Theological question...

[kevinmac_99]

FREEZE......

FREEZE......

Get a hold of yourself man.......FM is only saying that it's pretty ridiculous that these athletes only give praise to GOD when something good happens....its pretty OBVIOUS isnt it....

here's a great example of what he's talking about:

Winning player: First of all I would like to thank the Lord
Almighty for this victory here today.

Reporter: So how does it feel to pick a pass off and take it to
back for a touchdown?

Winning Player: I got to give it up to the Man above, he was
watching me TODAY and I found my way their.

Now do you ever hear this?

Reporter: Now Mr. Cowboy player I know your coach had a great
game plan to blitz up the middle to flush the
quarterback out so he wouldn't get comfortable.....
what happened after that?

Losing player: Well first of all, I would like to thank the Lord
Almighty for trying to pull this one out, we were
so close to doing it but to answer your
question their Mr. Reporter the Man up above just
didn't have it in his plans today, you know
he just wasn't looking out for us like he
did last week when we beat the 49'ers.


KMAC

 

[Felonious Monk]

Sounds like dr. freeze has been up late watching the History Channel again. Freeze, there's a reason they put that disclaimer at the beginning of each of their shows - they don't know what the [censored] they're talking about.

If anyone's interested in the Bible (or, more appropriately Torah) Code, see this reference. It has numerous references to articles written by statistical experts: The Link

If you still believe the Bible Code is anything more than an overblown exaggeration of statistical coincidence, I suggest you contact me about leasing a beach side timeshare condo in Tempe, AZ. I also do faith healing.

 

[nighthorse]

To Bluemound and others:

Read your bible, Ihave many times over( Catholic School boy for 10 years ) and you'll see were it says do not pass judgement, well in my book someone tells me I'm going to hell because I did not go to church or they think I don't believe! Well Sit on down right next to me and we'll talk some shop on the ride down together, because you judging me is just as bad as me not going to church!

First of all, grandma is wrong. You're not going to hell if you don't go to church. It was also wrong for her too pass the ultimate judgment. It's Gods judgment alone that determines one's ultimate fate.

Second, the Bible does not say "Don't pass judgment" in general. What the intent of that passage was is that if you're going to pass judgment, you must be willing to hold yourself to the same standards that you judge others. That's what Jesus was talking about when He said don't point out the sty in someone else's eye when you have a plank in your own.

We pass judgment on people and things and events all the time. We would be foolish not to. Proverbs is full of judgments, how to judge and why.

I judge all the time; ex. (Mike Tyson is looney tunes, the Rams were too arrogant, Bobby Knight is a blowhard, etc.).....judging is good!!!!!!!!

Also, there's this:

But that I was deep down a good person! That's all you have to be. Be good to others and just live right and you will see salvation. I've always told people that bring this up to me that me and God are buddies and we have a special relationship that does not require a weekly visit just daily goodness!

This is true. However, we are born in orginal sin. We are not good. We only acheive salvation and "goodness" through the blood of Christ. Christianity says nothing about just being a good guy and getting in. It's in your Bible. It's probably been a while, crack it open and find out if I'm wrong.

As for the Superbowl, I'm sure God does have an interest: Whichever outcome is best for His children as a whole. Just because someone professes a love and devotion to Christ, doesn't mean he's saying you are a lesser person than him. (At least he shouldn't, because it's not true). It's our job to make Jesus known to others. We don't (or shouldn't) do it to make you feel guilty or to take shots at you.

Finally, don't let misguided, overzealous Christians be your only guide to the worthwhileness of Christianity itself. We humans are imperfect messengers who still sin. There is only One who has walked the earth in perfection.

Patriots Rule!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Bluemound Freak]

Dr. Freeze, I am not trying to disrespect you in any way shape or form, but you are going into this whole discussion with your talons wide open and ready for blood! That is exactly the same way most Southerners approach religion topics, " man you are stupid if you think that" attitude! Now I know you are an educated man by your title and how you represent yourself. So lets put this into perspective.

