Safer
- Thread starter DOGS THAT BARK
- Start date
kosar said:
You can't shoot back Kosar if you're dead :idea:
keep your head in the sand
Kind of reminds me of all that hand shaking and paper signing before WWII.
Whatever makes you feel good about your opinions. Glad there are some that will take action.
Man, they've done a number on you IO. You actually believe that Iraq was about terrorism, don't you?
You actually feel safer knowing that our military is stretched really thin with most of our best units rebuilding Iraqi bridges and patrolling downtown Baghdad enforcing curfews with no end in sight.
Although it's obviously somewhat of a longshot, do you realize how vulnerable we are right now if somebody (North Korea) wanted to start another war? What a perfect time to do it, in the next few years while practically our whole military is deployed and tired.
You actually feel safer knowing that our military is stretched really thin with most of our best units rebuilding Iraqi bridges and patrolling downtown Baghdad enforcing curfews with no end in sight.
Although it's obviously somewhat of a longshot, do you realize how vulnerable we are right now if somebody (North Korea) wanted to start another war? What a perfect time to do it, in the next few years while practically our whole military is deployed and tired.
I believe in this country.
The US at it supposed "weakness" is more than a match for any other country/countries.
This is not a political rant by me.
It's a fact.
You can stop bringing that up now.
The US at it supposed "weakness" is more than a match for any other country/countries.
This is not a political rant by me.
It's a fact.
You can stop bringing that up now.
I believe in this country also, IO. And nobody has more pride and confidence in our armed forces than I do.
I also know that we ARE vulnerable if we keep all of our best divisions rotting in Iraq for the next 5 years.
This is not a political rant by me either.
This is fact.
I also know that we ARE vulnerable if we keep all of our best divisions rotting in Iraq for the next 5 years.
This is not a political rant by me either.
This is fact.
Open history books and pick a time when it started. In some ways it started when Islam was created and Muslims immediately started hating Jews - because the Koran told 'em to.
Modern history - it started after WW!, when the Ottoman Empire and Persia were sliced up by Britain - WITH THE SPECIFIC INTENTION OF DIVIDING PEOPLES THERE. Iraq is a perfect example - it divided Kurds into Turkey and Iraq - when there should have been a Kurdistan. It lumped 3 cultures together that didn't belog and totally split another one.
Israel - 1948 - Well that wasn't going to help. Do I agree with a state of Israel? Yes, but it was a like hot poker in heart of Islam.
OIL - The biggest reason of all. WE KISS SAUDI ASS, overlook their oppressive regime, and allow them to harbor terrorists.
Lets see, there's also Afghan-Soviet war which we helped arm Osama, there's the way we helped prop up and endorse Saddam as long as he was fighting (and gassing) Iranians.
The hypocracy goes on and on. We blew it - and it will take incredible strides, energy policy changes, and diplomacyto get out of this one without MAJOR $HIT happening.
smurphy said:
Good point..that is EXACTLY what we need, 2 yrs. in the Marines right out of High School
Smurph...as AR182 said, "Its OK to disagree." Or something to that effect. most in here are not trying to demean or attack. Thanks for your posts.
Explaining the Arab-Israeli conflict through numbers
By Dennis Prager
For the many readers who have requested a brief synopsis of the moral arguments in the Arab-Israeli conflict, I offer the following list of numerical data.
Number of times Jerusalem is mentioned in the Hebrew Bible: over 700
Number of times Jerusalem is mentioned in the Koran: 0
Number of Arab leaders who visited Jerusalem when it was under Arab rule (1948 to 1967): 1
Number of Arab refugees who fled the land that became Israel: approximately 600,000
Number of Jewish refugees who fled Arab countries: approximately 600,000
Number of U.N. agencies that deal only with Palestinian refugees: 1
Number of U.N. agencies that deal with all the other refugees in the world: 1
Number of Jewish states that have existed on the land called Palestine: 3
Number of Arab or Muslim states that have existed on the land called Palestine: 0
Number of terrorist attacks by Israelis or Jews since 1967: 1
Number of terrorist attacks by Arabs or Muslims since 1967: thousands
Percentage of Jews who have praised the Jewish terrorist: approximately .1
Percentage of Palestinians who have praised Islamic terrorists: approximately 90
Number of Jewish countries: 1
Number of Jewish democracies: 1
Number of Arab countries: 19
Number of Arab democracies: 0
Number of Arab women killed annually by fathers and brothers in "honor killings": thousands
Number of Jewish women killed annually by fathers and brothers in "honor killings": 0
Number of Christian or Jewish prayer services allowed in Saudi Arabia: 0
Number of Muslim prayer services allowed in Israel: unlimited
Number of Arabs Israel allows to live in Arab settlements in Israel: 1,250,000
Number of Jews Palestinian Authority allows to live in Jewish settlements in Palestinian Authority: 0
Percentage of U.N. Commission on Human Rights resolutions condemning an Arab country for human rights violations: 0
Percentage of U.N. Commission on Human Rights resolutions condemning Israel for human rights violations: 26
Number of U.N. Security Council resolutions on the Middle East between 1948 and 1991: 175
Number of these resolutions against Israel: 97
Number of these resolutions against an Arab state: 4
Number of Arab countries that have been members of the U.N. Security Council: 16
Number of times Israel has been a member of the U.N. Security Council: 0
Number of U.N. General Assembly resolutions condemning Israel: 322
Number of U.N. General Assembly resolutions condemning an Arab country: 0
Percentage of U.N. votes in which Arab countries voted with the United States in 2002: 16.6
Percentage of U.N. votes in which Israel voted with the United States in 2002: 92.6
Percentage of Middle East Studies professors who defend Zionism and Israel: approximately 1.
