This guy who was part of group that raped Iraq girl and burned her family. Was from same company of two soldiers that were captured and were found cut up. Was this pay back public tv news is asking. Anyone here got more on this?
Soldier Who Raped?
- Thread starter djv
- Start date
Now 5 soldiers in hot seat for this act of stupidity. We want to be different. Live by higher standard then those bastards that go around beheading folks. This is sad it happened. And hurts all our guy serving over there. I hope we hang a couple if there guilty to show we are different.
What's blurry about plotting a rape of a 16 year old and murdering her and her family? They were not insurgents - they were a respected family of the area. This ringleader Steve Green or whatever his name is needs to be put to death.
This is was loses wars. How can any Iraqi be greatful for anything we do when something like this happens.
This is was loses wars. How can any Iraqi be greatful for anything we do when something like this happens.
Gonna side with Smurph---Hard enough to gain trust of civilians when stuff like that happens--which I am assuming it did--
Hypothetical--Assuming for a minute that their buddies were captured and cut up--and this family was in someway responsible for act--the fact that rape was involved would make me skeptical to revenge motive.
I think best solution on matters like this would be for U.S. to handle all trials and punishment but have it appear if nothing else that Iraqi's are part of the process. Throughout the war there will be some quity and some innocent--and we need confirmation to Iragi people on both--just my 2 cents.
I think back to few years ago when soilders in South Korea accidently ran over and killed two young Korean girls--this accident--caused such an uproar and dissent it actually turned the election of Korean Pres whose pro america runner had very significant lead in polls prior to actually losing election by thinnest of margins in the aftermath.
Hypothetical--Assuming for a minute that their buddies were captured and cut up--and this family was in someway responsible for act--the fact that rape was involved would make me skeptical to revenge motive.
I think best solution on matters like this would be for U.S. to handle all trials and punishment but have it appear if nothing else that Iraqi's are part of the process. Throughout the war there will be some quity and some innocent--and we need confirmation to Iragi people on both--just my 2 cents.
I think back to few years ago when soilders in South Korea accidently ran over and killed two young Korean girls--this accident--caused such an uproar and dissent it actually turned the election of Korean Pres whose pro america runner had very significant lead in polls prior to actually losing election by thinnest of margins in the aftermath.
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not condoning it....obviously....but,before anybody goes crazy on some isolated acts of apparently deranged american soldiers,take a gander at the videos of the 2 american soldiers that were decapitated and mutilated.....might put into context the reason why a small handful of young americans can snap under this type of pressure....
if true,these guys will be prosecuted...this is not u.s. policy...
on the other hand,take a look at what these monsters did to our soldiers....
this IS their policy...it`s their religion...
i wish the executive boards of c.a.i.r. the aclu, human rights watch and amnesty international could be compelled to watch it while president bush, rice and rumsfeld were in the room with them....
then have bush tell them, "next time you want to talk about "prisoner abuse" I had better have seen prominent writings by each of you, as well as television interviews with each of you, condemning this kind of atrocity, this treatment of
prisoners, otherwise we'll have no further discussions with you"...
..i warn you it`s nasty........but,we need to see this stuff...just like we need to see the films of our fellow citizens jumping out of the wtc....
http://mypetjawa.mu.nu/archives/183865.php
jack..if want to delete the link,go right ahead...i understand.....
i just think that some don`t get the fact that we`re fighting pure evil....
no moral relativism here......it doesn`t exist...
if true,these guys will be prosecuted...this is not u.s. policy...
on the other hand,take a look at what these monsters did to our soldiers....
this IS their policy...it`s their religion...
i wish the executive boards of c.a.i.r. the aclu, human rights watch and amnesty international could be compelled to watch it while president bush, rice and rumsfeld were in the room with them....
then have bush tell them, "next time you want to talk about "prisoner abuse" I had better have seen prominent writings by each of you, as well as television interviews with each of you, condemning this kind of atrocity, this treatment of
prisoners, otherwise we'll have no further discussions with you"...
..i warn you it`s nasty........but,we need to see this stuff...just like we need to see the films of our fellow citizens jumping out of the wtc....
http://mypetjawa.mu.nu/archives/183865.php
jack..if want to delete the link,go right ahead...i understand.....
i just think that some don`t get the fact that we`re fighting pure evil....
no moral relativism here......it doesn`t exist...