Lets say you had done a study in undergraduate studies and found the cure for cancer. The professor you were studying under said no this will never work and you ask why ( most educated people ask this question quite often ) and he says Because I said so. Well I'm sure you would get quite defensive and want to argue with him correct?

This is the attitude 9 out of 10 people will take when someone tells them they are wrong without a feasable explanation. The bible has been being studied for 2000 years and people have formed thousands of different opinions on those teachings. I don't think you getting mad at monk or vice versa is going to overrule 2000 years of writing!

Just face facts, you guys are in disagreement over a very deep subject! Freeze you have an opinion about sports and God and Monk has a different one! You think that it is OK and we should just ignore it and Monk thinks its not the appropriate time or whatever! Here is the deal, what he is saying is NOBODY ever says God made us lose so why do they blame him for a win? And how is God for a team with Agnostics or Muslims and Jews on it? God had nothing to do with the Rams loss this year and nothing to do with their win 2 years ago, but the fact exists it was important to individuals on each team.

If you want to thank God when you win, then thank him but don't use him as a platform for all of the world to believe that he was the only reason. You had to practice, you had to work out, you had to train, but God DID NOT SHINE DOWN AND HELP YOU WIN, THIS AINT THE RED SEA IT'S FOOTBALL, YOU WON ON YOUR OWN ABILITY!

 

[Bluemound Freak]

Well said Nighthorse, I know that just being good is not enough, but it sounds better than "if you don't then your going to hell"! I'm just sugar coating the matter a little. And I don't think Judgemental people are sinners or anything like that what I was trying to say is that If you cast a stone at anyone for not having the same religous beliefs you have then you should be receiving one back at ya! I mean I'm judgemental about everything, you see how much I post? But that is a different judgement! I judge every second of every day but I never strike out against someone for their belief in a God. I don't care if you worship Moobie the golden calf just don't push it on me or tell me about it!

Yes I am a christian, Yes I have taken the body and blood of Christ, but what I'm getting at is that I don't have to be in church every time the doors open to go to heaven. That is all I am saying. I will not and am not arguing or discussing this point! I have a friend that I consider dear to my heart that issues his ideas of how people should pray everytime something good happens or every time something bad happens. Just live a Good life and you will be OK, it isn't a queston of quantitative faith you have it is qualitative faith that counts, I think! And that is all religion is, it is a gallery of thoughts that were interpreted by humans from Jesus himself. I'm just making my point from what I know.


Not looking for salvation on a gambling forum either, Just trying to answer a question in the most sensable way that I know how.

But thank you for taking the time to consider my opinion and think about it most would have just passed judgement and went on down the thread!

 

[bigbagrat]

...............would this be a bad time to point out that those of us (which includes me) who made off-color comments about Kurt Warner's wife in the thread last week are ALREADY going to Hell?

 

[Felonious Monk]

Blue -- Ding, ding, ding!!! We have a winner! Exactly!

I remember a comedian a while back making fun of athletes constantly thanking God for their victory. He used a boxer as an example, thanking God for "allowing me to bust in the head of my opponent and render him unconscious."

You see some guys that you know are sincere with their faith because they mention God's name in the good and bad, or in day-to-day life ... it's the ones who only "Thank God" when they win or succeed that kinda get old.

 

[nighthorse]

Re: Different outlook perhaps

Re: Different outlook perhaps

QUOTE]Originally posted by Skinar

To me it's similar to the principle of the 'higher power' that people encounter in therapy. The human mind seems to perform better when it releases part of the conscious control to some subconscious function which remains unexplained.[/QUOTE]

Are you open to the idea that God made us that way for a purpose? Perhaps we perform better when we turn our problems over to Him?

