US Supreme Court Strikes down federal gambling ban

kickserv

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I got the impression from Cuban and earlier interviews w/Silver that they invision peanuts,popcorn and halftime lines on the spot in the stands with the same zest and conversation that is had in Europe.


The "lines on the spot" live wagering has been shown in Aussy/NZ for decades for Rugby, and same for UK for soccer. Here in Canada you can see betting lines on some CFL broadcasts, in fact you had the Sportsbook logo right at midfield. I see the exact same thing happening in the USA within next couple years. If you think the NFL or NBA won't eventually accept MILLIONS of dollars from a Sportsbook to advertise with them you are wrong. It will take a while but eventually one of the leagues will do what happens all over the world and accept sponsorship. And oh yeah, look at all the professional sports teams around the world that are sponsored by Sportsbooks, eventually one team in the USA will get sponsored, just wait.

USA is behind the times with Sports Betting, the country be quick to catch up when the money starts rolling in.




Oh and for all of you bitching about how "the odds will suck", sure that might happen at first, but eventually one State will allow "the big boys" to step in and have them run things. The huge Sportsbooks of the world will arrive in one State and "make things right". The State will just tax the fuck out of them and you'll have point spread lines at -110 and parlays that pay out at true odds. The Canadian company Stars Group just bought Skybet for 4.7 billion US dollars, just think how much they'd pay a State to set up shop and run things. As I said eventually "one of the big boys" will step in and run things right. And when that happens other States will follow.

I can tell you from experience that back in the late 80's when Canada got on board it was a cluster fuck in most Provinces. And that was back when pretty much nobody had Internet access, I can just imagine all the fuck ups that will take place with States running things now. Now you have way more things that can go wrong, back in the 80's you didn't have to worry about somebody logging in from out of State or hacking your website, way more things to worry about now.

As mentioned on here before I still remember back in the late 80's when Ontario (biggest Province in Canada) lost massive amounts of money when SIX English Premier League soccer games were COMPLETED yet you could still bet on the games. The games were done early in the afternoon, it took until the next morning before the error was found out. You had people betting 6 team parlays at massive odds winning bets. Pretty easy to win 6 team parlays when the 6 games were done. That would have never happened if they "let the experts run things" but they thought they could do it all themselves, they were wrong. I see the same thing happening in the USA. Eventually it will work itself out, it will take time.

5 years from now you will have Pro Teams in USA sponsored by Sportsbooks and you'll have Sportsbooks advertising all over the place, just a matter of time. And what will happen when these Sportsbooks come into the US Market? Competition, that's what. If you have Stars Group, William Hill, Bet365, Ladbrokes, Betsson Group, Sportingbet, Betfair, Paddypower, BetVictor, etc, etc, all competing then I can tell you one thing, you won't be getting -120 juice on lines I can tell you that. Long way off from that right now, but eventually that competition will arrive on US soil and with that competition the consumer will be the winner.
 

kickserv

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and if you're one of the rare ones that actually win at this shit, you'll get a tax bill. Enjoy.


I am pretty sure US Citizens only pay tax on SPORTS winnings of 10,000 dollars or more. If the profit for a Sports Bet is $9,999 or under you'll never have to pay tax on it. And if you are some huge ass Sports Gambler who wagers big money all you have to do is spread out your betting slips and never have to pay tax. If you were betting 50 grand on a game at even money all you'd have to do is split your betting slips out to $9,999 on 5 separate betting slips and you'd never hit the 10 thousand dollar profit threshold.

Whatever the amount is (if it is not $10,000) you can easily avoid the tax man by splitting up your bet slips.


Oh and on another note who is making $10,000 profit regularly on sports wagers:shrug:


I do know you have to pay tax on........

$1,200 profit on Slots/Bingo
$1,500 profit on Keno.
$5,000 profit on Poker


pretty sure it is $10,000 profit on sports betting but could be wrong
 

kickserv

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This might very well be great for madjacksports. :popcorn2


As per my above post....just wait until one of those "big boy Sportsbooks" I spoke of come a calling, you'll be rolling in the :0071


It will be a long wait, but eventually they'll hit the US market.

#happyjack :spotting::0065
 

Batman

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Are you an attorney?? If not you should be one of those offshore books...
:shrug:
 

kickserv

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Are you an attorney??



No.........But I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night:SIB


<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/eHCTaUFXpP8" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>
 

airportis

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I wouldn't get too excited yet fellas.

Take NJ for instance- bets only to be taken at sportsbooks and the racetracks. That doesn't solve anything unless you live 5 min from either place.