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Saw today where the terrorist said they did this in reprisal to the rape--and saw another story where rape/murder was done in resprisal to the terrorists acts.
Someones lying--Anyone have timeline/dates of both events.
Yep GW --if we capture those responsible for the soildiers death I hope we are smart enough to turn em over to someone else--before these activist demand attorneys--prayer facilities--ect--and would hate to give NYT 43 more days of exposure if by chance some one humiliated them.
Someones lying--Anyone have timeline/dates of both events.
Yep GW --if we capture those responsible for the soildiers death I hope we are smart enough to turn em over to someone else--before these activist demand attorneys--prayer facilities--ect--and would hate to give NYT 43 more days of exposure if by chance some one humiliated them.
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Does it matter what the time line was ? We are at war. People get murdered and raped in all wars. As long as we are there, atrocities will be committed against us and by us. That's just the way it is. Our soldiers are not robots, I don't care how much training and leadership they are under . In combat some people break down, the mind snaps and people do things that they wouldn't usually do. When you sign on for a war you sigh on for acts like this; if know one gets murdered or raped,then you have a story, then you have something to talk about.DOGS THAT BARK said:
"Does it matter what the time line was ?"
Sure does to me--The terrorist released that they did this in relaliation when if in fact it was done prior to event--it would discount a lot of their propaganda.
Agree 100% doesn't make any diff on what happened.
Sure does to me--The terrorist released that they did this in relaliation when if in fact it was done prior to event--it would discount a lot of their propaganda.
Agree 100% doesn't make any diff on what happened.
They plotted and planned the rape and murder of a 16 year old girl and her family!
If this is what our war has come to, then it's lost. Why the fvckj didnt we just leave Saddam there?
Amazing that anyone here excuses this at all. ...."Fog of war" bullshlt, "I'm not condoning it, but..." nonsense.
Rape and murder of a girl! Period!
If this is what our war has come to, then it's lost. Why the fvckj didnt we just leave Saddam there?
Amazing that anyone here excuses this at all. ...."Fog of war" bullshlt, "I'm not condoning it, but..." nonsense.
Rape and murder of a girl! Period!
Bullshit! Look what the terrorist have done to our soldiers... These guys will be prosecuted for these outrageous crimes committed against this family. But who the fawk cares if they were from a prominent family... Do you really think the soldiers over there can distinguish a family from a terrorist???
Smurphy I doubt you have ever fought in a war, you have NO idea what's going over there. All you can do is sit and judge these acts by sitting on your couch and watching the news. These 18-20 year old soldiers have seen there friends brutally murdered and ambushed by terrorist all over Iraq.
I don't condone what they have done, but it's simply not black and white when you have seen some of the s h i t these soldiers have seen on a daily basis.
Smurphy I doubt you have ever fought in a war, you have NO idea what's going over there. All you can do is sit and judge these acts by sitting on your couch and watching the news. These 18-20 year old soldiers have seen there friends brutally murdered and ambushed by terrorist all over Iraq.
I don't condone what they have done, but it's simply not black and white when you have seen some of the s h i t these soldiers have seen on a daily basis.
OK Diapers, educate me. What wars did you fight and what happened?
Yeah, I shouldn't judge a guy who raped and murdered a girl. We should let all rapists and murders go because - who are we to judge what they've gone through?
If you condone that action, then you are also condoning the nasty actions of the vermin enemy. In which case, I ask again - what was the point of "liberating" them at all? I thought there was supposed to be a reason for all this, not just a swapping of evil actions. Hell, we could have left Saddam there if that was our goal.
Yeah, I shouldn't judge a guy who raped and murdered a girl. We should let all rapists and murders go because - who are we to judge what they've gone through?
If you condone that action, then you are also condoning the nasty actions of the vermin enemy. In which case, I ask again - what was the point of "liberating" them at all? I thought there was supposed to be a reason for all this, not just a swapping of evil actions. Hell, we could have left Saddam there if that was our goal.
smurphy said:
LOL - Yeah I condone rapist and murderours that's why I said they should all be prosecuted. I love how all of you communist liberals take what someone says and take it to the extreme opposite.
