Theological question...

[Felonious Monk]

Often you hear a member of the winning team thanking God for allowing them to win and saying "God was on our side today".

Why don't they ever say that "God wasn't on our side, He was on their side today" or that "God wanted them to win, I guess"?

My biggest problem with all of this is that the implication that God really cares who wins the Super Bowl is offensive to me. I can see thanking Him for everyone's health after the game, etc. But actually saying that He affected the outcome? Ridiculous.

 

[JSMOOTH]

I forget who said this...Deion or Warner probably...but they said that when players "thank god", they are thanking god for giving them their abilities that put them in those situations.

whatever

 

[Felonious Monk]

I'm actually referencing Kurt Warner's post-game comments "props for God Almighty". Kurt's post-game witnessing is one of the reasons I was dreading a Rams' win. I think his post-game prosletyzing is annoying.

I just think it's funny that everything good in sports is because God did it, and we never hear about why a team lost in the same way "It was due to Satan!" I always found it humorous that athletes believed God took sides in these matters.

Difference between thanking God for giving you the talent for playing and thanking Him for "being on our side" and "helping us win this game". Big difference.

It's not offensive, just ridiculous. I find it humorous how self-centered and primitive some peoples' religious beliefs are. If Kurt Warner wants to believe that Jesus is a meddlesome deity who directly aids "good Christians" in all of their mundane Earthly endeavors, then more power to him. But I think if religion had a direct correlation to athletic success, don't you think Mother Theresa would have been in the NFL Hall of Fame???

 

[SixFive]

I don't think God cares who wins either in relation to pro sports/superbowl. Think of it this way though. It's a great opportunity for one man to witness to MILLIONS! The point is, he has God in his life, that is special/important to him, and he wants others to know it. Maybe a few people heard him and want to experience that for themselves. I don't see anything wrong with that at all.

 

[dr. freeze]

I'm actually referencing Kurt Warner's post-game comments "props for God Almighty". Kurt's post-game witnessing is one of the reasons I was dreading a Rams' win. I think his post-game prostlyzing is annoying.

I just think it's funny that everything good in sports is because God did it, and we never hear about why a team lost in the same way "It was due to Satan!" I always found it humorous that athletes believed God took sides in these matters.

Difference between thanking God for giving you the talent for playing and thanking Him for "being on our side" and "helping us win this game". Big difference.

It's not offensive, just ridiculous. I find it humorous how self-centered and primitive some peoples' religious beliefs are. If Kurt Warner wants to believe that Jesus is a meddlesome deity who directly aids "good Christians" in all of their mundane Earthly endeavors, then more power to him. But I think if religion had a direct correlation to athletic success, don't you think Mother Theresa would have been in the NFL Hall of Fame???

FM.....your reasoning has flaws........

first you need to be very careful how you perceive one's relationship with God........the God whom Christians serve is a personal God.....and everyone has their own relationship with Him.....it is hard for someone on the outside looking in to know what each person's faith consists of in terms of this relationship.......

also the God whom Christians serve is a God who is concerned about the most trivial issues among us.....if when a sparrow takes off, God takes notice, certainly He must be concerned with the day to day events of our lives......

issues such as you speak of....whether God cares or "meddles" in the affairs of humans.....such as seemingly meaningless (in the long scheme of things anyways) games......are a little more complex than the picture you seem to have tried to paint......If God is omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent, which as a CHristian I myself believe, I think it is absolutely necessary for him to be involved in the random motion of particles detailing entropy....and much much greater the outcome a sporting event....

also.......if God is a God for anyone who should accept Him, then why would there be some kind of intellectual capacity....such as nonprimitive thought.....in order for one to have faith in Him?

interesting discussion you raised......but it isn't as simple as first appears.....and I have long wondered about things as such......

 

[yyz]

God doesn't forget everyone..................


http://www.theonion.com/onion3731/god_gives_shout-out.html

 

[Ike Bomb]

It is terribly annoying, and has no place in sports.