Percentage of Middle East Studies professors who believe in diversity on college campuses: 100
Percentage of people who argue that the Jewish state has no right to exist who also believe some other country has no right to exist: 0
Percentage of people who argue that of all the countries in the world, only the Jewish state has no right to exist and yet deny they are anti-Jewish: approximately 100
Number of Muslims in the world: more than 1 billion
Number of Muslim demonstrations against Islamic terror: approximately 2
Explaining the Arab-Israeli conflict through numbers
By Dennis Prager
For the many readers who have requested a brief synopsis of the moral arguments in the Arab-Israeli conflict, I offer the following list of numerical data.
Number of times Jerusalem is mentioned in the Hebrew Bible: over 700
Number of times Jerusalem is mentioned in the Koran: 0
Number of Arab leaders who visited Jerusalem when it was under Arab rule (1948 to 1967): 1
Number of Arab refugees who fled the land that became Israel: approximately 600,000
Number of Jewish refugees who fled Arab countries: approximately 600,000
Number of U.N. agencies that deal only with Palestinian refugees: 1
Number of U.N. agencies that deal with all the other refugees in the world: 1
Number of Jewish states that have existed on the land called Palestine: 3
Number of Arab or Muslim states that have existed on the land called Palestine: 0
Number of terrorist attacks by Israelis or Jews since 1967: 1
Number of terrorist attacks by Arabs or Muslims since 1967: thousands
Percentage of Jews who have praised the Jewish terrorist: approximately .1
Percentage of Palestinians who have praised Islamic terrorists: approximately 90
Number of Jewish countries: 1
Number of Jewish democracies: 1
Number of Arab countries: 19
Number of Arab democracies: 0
Number of Arab women killed annually by fathers and brothers in "honor killings": thousands
Number of Jewish women killed annually by fathers and brothers in "honor killings": 0
Number of Christian or Jewish prayer services allowed in Saudi Arabia: 0
Number of Muslim prayer services allowed in Israel: unlimited
Number of Arabs Israel allows to live in Arab settlements in Israel: 1,250,000
Number of Jews Palestinian Authority allows to live in Jewish settlements in Palestinian Authority: 0
Percentage of U.N. Commission on Human Rights resolutions condemning an Arab country for human rights violations: 0
Percentage of U.N. Commission on Human Rights resolutions condemning Israel for human rights violations: 26
Number of U.N. Security Council resolutions on the Middle East between 1948 and 1991: 175
Number of these resolutions against Israel: 97
Number of these resolutions against an Arab state: 4
Number of Arab countries that have been members of the U.N. Security Council: 16
Number of times Israel has been a member of the U.N. Security Council: 0
Number of U.N. General Assembly resolutions condemning Israel: 322
Number of U.N. General Assembly resolutions condemning an Arab country: 0
Percentage of U.N. votes in which Arab countries voted with the United States in 2002: 16.6
Percentage of U.N. votes in which Israel voted with the United States in 2002: 92.6
Percentage of Middle East Studies professors who defend Zionism and Israel: approximately 1.
Percentage of Middle East Studies professors who believe in diversity on college campuses: 100
Percentage of people who argue that the Jewish state has no right to exist who also believe some other country has no right to exist: 0
Percentage of people who argue that of all the countries in the world, only the Jewish state has no right to exist and yet deny they are anti-Jewish: approximately 100
Number of Muslims in the world: more than 1 billion
Number of Muslim demonstrations against Islamic terror: approximately 2
smurphy said:
I had heard it possibly started when the French owned Krakatoa.