I have never fought in a war that's why I won't judge them like you so conviently do. These are 18 and 19 year old kids who have seen some awful things happen to their company. I love how you weep for this family, yet critize why were over there and all of the American soldiers how have died in Iraq.
smurphy?...of all people...some good advice: don`t go back to iceland.......
did you check out the link?....
do you get the concept that IF this girl was raped and murdered by american soldiers,that they will be prosecuted....and that the u.s.....the military.....and every american comdemn these atrocities?.........
this was an aberration...not a tactic....there are no religions or governments in the contemporary western world that espouse butchery for the sake of butchery.....
not one f-cking indignant word from you on the butchery of our boys?....of the murder of over a hundred indians on commuter trains?.....the blowing up of hotels,markets,civilian buses,school children....the decapitation of innocents?....
this is the attitude that we face in this country....this is a perfect example of the problem....
traditionally,those who masquerade as civilians...that hide behind civilians...in order to kill legal combatants(and civilians),have been executed promptly,without trial....
not in this multi-culti, politically correct mess of a society that we now have to live in...
severity,not your sloppy leftist pandering, kept warfare within some decent bounds ,at least part of the time...
we have reached the point at which the rules apply ONLY TO US,while our enemies are permitted unrestricted freedom to do whatever the hell they please.....including murdering civilians WITH IMPUNITY.....in india..britain,iraq,sudan,attempts even in canada...murdering school children in russia....i can`t list them all...
the media?....7 or 8 mentions in the washington post about our soldiers being mutilated since it happened......almost 200 involving abu gharaib,haditha and the rape of the iraqi girl....
fair and balanced?....
this attitude encourages the monsters to behave any way they choose....while crippling our atempts to deal with terror...
now,the supreme court,in their ivory tower,have given these animals geneva convention protections.....a slap in every american`s face...
i`d bet that the military would rather that these monsters be set free in iraq...than let them loose in our liberal legal system....
better to fight them in fallujah than have the supreme court order them admitted to yale...
yeah,i know,i`m not in iraq...blah,blah blah...
yeah,i know,you support the troops...blah,blah,blah....
all the rest of you...that have that doohickey that sets between your ears working at full capacity,understand this fact....
"the extreme left believes that the quickest way to end a war is to lose it...if you hamper the war effort of one side,you automatically help out the other.....elementary common sense"/george orwell.....
how could orwell know this back in the day?..a very smart man...he knew that some things never change...
if you remember nothing else,remember orwell`s quote....common sense...
did you check out the link?....
do you get the concept that IF this girl was raped and murdered by american soldiers,that they will be prosecuted....and that the u.s.....the military.....and every american comdemn these atrocities?.........
this was an aberration...not a tactic....there are no religions or governments in the contemporary western world that espouse butchery for the sake of butchery.....
not one f-cking indignant word from you on the butchery of our boys?....of the murder of over a hundred indians on commuter trains?.....the blowing up of hotels,markets,civilian buses,school children....the decapitation of innocents?....
this is the attitude that we face in this country....this is a perfect example of the problem....
traditionally,those who masquerade as civilians...that hide behind civilians...in order to kill legal combatants(and civilians),have been executed promptly,without trial....
not in this multi-culti, politically correct mess of a society that we now have to live in...
severity,not your sloppy leftist pandering, kept warfare within some decent bounds ,at least part of the time...
we have reached the point at which the rules apply ONLY TO US,while our enemies are permitted unrestricted freedom to do whatever the hell they please.....including murdering civilians WITH IMPUNITY.....in india..britain,iraq,sudan,attempts even in canada...murdering school children in russia....i can`t list them all...
the media?....7 or 8 mentions in the washington post about our soldiers being mutilated since it happened......almost 200 involving abu gharaib,haditha and the rape of the iraqi girl....
fair and balanced?....
this attitude encourages the monsters to behave any way they choose....while crippling our atempts to deal with terror...
now,the supreme court,in their ivory tower,have given these animals geneva convention protections.....a slap in every american`s face...
i`d bet that the military would rather that these monsters be set free in iraq...than let them loose in our liberal legal system....
better to fight them in fallujah than have the supreme court order them admitted to yale...
yeah,i know,i`m not in iraq...blah,blah blah...
yeah,i know,you support the troops...blah,blah,blah....
all the rest of you...that have that doohickey that sets between your ears working at full capacity,understand this fact....
