Teachers - back to school
- Thread starter TBONEZ0295
- Start date
Worm-
It very difficult to argue points that you make, simply because they an be made in absolutely every profession. I know many lawyers that really do not work, I know many doctors that see patients 2 days a week, I know laborers that really only hustle at the job when the foreman is around...so to argue that point that would be quite funny. Especailly someone that is a section President for Mensa. Correct me if I am wrong but, Mensa really provides a forum for intellectual exchange among members. I don't know if I would call your post an intellectual exchange, more of a condescending dribble.
Feel free to speak to down us that are educated as well as those that may not be fortunate or have chosen other paths to reach their own persoanl success. Remember though I have went through the post graduate work with high honors and do carry a M. Ed. (Mensa member, no way doesn't fit my personality.)
To understand unions you must understand that the NEA really only does the lobbying on teacher's behalf on a National level, and we unforatunately pay them more sometimes than we receive. But strikes etc., are controlled by the local union that runs each specific district. Whether you are for unions or against them, they do provide a sounding board and a single voice for many educators, and quite often we are as frustrated with them ourselves as we are with posts like this. Ignorance IMO breeds ignorance.
Can you tell me of someone who realistically works 51 weeks out of the year. Most people tenured in their postions can easily receive up to 2 months of vacation time, equal to what they receive but with less pay. Not to mention since we cannot use vacation days, since there are none during the year, and you or your family (kids) get ill and you use up your 6-7 days of sick time, you out of your own paycheck end up paying for the substitute teacher to fill your absent days. We don't have the luxury of not just coming in...we just get penalized. (I know I am speaking like a teacher, although I am out of the profession, the points still remain the same. My wife is still in education as well...just to clarify.)
As for the greedy, self-righteous comments, I am sure you are able to site legitimate instances. Please verify those and let your voice be heard... those are comments not taken very lightly and come off as if you fully understand the situation so I look forward to your examples so that we may further examine them. Surely a Mensa individual understands the concept of validity.
It very difficult to argue points that you make, simply because they an be made in absolutely every profession. I know many lawyers that really do not work, I know many doctors that see patients 2 days a week, I know laborers that really only hustle at the job when the foreman is around...so to argue that point that would be quite funny. Especailly someone that is a section President for Mensa. Correct me if I am wrong but, Mensa really provides a forum for intellectual exchange among members. I don't know if I would call your post an intellectual exchange, more of a condescending dribble.
Feel free to speak to down us that are educated as well as those that may not be fortunate or have chosen other paths to reach their own persoanl success. Remember though I have went through the post graduate work with high honors and do carry a M. Ed. (Mensa member, no way doesn't fit my personality.)
To understand unions you must understand that the NEA really only does the lobbying on teacher's behalf on a National level, and we unforatunately pay them more sometimes than we receive. But strikes etc., are controlled by the local union that runs each specific district. Whether you are for unions or against them, they do provide a sounding board and a single voice for many educators, and quite often we are as frustrated with them ourselves as we are with posts like this. Ignorance IMO breeds ignorance.
Can you tell me of someone who realistically works 51 weeks out of the year. Most people tenured in their postions can easily receive up to 2 months of vacation time, equal to what they receive but with less pay. Not to mention since we cannot use vacation days, since there are none during the year, and you or your family (kids) get ill and you use up your 6-7 days of sick time, you out of your own paycheck end up paying for the substitute teacher to fill your absent days. We don't have the luxury of not just coming in...we just get penalized. (I know I am speaking like a teacher, although I am out of the profession, the points still remain the same. My wife is still in education as well...just to clarify.)
As for the greedy, self-righteous comments, I am sure you are able to site legitimate instances. Please verify those and let your voice be heard... those are comments not taken very lightly and come off as if you fully understand the situation so I look forward to your examples so that we may further examine them. Surely a Mensa individual understands the concept of validity.
sorry I did not edit my mistakes like you did saint-ok let me get this straight-as we are not known to each other personally it is hard for me to accept some of your statement but.......
Saint- I have a tissue for your mother to cry into
Dog dace-you spelled unfortunate wrong(saint will be pissed)
I also know hundreds of people who work 51 week-52 weeks a year and never complain.
As far as morons with a 140 IQ-I guess it depends on what you consider a moron
greedy is a teacher who stikes for more $-gets a new 5 year contract and in the 3 rd year strikes for more $ again
any other qestions?
Saint- I have a tissue for your mother to cry into
Dog dace-you spelled unfortunate wrong(saint will be pissed)
I also know hundreds of people who work 51 week-52 weeks a year and never complain.
