poker hand discussion

[marine]

Thought I would share this with the boys and see what you all would have done.

Poker room in Green Bay
Full ring game $1/3 with $300 buy in. NL Hold em

Background - been at the table for about 3 hours, across from me is an older fella, very personable, a regular there and has been playing somewhat aggressively, but if/when he gets to showdown he has been turning over strong hands.

The game itself - very passive - very little preflop raising, and if there is a raise, it is normally to 6-12 dollars. I've been limping in late position with any two suited and getting paid off when if the flush hits.

Hand in question:

Older fella - $1100
Me - $850

He is UTG and limps in for 3, 4 callers and it gets around to me and I limp in with 10-4 spades.

Flop: Qd Jc 9s
Old fella bets out $20, 3 calls, and I come along with.

Turn: 2s
and it is checked around

River: 7s
Checked around to me and I bet my backdoor flush with $120
Old fella looks around and then says "All in!"
folded around immediately and the action is on me.

So, I've got ~$650 behind and facing the question to call or not.

so, call or fold?

 

[MadJack]

why didn't you bet the turn :shrug:

 

[Woodson]

I would probably fold seeing as the J,Q,K,A is out there and he may have played A suited low connector?

I would have probably bet the turn with as many cards available for the flush and 10 high.

Did you win?:shrug:

 

[Agent 0659]

I would have bet $100 on the turn. I think it's an easy fold on the river unless you are sure he is bluffing you. Why would he? What could he possibly make that move with? Nah, muck it.

 

[layinwood]

I'm agreeing with MJ and Woody, a bet to get some information on the turn would have made a big difference. It would help to have been there and to have actually seen how he's played the previous three hours but with what info you have shared I would have called. Mainly because he didn't make a play on the turn and you said he'd been playing aggressively. I would have put him on AQ or AJ.

 

[bleedingpurple]

I would fold the hand.. Old fella limped in with K-10 or 8 - 10 and was checking the nuts to get more actiion.. Obviously you must of called him to present this to the forum. I hope you caught him bluffing but something tells me he had the NUTS.

 

[Woodson]

I would fold the hand.. Old fella limped in with K-10 or 8 - 10 and was checking the nuts to get more actiion.. Obviously you must of called him to present this to the forum. I hope you caught him bluffing but something tells me he had the NUTS.

Marine has a flush 10 high... straight won't take it... but if this is what he had he overlooked the flush and Marine cleaned house... :shrug:

 

[bleedingpurple]

Marine has a flush 10 high... straight won't take it... but if this is what he had he overlooked the flush and Marine cleaned house... :shrug:

I need to read better. Now this presents a problem. Its hard to say what I would of done because I wasn't there at the time but knowing me I probably would of called even though laying the hand down would be the "safe." I am putting 2 - 1 odds that Marine lost the hand though.. Older fella has a bigger flush but for Marine's sake I hope hee won.

 

[tball]

theres A-J of spades that paired with another spade would win the hand for him. Trips and two pair wouldnt beat you...and theres no Full House out... i woulda called, putting him on a straight or crappy trips (pocket pair) ???
i'm aggressive though and if he had the flush so be it.

sounds like he bet like he wanted you to think it was a straight, and maybe sucked you in, having a higher flush?

 

[IX_Bender]

but if/when he gets to showdown he has been turning over strong hands.



Older fella - $1100
Me - $850
?

There is your answer.

He may not have the nuts, but he has you beat.

 

[justin22g]

you put yourself in a bad position... if its a passive table, the old fella might have flopped the nuts?

And you put yourself in a bad position by not betting the turn. At least get some equity in the hand to save yourself being check raised on the river. This will also make the weak drawing hands muck, but we all know all that goes, they will call.

I wonder what he had? Did you end up calling him? He might have had the straight and was oblivious to the flush that showed on the river? but he might have had a flush as well? he might have flopped top pair with 2 spades.


Its just weird that he led out on the flop, and then it got checked around on the turn. If he would have had a flush draw on the turn, wouldn't he have bet? I think you have the winner?


and i know what I just said does't make any sense whatsoever! haha

 

[DOGS THAT BARK]

not a poker player but wouldn't betting on the turn also apply to old man--as only hand he could be holding to beat marine is higher flush in same suit. So they be sitting in identicle situation.