:nono:

 

[Felonious Monk]

Freeze

Freeze

Would I be correct in assuming that you're a grade-A bible-thumper with no sense of humor?

I'm not questioning God's existence or one's personal beliefs. Did you not clearly read and comprehend what I said above? I'm not talking about thanking God for the strength He's given you, etc. I'm talking about implying that you won because He chose you to win. And why do you consider me "on the outside looking in"?

If he does indeed believe that God causes the good and the bad regardless of belief, then my question would be "What's the point of bringing that up all the time?" Obviously, God made the Patriots win, because God affects not only Kurt Warner, but every NFL player. So, are we supposed to go around thanking God for everything that happens to us. "Thank you, God, for the tick of my watch last second," or "Thank you God for my thanking you for the last tick of my watch and, oh, thanks for the last few ticks of my watch, too, and my blinking during the time I've been thanking you."

But I don't remember Kurt thanking God for the Super Bowl loss with a rousing "All praise to God for our loss, because he deserves the glory for bringing about our disappointing showing in the Super Bowl. Amen." He only thanks God for the wins. Is Kurt Warner passing judgement on God's actions? Does he only thank God for those acts of which he approves? Should he not equally thank God for all of his failures and misery?

The problem is that Kurt Warner has a simplistic, self-centered view of religion. And, it's fun to laugh at him for it.

 

[Bluemound Freak]

I'm Guessing that everyone watched Real Sports with Bryant Gumbel last night because this was a Section of the show! I was really suprised that as many folks were this deep into religion in athletics. You know the occasional thanks to god, or Allah, or Jebus, or whoever is fine with me. BUT the persecution of others on your team and others in general makes me mad as a one legged rooster on a hot tin roof!

I live in Alabama, DUH, and here in the deep south it is just common place to have the lord shoved down your throat constantly. In my home town you can't swing a dead cat without hitting someone who is coming or going to church! I live with this and deal with it the best I can, hell even my grandmother gives me grief and tells me I'm damned and I'm going to hell, just because I did not go to church with her and stayed home and watched the early Football game! Well I've got news for people of that nature!!! Read your bible, Ihave many times over( Catholic School boy for 10 years ) and you'll see were it says do not pass judgement, well in my book someone tells me I'm going to hell because I did not go to church or they think I don't believe! Well Sit on down right next to me and we'll talk some shop on the ride down together, because you judging me is just as bad as me not going to church!

Don't get me wrong, I believe in God, but don't tell me how I have to praise him! I do it in my own little way every day! I don't have to put on my 500.00 Gucci suit and sit in the front row of the social session every sunday, I pray in my own way on my time and don't have to answer to anyone except God on that special day. And when that day comes I think it probably wont matter to the Big man how many times I said thank you Jesus in public and to other people for my mediocrity, But that I was deep down a good person! That's all you have to be. Be good to others and just live right and you will see salvation. I've always told people that bring this up to me that me and God are buddies and we have a special relationship that does not require a weekly visit just daily goodness!

And as far as Sports is concerned, Don't even say "God was on our side" If you must say somethig Say " Thank you Lord for giving "ME" the strength to help propel my team to victory and for giving me guidance and or wisdom to complete these tasks that have been laid out before me"! But never assume that GOD wanted your team to win, Like he cares which team wins! I'm sure that if this was true the Siants would win the Super Bowl every year and the Angels would win the Series every year! The Devil Rays would never win a game! Just my opinion!

I don't expect people to take my stand on Religion and that is not what this post is for, Religion takes a different spot with different people and this is just how I feel.

 

[bigbagrat]

I normally would pass on this because there are no winning sides but I'll jump in anyway. Monk's original statement is correct and does not belittle religion in any way. While God has given us "free will" to do what we want AND may cause actions to happen to or against us for a purpose, God is not interested in the outcome of anything, only the effect it has on "his people." I do not pay any attention to ANYTHING an athlete says right after a game, win or lose, since you consistantly hear the stupidest things come out of their mouths at that time. Let Kurt Warner take a shower, reflect just a bit, then I'd love to talk to him.