As far as morons with a 140 IQ-I guess it depends on what you consider a moron
greedy is a teacher who stikes for more $-gets a new 5 year contract and in the 3 rd year strikes for more $ again
any other qestions?
TBONEZ-
If it has to be personal, that;'s ok. But my point was that knowledge is key in this argument, and you did not and still appear IMO to not be educated in this matter.
As for this:
You couldn't be more wrong in that assumption. As a matter of fact we are in the Large schools category 2000+ enrollment and we not only academically have the highest ratio for National Merit Scholors, we are also ranked every year competing for said championships. With several going on to the next level with full rides. Not partials but full rides.
Not quite sure why that would be natural. I had a wonderful relationship with administration, and believe it or not they are not union. The were often fighting for the exact same thing we were. I taught in a district where it was predominantly caucasian and wealthy. Meaning a majority of my students came from housing that went 1.2 million plus in a gated community, but that still wasn't enough of a tax base to support the goings on in the HS. I never taught with new textbooks, as a matter of fact I personally put about a $1000 a year of my own money in classrom materials for the benefit of my students, and you complain about $500 in a raise in tuition.
The above may raise a question then that is mismanagement of funds, well that isn't a teacher dilemma now is it? Admin..maybe, district maybe....both definitely. But let's look in deeper. When budgets are forecast they are on fuzzy numbers, so the price of heating oil goes up...we can't go out and sell anything so where do those EXTRA funds come from. Technologically all schools are using systems and programs that are outdated by years, and te district cannot afford contract for mainitenance of said systems. SO where does the extra money come from to pay for that. Unusually dry summer, how do we keep the playing surface and turf up to quality when unfortunate whether conditions dictated that extra work be done on them. The expense will be more than budgeted. Unusually hot spring and fall, extra cash for air conditioning is needed. Fire alarms pulled, who pays for the FD call to the schools...etc, etc. I could go on but I think you get the picture. So much more to it than Teachers go to work to save our FB players season.
I feel sorry for all the VB players, Soccer players, and coaches that needed the extra income, and budgeted for it...it's just a much larger issue than it was being trivialized in your first post. Why? Becasue it wasn't rooted in anything other than an in uneducated opinion. Yes we can all have an opinion, but if it's not rooted on fact you become one of the ungrateful sporting parent's that continut to ask the question "Why doesn't my son play more or start?" when they have no clue about the sport and I give them the absolute truth..."Well ma'am, I really don't want to see him get hurt!"
If it has to be personal, that;'s ok. But my point was that knowledge is key in this argument, and you did not and still appear IMO to not be educated in this matter.
As for this:
You couldn't be more wrong in that assumption. As a matter of fact we are in the Large schools category 2000+ enrollment and we not only academically have the highest ratio for National Merit Scholors, we are also ranked every year competing for said championships. With several going on to the next level with full rides. Not partials but full rides.
Not quite sure why that would be natural. I had a wonderful relationship with administration, and believe it or not they are not union. The were often fighting for the exact same thing we were. I taught in a district where it was predominantly caucasian and wealthy. Meaning a majority of my students came from housing that went 1.2 million plus in a gated community, but that still wasn't enough of a tax base to support the goings on in the HS. I never taught with new textbooks, as a matter of fact I personally put about a $1000 a year of my own money in classrom materials for the benefit of my students, and you complain about $500 in a raise in tuition.
The above may raise a question then that is mismanagement of funds, well that isn't a teacher dilemma now is it? Admin..maybe, district maybe....both definitely. But let's look in deeper. When budgets are forecast they are on fuzzy numbers, so the price of heating oil goes up...we can't go out and sell anything so where do those EXTRA funds come from. Technologically all schools are using systems and programs that are outdated by years, and te district cannot afford contract for mainitenance of said systems. SO where does the extra money come from to pay for that. Unusually dry summer, how do we keep the playing surface and turf up to quality when unfortunate whether conditions dictated that extra work be done on them. The expense will be more than budgeted. Unusually hot spring and fall, extra cash for air conditioning is needed. Fire alarms pulled, who pays for the FD call to the schools...etc, etc. I could go on but I think you get the picture. So much more to it than Teachers go to work to save our FB players season.
I feel sorry for all the VB players, Soccer players, and coaches that needed the extra income, and budgeted for it...it's just a much larger issue than it was being trivialized in your first post. Why? Becasue it wasn't rooted in anything other than an in uneducated opinion. Yes we can all have an opinion, but if it's not rooted on fact you become one of the ungrateful sporting parent's that continut to ask the question "Why doesn't my son play more or start?" when they have no clue about the sport and I give them the absolute truth..."Well ma'am, I really don't want to see him get hurt!"