QUOTE]Originally posted by Skinar
I don't believe for a minute that 'God' gives a flying hoot about who wins a particular game, or political contest, or war for that matter. Those things only exist for the entertainment of humans. But then, only humans would be arrogant enough to attempt to 'claim' God for their side - in sports, politics, or war. [/QUOTE]

God does give a flying hoot about those things and a lot more. God commanded the Israelites to war. I'm sure He cared about that one. Our God is a personal God who cares about ALL aspects of our lives.

God did care who won the Superbowl. It's outcome served His purposes. We humans tend to learn more from adversity and failure. Life's troubles help draw us back to God. Maybe there was one individual on the Rams that God wanted to draw nearer to Him. How many people around the world do you think took a good hard look at their own lives after the Superbowl? (Including more than a couple of heavy gamblers) Only God knows why, but you can bet He had an interest in the outcome.

It's arrogant for us to assume what God is thinking (other than what he has already proclaimed) or that He doesn't care. It's His creation, He cares about all of it and all of us.

 

[nighthorse]

Bluemound

Bluemound

Thanks for the thoughtful reply.

That's cool...... I don't like Jehovahs' knocking on my door any more than anyone else. But Jesus did command us to spread the Good News. It's counterproductive to constantly throw all this in someone's face. Christians have to know that there is a time and a place for everything. If they ask God, He will let them know when it's appropriate.

For everyone:

When athletes proclaim their faith on TV after a sporting event, I don't know why anyone would get worked up about it. Even if I was an atheist, I'd rather had a Kurt Warner around than Darrell Russell.

Putting aside their faith, most of these athletes are really decent people. It seems we could "put up with" their occasional proclamations of faith. It doesn't take that long and it's not very intrusive.

We are suppose to be thankful to God for our troubles as well. When He gives us trouble, he's trying to lead us to a better way. As it relates to the original subject of this thread......I think it would be refreshing if someone would say something along the lines of what KevinMac_99 wrote with a little editing:

Losing player: Well first of all, I would like to thank the Lord
Almighty for giving us the ability to almost pull this one out, we were so close to doing it but to answer your
question their Mr. Reporter the Man up above just
didn't have it in his plans today. We need to learn from this and come back next week.

It's rarer than it should be, but I've heard losing athletes say things like this before.

I could do this all day, but I won't. I don't know how else to say it, but I get the impression some of you might be bitter. Probably through one or a series of bad experiences with Christians or churches, or Jimmy Swagart, etc.

All I can tell you is I believe wholeheartedly......Spiritually and scientifically with plenty of evidence to back me up. I wouldn't have accepted Jesus if it didn't make any sense. It's a valid position to hold on an intellectual level. We're not mind numbed robots.

You don't have to believe in Christ, but you shouldn't lump all believers in one category because of a few knuckleheads. Above all, don't discount Christianity because of them.

 

[Juice]

freeze, there's nothing wrong with being a religious person, but you don't have to let everyone know how religious you are ALL THE TIME. You can't say a word to some of these athletes without them mentioning Jesus Christ.

You seem to be a devoted Christian, but even you don't come out here every night saying things like:
"I'd like to thank our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ for letting me go 4-1 last night",
or
"The Lord had it in His plans for me to make 14 units last night, and I thank Him for it".

Wouldn't it be annoying to read that every time someone posts something?

 

[Felonious Monk]

nighthorse,

That's a rational viewpoint and thank you for your clarification but once again, I'm not talking about thanking God for the strength He's given you, etc. I'm talking about implying that you won because He chose you to win.

By the way, I never said I didn't believe in a God, some people tend to make assenine equations like "non-Christian = atheist." And, I'm supposed to believe they don't make other ridiculous assumptions in the process of "verifying" the parlor trick that is the Bible Code?

JMO

 

[dr. freeze]

I'd like to thank God for providing me with a losing gambling streak over the last few weeks.....He has given me the power to and the might to consistently put my money on losers and when I do make a good play, he allows me to suffer bad beats.