 

[BobbyBlueChip]

Monk,

I think you knew where the press conference was going to go before you saw Warner speak. If you don't want to hear what he has to say don't watch. I don't believe that God has any care in the SuperBowl, but if Warner does, that's his business and he's the one on the podium.

Like Blue said "This is how I feel." It's just as Kurt feels.

And truly if you didn't believe in God it would be justified as a Longhorn fan. Getting your hopes up every year with the recruiting annuals only to have plans thwarted by the Stanfords and Colorados of the world

 

[kevinmac_99]

Here we go with this Bullshit again........

 

[Juice]

It is terribly annoying, and has no place in sports.

agree 100 %

You can't watch a touchdown, a basket, a home run, a goal, etc, without someone giving praise to God.
If that's not bad enough, after the game you have to listen to them talk about God. Its getting very monotonous.

 

[dr. freeze]

Monk......

in concerning Christianity.....we all are outsiders to another's faithin God......thought i made that point clear.....Christianity is different from other religions because it involves a relationship between man and God........

as far as this being a laughing matter.....it is definitely not a laughing matter to make fun of someone's relationship with the God if you consider Him the Holy of Holies......

implying that thinking God chose you to win brings up another argument which is years old......predestination.....and the way I see it, above our comprehension to understand fully.......just as we do not understand many of the physical principles governing this univese and never will be able to....we also most likely will never be able to understand many concepts such as this.....

me a "bible thumper"?.....call it what you want and if you wish to throw some derogatory remarks about my faith go ahead.....but yes I take the Bible seriously and literally and try to live by it......

do not categorize me with many other Christians today though because I see a majority.....yes a majority.....of them which saddens me who instead of actually applying their faith to their own life try to apply things to others in order to make themselves feel superior........I could walk into some churches with rugged clothes on and i guarantee you 95% of the people there would look down on me......and that pisses me off probably more than anyone.....so yes I am a "bible thumper" but no I am not like most "mainstream Christians" you may have encountered......after all, I am a gambler -- which is dreamed up as a a "sin" to many of these so-called "Christians"......lol.......

the main point of what I am trying to say is that Christianity in its truest form involves two people and at its essence is a relationship......and where that person is in his faith to you and to me is totally foreign.....the only thing we can really know is where we personally are in our faith......

Kurt Warner I see as one of the better guys in the game with the things he has done with his money......if he wants to thank God for helping him win a game......so be it.....he may feel that God is responsible for giving him all his talent and want the glory to go where glory is due......i hate to assume that myself as it is not to my knowledge and i as i said am an outsider to his relationship with God

anyways......enough for now......

 

[dr. freeze]

agree 100 %

You can't watch a touchdown, a basket, a home run, a goal, etc, without someone giving praise to God.
If that's not bad enough, after the game you have to listen to them talk about God. Its getting very monotonous.

we threw God out of our schools, courts, and now we want to throw Him out of sports.......yet when we ask "God, where are you?" in the time of need......we wonder where He is.......

 

[Ike Bomb]

we threw God out of our schools, courts, and now we want to throw Him out of sports.......yet when we ask "God, where are you?" in the time of need......we wonder where He is.......

He is where he has always been. In peoples imaginations.

 

[Juice]

we threw God out of our schools, courts, and now we want to throw Him out of sports

we threw God out of School and courts because He doesn't belong there, He belongs in church. If God is in schools, shouldn't Allah be there too? Shouldn't Muslims, Buddhists, Jews, Sikhs, etc be allowed to say a daily prayer in school as well?

Its ok for you to say we shouldn't throw God out of sports because you are Christian. What if you weren't? Would you feel the same?