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Like many other professions..... teaching can be the hardest job in the world, or the easiest job in the world.
I never taught. Worked as a coach and interacted with the teachers. My GF teaches. She puts a lot of time in, many others don't. Coaches put a lot of time in, too, for peanuts (atleast around here).
I don't think any teacher is in it for the money. That goes without saying. But some are in it because you can slide by.
Others work their tails off because they love it. God bless them.
I think it is hard to make an overriding statement about the subject because there is such a difference from one teacher to the next. We faced a similar situation when I was at a school.... The teachers can't strike here, but they decided to "work to the rule." For many, it was no different than what they did. For others, it is impossible to quit at the bell -- if they don't get the job done, who will pick them up? Nobody. Same with the coaches -- if they even considered not doing the extra work every day, it doesn't hurt the school or the system, it killsthe kids and players, so that's unfair. Biggest thing is that good teachers and good coaches are appreciated by the students. The kids know who you are and when the shit hits the fan they'd run through a brick wall for you. That's respect and that's what its all about..... the teachers that just slide by don't understand that and never will. (By shit hit the fan I mean when something needs to get done or you need to tell the students to behave at a certain time or whatever.... they can make you look great if they want; and will do so if they respect you)
But really, teaching can be the easiest job in the world or the hardest job in the world.... depends on why you are doing it and what you want to accomplish with the students. Those that take it seriously need to be commended and compensated more.
I never taught. Worked as a coach and interacted with the teachers. My GF teaches. She puts a lot of time in, many others don't. Coaches put a lot of time in, too, for peanuts (atleast around here).
I don't think any teacher is in it for the money. That goes without saying. But some are in it because you can slide by.
Others work their tails off because they love it. God bless them.
I think it is hard to make an overriding statement about the subject because there is such a difference from one teacher to the next. We faced a similar situation when I was at a school.... The teachers can't strike here, but they decided to "work to the rule." For many, it was no different than what they did. For others, it is impossible to quit at the bell -- if they don't get the job done, who will pick them up? Nobody. Same with the coaches -- if they even considered not doing the extra work every day, it doesn't hurt the school or the system, it killsthe kids and players, so that's unfair. Biggest thing is that good teachers and good coaches are appreciated by the students. The kids know who you are and when the shit hits the fan they'd run through a brick wall for you. That's respect and that's what its all about..... the teachers that just slide by don't understand that and never will. (By shit hit the fan I mean when something needs to get done or you need to tell the students to behave at a certain time or whatever.... they can make you look great if they want; and will do so if they respect you)
But really, teaching can be the easiest job in the world or the hardest job in the world.... depends on why you are doing it and what you want to accomplish with the students. Those that take it seriously need to be commended and compensated more.
worm44 said:
I completely agree AGAIN
you guys its not about how hard KOSAR is working for MARCOS loading lettuce trucks or the good Dr. only seeing patients 2 days a week TEACHING IS A CHOICE and 1 that has some very fine hours and vacations LETS FACE IT!!!! Its not like you thought to yourself one day I am going to teach and make lots of $$$$ you did it for the passion of it I hope anyway. But as soon as you people get threw the door you want more $$$ complain about the degrees you have and you being worth more when you full well had to know what you were getting yourself into and to top it off complain again about how you are more of a parent to the students than there own......... I AM PISSED OFF ABOUT THIS I am not looking to fight with anyone
you all would KILL me with your spelling and I don't have the patience for spell check LOL MY CONCERNS ARE NOT SELFISH uneducated maybe, but they stemed from concern for the children................and my LOVE for football.............Now that was honest!!!!as far as your statement about the ungreatful sports parent THATS TOO FUNNY!!!!!!!!! although on some days I do complain about the countless hours I spend at the fields with my boys and the orders I have to take for pride packs ect.......and lets not forget the complaining over the tuition yup I do that sometimes too jesus christ I also put out $300 along with the other football parents for new sod at our field
there grass is nicer than mine FOR REAL......................come on .......... You don't really want to be nasty to me do you???????MY ORIGINAL POST may have seemed disturbing to you and you may have felt the need to defend and thats cool BUT for real DOG I'll admit like I did in the beginning MY SONS FOOTBALL SEASON may not happen ................YES I'm PISSED...............MY CONCERN FOR THE KIDS SEEMED TO GET TAKEN WAAAAAAY out of text and I am obviously crucified for my opinions.....................Thats cool though!!!!!!!!!!!!!
in closing I really hope that the kids go back to school and the teachers AND everyone is happy. There is nothing I can personally do about it anyway .