"the extreme left believes that the quickest way to end a war is to lose it...if you hamper the war effort of one side,you automatically help out the other.....elementary common sense"/george orwell.....
how could orwell know this back in the day?..a very smart man...he knew that some things never change...
if you remember nothing else,remember orwell`s quote....common sense...
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One side of the mouth: These are the most vile, disgusting, despicable, evil animals and they have been for a billion years. The middle east is an intractable cesspool and will always be crawling with beheading fools who don't, and never will, play by the rules. Sick f*ckers. They will be blowing themselves and each other up until the end of time.
Other side of mouth: Hey, let's stay the course, we can change them and will soon usher in an era of peace and prosperity! Oh, except in Palestine, those dudes are hopeless.
Other side of mouth: Hey, let's stay the course, we can change them and will soon usher in an era of peace and prosperity! Oh, except in Palestine, those dudes are hopeless.
kosar said:
"there you go again"........lol
disagree with the war...disagree with the idea that spreading democracy is a good idea...that democracies have never in history waged war with one another....
o.k....that`s your prerogative....
but,we have to change them...don`t you think?....
or,do the canadians deserve to have their civilians butchered on their way to work?...do the non-muslim sudanese deserve to be wiped out?....the hindus?...
that cess-pool you speak of is turning into an ocean.....
we`re there..like it or not....and if iraq is given to them on a silver platter,how does that help the cause?
unless your cause is to assist in our defeat....
Spreading democracy? Is that what you call it when a terror organization is voted into office? Or how about when a government closely aligned with Iran is voyed in and is pushing for Sharia Law and will be run by Mullahs ? Those are the only democracies that we've 'spread.' Nice job.
Is that what our young men and women are dying for?
lol- is this some joke or a trick question? You can't be this naive. We can bang our head against the wall for 200 years over there and we will never 'change them.' Call me racist, or whatever, but good ol' America waltzing in isn't going to change thousands of years of ingrained attitude. Come on, brother, W and his arrogance thinking we can 'change them' is the exact reason we're in this mess to begin with. Staying the course is not going to change anything.
Saddam and his kids are gone. An elected government is in place and ratified. Supposedly 250,000 iraqi security guys are trained.
At what point would you say, 'yeah, let's bring 'em home?' Serious question. There will not be any point where we 'won' or where we 'lost.' There is no country that we're fighting. The bombings and deaths of our troops will never end. So seriously, what would be a sign to you that we should leave?
Is that what our young men and women are dying for?
lol- is this some joke or a trick question? You can't be this naive. We can bang our head against the wall for 200 years over there and we will never 'change them.' Call me racist, or whatever, but good ol' America waltzing in isn't going to change thousands of years of ingrained attitude. Come on, brother, W and his arrogance thinking we can 'change them' is the exact reason we're in this mess to begin with. Staying the course is not going to change anything.
Saddam and his kids are gone. An elected government is in place and ratified. Supposedly 250,000 iraqi security guys are trained.
At what point would you say, 'yeah, let's bring 'em home?' Serious question. There will not be any point where we 'won' or where we 'lost.' There is no country that we're fighting. The bombings and deaths of our troops will never end. So seriously, what would be a sign to you that we should leave?
kosar....i know you want me to go back to the "why we invaded iraq argument"...i`ve made that clear to you and every other left wing marxist/ bush hater on this site...
you`re rudder seems to continually steer toward the same thing....maybe you have a bad memory...
if that`s not a democracy in iraq,why is al qaeda fighting us there...and not here in the states?....
it may not be a western style democracy.....but it isn`t sharia,either....
you don`t think it`s important...but,the sunni`s,al qaeda and iran seem to be very serious about the outcome....
and they love and appreciate your unbrideled support...
this should be a lesson to you self-loathing liberals.....islamofacism is not an islam vs. the west, islam vs. the u.s., islam vs. christian or islam vs. secularism thing......
it is islam vs. everybody else....
look at thailand, the phillipines, and india.....
the "other side" is not western, christian, or american in these disputes.....
it`s looking like the only people with the stomachs to take down the islamofacists are some of the south american drug lords/drug gangs.....
or dan dority on hbo`s deadwood....
we all get why the sunnis are pissed...but,if it`s a sharia gov`t(which it obviously isn`t),why is alqaeda,zarqawi and iran fighting like hell to undermine the gov`t?....
