day and were being hounded by the media as they walked from the house to a car. The broadcaster all the while was saying how the family was requesting privacy in these darkest moments. WTF??? How can any media person with any conscience or sense of compassion continue to shoot video of these very personal times of this family as they walk around crying and attempting to hold coats up to hide their grief after this request ? It was absolutely sickening and obscene. I felt like crying for them. Damn media.
When did human decency and moral fiber become such hard concepts to grasp?
When did human decency and moral fiber become such hard concepts to grasp?
Last edited:
I can see how Americans are lured overseas by the amount of money they can make. We have Applied Material contractors/reps who come and work on our equipment making over $150/hour and said they were offered jobs in Iran working basically on the same equipment and would be paid at least 4 times their salary here. But the stipulation is that they have to work in 3-6 month contracts. That's alot of money to be made, but would you risk your life for it?
Stevie I can understand where you are coming from and I, as in your case and others, would not classify all liberals in same boat.
I respect your right to be against the war and maybe time will tell you are correct.
But at the same time I respect moderate liberals views as yourself I do put full blame on extreme left and liberal media.
The new york times has nothing but fuel the fire with their constant front page whining of prison abuse, while atrocities against us may get a couple days of coverage.
Having conflicting opinions is one thing but aiding and abetting the enemy is another.
---and I am aware of your previous statement that you did not agree with the NYT prison agenda--so kudos to you.
I respect your right to be against the war and maybe time will tell you are correct.
But at the same time I respect moderate liberals views as yourself I do put full blame on extreme left and liberal media.
The new york times has nothing but fuel the fire with their constant front page whining of prison abuse, while atrocities against us may get a couple days of coverage.
Having conflicting opinions is one thing but aiding and abetting the enemy is another.
---and I am aware of your previous statement that you did not agree with the NYT prison agenda--so kudos to you.
Wayne:
You are one sick and perverted individual. Mr. Johnsons head would still be attached to his body but for, and ONLY BUT FOR, the murdering religous fanatic president of these United States. No matter how you try to spin it, Mr. Johnson was beheaded by religous fanatics much like your president in retaliation for what in essence is the US presence in the Middle East.
It amazes me how you want to blame the messenger for the message sent by your felon in DC. Mr. Johnson lost his head because of religous fanaticism on both sides of this conflict. If anyone is responsible it is you and your ilk. You might as well chopped off his head yourself.
Now that I've presented the middle of the road view of this issue, I'd like to hear from my friends on the left. By the way, Wayneo, the ACLU is one of the few organizations protecting this country and all that it stands for that is good and right from you and the rest of corporate america that is trying to take over.
True patriots. Not greedy murdering pigs like you.
From the middle,
Eddie
You are one sick and perverted individual. Mr. Johnsons head would still be attached to his body but for, and ONLY BUT FOR, the murdering religous fanatic president of these United States. No matter how you try to spin it, Mr. Johnson was beheaded by religous fanatics much like your president in retaliation for what in essence is the US presence in the Middle East.
It amazes me how you want to blame the messenger for the message sent by your felon in DC. Mr. Johnson lost his head because of religous fanaticism on both sides of this conflict. If anyone is responsible it is you and your ilk. You might as well chopped off his head yourself.
Now that I've presented the middle of the road view of this issue, I'd like to hear from my friends on the left. By the way, Wayneo, the ACLU is one of the few organizations protecting this country and all that it stands for that is good and right from you and the rest of corporate america that is trying to take over.
True patriots. Not greedy murdering pigs like you.
From the middle,
Eddie
oh please...
oh please...
the aclu is a club for lawyers with to much time on their hands....
their main purpose seems to be to blur the distinction between liberty and license....
i do agree with some of their stances on the separation of church and state and abortion...
i don`t agree with trying to change the minutiae on state flags
or the hysterics regarding the patriot act...
and according o some,we are not allowed a presence in the middle east... the saudi royal family has no say over whether the u.s. can have some presence in saudi arabia....
musharaf has no say in whether we have a presence in pakistan...
the kuwaiti`s have no say over who can be in their country....
because the terrorists say get out,that`s gospel...
the terrorists are the ones that call the shots...not the leadership..yeah,right....
again,the tail wags the dog...
oh please...
the aclu is a club for lawyers with to much time on their hands....
their main purpose seems to be to blur the distinction between liberty and license....
i do agree with some of their stances on the separation of church and state and abortion...
i don`t agree with trying to change the minutiae on state flags
or the hysterics regarding the patriot act...and according o some,we are not allowed a presence in the middle east... the saudi royal family has no say over whether the u.s. can have some presence in saudi arabia....
musharaf has no say in whether we have a presence in pakistan...
the kuwaiti`s have no say over who can be in their country....
because the terrorists say get out,that`s gospel...
the terrorists are the ones that call the shots...not the leadership..yeah,right....
again,the tail wags the dog...