Hey dog maybe you could give my sons coach a call though ,,,,, you know put a good word in for him MAYBE HE'LL PLAY THIS YEAR I promiss he won't get hurt
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I'm sorry you didn't appreciate my sarcasm worm quoting your incorrect spelling, it was just hard to resist with the whole MENSA statement.
This has just gotten away from the original arguments. But as dogface and I have said, it would be one thing if you had some perspective on the topic and then made logical statements about it. But it's another to make such statements without anything to back it up.
Greed can be found everywhere, but I doubt someone with an inherent desire for money would go into teaching.
This has just gotten away from the original arguments. But as dogface and I have said, it would be one thing if you had some perspective on the topic and then made logical statements about it. But it's another to make such statements without anything to back it up.
Greed can be found everywhere, but I doubt someone with an inherent desire for money would go into teaching.
It's in my nature, but I have to clear it up. I am no longer a teacher/educator. Although I do receie around 50-60 e-mails a week from my former students all over the country now in college which I think is really cool...it is so very gratifying to touch a young person's life.
As for us doing more parenting than a majority of the parent's, one just needs to hear comments form exasperated parent's thanksing us, one just needs to be a fly on the wall to hear discussions that are so candid their parent's would be lucky that they even know their child's name they are so out of touch. That's with parent's that have great relationships with their kids. It's even worse fo those with little to no relationship. At end of the year comments like this would flow, Thanks so much for being there for my son/daughter someone needs to understand them as they transistion in life and we were fortunate it was you. (Not a braggart item, but it truly tells the story of how much parenting we do, and I still do some of it via e-mail or lunches with former students. Heck alot of the time I am invited by parents to lunch for advice!) This may be atypical in some opinions but there are no doubt thousands of us out there!!!
I truly do undersand your points, but the statements that were made and the wording of the post was so inaccurate it created a storm of repsonses and attitudes.
BTW: Ask your sons teachers what their hours are like, I think you would be surprised. I worked and wa at school form 6:30 AM until 4:30 non sports, 6:30 PM while coaching. Then went home to complete grading of papers for over 160 some students. I would then work summer to update my curriculum to be as upt to date as possible. In high school, unlike some Elementary classes and I stress some, we have to change every year to improve our product. I have a cushier schedule being a Pharmaceutical Rep for a 6.7 billion dollar company than I did as a teacher making $40000.
I am pretty easy going btw, and typically only chime in when information appears to be slightly off. That's my story and I am sticking to it!
Even though I am not in Mensa I do like a good conversation based on fact and feeling as long as it stays rational. We just can't get over excited, because this too you and many others is a very important item!
I do also hope they get it rectified before the school year starts. And I have to decline the phone call, I believe in this one theory alone when it comes to athletics:
This is based on an actual open house introduction to the parent's of a collegiate team getting a new coach:
Hello and Welcome! I would really like to stress only two points tonight, but they are pretty clear and will guide us throughout the year.
I am the head coach, and you all expect me to do my job and coach! That I will do!
You are all the parent's and I expect you to do your job and parent. That I will hold you to.
To get it straight, don't tell me how to coach, and I won't tell you how to parent!
Thanks and let's have a great year!
He then proceeded to walk off the podium and out of the building! That is what I call a great welcoming speech!
As for us doing more parenting than a majority of the parent's, one just needs to hear comments form exasperated parent's thanksing us, one just needs to be a fly on the wall to hear discussions that are so candid their parent's would be lucky that they even know their child's name they are so out of touch. That's with parent's that have great relationships with their kids. It's even worse fo those with little to no relationship. At end of the year comments like this would flow, Thanks so much for being there for my son/daughter someone needs to understand them as they transistion in life and we were fortunate it was you. (Not a braggart item, but it truly tells the story of how much parenting we do, and I still do some of it via e-mail or lunches with former students. Heck alot of the time I am invited by parents to lunch for advice!) This may be atypical in some opinions but there are no doubt thousands of us out there!!!
I truly do undersand your points, but the statements that were made and the wording of the post was so inaccurate it created a storm of repsonses and attitudes.
BTW: Ask your sons teachers what their hours are like, I think you would be surprised. I worked and wa at school form 6:30 AM until 4:30 non sports, 6:30 PM while coaching. Then went home to complete grading of papers for over 160 some students. I would then work summer to update my curriculum to be as upt to date as possible. In high school, unlike some Elementary classes and I stress some, we have to change every year to improve our product. I have a cushier schedule being a Pharmaceutical Rep for a 6.7 billion dollar company than I did as a teacher making $40000.