back on topic...keep harping on abu gharaib,haditha,and the "few" american miscues in the war...
lets keep bashing bush on the war...and forget about the larger picture...
i`ll be back...i`m not done on this...
you`re rudder seems to continually steer toward the same thing....maybe you have a bad memory...
if that`s not a democracy in iraq,why is al qaeda fighting us there...and not here in the states?....
it may not be a western style democracy.....but it isn`t sharia,either....
you don`t think it`s important...but,the sunni`s,al qaeda and iran seem to be very serious about the outcome....
and they love and appreciate your unbrideled support...
this should be a lesson to you self-loathing liberals.....islamofacism is not an islam vs. the west, islam vs. the u.s., islam vs. christian or islam vs. secularism thing......
it is islam vs. everybody else....
look at thailand, the phillipines, and india.....
the "other side" is not western, christian, or american in these disputes.....
it`s looking like the only people with the stomachs to take down the islamofacists are some of the south american drug lords/drug gangs.....
or dan dority on hbo`s deadwood....
we all get why the sunnis are pissed...but,if it`s a sharia gov`t(which it obviously isn`t),why is alqaeda,zarqawi and iran fighting like hell to undermine the gov`t?....
back on topic...keep harping on abu gharaib,haditha,and the "few" american miscues in the war...
lets keep bashing bush on the war...and forget about the larger picture...
i`ll be back...i`m not done on this...
gardenweasel said:
Dority is a bad, bad motherf*cker. I haven't been left so squeamish by a show in a long time since Sunday.
As for Saul's post, I'm not speaking for him but I read it as being outraged at the fact that several in here were seemingly OK with the fact (assuming it happened) that a 16yo girl was raped, and then killed along with her family. Just because people here are outraged at what happens to some of our military guys doesn't mean they have to condone it when something like this happens.
gardenweasel said:
No I don't. Your answer on that has been long noted. I'm on to more topical issues. For instance, at what point would you consider this thing to be over? Never? When the Iraqi government asks us to leave? When they stop shooting at us? What?
As mentioned above, we've deposed Saddam and killed his sons. There is a ratified government. It will never be stable there, so what's the hold up?
You act as if Al-qaeda as a whole has gathered in Iraq and we're shooting fish in a barrel. It's the other way around, if anything. We've given them their chance, a fresh start with an elected government. We can argue forever whether even that was worth it, but it happened at whatever cost.
With Iran and NK rattling their sabres, we need to regroup, get our troops some rest and relaxation, give our worn out (according to the military itself) equipment some rest and replacement...and see what happens next. Our troops aren't robots. Many are on their 2nd and 3rd tours. Our reservists are deployed in record numbers. Yeah, yeah, I know, they signed up for it. That doesn't mean you have to push them to reckless levels.
IMO, our 'mission', such that it was, is completed. As mentioned, there is no such thing as winning and losing in this 'war.'
I guess I don't get this one. I understand the illogical talking point about 'fight 'em there so they don't come here', but I don't understand how that is the litmus test on whether that is a democracy that we want down the road.
We have no idea if it will develop into sharia or not after we leave. What we do know is that it is closely aligned with Iran. Does that really make you feel safer?
lol- ummm, yeah, I think it goes without saying that any of those entities are fighting for control. Hence, their seriousness. I think the other names for it are sectarian violence and civil war. Us staying there won't change that.
Christ, brother, I don't know *who* has my support. The choices are all so tempting. The front runners are the shia though, they deserve some revenge I guess. I'll keep you informed if that changes.
You know you're gonna get it when the 'self-loathing liberals' term gets busted out.
Yeah, i've heard. Not sure what that has to do with us staying in Iraq.
Islamofacists? You mean like the new Iraqi government? The one who is gonna play nice and play the part until we leave? Well, except for the death squads and all.
Never saw the show, but your pop culture references, while often humorous, are sometimes to oblique for me.
Iran isn't trying to undermine the government, or at least not the Shia. You might say that they are actually supporting the majority of the government, in their own way.
I've never once mentioned Abu Ghraib or Haditha other than noting how much you and others whine about the media coverage.
Yes, let's do that. The larger picture down the road requires our worn out troops to do other things rather than patrol Baghdad and chase ghosts.
Keep making threats like that and we're gonna have a problem.