Many of us are in states that still won't allow it.

Then let's look at the lines and what the spread will be. I can tell you it's not going to be cheap, the vig is going to be ridiculous. I don't buy the "competition" aspect because it's going to be controlled state to state. Why bet on a 10c or 20c line when I can get reduced juice online.

Then let's look at the fact that winnings are going to be taxable income. So for the very few winners out there (don't worry I'm not one in the long term)- you are not only going to have to beat the vig at close to 60% winners but then factor in paying taxes- good luck being profitable.

I just don't see it being that good. Offshores will still dominate.



NJ will spin up some online books I am sure. we already have online casinos/poker so I am sure they'll get online books up and running rather quickly.
 

saint

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Why would tax implications be any different than winning in Vegas? I don't claim those wins.

I don't know the % but almost all of the daily wagering in this country is taking place offshore, not in Vegas.

In NJ the taxes the casinos are going to have to pay for sports wagering will be something like 8% for bets placed at brick and mortar and 12% for online wagers. This is all guesswork but I don't see the books offering great lines with those taxes they will be on the hook for.

I think it will increase the number of people betting on sports. There are plenty of people out there who would do it if it were easy and legal. Right now, because of the hurdles- going to bitcoin in many cases, the legal grey area, it dissuades a lot of casual betters. If you make access easy and it's now legal a lot of people who are casual betters are going to join IMO. I think it's a lot like marijuana legalization. The hard core potheads always found a way to get pot and smoke. But there was a fringe who withheld due to the legality. Once it was legalized many people who withheld became casual smokers. I think this will be the same.
 

Terryray

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I am pretty sure US Citizens only pay tax on SPORTS winnings of 10,000 dollars or more. If the profit for a Sports Bet is $9,999 or under you'll never have to pay tax on it. And if you are some huge ass Sports Gambler who wagers big money all you have to do is spread out your betting slips and never have to pay tax. If you were betting 50 grand on a game at even money all you'd have to do is split your betting slips out to $9,999 on 5 separate betting slips and you'd never hit the 10 thousand dollar profit threshold.

Whatever the amount is (if it is not $10,000) you can easily avoid the tax man by splitting up your bet slips.


Oh and on another note who is making $10,000 profit regularly on sports wagers:shrug:


I do know you have to pay tax on........

$1,200 profit on Slots/Bingo
$1,500 profit on Keno.
$5,000 profit on Poker


pretty sure it is $10,000 profit on sports betting but could be wrong

Yes, you are wrong. And you should know it! ... In the past you've participated in two threads concerning this subject, so you did read (and even post once) the correct answer. Your poor memory might explain a lot of things...

US Citizens must pay tax on any gambling winnings. Even the $1 you just won on a scratch ticket. You list it as "other income" on your yearly tax form. That's for casual gamblers. Professional gamblers must file as self-employed and pay a hefty SS tax, in addition to regular income tax, and do so quarterly and in advance.

Mandatory tax withholding of gambling winnings for US citizen, where they issue you a form W-2G, only happens in sports book on the very rare bet that hit odds of 300-1 or more, and had a payout of $600 or more. That would be an unusual futures or parlay win. Much more common in the race book side (for which this rule was really formulated).

Thus, you can bet $100K SU on The Steelers -7 and win, getting $190K back - there will be zero tax withholding. But you (US Citizen) are supposed to pay tax on the win.

Now, that $10,000 threshold is any cash the casino hands you, or you hand to them. The casino must track such transactions and report it to the Treasury Dept for the purposes of fighting money laundering, it does not have any tax implications. Splitting it up by a series of $9,999 transactions, in an effort to fly unnoticed under the threshold, is a federal crime called "Structuring" and the feds have prosecuted and sent to jail even ex-congressmen for this felony. Also, the casino must report to Treasury "suspicious activity" in cash transactions which has an informal threshold of $4500 or so...

Thus, that $100K Steelers bet you made would have generated 2 currency transactions reports by the casino (you never see this paperwork done if they have your info from players card or such) and, if you give the cash to them to put in the main casino safe, a third and fourth currency transactions reports generated after you get your cash back out of the safe. But zero tax withholding by the casino.
 

kickserv

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Yes, you are wrong. And you should know it!


Actually I finally got the answer on that, and turns out that I am NOT WRONG (well sort of, I guess I am a bit wrong, but mostly right) These are the numbers....

$1,200 profit on Slots/Bingo
$1,500 profit on Keno.
$5,000 profit on Poker
$10,000 profit on Sports
$10,000 profit on Casino chips


Now you say ALL US CITIZENS MUST PAY TAX ON GAMBLING WINNINGS even if it is one dollar. Ok that is true.