Last edited:
Chopsticks, if I was single with those skills in demand I might just do it but to take that risk with family in these post 9/11 days is just reckless in my opinion.
As for the Patriot Act, I like the fact that there are people out there willing to be hysterical in regards to protecting our rights. It seems to me 9/11 happened due to incompetence or lack of co-operation between agencies. Also the very curious lack of response by fighter jets. Hell Payne Stewart (RIP) when he was in that plane before it crashed was tailed by more then one jet. This issue and accountability has NEVER been addressed to a sastifactory degree. There are enough laws on the table now, our freedoms do not have to be eroded further in the fight. The President gets 2,000 legitimate threats a year yet no harm comes to him. (Probably increased post Iraq war though) Competence not more laws is what is needed.
:idea:
As for the Patriot Act, I like the fact that there are people out there willing to be hysterical in regards to protecting our rights. It seems to me 9/11 happened due to incompetence or lack of co-operation between agencies. Also the very curious lack of response by fighter jets. Hell Payne Stewart (RIP) when he was in that plane before it crashed was tailed by more then one jet. This issue and accountability has NEVER been addressed to a sastifactory degree. There are enough laws on the table now, our freedoms do not have to be eroded further in the fight. The President gets 2,000 legitimate threats a year yet no harm comes to him. (Probably increased post Iraq war though) Competence not more laws is what is needed.
:idea:
Re: oh please...
Re: oh please...
GW,
I'm a little confused. A few days ago you mentioned in a post that because the ACLU wasn't up in arms about the Patriot Act, then that was a sign that nobody else should be, since they are always the first ones to bitch.
Now you're saying that you don't agree with their 'hysterics' regarding the Patriot Act. Have they gotten 'hysterical' in the last 2 or 3 days, or what?
Re: oh please...
gardenweasel said:
i don`t agree with trying to change the minutiae on state flags
GW,
I'm a little confused. A few days ago you mentioned in a post that because the ACLU wasn't up in arms about the Patriot Act, then that was a sign that nobody else should be, since they are always the first ones to bitch.
Now you're saying that you don't agree with their 'hysterics' regarding the Patriot Act. Have they gotten 'hysterical' in the last 2 or 3 days, or what?
I've said this before and will apologize in advance for being repititous but, I firmly believe, that as long as we live in a free society, assasinations, terrorism and event such as 9-11 will happen. No amount of planning will prevent a group of suicide bombers from eventually accomplishing their goals.
I further fervently believe that the only, and I repeat only, way to effectivly combat these people is to understand their beliefs and what motivates their actions. Once this is accomplished, we can do two things, better defend ourselves and look at ourselves to either change their motivation and/or ourselves.
Although many of the non-thinking members of this forum love (or are incapable to otherwise) to see the world in black and white, it is unfortuneatly very grey. force v. force or brains v force. Bushco since it obviously lacks brains has chosen to blow the browns off the face of the earth. As the head man himself has said, he doesnt like intellectuals.
Boys and girls this aint a Rocky movie. Its our lives, our future thats at stake. We need the apes to step aside and allow the chimpanzees to regain control. Or, I'm afraid, Georgie boy will be getting his messages from God through the book of Revelations. I for one am not ready for the last days.
I cannot fathom not seeing any more mojo posts. Plus I want to meet some of the neanderthals that post here in AC.
Eddie
I further fervently believe that the only, and I repeat only, way to effectivly combat these people is to understand their beliefs and what motivates their actions. Once this is accomplished, we can do two things, better defend ourselves and look at ourselves to either change their motivation and/or ourselves.
Although many of the non-thinking members of this forum love (or are incapable to otherwise) to see the world in black and white, it is unfortuneatly very grey. force v. force or brains v force. Bushco since it obviously lacks brains has chosen to blow the browns off the face of the earth. As the head man himself has said, he doesnt like intellectuals.
Boys and girls this aint a Rocky movie. Its our lives, our future thats at stake. We need the apes to step aside and allow the chimpanzees to regain control. Or, I'm afraid, Georgie boy will be getting his messages from God through the book of Revelations. I for one am not ready for the last days.
I cannot fathom not seeing any more mojo posts. Plus I want to meet some of the neanderthals that post here in AC.
Eddie
Eddie Haskell said:
Yeah, the refusal of certain elements in this country to at least make an effort to understand the enemy is a huge problem.
The media and a lot of the nation reacts to maltreatment, rape, sodomy and humiliation of enemy prisoners and the visceral reaction of said neanderthals is, 'wtf, it's not like we killed them.' No attempt at all to see why this sort of behavior is very detrimental to this country.
Maybe I should be more sensitive to the feelings of the prisoners, but on a personal level I really could give a flying f*ck if some guys were put in naked pyramids. However, I *do*recognize that doing this sort of thing, that has no utility whatsoever, needlessly puts American citizens at even more risk, not only now, but forever. And all for nothing.