I am pretty easy going btw, and typically only chime in when information appears to be slightly off. That's my story and I am sticking to it!
Even though I am not in Mensa I do like a good conversation based on fact and feeling as long as it stays rational. We just can't get over excited, because this too you and many others is a very important item!
I do also hope they get it rectified before the school year starts. And I have to decline the phone call, I believe in this one theory alone when it comes to athletics:
This is based on an actual open house introduction to the parent's of a collegiate team getting a new coach:
Hello and Welcome! I would really like to stress only two points tonight, but they are pretty clear and will guide us throughout the year.
I am the head coach, and you all expect me to do my job and coach! That I will do!
You are all the parent's and I expect you to do your job and parent. That I will hold you to.
To get it straight, don't tell me how to coach, and I won't tell you how to parent!
Thanks and let's have a great year!
He then proceeded to walk off the podium and out of the building! That is what I call a great welcoming speech!
I like the first part, but the last story was funny but pretty stupid (on the coach's part).
Seems like half the college coaches are just glorified high school coaches.
And I'm wicked "pro-coach," for those that know what I mean. But to ignore a situation is not a way of handling the situation, in my opinion.
Seems like half the college coaches are just glorified high school coaches.
And I'm wicked "pro-coach," for those that know what I mean. But to ignore a situation is not a way of handling the situation, in my opinion.
The typical response that teachers work only 41 weeks a year, etc. is not only an old and tired tale, it is not accurate. For one thing, teachers are paid to work 40 weeks per year. For example, I receive no paychecks for August and September. The scond biggest gripe concerns all those vacations teachers receive. I would bet that many of you get your 4 weeks off for vacation per year in addition to all the holidays. Christmas and NY, for example, are basically off days for most. In addition, teachers can't spend 20 minutes hanging out at the water cooler or take long lunches because we are tied to our classrooms. We can't even go to the bathroom except during passing period if we are lucky. We can't leave early to pick up our kids or go to the doctor, etc. We are tied to our classrooms. We can't sit at our desks and take personal phone calls all afternoon or play computer games. But all that is petty stuff. A good teacher will work plenty of hours - don't think anything else.
Like every profession, there are workers and there are slackers. Teaching is no different. The same applies to attorneys, doctors, government workers, garbage collectors, etc. It is no longer impossible to fire the poor teachers because in today's educational world everything is about "data." Everything is about state mandated testing, etc. Teachers that cannot do the job will no longer have a free ride.
Also, why is it not permissable for teachers to receive the same treatment as any other profession - including police, fire fighters, etc.? Teachers are often treated poorly because their bosses know that the majority will pick up the slack for those that don't cut it. Again - that happens in every other job. The point is, teaching is not really that much different.
Finally, let me ask how many of you would like this benefit of being a teacher. I worked during high school, during college, and for more than 16 years paying into social security. As a teacher, i often worked summers, again paying into social security. When I retire, I will receive only 40% of what I should receive in ss. That is right - my ss will be cut to 40% of what it should be because I will also be collecting teacher's retirement pensions - another system that I fund. How many of you would like to have your ss cut to 40%?
We could argue this until the cows came home and most people will not change their views. Teachers should be looked at as any other professional would be, albeit they have college educations and many have advanced degrees. Everyone in every profession wants more money. Your doctor is charging you more. Your dentist is charging you more. Your carpenter is charging you more. Groceries and gas are costing more. Why shouldn't teachers ask for wage increases? It isn't a voluntary position, though it often seems that way. The teacher union is basically powerful only in the eastern part of the United States. The unions in the west are merely dues collectors. That is why there are so few strikes in the west. Nevertheless, I would just ask that teachers be accorded the same rights as any other comparable position.
Like every profession, there are workers and there are slackers. Teaching is no different. The same applies to attorneys, doctors, government workers, garbage collectors, etc. It is no longer impossible to fire the poor teachers because in today's educational world everything is about "data." Everything is about state mandated testing, etc. Teachers that cannot do the job will no longer have a free ride.
Also, why is it not permissable for teachers to receive the same treatment as any other profession - including police, fire fighters, etc.? Teachers are often treated poorly because their bosses know that the majority will pick up the slack for those that don't cut it. Again - that happens in every other job. The point is, teaching is not really that much different.