 

[justin22g]

not a poker player but wouldn't betting on the turn also apply to old man--as only hand he could be holding to beat marine is higher flush in same suit. So they be sitting in identicle situation.

yeah, it all depends on his table image. He said the old man was betting a lot, but turning over winners. if he was on a flush draw, why wouldn't he bet the turn like he has in the past?



and I know why marine checked the turn... keeping players in the pot HOPING for a spade on the river. if it was an aggressive game, he would have bet the turn to get some equity.

I never play cards anymore, it takes up so much time and thats something I don't have right now

 

[tball]

Its just weird that he led out on the flop, and then it got checked around on the turn. If he would have had a flush draw on the turn, wouldn't he have bet? I think you have the winner?


and i know what I just said does't make any sense whatsoever! haha

he could open ended stright draw at that point or high pair and simply wanted to see where he was at in reagards to anyone else having maybe high end draw or already made hand, could acted to simply take the action out of another players hand... whereas if was checked down to another player he mighta acted with higher than what he was willing to "feeler" bet with?

 

[ctownguy]

First thing is don't worry about what he should have done, the question is what to do after the river.

My thoughts would be there is only one hand that could beat me, a higher flush. I would think what would be the chances of 2 back door flushes with what the hand started out with.

But the main reason I would call is if the old guy had the nuts why shove, a value bet would have made more sense.

I call and take my chances.

 

[tball]

First thing is don't worry about what he should have done, the question is what to do after the river.

My thoughts would be there is only one hand that could beat me, a higher flush. I would think what would be the chances of 2 back door flushes with what the hand started out with.

But the main reason I would call is if the old guy had the nuts why shove, a value bet would have made more sense.

I call and take my chances.

:iagree:
thats everything i meant to say, simply stated clearer more concise.

 

[MadJack]

First thing is don't worry about what he should have done, the question is what to do after the river.

My thoughts would be there is only one hand that could beat me, a higher flush. I would think what would be the chances of 2 back door flushes with what the hand started out with.

But the main reason I would call is if the old guy had the nuts why shove, a value bet would have made more sense.

I call and take my chances.

Yeah, well......that's why you have a WSOP Bracelet :00hour

 

[JOSHNAUDI]

Limp UTG - Beware the limper from first position

I would have put him on a suited Ace, suited connectors or small pp - Off chance of a monster - Aces or Kings

He leads on the flop for about the size of the pot- Not a suited ace in mind
four hands come to mind Q-J, 9-10, j-10 or 99

To me at this time - this would be the most likely
Q-J - You want to win the hand here and not let the guy with a 10 in his hand
9-10, J-10 he would have bet out $10-$12

9's I think he would have played about the same as Q-J but would be surprised if he didn't bump even UTG

Everyone comes along to make the pot around $120

When he doesn't bet the turn - I take QJ off the board (although he could be worried because 3 limpers came along) and put him back on a 10. If I'm holding the 10 of spades there is no way I'm putting him on a flush draw.

Would have bet the turn on the flush & open ended straight draw but he could have repopped you here like he's about to do on the river.

Check, Check, Check, Pot, All-in, fold, fold, fold, ?

If for some damn reason he had the Ace of spades - I don't think he would have run out the other 2 players with an all in bet.

He bets 3 X's the pot leaving you with a decision for $700 and any other player for all of their chips

I would use the all in bet on a busted straight draw , two pair or set here if I suspected that the limpers came along on the straight draw.

I also think he could have bet all in thinking that no one had the nuts and therefore couldn't call. (That's also how I believe this ended)

After he bet, did he look at you, or did he look at the pot or some where else (basically not make eye contact with you). If he's looking at you he missed - you win. He is waiting to get those cards out of his hand and will be watching for your fold so he can do it quickly. If he does have a suited Spade ace - a. I think he would have bet less b. I think he probably would have put his hands on his chin and stared downward hoping and praying that someone would call

Personally I think you had the best hand and he put you on a decision for all of your money. You fold up showing him your 10 high flush and flipped over a busted straight draw or 2 pair.

 

[Woodson]

Very nicely put ctown.

Where I misread the play is on the all in. The value bet would be a better sign of the higher/nut flush. Being an amatuer player, I outthink myself a lot of times.

Nice reveiw and write-up.

Thanks for the thread Marine! :mj06:

 

[Handi Capper]

agree with ctown CALL

i put old-timer on pocket aces or kings