As Haskell mentioned, the Rambo attitude will never work. I remember a lot of the posts here and elsewhere the 2 or 3 days leading up to the start of the war. There was a palpable excitement and I was really left with the impression that a lot of people were anxiously waiting for the television coverage to start. Like it was a movie or something. And when Rummy said 'shock and awe', I would bet many of the people here were at full attention(or half-mast in Freezes case), if you know what I mean.
Maybe it's not arrogant enough, or 'tough' enough to suggest that we try to understand our enemy a little bit, and act accordingly, but it's the only way.
It may be 'cool' to say 'who the hell cares what ANYBODY thinks, WE'RE AMERICA!', but it's that attitude that pervades this admin that has gotten us this 'far.' And there are those of us that are actually or surprised and/or upset when we come back to the U.N. with hat in hand and the other countries look at us like we must be nuts.
Another here, here for the man named after the most fleet afoot quarterback in the history of the NFL. I imagine Wilson climaxed when he heard "shock and awe". Great post Kosar.
Eddie
Eddie
let me clarify
let me clarify
the aclu is all over the net....all over the media decryng the"potential" civil liberties abuses of the patriot act.....
then they were asked to list the abuses that have been perpetrated on american citizens as a result of the act.....
they came up with none....from what i understand...
they cry about "potential" abuses....worst case scenarios...but when asked to put the petal to the metal,they can`t prove that citizens rights have been abridged.....
fears need to be based on some reality, not mere supposition.....
and eddie......you are totally intolerant of the religious right(honestly,i`m not crazy about them myself)...yet you ask for understanding of these barbarian`s beliefs and motives....you are a hypocrite of the first order...i say that with a smirk.....and love and affection........seriously..
you might be able to understand their "beliefs and what motivates their actions"......but,after all,you are a lawyer....it`s your job to defend the indefensible....to rationalize the irrational....
i draw the line at sawing off innocent civilian`s heads.....they weren`t chopped off....they were sawed off....in the most painful and inhumane way possible......there is no rationalization for that kind of barbarism....
unless you are a lawyer
let me clarify
the aclu is all over the net....all over the media decryng the"potential" civil liberties abuses of the patriot act.....
then they were asked to list the abuses that have been perpetrated on american citizens as a result of the act.....
they came up with none....from what i understand...
they cry about "potential" abuses....worst case scenarios...but when asked to put the petal to the metal,they can`t prove that citizens rights have been abridged.....
fears need to be based on some reality, not mere supposition.....
and eddie......you are totally intolerant of the religious right(honestly,i`m not crazy about them myself)...yet you ask for understanding of these barbarian`s beliefs and motives....you are a hypocrite of the first order...i say that with a smirk.....and love and affection........seriously..
you might be able to understand their "beliefs and what motivates their actions"......but,after all,you are a lawyer....it`s your job to defend the indefensible....to rationalize the irrational....
i draw the line at sawing off innocent civilian`s heads.....they weren`t chopped off....they were sawed off....in the most painful and inhumane way possible......there is no rationalization for that kind of barbarism....
unless you are a lawyer
Last edited:
Eddie Haskell said:
:com: :scared :142smilie :shocked:
I am certain that americans need to learn a hell of a lot more about different cultures, people, etc., but from sane people. In all the western hemisphere I guarantee you that 80% do not want to learn too much about the "feelings" of terrorists. I would assume that the moderates of arab-muslim persuasion are of little interest to you.
Eddie Hicksville at it again. Sorry, Ed, but your much abhorred "Joe Six Pack" is a beacon of light compared to your repressed self.
Eddie
"You are one sick and perverted individual. Mr. Johnsons head would still be attached to his body but for, and ONLY BUT FOR, the murdering religous fanatic president of these United States. No matter how you try to spin it, Mr. Johnson was beheaded by religous fanatics much like your president in retaliation for what in essence is the US presence in the Middle East. "
Right and that is why they are beheadings by them in every country that exists. If you'd spend less time on your scanner and more reading of global papers you would realize this.
Your drivil is not even worth discussing.
If you want to lay blame on someone other than those that committed it--you might start with your co-hearts in Spain who gave them the idea that there are weak elements in society that with give into threats.
"You are one sick and perverted individual. Mr. Johnsons head would still be attached to his body but for, and ONLY BUT FOR, the murdering religous fanatic president of these United States. No matter how you try to spin it, Mr. Johnson was beheaded by religous fanatics much like your president in retaliation for what in essence is the US presence in the Middle East. "
Right and that is why they are beheadings by them in every country that exists. If you'd spend less time on your scanner and more reading of global papers you would realize this.
Your drivil is not even worth discussing.
If you want to lay blame on someone other than those that committed it--you might start with your co-hearts in Spain who gave them the idea that there are weak elements in society that with give into threats.
Last edited:
I see there are some congressman that think we should do more to stop the death on our nations highways. There idea is good. The odds of one of us dieng on our highways are higher then the way Brug and Johnson died. The odds of one of us dieing on our highways are higher then dieing by terror attack. Wheres the out rage.