Finally, let me ask how many of you would like this benefit of being a teacher. I worked during high school, during college, and for more than 16 years paying into social security. As a teacher, i often worked summers, again paying into social security. When I retire, I will receive only 40% of what I should receive in ss. That is right - my ss will be cut to 40% of what it should be because I will also be collecting teacher's retirement pensions - another system that I fund. How many of you would like to have your ss cut to 40%?
We could argue this until the cows came home and most people will not change their views. Teachers should be looked at as any other professional would be, albeit they have college educations and many have advanced degrees. Everyone in every profession wants more money. Your doctor is charging you more. Your dentist is charging you more. Your carpenter is charging you more. Groceries and gas are costing more. Why shouldn't teachers ask for wage increases? It isn't a voluntary position, though it often seems that way. The teacher union is basically powerful only in the eastern part of the United States. The unions in the west are merely dues collectors. That is why there are so few strikes in the west. Nevertheless, I would just ask that teachers be accorded the same rights as any other comparable position.
TBONEZ-
I hope everything works out so your son gets to play his season and there is no strike. I am biased because my wife is a teacher and believe me she works hard for her salary. She started out making $24,000 a year without insurance. I had about 5 long paragraphs written but deleted them. Some of the statements made in this thread make me sick and I don't even want to get into it, but WORM for such a smart guy WOW. Who the hell would you rather have as a teacher for your kids someone who WANTS to be a teacher and asks for a raise every 3 years( which I think every single person here at MJ's has gotten a raise in the last 3 years) or some shitbag who doesn't care? I guess the world you live in has no inflation and everybody should be able to live on their same wage for the rest of their lives.
TBONEZ I seriously hope all goes well. It sounds like your son has put alot of hard work in.
just cover
I hope everything works out so your son gets to play his season and there is no strike. I am biased because my wife is a teacher and believe me she works hard for her salary. She started out making $24,000 a year without insurance. I had about 5 long paragraphs written but deleted them. Some of the statements made in this thread make me sick and I don't even want to get into it, but WORM for such a smart guy WOW. Who the hell would you rather have as a teacher for your kids someone who WANTS to be a teacher and asks for a raise every 3 years( which I think every single person here at MJ's has gotten a raise in the last 3 years) or some shitbag who doesn't care? I guess the world you live in has no inflation and everybody should be able to live on their same wage for the rest of their lives.
TBONEZ I seriously hope all goes well. It sounds like your son has put alot of hard work in.
just cover
thanks JUST COVER I thought I would just pop in and fill you in , The archdiosise SP? put in there final offer today and it was refused by the teachers . I am trying to learn as I go so bare with me FOOTBALL and the KIDS was the reason I started this whole thread my son just informed me that they will still practice tom. , the football captins will run the show NO coaches will be there:shrug: You see St. Joe's Prep school will not be affected by our strike and they are our biggest rival so these boys need to stay on the field and practice so WE can take the championship this year . I love my sons coach his heart is so into these kids...............He has orginized the senior captins to open up the clubhouse and run practice as usual ..................I HOPE THINGS WORK OUT BEFOR THE SEASON IS CANCELLED
worm44 said:as far as attacking my "smarts"- I would not be so sure that would be a wise move on your part-as I am a section president for a Mensa chapter (if you know what that is)...
:lol2 :lol:
Just started reading this thread for the first time...plenty of humoruos, ignorant, misinformed statements, but nothing beats this one. LOL...I'm dying here.
i agree....i am all for giving teachers more $$....but it is based on one condition: fire all the shitty teachers...which are about 1/3 of them
no reason why a bad teacher is on the same pay scale as a good teacher...well there IS a reason...the NEA
and the workloads are just FINE....every job works overtime....and once you have a lesson plan, not much goes into regurgitating it year after year...the same can not be said about many other professions
i think teachers are important and heck yeah the good ones are underpaid...but that is because there is no accountability/reward system and it is BECAUSE of the teachers themselves for setting up their unions
and 12 weeks of golf in the summertime isn't a bad gig either
no reason why a bad teacher is on the same pay scale as a good teacher...well there IS a reason...the NEA
and the workloads are just FINE....every job works overtime....and once you have a lesson plan, not much goes into regurgitating it year after year...the same can not be said about many other professions
i think teachers are important and heck yeah the good ones are underpaid...but that is because there is no accountability/reward system and it is BECAUSE of the teachers themselves for setting up their unions
and 12 weeks of golf in the summertime isn't a bad gig either
Hey hoops--nice spelling(check your post)-do you need verification? I can supply that--Put your $ where your mouth is...