I was listening to an interview of Simon Winchester who had written a book on the volcano going off and he went a bit into Islam and what happened there. This, of course, was an event that occured some time ago.
Smurph- Don't ask-Don't tell...j/k.
New N. Korean Missiles Said to Threaten U.S.
Aug. 3, 11:41 AM (ET)
By Mark Trevelyan
BERLIN (Reuters) - North Korea is deploying new land- and sea-based ballistic missiles that can carry nuclear warheads and may have sufficient range to hit the United States, according to the authoritative Jane's Defense Weekly.
In an article due to appear Wednesday, Jane's said the two new systems appeared to be based on a decommissioned Soviet submarine-launched ballistic missile, the R-27.
It said communist North Korea had acquired the know-how during the 1990s from Russian missile specialists and by buying 12 former Soviet submarines which had been sold for scrap metal but retained key elements of their missile launch systems.
Jane's, which did not specify its sources, said the sea-based missile was potentially the more threatening of the two new weapons systems.
"It would fundamentally alter the missile threat posed by the DPRK (Democratic People's Republic of Korea) and could finally provide its leadership with something that it has long sought to obtain -- the ability to directly threaten the continental U.S.," the weekly said.
Apart from targeting the United States, South Korea or Japan, cash-strapped North Korea might seek to sell the technology to countries that have bought its missiles in the past, with Iran a prime candidate, the article added.
Ian Kemp, news editor of Jane's Defense Weekly, said North Korea would only spend the money and effort on developing such missiles if it intended to fit them with nuclear warheads.
"It's pretty certain the North Koreans would not be developing these unless they were intended for weapons of mass destruction warheads, and the nuclear warhead is far and away the most potent of those," he told Reuters.
NUCLEAR POTENTIAL UNCLEAR
North Korea pulled out of the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty in January 2003 and is locked in long-running crisis talks with the United States, China, Russia, Japan and South Korea over terms for scrapping its atomic weapons program.
The extent of that program remains unclear, although North Korea's deputy foreign minister was quoted as telling a senior U.S. official last year that Pyongyang possessed nuclear weapons.
Jane's said the new land-based system had an estimated range of 2,500 to 4,000 km (1,560 to 2,500 miles), and the sea-based system, launchable from a submarine or a ship, had a range of at least 2,500 km.
"If you can get a missile aboard a warship, in particular aboard a submarine...you can move your submarine to strike at targets such as Hawaii or the United States, just as examples. Whereas it would be much more difficult to actually develop a ground-launched missile to achieve that sort of a range," Kemp said.
Until now only the United States, Russia, Britain, France and China have been known to possess submarine-launched nuclear weapons, although there has been speculation that Israel has a similar capability.
Jane's said North Korea appeared to have acquired the R-27 technology from Russian missile experts based in the Urals city of Chelyabinsk. It said one such group was detained in 1992 when about to fly to North Korea, but others visited later.
It said Pyongyang was also helped by the purchase, through a Japanese trading company, of 12 decommissioned Russian Foxtrot-class and Golf II-class submarines which were sold for scrap in 1993.
It said the missiles and electronic firing systems had been removed, but the vessels retained their launch tubes and stabilization sub-systems.
New N. Korean Missiles Said to Threaten U.S.
Aug. 3, 11:41 AM (ET)
By Mark Trevelyan
BERLIN (Reuters) - North Korea is deploying new land- and sea-based ballistic missiles that can carry nuclear warheads and may have sufficient range to hit the United States, according to the authoritative Jane's Defense Weekly.
In an article due to appear Wednesday, Jane's said the two new systems appeared to be based on a decommissioned Soviet submarine-launched ballistic missile, the R-27.
It said communist North Korea had acquired the know-how during the 1990s from Russian missile specialists and by buying 12 former Soviet submarines which had been sold for scrap metal but retained key elements of their missile launch systems.
Jane's, which did not specify its sources, said the sea-based missile was potentially the more threatening of the two new weapons systems.
"It would fundamentally alter the missile threat posed by the DPRK (Democratic People's Republic of Korea) and could finally provide its leadership with something that it has long sought to obtain -- the ability to directly threaten the continental U.S.," the weekly said.
Apart from targeting the United States, South Korea or Japan, cash-strapped North Korea might seek to sell the technology to countries that have bought its missiles in the past, with Iran a prime candidate, the article added.