 

[Bluemound Freak]

LMFAO Good one freeze! Thank God I'm not the only one!

 

[dr. freeze]

FM -- never heard of the "Bible Code"......

from what I know of the Bible and of God, he would not make a code that only those capable of deciphering could understand.....God wants to make himself known to everyone whether you can read 50 languages or appreciate the green color of grass......all he asks is that we seek Him.....fullheartedly

people always make bad assumptions......and for those who do, it is their loss.....the term Christian has historically meant "follower of Christ".......i agree it is used in many different connotations today.....

some people have super intense relationships with God which deal with absolutely every single facet of their lives.......if you do not have that kind of a relationship with Him, then it is hard to comprehend this and it seems very foreign.......just realize that it is such.....

Bluemound -- not mad at anyone.....just trying to make sense out of some arguments that do not follow logic.......and i tried to do that with the argument of how God should not be allowed in schools, etc.......

I also think it is very arrogant to proclaim that God does not care who wins or loses........who are we to say that?.......I personally believe in my readings that God is a sovereign God in which He does care about every little detail and the intricacies which they involve.....unless someone knows the mind of God it is not worthwhile to make such a claim of what he does and does not concern himself with......God is not who we think he is ro want Him to be......He is who He is.....

 

[g-hawg]

This is really some heavy stuff guys. In my 49 years on this planet I have learned that there are two things that are very touchy subjects to discuss, that is religon and politics. So just lighten up fellows and have fun, life is too short not to.

 

[MadJack]

g-hawg

you sure hit the nail on the head with that post. this thread is about over. we've been here before and all it brings is hard feelings.

 

[yyz]

Y'all need to go back to my first post in this thread, and read the link! It'll at least make you laugh....

 

[BobbyBlueChip]

yyz isn't that a name of a song by Rush

R ulers
U under
S atan's
H ell

 

[Felonious Monk]

yyz

yyz

Sorry bud....yes, I did get a good laugh out of that. The Onion Rocks!

Here's another

"First off, I'd like to say 'great job' to Isaac and Pamela, who put up a heck of a fight and have nothing to be ashamed of," Banks said. "They were terrific opponents, and it's too bad somebody had to lose a life. But the Lord Jesus Christ was truly with me Saturday night. He guided my hand when I was able to make that big hit on Isaac, and I really felt His presence when I stepped up and made that great slashing cut to bring Pamela down from behind."

Added Banks: "Jesus really let me take this homicide to the next level. Thank you, Jesus!"

 

[Bluemound Freak]

Felonious, Lets talk about something else! Jack is right, all we are about to do is make a point that will hurt someones feelings and that ain't no good!

But that Article about the homicide really hurts our point of view

This is the last post on religion I will ever post! It makes me mad to talk about it and see so many people get there feathers ruffled!

So here is what I have to say:

If you are religous and that is what your into, that is fine! But please do not tell me every 5 minutes that this is how you feel! I myself am a religious person but I refuse to use that as an excuse for every time I do something right or something wrong. It is ironic as hell that this came up because I had a man and a woman break down on the interstate yesterday and came in to have me fix there car. Every 5 minutes this lady was telling me that it was God's will that they broke down here! God wanted us to break down here because he knew you would take care of us and get us home safely! I would have preffered her just keep her mouth shut because after the fifth or sixth time I heard this I wanted to say "lady are you kidding me? It is your husbands misfortune that the last idiot who worked on this car didn't give him what he paid for, It had more to do with the fact that nobody put enough fluid in your tranny to make it on a 500 mile trip! I'm sure God did not will that other feller that damn dumb just so you would break down at my shop!" The only reason you are stranded is because there are a bunch of hills to climb right before my town on the interstate and your vehicle has not been properly cared for, now that will be $800.00 mam!


God is God, he is not an excuse for everything that happens to you! Believe and live and be happy, just don't blame everything on him! Good or Bad!