What I was speaking of is where the casino/racetrack/whatever "hands you the form" shall we say. Or where they take the tax out of your winnings. For example if you win the World Series of Poker and you are American you don't get all the money they take the tax out right on the spot. Or like on the Price is Right when you win a car and you have to pay the tax on the car before you can receive that vehicle.

There is a reason why Wheel of Fortune slot machines in Nevada have the number $1,195 on the wheel. Next time you are in Nevada look at the $1,195 slot on that machine, there is a reason why it is not $1,200.

Or to put it another way, at a Sportsbook if your bet slip never reaches above 10 grand in profit nobody gives a fuck. Now yes you are correct when you use your "win one dollar on a scratch ticket" example you are right, but my point is giving the number where the "eye in the sky" reports it to the IRS. I should have been more clear and stated that my numbers were "when the IRS gets involved" or something to that extent. That is where I was wrong, your example of 1 dollar is accurate.

So.......we are both correct with what we said:lol:


Oh and Jack is fucked with all his Royal Flushes:scared
 

kickserv

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Mandatory tax withholding of gambling winnings for US citizen, where they issue you a form W-2G, only happens in sports book on the very rare bet that hit odds of 300-1 or more, and had a payout of $600 or more. That would be an unusual futures or parlay win. Much more common in the race book side (for which this rule was really formulated).


This is accurate for horse wagering but not for Sportsbooks. Odds mean nothing for Sports Wagers, it is strictly on the profit from the wager. I asked this exact question to an expert in the field and this is what they told me. I finally wanted to get the answer on the taxes for Sports Wagering and this is the information I was told.

But again I go back to the point you made about the "1 dollar scratch ticket" and you are correct, so all these numbers mean shit because no matter what it should be reported to the IRS.

So in a court of law, you are 100 percent right and I lose the case:)




Oh and one more thing, it is dumb as fuck that you have to pay tax on winnings, just have it like here in Canada where there is no tax on winnings on anything, you win 10 million on the lottery, you get 10 million. Why tax winnings, don't you tax shit enough in the first place? sheesh:facepalm:
 

Terryray

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Actually I finally got the answer on that, and turns out that I am NOT WRONG (well sort of, I guess I am a bit wrong, but mostly right) These are the numbers....

$1,200 profit on Slots/Bingo
$1,500 profit on Keno.
$5,000 profit on Poker


This is true (that taxes will be automatically withheld from your payout and IRS will be notified), we covered this years ago in those old threads.


$10,000 profit on Sports
$10,000 profit on Casino chips

Taxes are not withheld and IRS is not notified with these $10,000 transactions.

However, the Treasury Dept is supposed to be informed of these $10,000 (profit or not) transactions (by the casino, or bank or car dealer, etc) not for tax purposes - the IRS is not informed - but for efforts in the fight against money laundering. If the reporting agency already has your personal information, they will fill the form out and you will be completely unaware of it. Happens hundreds of times a day in Las Vegas.

Here is a screen shot of the relevant definition in US tax code 26 CFR 31.3402(q) (link here, warning pdf) of what constitutes withholding to certain gambling winnings....Sports bets, like pull tabs or raffles, etc, would only qualify if it fell under the "300x" rule.


lQbitYj.jpg
 

kickserv

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However, the Treasury Dept is supposed to be informed of these $10,000 (profit or not) transactions (by the casino, or bank or car dealer, etc) not for tax purposes - the IRS is not informed - but for efforts in the fight against money laundering. If the reporting agency already has your personal information, they will fill the form out and you will be completely unaware of it.

Good info Terrray:0008

Well that sucks, there is a way for the casino to not have your info, but a bank or car dealership will most likely have all your info.:scared
 

jas4bama

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Credit cards have been involved here (Canada) for Sports Betting forever, same with UK, Aussy and many other countries. The credit card companies make millions of dollars, why would they stop it in the USA if it is legal?

I just think the fraudulent part along with the lawsuits of ' this credit card company gave me the credit and I became a gambling addict.' I may be wrong, hope i am, but it is going to be interesting.Remember,this is the good ole USA.
 

kickserv

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I just think the fraudulent part along with the lawsuits of ' this credit card company gave me the credit and I became a gambling addict.' I may be wrong, hope i am, but it is going to be interesting.Remember,this is the good ole USA.


Valid point, but you can receive cash advances at most Nevada casinos using credit cards so is this any different:shrug:
 
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