Mty wife is a teacher, and she works twice as hard as most people i know. She leaves the house at 6:40 am and doesn't usually get home until 4:30 or 5. Immediately she goes to the computer and is usually working on it or doing something else until 9:00 or 10:00pm. She will get a $100 raise annually over the first 7 years she is a teacher. The old addage of bad pay, but good benefits isn't even applicable anymore. Her benefits were just cut this year, and she is paying for all of her health insurance now. But, we are fine with all of this because she doesn't teach for the money. For the first time this past year, my wife worked a summer job, and now I think it was a terrible idea. I never really realized that teachers needed the summer to recoup, because believe me, they get worn out working with the kids, and they need 2 months to rest over the summer. I don't see here doing it more than a couple more years, because she is tired of the parents that complain about things they know nothing about, yet give no parental guidance at home. She also is tired of dealing with the beaurocracy of the system that doesn't support the teachers. The school board has now banned teachers from giving out candy because it makes the kids obese. Yeah, but they can eat donuts, and any cakes, and then don't forget McDonalds 3 nights a week. The problem is that the people making most of the decisions have never teached.
Dr. Freeze-
If we fired all of the same 1/3 of the poor Docs we wouldn't have anyone to go to!
Tell me this, how many classes do you have to maintain a 95% in to continue on in med school and before you enter in to your residency. I am pushing for all Doc's to be in the 100% range, because if they make a single mistake they put people at grave risk and danger.
My statement is almost as ridiculous as your post, and if hoops would have waited he would have found another quote.
Your statement: Once you have a lesson plan, not much goes into regurgitating year after year.
Can I ask where you obtained your degeree in education? Actually can I ask where you attended classes in both HS an Collge. I want to make sure, you A) Do not become a practicing Doc in my area. B) Foreworn people about your educational experiences so as to not have anyone go through the same tragic events. Regurgitating lesson plans...that is certainly what we do?
Do you have a freakin clue how to develop a curriculum? Do you know how long a curriculum per class takes to evolve? Do you then understand the breakdown of said curriculum into Quarterly, Monthly, Weekly, and then Daily subsets that not only encourage learning, but elicit active and engaging responses in a classroom. Are you aware that the "quality" teachers have all of these items broken down to a per class 55 or 90 minute class periods and then we have those class periods broken down into 15-20 minute sections that reinforc ethe learning process and keep it fresh.
Now do this for 40 students in a classroom, keeping in mind that the classrooms today mainstream those students with special needs into the everyday classes. We then alter instruction on the fly to meet all of the different learning styles out there...do you know how many styles there are, and how to vary the method of instuction to meet those needs....and then do it on the fly!!!!
Now that's just one class, let's add that most HS teachers teach roughly 3 different classes per day, and about 5 different per quarter. DO you really think teaching is that easy! DO you really think that the workload is FINE, with your limited knowledge. THe NEA does nothing on a local level, absolutely nothing. NEA representaton is weak and very expensive...but we are forced to be apart of it.
DO you really think teachers get 12 weeks off? DO you think during the school year, with everything cited above we have enough time to plan out for the following year. Heck most of the time you don't even know what classes you may be teaching next year. We have to get to know around 160 new kids every quarter, instruct them, and then grade them. One just has to do 1 extensive assignment as I have done such as a 10 page business plan and you can see how unforgiving teaching is and that my day extends into the late night hours...almost everyday!
Ignorance is bliss I guess, and that may seem harsh...but those comments are unfreakinbelievable!
If we fired all of the same 1/3 of the poor Docs we wouldn't have anyone to go to!
Tell me this, how many classes do you have to maintain a 95% in to continue on in med school and before you enter in to your residency. I am pushing for all Doc's to be in the 100% range, because if they make a single mistake they put people at grave risk and danger.
My statement is almost as ridiculous as your post, and if hoops would have waited he would have found another quote.
Your statement: Once you have a lesson plan, not much goes into regurgitating year after year.
Can I ask where you obtained your degeree in education? Actually can I ask where you attended classes in both HS an Collge. I want to make sure, you A) Do not become a practicing Doc in my area. B) Foreworn people about your educational experiences so as to not have anyone go through the same tragic events. Regurgitating lesson plans...that is certainly what we do?
Do you have a freakin clue how to develop a curriculum? Do you know how long a curriculum per class takes to evolve? Do you then understand the breakdown of said curriculum into Quarterly, Monthly, Weekly, and then Daily subsets that not only encourage learning, but elicit active and engaging responses in a classroom. Are you aware that the "quality" teachers have all of these items broken down to a per class 55 or 90 minute class periods and then we have those class periods broken down into 15-20 minute sections that reinforc ethe learning process and keep it fresh.