Ian Kemp, news editor of Jane's Defense Weekly, said North Korea would only spend the money and effort on developing such missiles if it intended to fit them with nuclear warheads.
"It's pretty certain the North Koreans would not be developing these unless they were intended for weapons of mass destruction warheads, and the nuclear warhead is far and away the most potent of those," he told Reuters.
NUCLEAR POTENTIAL UNCLEAR
North Korea pulled out of the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty in January 2003 and is locked in long-running crisis talks with the United States, China, Russia, Japan and South Korea over terms for scrapping its atomic weapons program.
The extent of that program remains unclear, although North Korea's deputy foreign minister was quoted as telling a senior U.S. official last year that Pyongyang possessed nuclear weapons.
Jane's said the new land-based system had an estimated range of 2,500 to 4,000 km (1,560 to 2,500 miles), and the sea-based system, launchable from a submarine or a ship, had a range of at least 2,500 km.
"If you can get a missile aboard a warship, in particular aboard a submarine...you can move your submarine to strike at targets such as Hawaii or the United States, just as examples. Whereas it would be much more difficult to actually develop a ground-launched missile to achieve that sort of a range," Kemp said.
Until now only the United States, Russia, Britain, France and China have been known to possess submarine-launched nuclear weapons, although there has been speculation that Israel has a similar capability.
Jane's said North Korea appeared to have acquired the R-27 technology from Russian missile experts based in the Urals city of Chelyabinsk. It said one such group was detained in 1992 when about to fly to North Korea, but others visited later.
It said Pyongyang was also helped by the purchase, through a Japanese trading company, of 12 decommissioned Russian Foxtrot-class and Golf II-class submarines which were sold for scrap in 1993.
It said the missiles and electronic firing systems had been removed, but the vessels retained their launch tubes and stabilization sub-systems.
Star Wars
Star Wars
Laser gun zaps missile
An infrared detector capture the explosion
A laser gun, described as "the world's first high-energy laser weapon system designed for operational use", has shot down a missile in a test in the US desert.
We've just turned science fiction into reality
Lieutenant General John Costello, US Army Space and Missile Defense Command
The $250m system was built by TRW Corporation for the US and Israeli governments and was tried out at the White Sands missile range, New Mexico, on Tuesday
During the test of the Tactical High Energy Laser (THEL), it tracked a Katyusha rocket with its radar and then destroyed it with its high-powered laser beam.
The system will be delivered to Israel by the autumn and could be used to intercept Katyusha rockets, which have in the past been fired by guerrillas from the Islamic group Hezbollah, based in southern Lebanon.
Israeli pull-out
The need for protection in northern Israel gained added urgency this month when Israeli troops withdrew from the so-called "security zone" they controlled in southern Lebanon.
The laser gun uses radar to track targets
The THEL system stems in part from a commitment President Clinton made in April 1996 to then-Israeli Prime Minister Shimon Peres to aid Israel in developing a security system against rockets.
"This compelling demonstration of THEL's defensive capabilities proves that directed energy weapon systems have the potential to play a significant role in defending US national security interests world-wide," said Lieutenant General John Costello.
Israeli Major General Isaac Ben-Israel said the weapon was "the crucial first step to help protect the communities along our northern border against the kind of devastating rocket attacks we've suffered recently."
A laser is an intense, beam of light, carefully corralled so that the beam does not diverge and weaken. In THEL, the energy is supplied by a controlled chemical reaction.
The laser is a potentially potent weapon as the beam travels literally at the speed of light and can cross great distances with minimal loss of intensity. Such a beam could knock out targets at distances ranging from tens of kilometres to, in theory, thousands of kilometres.
Lasers were behind the space-based missile defence shield idea, labelled "Star Wars", first suggested by US President Ronald Reagan in 1983.
Israel has not said how and when it might deploy THEL and the US Defense Department has said it has no immediate plan to use it with US forces.
The Pentagon is working on a variety of other laser weapon technologies that could be used to shoot down ballistic missiles in flight, although deployment of such weapons is at least a decade away.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The solution= stay one step ahead. This is just one example of the benefits we reap because of our partnership w/ Israel.
Star Wars
Laser gun zaps missile
An infrared detector capture the explosion
A laser gun, described as "the world's first high-energy laser weapon system designed for operational use", has shot down a missile in a test in the US desert.
We've just turned science fiction into reality
Lieutenant General John Costello, US Army Space and Missile Defense Command
The $250m system was built by TRW Corporation for the US and Israeli governments and was tried out at the White Sands missile range, New Mexico, on Tuesday
During the test of the Tactical High Energy Laser (THEL), it tracked a Katyusha rocket with its radar and then destroyed it with its high-powered laser beam.