 

[Felonious Monk]

Guys, listen to what I'm saying. I am not questioning Warner's faith in God.

If God has a direct correlation on every aspect of his life, then why does he acknowledge that correlation only when he wins and not when he loses? By the way, why is it okay for you to tell us what Warner believes but not okay for me to do it?

I'm simply baffled by why players who thank God do so only after successful plays or games. A sack, a knee injury, and the heaves are also part of His plan aren't they?

It's like me saying, Jesus Christ used to make me lose to my older brother and his friends at Risk. To teach me, I think.

Later, as a I grew and came to understand Him, I realized that my sentimental attachment to North America was a form of sin, attachment and greed. So I began anchoring myself in Australasia and South America -- fighting a holding action in Australia while expanding slowly from Brazil to W. Africa and from Colombia into Texas and Mexico.

Soon, I had reconciled myself to Christ and He began to look with favor upon my geopolitical strategies, including my penchant for betraying key alliances at crucial times for my own advantage. Soon Christ rewarded me with a string of impressive victories for now I was playing for His glory.

I am now trying to apply His teachings to my life. And to Stratego.

BTW, I don't believe everything I read in the Bible either.

 

[dr. freeze]

as i said before Christians have relationships with God......these relationships are more intimate than any other relationship.....

Here is what I say to nonChristians -- look at it like this......
I am not married. if you told your wife......you belong in the house....I do not wnat your husband to speak of you outside the house, nor are you allowed outside your house.....what would you think of that?

That is essentially what you are telling Christians about their relationships with God.....what happened to thier freedom?

now all of a sudden we have freedom to do whatever we want except involving anything to do with God?

America has always been a Christian nation.......believe it or not...read any history book......why would all our historic buildings be filled with Biblical sayings if it were not?.....the supreme court, which banned the ten commandments in recent years, has these same commandments enscripted on its walls......and all our laws are based upon a standard of laws found in one place-- the Bible....not the Koran -- we do not endorse killing everyone who opposes Allah -- which the Koran blantantly states.....actually Bin Laden DOES have one thing right --- he IS one of the only true followers of his faith......if you read the Koran you will find that it does justify his acts.....

if you want laws based on nothing you will have chaos....if you have laws based on Christian principles you will have what we have...but are rapidly losing.......if you want laws based on the Koran you can have that sh*t.......you have to base your way of life, laws, and morality on something......the US is not an athiestic country......there never has been a majority of athiests in our country.....we have always been a majority of Christains and that is what our way of life is based on......if you do not like it, go find some place that does it a better way......i doubt there is any

Christianity does not forbid other ways of thought to be practiced within its midst. That is why we have freedom of religion in this country....and if any other religion wants to be able to say their prayers.....go and do so.....but do not tell Christians when they can and when they can't practice their beliefs.......everyone always screams and cries about tolerance.....well, it seems to me they tolerate everything BUT Christians.....

you guys need to think what you are saying before you automatically assume things......

 

[Skinar]

Different outlook perhaps

Different outlook perhaps

... it seems to me that there are some benefits for athletes who 'commit' their souls and lives to 'God'. Any religious text I have ever read has espoused the virtues of avoiding alcohol and other drugs (nicotine comes to mind), of keeping one's body healthy so that their minds can stay healthy in order to better serve their 'God'. It also seems to me that athletes who can set their personal pain and suffering aside towards the attainment of a higher goal (in athletics or religion), those people can sometimes perform amazing physical feats and I'm not sure they could perform in such a manner without first 'giving up themselves'.

To me it's similar to the principle of the 'higher power' that people encounter in therapy. The human mind seems to perform better when it releases part of the conscious control to some subconscious function which remains unexplained.

I don't believe for a minute that 'God' gives a flying hoot about who wins a particular game, or political contest, or war for that matter. Those things only exist for the entertainment of humans. But then, only humans would be arrogant enough to attempt to 'claim' God for their side - in sports, politics, or war.