Now do this for 40 students in a classroom, keeping in mind that the classrooms today mainstream those students with special needs into the everyday classes. We then alter instruction on the fly to meet all of the different learning styles out there...do you know how many styles there are, and how to vary the method of instuction to meet those needs....and then do it on the fly!!!!
Now that's just one class, let's add that most HS teachers teach roughly 3 different classes per day, and about 5 different per quarter. DO you really think teaching is that easy! DO you really think that the workload is FINE, with your limited knowledge. THe NEA does nothing on a local level, absolutely nothing. NEA representaton is weak and very expensive...but we are forced to be apart of it.
DO you really think teachers get 12 weeks off? DO you think during the school year, with everything cited above we have enough time to plan out for the following year. Heck most of the time you don't even know what classes you may be teaching next year. We have to get to know around 160 new kids every quarter, instruct them, and then grade them. One just has to do 1 extensive assignment as I have done such as a 10 page business plan and you can see how unforgiving teaching is and that my day extends into the late night hours...almost everyday!
Ignorance is bliss I guess, and that may seem harsh...but those comments are unfreakinbelievable!
Freeze - good point on one thing - the stupid system that pays every teacher the same amount of money based on experience and education. You would think that pay would be based on evaluations. But doing it that way is basically impossible. If you are teaching an advanced placement history class and I am teaching a history class to kids that just came out of juvenile hall, what comparisons could be made? The wide disparity in students makes an objective comparison impossible. Unfortunately, this rewards the lazy and incompetent and penalizes the professionals.
You guys are WAY OFF base when you say that teachers just repeat the same lesson plan over and over ad nauseum. That was the old days. In today's world of statewide and federal standards, all lesson plans must be geared to cover at least the essential standards. In most cases lesson plans must be developed to teach all the state standards. This requires specificity - the old stuff won't be acceptable.
In my opinion, the testing frenzy and movement to standards based education is well meant but totally absurd. All any teacher does in today's classes is teach to the tests. The success or failure of the school (meaning the principal and his/her chances to advance) is all based on testing. We take probably 4 weeks minimum out of a year to test (assess). We don't have time to teach students how to think on their feet or to truly uderstand something. Instead, the testing involves rote memory and the like. It isn't preparing anyone for life in the real world.
The best example of this assinine policy that is sweeping American's schools was brought out into the open last week in my district. All the history teachers in the district were gathered to see the wonderful new U.S. History textbook that we would be using. As in most districts, our curriculum specialists had devised a syllabus or calendarized schedule for the teaching of the state standards. When I looked it over, I saw that Chapter 5 was simply omitted. I asked if that was a mistake. I was told that no, it wasn't an error, but nothing from Chapter 5 was on "the test."
I then looked at the subject matter of Chapter 5 and it concerned the fate of the Indians in the United States. In my opinion, no one could teach U.S. History without including this material and I will incorporate it into my lessons. But this is the mind frame of the educational leaders.
And actually freeze, we only get 10 weeks off to sharpen our golf games in the summer (at least in my district). And as mentioned before, those are weeks off without pay.
You guys are WAY OFF base when you say that teachers just repeat the same lesson plan over and over ad nauseum. That was the old days. In today's world of statewide and federal standards, all lesson plans must be geared to cover at least the essential standards. In most cases lesson plans must be developed to teach all the state standards. This requires specificity - the old stuff won't be acceptable.
In my opinion, the testing frenzy and movement to standards based education is well meant but totally absurd. All any teacher does in today's classes is teach to the tests. The success or failure of the school (meaning the principal and his/her chances to advance) is all based on testing. We take probably 4 weeks minimum out of a year to test (assess). We don't have time to teach students how to think on their feet or to truly uderstand something. Instead, the testing involves rote memory and the like. It isn't preparing anyone for life in the real world.
The best example of this assinine policy that is sweeping American's schools was brought out into the open last week in my district. All the history teachers in the district were gathered to see the wonderful new U.S. History textbook that we would be using. As in most districts, our curriculum specialists had devised a syllabus or calendarized schedule for the teaching of the state standards. When I looked it over, I saw that Chapter 5 was simply omitted. I asked if that was a mistake. I was told that no, it wasn't an error, but nothing from Chapter 5 was on "the test."
I then looked at the subject matter of Chapter 5 and it concerned the fate of the Indians in the United States. In my opinion, no one could teach U.S. History without including this material and I will incorporate it into my lessons. But this is the mind frame of the educational leaders.
And actually freeze, we only get 10 weeks off to sharpen our golf games in the summer (at least in my district). And as mentioned before, those are weeks off without pay.