The system will be delivered to Israel by the autumn and could be used to intercept Katyusha rockets, which have in the past been fired by guerrillas from the Islamic group Hezbollah, based in southern Lebanon.
Israeli pull-out
The need for protection in northern Israel gained added urgency this month when Israeli troops withdrew from the so-called "security zone" they controlled in southern Lebanon.
The laser gun uses radar to track targets
The THEL system stems in part from a commitment President Clinton made in April 1996 to then-Israeli Prime Minister Shimon Peres to aid Israel in developing a security system against rockets.
"This compelling demonstration of THEL's defensive capabilities proves that directed energy weapon systems have the potential to play a significant role in defending US national security interests world-wide," said Lieutenant General John Costello.
Israeli Major General Isaac Ben-Israel said the weapon was "the crucial first step to help protect the communities along our northern border against the kind of devastating rocket attacks we've suffered recently."
A laser is an intense, beam of light, carefully corralled so that the beam does not diverge and weaken. In THEL, the energy is supplied by a controlled chemical reaction.
The laser is a potentially potent weapon as the beam travels literally at the speed of light and can cross great distances with minimal loss of intensity. Such a beam could knock out targets at distances ranging from tens of kilometres to, in theory, thousands of kilometres.
Lasers were behind the space-based missile defence shield idea, labelled "Star Wars", first suggested by US President Ronald Reagan in 1983.
Israel has not said how and when it might deploy THEL and the US Defense Department has said it has no immediate plan to use it with US forces.
The Pentagon is working on a variety of other laser weapon technologies that could be used to shoot down ballistic missiles in flight, although deployment of such weapons is at least a decade away.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The solution= stay one step ahead. This is just one example of the benefits we reap because of our partnership w/ Israel.
Smurph- that was just kidding on my part. You bring a lot to the forum IMO. I don't really like either candidate and I think a vote for Nader is wasted and that, Yes...Gasp, GDubya is the lesser of two evils-or misguided ppl as N. Douglas would say. I also hear the Demoncrats say they are the most unified they have been in years- that may be true, but I think its more from hating Bush than for advancing Kerry.
I poke fun@ some, but try not to be mean spirited. I lean towards the conservatives, but we all have those on the fringe, i.e., http://www.newsday.com/news/politic...24,print.story?coll=sns-ap-politics-headlines
Hard for me to believe this in 2004. :cursin:
I poke fun@ some, but try not to be mean spirited. I lean towards the conservatives, but we all have those on the fringe, i.e., http://www.newsday.com/news/politic...24,print.story?coll=sns-ap-politics-headlines
Hard for me to believe this in 2004. :cursin:
I got ya. Thanks.It's basically true. But there are moderates like me who don't hate Bush - just have weighed the issues and decided Kerry was a preferred change.Chanman said:
I enjoy good discussions and I can't wait for the election, so that either way - I CAN SHUT UP. I'm sure others would like that too.
:142lmao:
Here ia a welcomed ally on fight against terror teaming up with Pakistan--would be nice if we could get them to handle all trials of terrorists
I also of a very strong opinion when chips are down they will be deciding factor in our favor vs N Korea--I think now they straddle the fence for leverage on Taiwan issue. Would be interesting to know what goes on behind the scenes.
http://sg.news.yahoo.com/040804/1/3m6r0.html
I also of a very strong opinion when chips are down they will be deciding factor in our favor vs N Korea--I think now they straddle the fence for leverage on Taiwan issue. Would be interesting to know what goes on behind the scenes.
http://sg.news.yahoo.com/040804/1/3m6r0.html
Things not looking so good for terrorist of late.Yet another today!
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=578&e=3&u=/nm/20040807/ts_nm/security_pakistan_dc
Wonder when the french and germany are going to join this fight----probably waiting for Kerry to bring this great fighting force together again
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=578&e=3&u=/nm/20040807/ts_nm/security_pakistan_dc
Wonder when the french and germany are going to join this fight----probably waiting for Kerry to bring this great fighting force together again
Well it would be nice if more would join instead of pack up and go home. Even tho I must admit the small forces that joined in could have stayed home to start with. Only real other force there other then our own is England. We will be stuck In Iraq losing folks another 3/4 years at the rate it's going. Just lost 5 more in last 3 days. Somehow we just aren't getting it done right. I don't know if it's Rummys fault. Or as so many say there is just not enough help there to do it right.
Last edited:
